Taxis & Ridesharing - articles, discussion ...

[STB]

Following this conversation, it's interesting to see the different views.

Personally I love Uber, I use it when I need it and haven't used a taxi in ages, and I don't feel any guilt or displeasure at doing that to the taxi industry, mostly from a service provision, ie: you can see on your phone how far your Uber is, you can estimate the fare prior to departing, the Uber drivers so far for the most part seem to be locals looking for a bit of extra cash on the side, meaning that they actually know the local area a lot better (there have been a couple of exceptions but for the most part it's been far better than taxis in that regard).

I think it's more of a case that the taxi industry really needs to shape up and compete with Uber (and any other ridesharing or taxi company that comes along), if they can provide a service that is equal or better than what a traditional taxi can do, then I'm sure that people will respect that and Uber would have competition on their hands.

In regards to the surge pricing, sorry, but one needs to take personal responsibility for that, the Uber app could be a little more clearer on the estimated price during price surging, but it's quite easy to work out approximately how much the fare will be during price surging, just do a quick sum in your head (or on a calculator), or just do the sensible thing and wait for the surging to end or find another means of transport, and by all means, Uber is NOT a monopoly, with buses, traditional taxis, trains, etc. 

The surge pricing by the way is really just Economics 101 that you learn in high school, supply and demand, along with a dash of psychology to encourage people who are driving for Uber to get out there and drive.  If people can't work out that simple economics and some basic calculations, then perhaps they should head back to school to learn that.

I'm not sure if I agree with Lapdog on that video about the impact of taxing corporations, corporations will obviously do anything to avoid paying tax, but that doesn't mean that Governments shouldn't try and not tax corporations (along with other forms of taxes) to the best of their ability to pay for essential services.

[hU0N]

It's interesting you bring up the airport flyer. That also is a private company offering taxi like services for a low headline rate ($29 to Ipswich, $45 to Toowoomba), but with all kinds of surcharges to sting you with. After hours service +10%, Weekend service +15%, Door to door pick-up +50% to +600% (depending on where you live), on demand unscheduled service +500% or more.

I'm not saying that the airport flyer is bad, or an unconscionable business model, or should be scrapped. But it is certainly another example of a private "taxi" service that makes its money by advertising a fare way below the taxi rate then upselling "premium services" once your on the hook to make a profit. And they get away with it by calling themselves a limousine service.

While there are obvious differences, the two business models are perilously close in the two features that most people talk about:

1. They both offer "taxi" services and skirt the law by shoehorning themselves awkwardly into another category that is legal. (Carpool in the case of UBER, limousine in the case of the flyer).

2. They both offer cheaper fares than licensed taxis, but make most of their profit by charging fare premiums for optional premium services. (As above for the flyer, while UBER gives you the option of paying a surge price for immediate travel during peak demand times. Note, the surge price IS truly optional in that you don't have to accept it, during a surge the UBER app also gives you the option to book a regular priced ride as soon as prices return to normal).

The only real difference I can see is that the flyer sensibly keeps its head down so as not to attract the attention of the taxi industry smear machine.

[#Metro]

I'm not sure if I agree with Lapdog on that video about the impact of taxing corporations, corporations will obviously do anything to avoid paying tax, but that doesn't mean that Governments shouldn't try and not tax corporations (along with other forms of taxes) to the best of their ability to pay for essential services

Corporations have always avoided tax, in the sense that they have never borne the burden of taxation.

You are welcome to e-mail any economist and ask them if corporations bear the burden of taxation. The answer will come back as no. Corporations cannot bear the burden of tax - they pass it on to their investors (lower rate of return, devalued share holdings), to their customers (higher prices) and to their workers (as lower wage offerings).

For example -  GST - who is paying that? Not the company, it's you: whatever you buy is now 10% more expensive. It's like a personal income tax really. Payroll tax is the same - that falls on workers as lower wages. Super contribution - again, lower wages.

A corporation is a legal fiction. As such, they collect taxes, but that is ultimately paid by people, not the corporation itself.

[Gazza]

I don't really have a problem with surge pricing.... On NYE you can't get a taxi due to shortages, so you just get "queing"... No different to people queing for bread in eastern bloc countries back in the day.

So the other option is to raise prices to reduce demand and increase supply.

That said, I think the surge pricing algorithm is a bit whack if its spitting out multipliers of 7x....I can't think of any other product or service that becomes 7x in price during high demand

[#Metro]

Three minute arrival. Most fares probably didn't get struck with the 9x etc. Those are probably the absolute exception "peak of the peak".

Taxis don't have surge pricing (maybe higher fares generally at certain times of the week). But you could say they have surge waiting. Getting the taxi takes 5x or so longer than normal... 

Uber said 90 per cent of fares between 5pm on New Year's Eve and 5am on New Year's Day in Australia were multiplied by three or less.

Surge pricing seems to have had the desired effect of attracting more Uber drivers to areas of high demand, with the average driver arriving in three minutes.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/uber-says-most-new-years-eve-passengers-not-hit-with-massive-surge-pricing-20160102-gly2v9.html

[James]

James & LD, have you ever been involved in the purchase or sale of a business? The "licence" is a term used to describe the operation of a single taxi business. Yes McDonalds aren't capped directly, but the market determines how many of them exist. $500,000 is what the market will pay for a taxi business.

Well in Qld, the number of taxi licenses is capped. The "market" will always determine the price, but if supply is restricted, the price will become falsely inflated. You also cannot say that paying $500,000 for a taxi license is a necessary safety measures.

The number of McDonalds is not capped. You can open a McDonalds on every street corner if you wanted.

As I said before, if I started up a new rail business and just started driving wherever I liked on the QR/Aurizon network, I'd be up on charges. Why are these people exempt from similar action.

You'd be up on charges because the QR/Aurizon network is QR/Aurizon property, and access is restricted by the companies/state govt. Access to the road network is not restricted - you can walk along the road whenever you damn like (NB: you could end up on charges of impeding traffic flow depending on the road, but it is not trespassing). Also, most people tend to own cars. Very few people own rail vehicles.

Coming  in to BNE this morning on the Airport Flyer service, was interesting to note that a major topic for conversation was uber.  The NYE surge pricing news items have been a PR disaster for uber, not surprising really.  Passengers were of the view that uber was just an attempt to displace and make money.  Hasn't taken long for punters to start to wise up.  Just an observation ...

If this is such a big issue, people will leave Uber in their droves and the service will leave Brisbane. Problem solved! The fact people keep using Uber even after 'horror stories' like this is a sign that Uber is on to a good thing.

[achiruel]

The number of McDonalds is not capped. You can open a McDonalds on every street corner if you wanted.

Rubbish. There are town planning/zoning regulations, environmental regulations and probably others I'm not familiar with that would prevent this from happening.

[Gazza]

Plus I think franchisees get a certain degree of 'turf' where McDonalds won't develop another store....Maccas own the real estate and franchisees pay rent.

On surge pricing, I get that the average arrival time was 3 mins and most people didn't pay the 7x figure, but still, why not accept a slightly longer wait time (still short eg 10 mins) but a lower surge, rather than an all or nothing type approach.


Maybe uber or other apps need  to be  smarter and let people pay more/less for priority pick up?

[techblitz]

Uber uses people to generate money for them, in a rather suspect business, financial and legal framework.  The Government has allowed them to get away with it, undercutting taxi fares to establish a base and then they go rippo, let's shaft them eg. surge by 8 times etc.

the real party starts when UBER decides to mess around with driver rates...already happening in a lot of american cities where base driver rates have been literally halved....hence earnings of drivers have been halved......drivers will eventually clue on and exit the sytem entirely once they realise that they are working for peanuts....i hope uber has a "driver recycle" contigency plan in place
Its a cunning tactic by uber......drop the fares to undercut competition to gain market leverage(cheaper fares for riders).......make drivers more desperate(thanks to less income) by enticing them to work during peak periods to make up the lost income from thier base rate drops....

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> A new report explores the benefits of Uber

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Uber ups the ante and drops fares

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> GoCatch to take on Uber, taxi industry in Australia

[verbatim9]

This is bizarre! Woolies offering free rides with Uber after spending 30 bucks on Gillette products. But Uber status/legality in Qld still in limbo?

[ozbob]

A government that is unable to govern.

[verbatim9]

Yeah wierd delay tactics of the government of the day that doesn't make sense.

[aldonius]

A government that is unable to govern.

Imagine if we had 4 year fixed terms already!

(Having said that, we are literally one byelection away from a minority LNP government with KAP support).

Speaking of KAP and Uber, I saw a taxi the other day with KAP-supportive signage. Not in traditional ad spots either, suggesting it's coming from the driver (with tacit company support, assuming they care).

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Review says no to Katter's Australian Party push for Uber demerit points

[verbatim9]

Optus and Uber partner up to bring in free WiFi for the ride ----> http://mumbrella.com.au/optus-and-uber-announce-exclusive-partnership-356074

[ozbob]

Sunshine Coast Daily --> Drivers to do a U-turn on Uber over fare price fallout

[techblitz]

^ This was predicted...drivers are at the mercy of uber...and fewer drivers = higher fares.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/uber-cant-live-up-to-the-expectations-it-set-20160329-gntoxs.html

another interesting article...

[#Metro]

What did drivers do before Uber?

If drivers feel that they aren't getting a good deal - they leave or have another job that pays them more.
This shrinks the pool, which puts pressure on the fares to go up.
If customers think that they aren't getting a good deal, they leave which puts pressure on the fares to go down.

So it actually is regulated in a sense. Company cannot exist without willing staff or customers.

Surge pricing is essentially the other face of Penalty Rates being passed on during odd times such as Friday or Sat nights.

Unemployment benefits are low at $37.68 per day.
If you spend that 7.5 hours per day looking for work, that's like $5 or so per hour. So in many cases, any work is better than none.
https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/payment-rates-newstart-allowance

There are also other groups such as students or people who have left the workforce that use it to supplement their income rather than depend on it.

[techblitz]

If drivers feel that they aren't getting a good deal - they leave or have another job that pays them more.

and leave they will......in the end there is only so many drivers that uber can recycle.....while they wont have any issues finding drivers in surge they will soon struggle to find drivers for "out of surge". Market forces will prevail here.......more competing apps coming onto the market means UBER will potentially lose drivers to the competition.....depends on who is more attractive to drive for....

Less drivers = higher fares
More drivers = lower fares

Simple really....

[ozbob]

Twitter

Nine News Brisbane ‏@9NewsBrisbane 29m

Uber customers have accounts hacked, and credit card details stolen. @NatJohnWallace #9News

Uber customers have accounts hacked, and credit card details stolen. @NatJohnWallace #9News https://t.co/Z1AihhIhiR

— Nine News Brisbane (@9NewsBrisbane) March 31, 2016

[ozbob]

Melbourne Age --> Uber slashes prices in Melbourne again, drivers threaten strike action

[#Metro]

In a competitive market, economic profits are driven towards zero.

That is, prices approach production costs (cost to make/supply/whatever).

As profits approach zero, this acts as a brake, stopping further entry into the industry by penalty of loss.

This controversy looks a lot like free advertising. The newspaper even did a map with the prices on it showing how much cheaper things would be. It would be difficult to get that kind of space unless one paid for a full page ad.

[James]

Melbourne Age --> Uber slashes prices in Melbourne again, drivers threaten strike action

Well here you go. Uber cuts costs, lowers wages, gets an unhappy work force and in turn, either:
a) Loses business, or
b) Surge pricing comes into constant effect, rising wages anyway.
Admittedly due to how surge pricing works, this will likely create bizarre patterns of drivers logging on and off spontaneously in an attempt to produce a surge, but it'll happen.

I do think Uber is taking these fare cuts a bit too far though. Much like a low-cost airline though, it needs to be careful that it is not forcing drivers to cut corners to make ends meet. A few crashes where Uber and its practices are clearly at fault will sink the company in certain regions (much like the airline ValuJet went broke in America after a series of accidents).

In a competitive market, economic profits are driven towards zero.

Economic profits, not accounting profits. Economic profits also account for opportunity cost and so forth. Also, the assumption of 'perfectly competitive market' rarely holds in real life because people rarely act rationally.

[#Metro]

Economic profits, not accounting profits.

Yes, that's exactly what I wrote. I haven't assumed perfect anything.

[verbatim9]

Uber X now legal from July 1 in SA ----> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-12/taxi-compensation-package-revealed-as-uberx-enters-sa-market/7319178

[#Metro]

Good to hear SA is allowing more startups.

The remainder will surely follow now.

[verbatim9]

Good to hear SA is allowing more startups.

The remainder will surely follow now.

Qld Gov surely dragging their feet on reform. The Qld review process seems twice as long as other states implementing Harper Review reforms.

[SurfRail]

It's a double whammy.  Not only is the present government being very, very risk averse, but the public service has lost a lot of the institutional competence needed to do things properly.

I strongly expect for instance that if Stage 1 of GCLR was being procured today, the final product would be very suckful.

[ozbob]

Melbourne Age --> Disability activist complains to Human Rights Commission after Uber drivers refuse to take guide dog

[verbatim9]

Catch a cab if you require disabilty access not all vehicles suited for dogs and disabilities

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Uber takes 'outrageous liberty' with drivers

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Uber ban in Katter party sights

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Queensland set to increase fines for Uber drivers

[ozbob]

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2016/4/20/parliament-passes-legislation-to-enhance-compliance-measures-for-taxi-industry

Media Statements
Minister for Transport and the Commonwealth Games
The Honourable Stirling Hinchliffe
Wednesday, April 20, 2016

Parliament passes legislation to enhance compliance measures for taxi industry

The Queensland Parliament tonight passed new legislation to boost compliance measures and enhance the power of inspectors to enforce current regulation in the taxi industry.

Transport Minister Stirling Hinchliffe said the laws strengthened provisions in Queensland's transport legislation around the operation of an unlicensed taxi service.

"In response to the Private Member's Bill from the Katter Australia Party, the Parliament voted to strengthen provisions in our current legislation to ensure transport inspectors have the powers they need to enforce current regulation," Mr Hinchliffe said.

"While the Queensland Government welcomes innovation in transport, passenger safety will always remain our number one priority and our transport inspectors must have the appropriate tools to ensure they can uphold current and any future regulations."

The new legislation passed by the Parliament:

    Clarifies the offence of providing a taxi service without a taxi;
    Increases the maximum penalty for providing an unlicensed taxi service from $18,848 (160 penalty units) to $23,560 (200 penalty units);
    Increases the infringement notice fine from $1,413 (12 penalty units) to $2,356 (20 penalty units);
    Simplifies the elements of the offence and provides for evidentiary aids to enable the Department of Transport and Main Roads to prove evidence of matters in court that are generally not disputed; and
    Will enable a Transport Inspector to request a person to produce their driver licence if they reasonably suspect that a person is committing or has committed an offence under Transport Operations (Passenger Transport) Act 1994 relating to the operation of a vehicle.

Mr Hinchliffe said the Department of Transport and Main Roads has dedicated more than 18,000 hours to compliance activity and issued a total of 1,536 penalty infringement notices since July 2014, but since August 2015 transport inspectors have been unable to undertake covert enforcement activities.

"The providers of unlicenced taxi services have developed sophisticated ways of evading enforcement efforts and the changes to state legislation passed through the Parliament improves our capacity to ensure the time and resources dedicated to upholding transport laws in our state are not wasted," he said.

Mr Hinchliffe said changes to legislation will take effect at assent and would be considered as part of the Opportunities for Personalised Transport Review being undertaken by an Independent Taskforce on behalf of the Government.

"The Independent Review into taxi services and personalised transport will give Queensland a framework for addressing the impact of the digital economy on all transport services," Mr Hinchliffe said.

"By taking our time and not rushing to a response, Queensland will have the advantage of taking a long-term view of how our personalised transport system will adapt to changes in technology and deliver the best service to Queenslanders.

"I have spoken with the Chair of the Independent Taskforce and we agree that these changes to the legislation don't affect the ability of the Review to deliver the best outcome for the people of Queensland."

The Transport Legislation (Taxi Services) Bill 2015 passed by the Queensland Parliament amends the Transport Operations (Passenger Transport) Act 1994 (TOPTA), Transport Operations (Passenger Transport) Regulation 2005 and State Penalties Enforcement Regulation 2014.

[techblitz]

Catch a cab if you require disabilty access not all vehicles suited for dogs and disabilities

WTF? Why shouldnt impaired persons have the same access to cheaper ridesharing fares than normal bodied people? Ever heard of the term "level playing field"?? Obviously not...

Thankfully UBER is moving forward on this very big issue as current maxi-taxi owners further deprioritise wheelchair bound customers due to falling revenue streams and those ridiculous licence costs...

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/uber-trials-new-brisbane-service-for-passengers-with-wheelchairs-20151027-gkk67d.html

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Fall-out continues from Queensland's Uber crackdown

We really have some problems in Queensland hey?   Morons  ...

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Uber in Queensland: Your rights in illegal ride-share

​Did you know Uber is still illegal in Queensland? The popular paid ride-sharing service isn't actually allowed to operate here and is basically an unregulated service requiring few initial, and even less ongoing, driver and vehicle checks.

So, does riding in an Uber vehicle putting you unnecessarily at risk? And how can you protect yourself?

Uber doesn't impose regular servicing or inspection of vehicles. An Uber vehicle can be up to nine years old. Unlike taxis, which have to undergo inspection every four to six months, an Uber may never be inspected in Queensland – provided it is always registered and has not been sold. Uber relies on passengers rating a driver from one to five stars and if their average service levels slip too low they are booted off the app. The problem is something needs to go wrong before it gets this bad and that's often too late.

If you are an Uber passenger and involved in an accident where you suffer an injury, it is crucial to:

    Seek medical attention.
    Report the accident to the police as soon as possible. Don't rely on a driver saying they'll report it on your behalf. It is in fact an offence not to report it.
    Make a note of the driver's details (including licence number) and registration of the car.
    Obtain the contact details of any witnesses to the accident.
    Take photographs of any damage to the Uber vehicle.
    Report the accident in writing to Uber as early as possible so they have the opportunity to investigate.
    Explore any legal rights you might have by contacting a lawyer as soon as possible, as strict time frames apply.

Uber requires its drivers to submit a certificate of currency for CTP insurance. This is payable upon registration of any vehicle. The Department of Transport and Main Roads also allows a free CTP insurance check for any registration number.

It is recommended that before getting into an Uber vehicle you utilise this search to ensure you're covered in the event of an accident.

If you've left something in an Uber you should contact the driver via the app. Both your and their number is kept private when this occurs. If the driver doesn't answer, leave a voicemail and if you don't hear back within 24 hours, contact Uber directly. Uber has no obligation to recover lost items so chances are, if you can't contact the driver yourself, the item is gone for good.

In fact, on an Uber forum one driver comments that if an item is left in their car they throw it out or even keep it as they "expect the rider to have insurance as they are grown, responsible adults".

Uber's recent decision to drop fare rates and the proposed increase in driver fees that will come into force this weekend prompted one driver to tell Fairfax Media he's going to have to work longer hours to earn what he does now.

Driver fatigue is another significant factor in everyday motor vehicle accidents. The hours an Uber driver spends behind the wheel are also not monitored, creating a further risk for users.

Lots to think about before you "tap and ride".