Platform 10 at Roma Street

[bladesplace]

G'day all,

When are TransLink going to put readers on Platform 10 at Roma Street, like they have on the shared busway-platform?! Once again, my service this morning pulled in to Platform 10 (#1964... AGAIN) and quite a few commuters just went through the gates then stopped and started to swear when they saw the penalty fare. 

The fare gates are directional and it thinks I'm trying to touch ON again as I'm 'entering' the paid area of the station. But since I've already touched on at my home station, the system thinks I forgot to tag off somewhere and BAM! Penalty fare time.

This is simply not good enough! 

Usually, I simply reach over and touch my card to the touch pad on the other side of the gates (luckily, I'm tall), then wait for it to open and then tag on from the outside. This makes the system think I'm touching on, and can then make it through the tunnel underneath and touch off at the other end without being charged)

But I wasn't able to lean that far today due to a back injury, so tried to explain my way through the paper ticket area and wasn't able to! They told me to use the gates.   

Dammit! By the amount of people that got charged just from that one service, that's at least $100 worth of slush funds the government got from this screw up! To make matters worse, when the hapless passengers tried to get through the gates on the otherside of the tunnel, they got charged the penalty fare AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   
(Because the Penalty fare charged when entering from Platform 10 does not touch your card on, when one goes through to the the Roma Street end of the station where one exits, the system hasn't recorded you touching on and slams you with the penalty fare as you try to exit).

What are we supposed to do? 

At the very least, the free standing validators should be placed at the top of the Platform 10 escalators and outside the lift with a sign saying "If your passenger service has arrived on Platform 10, please touch your go card off at these readers before going through the fare gates underneath the station or exiting via Parklands. These ensures you are not charged a penalty fare.

But of course, the government would lose precious penalty fare revenue so of course nothing will be done.

GRRRRRRRR

Cheers

MJ </rant>

[Fridge]

I highlighted this to Translink back in March last year and it looked like QR was aware of the issue as well.  See http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2055.msg10038#msg10038

Not sure what's been happening because I don't travel to the city anymore, but it sounds like they've taken a few steps backwards.

[#Metro]

State Transport Minister Rachel Nolan has promised the additional money raised will be used to fund 301,000 more passengers seats across the southeast Queensland public transport network by July.

Hope to see lots of new services and improvements. 301,000 more seats in just six months!

[Derwan]

Considering the number of people using the Go Card will significantly increase due to fare changes, QR cannot continue to use platform 10 for suburban trains without the presence of readers.  With so many platforms at Roma St, why is there even a requirement to use platform 10?

Perhaps the inundation of refund requests to TransLink will prompt them to do something about it and install readers - or at least discuss the matter with QR to come up with a solution.

[dwb]

Considering the number of people using the Go Card will significantly increase due to fare changes, QR cannot continue to use platform 10 for suburban trains without the presence of readers.  With so many platforms at Roma St, why is there even a requirement to use platform 10?
Perhaps the inundation of refund requests to TransLink will prompt them to do something about it and install readers - or at least discuss the matter with QR to come up with a solution.

This is just the kind of thing Translink needs to ENSURE are FIXED PRIOR to implementing paper fares... we've had go card for TWO YEARS now, WHY hasn't this been fixed yet?!!?!

[bladesplace]

QR cannot continue to use platform 10 for suburban trains without the presence of readers.  

This particular service - #1964 - always uses Platform 10. It has for the few weeks and then on and off days I've caught it.

Perhaps the inundation of refund requests to TransLink will prompt them to do something about it and install readers - or at least discuss the matter with QR to come up with a solution.

Are you kidding?  

During the Pilot, while I was queuing up and then touching off at Petrie, another outbound train pulled up behind us on Platform 1 (five minutes after my service) and in the stampede I was pushed and shoved over and sprained my ankle quite badly and was on crutches for awhile. I told TransLink and got no sympathy or notice and didn't even get my penalty fare refunded (because I couldn't touch off).

What has TransLink done since that incident?

They removed one of the two readers at the spot. Which was, up until quite recently, the only place one could touch off.  

TransLink's utter stupidity absolutely transcends anything I've ever seen before.  

There are only two places to touch off at Petrie when exiting from the main Platform 1 exit - which is where most outbound peak services stop at. It's exceedingly dangerous and the queues I witnessed this afternoon were staggering. While only halfway though the queue, another service pulled in behind me and it was bedlam. I was grateful to finally escape!

If you value your health, don't use a Go Card at Petrie during afternoon Peak!

This is just the kind of thing Translink needs to ENSURE are FIXED PRIOR to implementing paper fares... we've had go card for TWO YEARS now, WHY hasn't this been fixed yet?!!?!

Because it's TransLink's dirty little secret to raise more funds to pay for the Politician's pay rises. 

Well, maybe not for that, but what other reason could it possibly be? 

Cheers

MJ

[STB]

While an obvious problem, just have to keep in mind that if you put readers for Platform 10, there might be a few who touch on at those readers, then touch again at the fare gates.

I've noticed quite a few who have touched on at the readers on the busway platform then touched on the bus, getting a penalty as the system thinks you haven't touched off the rail part of the journey.  Even though you never travelled on rail.

[bladesplace]

I've noticed quite a few who have touched on at the readers on the busway platform then touched on the bus

Perhaps a sign or a labet on the reader saying something along the lines of, "Do not use this reader unless your TRAIN has used (or will use) this Platform."

What really annoys me is the Platform the XPT uses (is it the same one?) has a plethora of stand alone validators right along the platform: at the lower end lift and at the travelators.

Just put one of these near the travelators on Platform 10 (and perhaps one at Petrie on Platform 1) and all these problems would be solved.

[STB]

Yeah...and how many people in reality read signs...?  Seriously.

The touching on has for me become automatic, even if there were signs on the readers, I'm more than likely to touch the reader by mistake, despite being a long time user of public transport.

[stephenk]

It could be argued that in this case Translink are defrauding customers arriving at platform 10?

[STB]

The question I'd be asking is...are there actually scheduled services departing from Platform 10 (except Traveltrain), or are they Day Of Operation services, ie: is Mayne Control sending that train to Platform 10?

[verbatim9]

Yeah why doesnt that reader on platform 10 automatically know where you are coming from (train that is)? Why has it been defaulted to Touch on only and  not touch on and touch off?

[bladesplace]

Yeah...and how many people in reality read signs...?  Seriously.

ROTFL! Yeah, you're 100% right.

The question I'd be asking is...are there actually scheduled services departing from Platform 10 (except Traveltrain), or are they Day Of Operation services, ie: is Mayne Control sending that train to Platform 10?

As I understand it, Mayne sends them there and no passenger services are actually scheduled to use it. Having said, the service I have been referring to - #1964 - always seems to end up there. I've never actualy caught it when it uses a 'regular' platform. The #1964 terminates at Roma Street though, which makes me believe they use it as a holding area to keep the other platforms clear for through services and terminating services that were there first.

Yeah why doesnt that reader on platform 10 automatically know where you are coming from (train that is)? Why has it been defaulted to Touch on only and  not touch on and touch off?

Roma Street - as well as Fortitude Valley, Central, Toowong and some others, use Fare Gates. The platforms and area inside the Fare Gates is called the 'Paid Zone'.

The Fare Gates are 'directional', which means it tags you on as you enter the paid zone, and tags you off as you leave it. Normally, this works properly. It immediately picks up if you have forgotten to touch on at your home station, and automatically touches you on when you start a journey.

The issue here is, Platform 10 is outside the paid zone. So is the Platform 2 - the platform that is the busway station on one side, and a rail platform on the other (The XPT uses this one I think). However, TransLink realized that Platform 2 is outside of the paid zooe, so they installed those free-standing validators  - the ones you see at most rail stations - at all the exits to Platform 2.

But they didn't think to put them on Platform 10! I've never seen a QR passenger train use Platform 2, but Platform 10 seems to get at least one passenger per day. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Perth apparently has a similar problem with a shared bus/train area, but their system is programmed to see that their smart card was tagged of a bus right before and doesn't charge the holder the penalty fare when it appears to go through the fare gates in what looks to it as the wrong way (and vice versa).

[dwb]

The question I'd be asking is...are there actually scheduled services departing from Platform 10 (except Traveltrain), or are they Day Of Operation services, ie: is Mayne Control sending that train to Platform 10?

No, the platform should have readers irrespective.

While an obvious problem, just have to keep in mind that if you put readers for Platform 10, there might be a few who touch on at those readers, then touch again at the fare gates.
I've noticed quite a few who have touched on at the readers on the busway platform then touched on the bus, getting a penalty as the system thinks you haven't touched off the rail part of the journey.  Even though you never travelled on rail.

In London, the Docklands Light Railway has readers mounted on poles. When you are transfering between DLR and the Tube, you have to touch, otherwise you shouldn't... this is about the only exception in London... the rest of the time you have to go through gates, and buses are only tag on.

Customers just need to get used to doing everything in pairs, its not that hard a concept, will just take getting used to. I can imagine those bus users who use the pole to tag on/off at Platform 2 only do it once or twice before learning.

[longboi]

I swear to God there are people who just touch their card onto every reader they pass 

[STB]

The question I'd be asking is...are there actually scheduled services departing from Platform 10 (except Traveltrain), or are they Day Of Operation services, ie: is Mayne Control sending that train to Platform 10?

No, the platform should have readers irrespective.

While an obvious problem, just have to keep in mind that if you put readers for Platform 10, there might be a few who touch on at those readers, then touch again at the fare gates.
I've noticed quite a few who have touched on at the readers on the busway platform then touched on the bus, getting a penalty as the system thinks you haven't touched off the rail part of the journey.  Even though you never travelled on rail.

In London, the Docklands Light Railway has readers mounted on poles. When you are transfering between DLR and the Tube, you have to touch, otherwise you shouldn't... this is about the only exception in London... the rest of the time you have to go through gates, and buses are only tag on.

Customers just need to get used to doing everything in pairs, its not that hard a concept, will just take getting used to. I can imagine those bus users who use the pole to tag on/off at Platform 2 only do it once or twice before learning.

The reason I asked that question is because if it's a regular scheduled service to arrive on that platform then having standalone readers on that platform would be justified, albeit you'd have a few who would touch on at those readers than touch again at the fare gates downstairs.

Two possible solutions, one would be to move the fare gates to Platform 10 at the main entrance, or two, program the readers to recognise if the card has already touched at one of those standalone readers as a failsafe for those passengers who accidently touch both the standalone readers on the platform and the fare gates downstairs.

IMO, those readers on Platform 2 really should be removed, surburban revenue trains cannot use Platform 2 (engineering stuff up of the dual guage...long story.) to prevent people touching on those readers then touching on the bus, or getting off the bus and touching on those readers then touching again at the fare gates.

[somebody]

Aren't Translink punishing themselves here?  If you've come from Caboolture and touch off, that fare would be $5.40, but $5 if you don't touch off.  Obviously those prices go up significantly if you've come from further than Caboolture.

[ozbob]

One problem with fixed fare penalities is that it resets your journey counter, so if you were on 9 journeys and looking forward to your 50% discount after 10 journeys for the week, blown ...

Some think this rather unfair, as in many cases a fixed fare may be due to a system problem and not user error.

[Derwan]

Aren't Translink punishing themselves here?  If you've come from Caboolture and touch off, that fare would be $5.40, but $5 if you don't touch off.  Obviously those prices go up significantly if you've come from further than Caboolture.

Unfortunately the majority would need to head towards the city, which means going through the fare gates.

One problem with fixed fare penalities is that it resets your journey counter, so if you were on 9 journeys and looking forward to your 50% discount after 10 journeys for the week, blown ...

I thought it just wasn't counted.  E.g. 10 trips but you didn't touch off in one, it'd only count as 9.  You'd have to do 2 more trips to see the 50% discount.

This is where I think the system could be a lot smarter.  Simple logic could be added so that if you forget to touch off, the next touch should be considered the destination of your previous trip - unless it is the same train station.  This means that:

*  If you forget to touch off at a train station and then transfer (within the 3.5 hours) to a bus/ferry, the system should be able to calculate the journey correctly.
*  If you forget to touch off at the end of the journey, and the next touch is after the 3.5 hours, the system should calculate the previous journey and commence the new one.

This would put an end to those travelling through more than 6 zones receiving cheap fares by simply not touching off - and would reduce the number of adjustments required.

[dwb]

IMO, those readers on Platform 2 really should be removed, surburban revenue trains cannot use Platform 2 (engineering stuff up of the dual guage...long story.) to prevent people touching on those readers then touching on the bus, or getting off the bus and touching on those readers then touching again at the fare gates.

They could just put covers over them couldn't they? Maybe they intend fixing those issues with the dual gauge?

Aren't Translink punishing themselves here?  If you've come from Caboolture and touch off, that fare would be $5.40, but $5 if you don't touch off.  Obviously those prices go up significantly if you've come from further than Caboolture.

The non-touch off is fee is effectively the default fare, that's why they charge it up front, so yes, for longer distances they would 'lose' money. However surely there would be a programming "trap" that prevents use of the card after say 3-5 successive penalty fares being charged until you ring the contact centre to sort it out?? Otherwise everyone from the Gold Coast will start getting VERY cheap fares to Brisbane!

This is where I think the system could be a lot smarter.  Simple logic could be added so that if you forget to touch off, the next touch should be considered the destination of your previous trip - unless it is the same train station.

I agree!!

[justanotheruser]

subscribing to topic

[somebody]

Aren't Translink punishing themselves here?  If you've come from Caboolture and touch off, that fare would be $5.40, but $5 if you don't touch off.  Obviously those prices go up significantly if you've come from further than Caboolture.

The non-touch off is fee is effectively the default fare, that's why they charge it up front, so yes, for longer distances they would 'lose' money. However surely there would be a programming "trap" that prevents use of the card after say 3-5 successive penalty fares being charged until you ring the contact centre to sort it out?? Otherwise everyone from the Gold Coast will start getting VERY cheap fares to Brisbane!

Not if they are getting off at one of the city stations where they would need to go through the gates to get out of the station.

[dwb]

South Brisbane station is open, and for many people in the city is actually a better stop than Roma or Central all they need to do is walk across the Goodwill Bridge.

But yes, I acknowledge the closed stations catch the majority of peak flow people on rail...

[somebody]

South Brisbane station is open, and for many people in the city is actually a better stop than Roma or Central all they need to do is walk across the Goodwill Bridge.

But yes, I acknowledge the closed stations catch the majority of peak flow people on rail...

South Brisbane has fare gates, unless I'm mistaken.  Are they just never manned!?

South Bank is open, maybe that's the one you meant.  Might be a better stop if you are heading to QUT.

[dwb]

Yep, sorry South Bank is the one I meant! 

[O_128]

Yep, sorry South Bank is the one I meant! 

You might have noticed that south bank is getting redeveloped as a TOD next year and part of the contract is that They must upgrade the station so gates will most likely be insatlled then.

[dwb]

I can't imagine they'll start construction next year and last I heard QR were being difficult and giving AJG stick for wanting the station not to have a bitumen surface, so I doubt they'll do gates.... besides it doesn't have a concourse nor a tunnel as main access so there are at least three points you'd need gates, and the point of gates is to give control, but they need to be supervised, so it won't happen bc poles will be cheaper.

[O_128]

I can't imagine they'll start construction next year and last I heard QR were being difficult and giving AJG stick for wanting the station not to have a bitumen surface, so I doubt they'll do gates.... besides it doesn't have a concourse nor a tunnel as main access so there are at least three points you'd need gates, and the point of gates is to give control, but they need to be supervised, so it won't happen bc poles will be cheaper.

Bitumen Surface? I wonder whos fault that is lol. There is already and Office at South Bank and i read somewhere else that they are looking at building a concourse above with a new station office.

[Jon Bryant]

The inside word (from the contruction company) is that the development is being scaled back but overall the concept is the same.  Construction to start later this year

[#Metro]

There are only two places to touch off at Petrie when exiting from the main Platform 1 exit - which is where most outbound peak services stop at. It's exceedingly dangerous and the queues I witnessed this afternoon were staggering. While only halfway though the queue, another service pulled in behind me and it was bedlam. I was grateful to finally escape!

A photo of this would be Courier-Mail front page material! Not boring crime statistics.

PS: That south bank development looks absolutely HUGE! (The apartments though are fantastic though, not like the typical 1960s/1970s brick boxes).