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Author Topic: New Services Tally - 2010  (Read 28339 times)

Offline stephenk

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #120 on: June 25, 2010, 07:05:23 AM »
It depends, how do they do the manual counts? Do they just count people boarding/alighting at the central 4 stations, or do they monitor all of them?

As for frequency upgrades on the lines, IMO a 20min frequency on the Tennyson line would be of use. Think about the number of people who currently travel between areas on or near the Ipswich and Beenleigh lines. Why should the Tennyson line be excluded from having a 20 minute frequency? I will admit it would be harder to timetable, perhaps it would be simpler to operate it as say a 3 car shuttle along the Tennyson line?

The manual count has counters in all carriages, and counts people getting on/off at every stop. As I predicted many months ago, it has shown that overall patronage has declined, which shows gross mismanagement of public transport.

Given the Tennyson Line has a patronage of approx 10 people, it realistically should be last on the list for priority in getting better peak and off-peak services. There are far far bigger fish to fry!
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Offline #Metro

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #121 on: June 25, 2010, 07:41:11 AM »
Quote
The manual count has counters in all carriages, and counts people getting on/off at every stop. As I predicted many months ago, it has shown that overall patronage has declined, which shows gross mismanagement of public transport.

Given the Tennyson Line has a patronage of approx 10 people, it realistically should be last on the list for priority in getting better peak and off-peak services. There are far far bigger fish to fry!

I 100% agree with Stephenk.
Tennyson can be BUZzed or buses can be put on.
Route 104 is a shocker and needs urgent alteration at is mostly a bulk air parcel service at the moment. Route 105 and 108 need a clean up and frequency boost.
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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #122 on: June 25, 2010, 08:29:49 AM »
Also, there is no suitable turn around facility at the Beenleigh line end.  A Tennyson line service only makes sense if it is increasing the frequency Yeerongpilly-city.  There are few places on the Beenleigh line where trains can be turned around.

Offline Derwan

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #123 on: June 25, 2010, 12:14:53 PM »
As for frequency upgrades on the lines, IMO a 20min frequency on the Tennyson line would be of use.

Do you mean in peak?

We don't even have a 20min peak frequency on all the normal lines!
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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #124 on: June 25, 2010, 12:39:42 PM »
A decent service on the Great Circle bus route would abolish the need for the 108 and any sort of Tennyson service.  Also, the 105s could be truncated to become 107s.  I guess there's then a case for the Gold Coast trains to serve Banoon and Altandi for the bus connections.  Not sure why it should serve Coopers Plains.

Offline #Metro

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #125 on: June 25, 2010, 12:51:18 PM »
Not really sure how people living in Tennyson are supposed to catch the GCL? Are you proposing a re-route through Tennyson?
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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #126 on: June 25, 2010, 01:57:32 PM »
Not really sure how people living in Tennyson are supposed to catch the GCL? Are you proposing a re-route through Tennyson?
To be honest, I wasn't thinking too much about them.  I suppose if the 105/107/108 is there only service then I guess leaving that service there is probably OK.  I don't know that it needs to go around to Indro though, which is what I was thinking.  I also don't know that the few people that would use the service in Tennyson make it worth having the 108 faster bus for them.  They can reasonably easily change at Yeerongpilly in peak.

Offline stephenk

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #127 on: June 25, 2010, 08:25:38 PM »
Back on topic, less than 6 days for Translink to introduce these 70,000 seats on trains. Oh dear!
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Offline mufreight

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #128 on: June 26, 2010, 02:40:35 AM »
Me thinks that there is more chance of Anna Blight becoming the Queen than there is of us seeing those 70,000 seats on rail.

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #129 on: June 29, 2010, 05:10:11 PM »
I'm not sure about anyone else's calculator, but by mine, 140 071 + 13 000 + 48 800 = 201 871 = bus target met before the end of July.

Also good is it seems like they have been noticing how angry it makes people generally when they are kept out of the loop on these service changes.  Still much room for improvement.

Offline ozbob

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #130 on: June 29, 2010, 05:39:12 PM »
Yes, bus is over the line, and there might be more yet, who knows.  To be frank, rail is not going to make it I think (the 83,000) I think we have had around 20,000 so far.  The major changes will occur following completion of the Corinda to Darra track amplification, completion of signalling, and of course Richlands opening.  There is scope for all 3 car services to go to 6 on the main network, and some additional services to plug gaps now though. 

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Offline stephenk

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #131 on: June 29, 2010, 07:33:49 PM »
Yes, bus is over the line, and there might be more yet, who knows.  To be frank, rail is not going to make it I think (the 83,000) I think we have had around 20,000 so far.  The major changes will occur following completion of the Corinda to Darra track amplification, completion of signalling, and of course Richlands opening.  There is scope for all 3 car services to go to 6 on the main network, and some additional services to plug gaps now though. 

 :hc

I see that TransLink have recently mentioned that some 3-car services have been changed to 6-car, but have omitted to release the number of services that this applies to. Maybe they have realised that we can count!
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Offline #Metro

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #132 on: June 29, 2010, 10:28:00 PM »
Easy to find out, capacity of train is about 400-500 ish?
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Offline david

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #133 on: July 01, 2010, 10:14:21 AM »
We have finally reached our target date - 1st July 2010. Let's see if the government managed to keep their promises...

June Services Tally

Bus:

New seats per week: 13 000
Total new weekly seats (to end June): 153 071 out of 201 000 promised seats
% of seats promised so far: 76.2%

Ferry:
New seats per week: 0
Total new weekly seats (to end June): 3 240 out of 17 000 promised seats
% of seats promised so far: 19%

Train:
New seats per week: 0
Total new weekly seats (to end June): 7 210 out of 83 400 promised seats
% of seats promised so far: 5.5%


Almost got there for new bus seats, nowhere near for new train or ferry seats. Fairly disappointing. I reckon we give the government/Translink one more month to give us these new seats.

The early signs are already promising...
Quote
Ms Nolan said South-east Queensland's two busiest train lines will receive a 9000 seat boost next month with the introduction of four new peak services.

New peak services on the Caboolture line will roll out with new services on the Ipswich line to follow.
and...
Quote
The Bligh Government will spend $5 million adding seats and new services to Brisbane's busiest bus routes next month.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said the new bus package would add an extra 48,800 bus seats each week, add new buses to the existing fleet and provide more jobs for bus drivers.

Offline david

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #134 on: July 02, 2010, 10:22:19 AM »
This is certainly an interesting development...

From Translink Media http://www.translink.com.au/mediarelease.php?id=159

301,000 seat target reached with a Southern Brisbane service boost

Quote
The Queensland Government has added 301,000 additional seats per week to South East Queensland's transport network.

Minister Rachel Nolan announced the milestone has been reached as promised with a new $1.2 million bus package for Park Ridge.

"A new service will be introduced - P546 - a pre-paid only route delivered by Park Ridge Transit, when services return to peak demand following the school and university holidays," Ms Nolan said.

"Seven new low-floor air-conditioned buses will operate 14 services each weekday - seven inbound in the morning peak and seven outbound in the afternoon peak - with capacity for more than 3,600 customers a week."

Minister Nolan announced that the new bus package would be put in place to service the new Park Ridge and upgraded Greenbank RSL park 'n' rides when they open to customers on July 26.

"The services will be express services to and from the city using the South East Busway, servicing both the Greenbank RSL and Park Ridge park 'n' ride facilities," Ms Nolan said.

"The P546 will also stop at Griffith University and Buranda busway stations, allowing Griffith University and University of Queensland students and staff a faster trip to campus.

"The existing route 540 (Beaudesert to City) will also service both park 'n' rides, providing off-peak services to customers.

"Both the new $4 million carpark facility near Mount Lindesay Highway, Park Ridge and the upgraded $1.4 million carpark facility at the Greenbank RSL at Corporate Place, Hillcrest will be serviced by these two routes from Monday July 26.

"These new services are the final component of our commitment to add 301,000 new seats a week to the TransLink network," Ms Nolan said.

"That's seated capacity for 15 million additional public transport trips across next financial year."

The breakdown consists of:

•30,000 additional weekly seats on the Gold Coast, Cleveland, Ipswich, Doomben and Rosewood lines
•215,000 weekly bus seats across Brisbane
•40,000 weekly bus seats across the Gold Coast
•10,000 additional seats for school services and buses in the Logan/Park Ridge area
•8000 additional seats on Brisbane's CityCat services.

For more details about public transport, please visit www.translink.com.au or phone 13 12 30, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Offline ozbob

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #135 on: July 02, 2010, 10:52:41 AM »
I am going to request a detailed break up for these figures.  Bus over the line, rail and ferry not.  Extra seats on bus to make the 300,000.

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Offline david

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #136 on: July 02, 2010, 10:57:57 AM »
More new services announced...

Gold Coast go card and service boost http://www.translink.com.au/mediarelease.php?id=154
Quote
"TransLink have also added almost 14,000 new weekend seats to Gold Coast trains with all three-car carriages boosted to six carriages.


Southern Logan go card and service boost http://www.translink.com.au/mediarelease.php?id=158
Quote
Transport Minister Rachel Nolan and Member for Logan John Mickel today announced that a new $1.2 million bus package would be put in place to service the new Park Ridge and upgraded Greenbank RSL park ‘n' rides when they open to customers on July 26.

"A new service will be introduced – P546 – a pre-paid only route delivered by Park Ridge Transit, when services return to peak demand following the school and university holidays," Ms Nolan said.

"Seven new low-floor air-conditioned buses will operate 14 services each weekday – seven inbound in the morning peak and seven outbound in the afternoon peak – with capacity for more than 3600 customers a week.


$5m Brisbane bus package - more jobs, more seats, more buses
http://www.translink.com.au/mediarelease.php?id=155
Quote
The Bligh Government will spend $5 million adding seats and new services to Brisbane's busiest bus routes next month (July 26).

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said the new bus package would add an extra 48,800 bus seats each week, add new buses to the existing fleet and provide more jobs for bus drivers.

Offline Derwan

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #137 on: July 02, 2010, 11:02:23 AM »
"Yep - just say that we reached the target.  No one would be counting."
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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #138 on: July 02, 2010, 11:23:50 AM »
Quote
"TransLink have also added almost 14,000 new weekend seats to Gold Coast trains with all three-car carriages boosted to six carriages.
Cheaters!  These seats should not count.  And what about the peak trains which have 3 cars?

I can remember thinking that rail would fall short and be supplemented by bus, and I wish I'd posted that.

Oh, and you guys laughed when I said that the new seats may well be added during July and they would count that as target met, but I was right.

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #139 on: July 02, 2010, 11:41:36 AM »
Well obviously there wasn't going to be 15 min rail services running by the time they wanted to reach that target.

Upgrades from 3 cars to 6 cars are rightly extra seats (an entire new train hooked onto the back/front) regardless of how you look at it.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #140 on: July 02, 2010, 11:47:25 AM »
I agree that 3-car to 6-car services do count as extra seats, however it does beg the question, are these weekend upgrades on the GC line actually needed due to high use, or are they being upgraded simply so Translink can say they are meeting this target?
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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #141 on: July 02, 2010, 12:02:20 PM »
I don't know about other services except one on the Cleveland line that had the upgrade and that train used to be packed by the time it reached Wynnum North when it was a 3 car.  The extra 3 cars (6 car) would ease the squeeze on this particular service.  Going by that media release a while back.

The Gold Coast services DEFINATELY needs the six cars running.  I know that from personal experience.  I've seen it standing room only on an outbound Saturday morning service.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2010, 12:04:06 PM by STB »

Offline #Metro

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #142 on: July 02, 2010, 01:21:21 PM »
Quote
The breakdown consists of:

•30,000 additional weekly seats on the Gold Coast, Cleveland, Ipswich, Doomben and Rosewood lines
•215,000 weekly bus seats across Brisbane
•40,000 weekly bus seats across the Gold Coast
•10,000 additional seats for school services and buses in the Logan/Park Ridge area
•8000 additional seats on Brisbane's CityCat services.

 ??? Is this accurate?

Should school bus services count? These buses are not able to be used by the general public.
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #143 on: July 02, 2010, 02:04:23 PM »
Of course they should. One, how are kids not part of the general public? And secondly, without the school bus services, most parents owuld end up driving their kids to school, or the older ones would drive themselves.
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Offline #Metro

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #144 on: July 02, 2010, 02:50:26 PM »
Quote
One, how are kids not part of the general public?

The 'general' bit. If anyone could catch that bus, and it could be searched from the TransLink services website journey planner without selecting the "private" or "other" option, then I would include it. Otherwise, IMHO it should not count. (But school services should definitely get a boost to frequency too).
« Last Edit: July 02, 2010, 02:52:28 PM by tramtrain »
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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #145 on: July 02, 2010, 03:01:49 PM »
The Gold Coast services DEFINATELY needs the six cars running.  I know that from personal experience.  I've seen it standing room only on an outbound Saturday morning service.
Leaving Indooroopilly shops outbound on a 444 around 5-6pm on a Saturday is always standing room only.  Also, leaving Roma St at 12:22am on a weekend on the 444 is always standing room only, and remains so after Indooroopilly shops.  I would expect that the same thing applies to the last weekend 345s too.  By your logic these services also need a frequency upgrade.

One question though, are you saying it is the normal case that it is standing room only, or that you have seen it once?

The 'general' bit. If anyone could catch that bus, and it could be searched from the TransLink services website journey planner without selecting the "private" or "other" option, then I would include it. Otherwise, IMHO it should not count. (But school services should definitely get a boost to frequency too).
Good point.  If Translink tickets aren't valid on the service, then it shouldn't count.  That'd be like counting TravelTrain services, Moreton Bay ferries or Greyhound buses.

Offline stephenk

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #146 on: July 02, 2010, 05:23:41 PM »
So these extra seats (added in the lamest way possible - I was seriously hoping for more services) means that with the possible exception of the North Coast Line, every line apart from the Ferny Grove Line has had extra seats added since April 2008.

Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2007 - 7tph
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2010 - 4tph
* departures from Central between 16:30 and 17:30.

Offline #Metro

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #147 on: July 02, 2010, 08:45:35 PM »
Quote
So these extra seats (added in the lamest way possible - I was seriously hoping for more services) means that with the possible exception of the North Coast Line, every line apart from the Ferny Grove Line has had extra seats added since April 2008.

I feel your pain. Getting anywhere late at night is an ordeal with half hour frequencies.
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Offline stephenk

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #148 on: July 02, 2010, 09:20:43 PM »
My second complaint in 2 days, this time to TransLink, not that they will do anything about it.

"Whilst it is good to see that Translink (only just) managed to provide the promised 83,000 extra seats on trains by the July 1st deadline, it is very disappointing that very few extra services were introduced onto a rail system with some serious gaps in service.

It is also very disappointing, that despite a huge fare increase earlier in the year, the Ferny Grove Line has not received a single extra seat in the last 2 years (apart from seats made available by frustrated commuters going back to driving).

The March 2008 timetable introduced after the Mitchelton to Keperra duplication resulted in no overall increase in trains per hour in the peaks. As the expresses were changed to run express to/from Mitchelton instead of Enoggera, then both Enoggera and Gaythorne had a reduction is service. In fact the number of trains departing Central for Enoggera and Gaythorne between 4:30pm and 5:30pm reduced from 7 to 4. The resulting 20+ minute service gaps are totally unacceptable. It is thus no surprise that the patronage figures at Enoggera have decreased.

I sincerely hope that Translink have not given themselves a pat on the back for reducing overcrowding on the Ferny Grove Line by doing absolutely nothing. Surely forcing commuters back to driving is the opposite to TransLink's purpose?

TransLink and QR need to rectify the problems with the Ferny Grove  Line timetable before the next fare increase. The timetable can be tweaked in many places, such as returning express services to Enoggera and Gaythorne, and adding an extra service in the 21-23min gap in the early am peak.

Many frustrated commuters cannot wait until (?) late 2011 for new timetables, and 2012 for the Keperra to Ferny Grove duplication. Lack of action now will only result in a further embarrassing loss of patronage at some Ferny Grove Line stations.

Please forward this feedback to TransLink's CEO."

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Offline brad C

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #149 on: July 02, 2010, 10:39:19 PM »
Stephenk

Whilst I am sympathetic to your cause, I can't help noticing the frequency of FG trains on the shoulder PM peak., For example, whilst poor old Caboolture commuters wait for their trains in between 1748 and 1806 and 1836, they can't but help notice the over-generous supply of Ferny Grove services such as the 1747hrs, 1757hrs, followed by the almost empty 1804hrs then the 1818hrs, and 1834hrs. No standing for 20 minutes on these services.
Yes, there are certainly deficiencies in the busy peak periods on the short haul stations on the FG line, but look at the sheer luxury of the service availability at the wind down of the evening peak.
We poor souls on the caboolture line are even standing on the 1836 service at least to Geebung.
I have noticed that even our 1907hrs service has standees of late to Northgate and beyond.

The whole system needs a good dose of salts!!

Offline Derwan

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #150 on: July 03, 2010, 01:02:50 AM »
So these extra seats (added in the lamest way possible - I was seriously hoping for more services) means that with the possible exception of the North Coast Line, every line apart from the Ferny Grove Line has had extra seats added since April 2008.

Shorncliffe line hasn't had extra seats added either (to my knowledge).
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Offline #Metro

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #151 on: July 03, 2010, 01:35:15 AM »
Quote
I sincerely hope that Translink have not given themselves a pat on the back for reducing overcrowding on the Ferny Grove Line by doing absolutely nothing. Surely forcing commuters back to driving is the opposite to TransLink's purpose?

This is exactly my issue with what I call "smiley face" statistics.
It doesn't matter what is going on, all the statistics will ever tell you is  :)  :)  :)  :)  :), even if the system is crumbling.

My main gripes are:
Overcrowding statistic. A service is overcrowded when people get so uncomfortable on the train that they buy a car and never go back to public transport ever again. PT must be comfortable, that means minimum number of people standing for minimum time. Car commuters and their passengers never ever stand in their cars do they now? If this means higher fares to put more trains on, then that should be considered. People will pay for quality, people will pay for a car if it is lacking.

When people leave PT due to poor service quality (shockingly poor frequency, graffiti, dirty trains, crushed at peak hour) this actually makes the overcrowding statistic look even better. A proper test would be if overcrowding fell, but the number of passengers remained the same or increased. Unfortunately the number of passengers on trains fell by something like 4% IIRC, obscured by go card count methods.

Bus on time: The bus might be on time, but if the bus is full you can't get on and it will whizz past you. The more buses that are full like this, the better the bus on time figure is expected to be, simply because the bus isn't making stops! Amazing!

Subsidy per passenger level:
High levels of subsidy per passenger are presented as if its some kind of proof that the government unwavering and generous financial support for PT. Actually, high levels of subsidy per passenger is a bad thing, as most of rail's (and this might apply to other PT modes too) are fixed costs, it shows that services are so infrequent that there isn't enough patronage attracted to dilute these large fixed costs.

Trains on time: Melbourne, Sydney and Perth appear to have worse statistics for trains on time, around 85% or so. I suspect that the low frequency offers a longer time to recover from interruptions, and therefore the network is more reliable than one where more trains are running on it. A system with higher frequency but slightly lower trains on time may be better than a system with low frequency but near-perfect timeliness. Even worse QR is getting fined to the hilt for not meeting the standard, when actually it might be improving services by adding more trains on!

 :lo 15 minutes  :lo 15 minutes  :lo 15 minutes  :lo 15 minutes
« Last Edit: July 03, 2010, 01:41:16 AM by tramtrain »
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Offline stephenk

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #152 on: July 03, 2010, 08:19:36 AM »
So these extra seats (added in the lamest way possible - I was seriously hoping for more services) means that with the possible exception of the North Coast Line, every line apart from the Ferny Grove Line has had extra seats added since April 2008.

Shorncliffe line hasn't had extra seats added either (to my knowledge).

I think you are correct, and the lack of effort to fill that 38min gap is atrocious. Write a letter to Translink asking where your fare increase has gone to for Shorncliffe Line users.
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #153 on: July 03, 2010, 09:48:52 AM »
TT, you have a point there with the statistics. And even I, having only done a basic statistics for engineers course, know that statistics like that need to be normalised. So like how they show their complaints, it should be overcrowded trains per x number of rail commuters.
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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #154 on: July 03, 2010, 12:11:39 PM »
I definitely agree about the points on the Caboolture line, from the few times I have used it.  Off peak this seems to be even busier than the Ipswich line.  I guess many people (me included) migrate to bus on the very busy Indro-city corridor, but use trains in peak to get out of traffic.  Beenleigh line seems to NOT be busy off peak at any time I have seen it.  I've never used the Cleveland or Ferny Grove lines.

Stephenk,
A couple of points:
(1) most of the 83 400 seat promised for rail have actually been provided by bus services, and apparently this is counting school routes.
(2) Have you seen posts before on escalating to the CEO?  You need to do it by postal mail.  I would refer you to this PDF: http://download.translink.com.au/about/091028_complaintsmanagement.pdf
(3) I think it would be more useful if you explained better what you are expecting them to do about it.

I feel your pain. Getting anywhere late at night is an ordeal with half hour frequencies.
Do you mean hourly frequencies?  That's what applies on most lines.

Offline Arnz

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #155 on: July 03, 2010, 06:05:34 PM »
I agree that 3-car to 6-car services do count as extra seats, however it does beg the question, are these weekend upgrades on the GC line actually needed due to high use, or are they being upgraded simply so Translink can say they are meeting this target?

Been down to Helensvale on a day trip today (Saturday)

Load heading Southbound judging by the back 3 cars had plenty of seats available.  People had a seat to themselves.  Only seen the front 3 cars on arrival at Helensvale and it's about the same as the back 3 cars.

Heading back towards the city, a bit of a better load, though it seems the patronage (judging by the front 3 cars) was mostly holidaymakers/brisbane daytrippers.
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

STB

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #156 on: July 03, 2010, 09:22:04 PM »
The Gold Coast services DEFINATELY needs the six cars running.  I know that from personal experience.  I've seen it standing room only on an outbound Saturday morning service.
Leaving Indooroopilly shops outbound on a 444 around 5-6pm on a Saturday is always standing room only.  Also, leaving Roma St at 12:22am on a weekend on the 444 is always standing room only, and remains so after Indooroopilly shops.  I would expect that the same thing applies to the last weekend 345s too.  By your logic these services also need a frequency upgrade.

One question though, are you saying it is the normal case that it is standing room only, or that you have seen it once?

More than once.  I've also travelled on six car sets down there with solid loads, mostly during the earlier part of this year and during the university term just gone.

Offline stephenk

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Re: New Services Tally
« Reply #157 on: July 08, 2010, 09:22:18 PM »
Whilst taking photos in the CBD this evening between 5 and 6pm(ish) I noticed three 3-car services heading south across the Merivale Bridge. Obviously Translink and QR have not converted all 3-car peak services to 6-car.
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2007 - 7tph
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2010 - 4tph
* departures from Central between 16:30 and 17:30.

 

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“You can't understand a city without using its public transportation system.” -- Erol Ozan