High Speed and Fast Rail

[#Metro]

Is that the purpose of HSR? Why not just develop existing towns and rail on existing corridors? They're closer.

[verbatim9]

Congestion!? The idea of building up regional towns would take infrastructure and population pressure off Bne Syd and Mel

[ozbob]

The Guardian --> Why are we still waiting for high-speed rail between Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane?

[ozbob]

Melbourne Age --> New Melbourne-Sydney fast rail pitch to Malcolm Turnbull

[ozbob]

Smartrail --> Life in the fast lane; ranking the world's 20 high-speed trains

[#Metro]

Something that goes 200 - 250 km / hour would be sufficient for the SEQ region.

Sunshine Coast would be 35 minutes away or so (speed) or assuming a 30 min frequency, 1 hour away.

Being a more modest speed, it would not come with the costs of Maglev etc. However, broad gauge would need to be used, not

just for stability but to take advantage of standardisation lowering costs.

[Gazza]

HSR is near universally standard gauge rather than broad.

[Stillwater]

Tilt Train: less than 80 kph through Sunshine Coast 

Bureaucrats here tend to favour France's (proven) TGV technology, but perhaps China can make us an offer Australia can't refuse.

[ozbob]

HSR is near universally standard gauge rather than broad.

Yo.  Mistake not to stick to 4' 8.5"  ...  related this >

San Hose Mercury News --> Has BART's cutting-edge 1972 technology design come back to haunt it?

... Rather than stick to the standard rail track width of 4 feet, 8.5 inches, BART engineers debuted a 5-foot, 6-inch width track, a gauge that remains to this day almost exclusive to the system. Industry experts say the unique track width necessitates custom-made wheel sets, brake assemblies and track repair vehicles. The agency also debuted a flat-edge rail, while other systems tilt slightly inward. That BART design requires more maintenance and is noisier, experts say.

Those one-of-a-kind systems lead to a dearth of readily available replacement parts. Maintenance crews often scavenge parts from old, out-of-service cars to avoid lengthy waits for orders to come in; sometimes mechanics are forced to manufacture the equipment themselves.  ...

[ozbob]

7 News --> PM tipped to back new rail funding method

The prime minister is reportedly preparing to take to voters a new funding approach to national projects including plans for high-speed rail links on the east coast to boost regional centres and ease capital city congestion.

To fund the rail projects, and potentially a Melbourne Metro, the government will promote value capture financing, which leverages the increase in land value resulting from new transport infrastructure to contribute to its cost, The Australian reported on Monday.

Another option under consideration is to levy a so-called betterment tax on property owners, who would receive a substantial financial boost from the new transport infrastructure.

The Australian says Malcolm Turnbull is set to unveil a sweeping cities policy ahead of next month's budget that will also transform the funding of Australian infrastructure projects.

A key plank of the new policy will be to use high-speed rail developments to encourage population growth in regional centres and ease growth pressures in Sydney and Melbourne.

PM tipped to back new rail funding method. https://t.co/WHQIsimK8L #7News https://t.co/Czh4LEE8Rz

— 7 News Queensland (@7NewsQueensland) April 10, 2016

[#Metro]

Wow, is this for real or prelude to election?

Amazing, nonetheless...

[ozbob]

Twitter

Adam Bandt ‏@AdamBandt

High Speed Rail: the train that only runs in election years



==============

^ Bandt has a point ..   

[#Metro]

I don't really understand that poster. Train that only runs in election years? Er, isn't that because it is vote bait?

And what about NZ? That doesn't have HSR.

[ozbob]

^ just making the point that HSR is trotted out with each election ..

Meanwhile ..

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Twitter

RN Breakfast ‏@RNBreakfast

Can you build a $100 billion high speed rail line with value capture alone? @AlboMP says no. http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/anthony-albanese-on-renewed-discussions-of-high/7315094 ...

[ozbob]

Just a gentle reminder what the real thing looks like ...    < Oz HSR

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Twitter

RailWebcams.net ‏@RailWebcams 4h

NEW Streaming webcam showing brand new Hokkaido Shinkansen at Shin Hakodate Station:

http://railwebcams.net/shin-hakodate-hokuto-railway-station-webcam/ ...

[ozbob]

Twitter

Federal Politics ‏@PoliticsFairfax now

High-speed rail has now cropped up for three elections on the trot, writes @michaelkoziol

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/springfield-monorail-of-australian-politics-how-a-very-fast-train-is-a-very-preelection-promise-20160410-go35cf.html ...



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^ WTG Oz'tralia ...   

[ozbob]

ABC Lateline --> Fast train from Melbourne to Brisbane proposed by Prime Minister

[ozbob]

Rail Express --> High Speed Rail thrust under election microscope

The viability of a high speed train line on Australia's east coast is yet again part of the national debate, after a report surfaced this week that the Coalition is planning on launching a value-capture model to fund such a project.

Despite the fact their had been no statement formally announcing plans at time of writing (Monday afternoon, April 11), an exclusive report published in The Australian this week has already led to responses from the Labor Party and the Greens.

The Australian reported on Monday morning that the prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull, is preparing to announce plans for a high speed rail line between Brisbane and Melbourne.

The line would help connect regional cities, as part of a cities building program.

Helping to fund the massive project – again, according to the report – will be a bold value-capture strategy, which will seek to soak up the benefit of the high speed line by taking revenue from the landowners who gain from the line itself.

Anthony Albanese, who has been an advocate of an east coast high speed rail line for at least three years, says any suggestion the line can be built without any public money is total nonsense.

"Malcolm Turnbull is out there today on the front page of The Australian newspaper purporting to suggest that now he's in favour of High Speed Rail and that it can be done for free. That is a fantasy," Albanese told the media on Monday afternoon.

"You can involve the private sector and we should involve the private sector in value capture along the route because of the benefit that will be there for real estate in towns like Canberra and Newcastle, Albury-Wodonga, Shepparton.

"But there will need to be a government contribution.

"And most importantly you don't build such a nation building project by having a headline in a newspaper."

Albanese, who has lobbied for a Bill in parliament for some time which would create an Authority in charge of the project, says his Bill should be accepted if the Turnbull Government is serious about the line.

"He comes up with ideas that are old, that have been progressed, that indeed his government and Tony Abbott's government have wound back and stopped the advance of, and then pretends that somehow this is some new whiz-bang initiative.

"It's not."

The Greens welcomed The Australian's report, and urged the prime minister to commit to action on "this transformative project".

"High speed rail's time has come, but Australia needs courage and vision to get it moving," Australian Greens Senator Janet Rice said.

"The Greens welcome a robust discussion about smart ways to capture the benefit that land owners achieve from this type of transport infrastructure development, including through the use of land taxes.

"Former PM Abbott had little interest in clean 21st Century transport and instead pushed the barrow of more polluting toll roads. We need to see some real commitment by Mr Turnbull, not just another pre-election grab at a headline."

[ozbob]

Melbourne Age --> Turnbull plan to put Australia back on the slow road towards high-speed rail

[ozbob]

Twitter

In reply to janet eades
David Marler ‏@Qldaah 1 hour ago

Yeah. That report only went back to 1998. Here's another http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2015/s4441374.htm ... @janetbackstage @ClancyBenson



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[ozbob]

Twitter

Geoff Pearson ‏@GCobber99 2h

Turnbull tries to build it but imports steel from The Swiss don't worry about South Aussie jobs!



===============

^ very good!   

[verbatim9]

I read the cost analysis in the Couriermail I dont think they took International visitors into account or short regional trips to and from work. Say Gold Coast-Brisbane, Sunshine Coast-Brisbane or Newcastle-Sydney. Those trips would definitely be a return on investment for HSR.

[ozbob]

Gold Coast Bulletin --> Moncrieff MP Steve Ciobo pushes Gold Coast to rail company MTR Corporation for fast trains

FEDERAL Trade Minister Steve Ciobo has invited a global rail company to build a high-speed train linking the Gold Coast and Brisbane.

The Gold Coast MP said there was strong case to be made for a southeast Queensland bullet train given the increasing congestion of the M1 during peak times.

His comments came as fellow Liberal MP John Alexander said a high-speed train from Melbourne to Sydney could be operating within a decade.

A 2013 study commissioned by the former Labor government concluded the rail network should eventually link Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne, as well as the Coast and other major regional centre.

Mr Ciobo raised the possibility of a Coast-Brisbane train when he met with MTR Corporation during a trade mission to China this week.

MTR invests in railways around the world and has obtained contracts to operate rapid transit systems in London, Stockholm, Beijing, Shenzhen, Hangzhou, Melbourne and Sydney.

"I encouraged MTR to look at the Gold Coast and explained the need for a high-speed rail link between our city and Brisbane," he said.

"MTR has significant major rail projects in Australia and across the world and I believe a vibrant growing city such as the Gold Coast would be perfect for their next project.

"MTR has a unique business model called "rail plus property" that could provide an innovative way to fund a high-speed rail link between the Gold Coast and Brisbane."

Under the business model, MTR builds rail lines and stations and in return is given development rights to surrounding land.

The Gold Coast Bulletin has been calling on federal MPs to fight for a better deal for the Coast from Canberra in the lead up to the 2016 election in our Fair Go for the regions campaign.

Transport and M1 congestion is at the top of the wish list from residents.

A spokesman for advocacy group Rail Back on Track, Robert Dow, said the Coast to Brisbane route would have high patronage and could be a testbed for a future east coast fast rail network.

"The first cab off the rank as far as we're concerned could be Brisbane to the Gold Coast, without a doubt at all," he said.

"It wouldn't have that many stations — a stop at Helensvale to connect to light rail."

Mayor Tom Tate said the Coast was Australia's No. 1 tourism destination and high-speed rail from key cities such as Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne would benefit the city and economy.

Other Coast MPs including Karen Andrews, Stuart Robert and Bert van Manen said they supported fast rail for the east coast of Australia.

Mr Robert said in a perfect world the route would go via Brisbane and the Coast but Sydney-Melbourne might have to be built first.

"Having the route go between two pre-eminent cities (Sydney and Melbourne) makes enormous sense but it doesn't mean we can't have a stronger vision," he said.

"As our city gets busier and busier rail becomes crucial. We can't do everything at once and the cost is horrendous."

WHAT IS MTR?

MTR Corporation, which is 76 per cent owned by the Hong Kong government, operates commuter, airport and metro rail systems around the world.

It is also manages shopping malls, apartments, retail units and other major buildings along some of its lines.

In Australia it runs Melbourne's Metro and will run Sydney's first private commuter railway the Sydney Metro Northwest.

Its business model involves using property development near and above train stations to fund the construction of new lines.

[ozbob]

The Huffington Post --> Government Pours Cold Water On High Speed Rail Announcement

[#Metro]

The Brisbane - Gold Coast could work very well, provided that CRR can allow standard gauge conversion.

Either that or run tilt trains on the GC line.

The electrical system is already HSR compatible.

The MTR model could work on the Gold Coast. The stations are further inland, but the whole place is Developers Paradise (excuse the

pun) so if anywhere has a chance, it is there.

[SurfRail]

Pre election dribble.  MTR  will know better.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The Brisbane - Gold Coast could work very well, provided that CRR can allow standard gauge conversion.

Either that or run tilt trains on the GC line.

The electrical system is already HSR compatible.

The MTR model could work on the Gold Coast. The stations are further inland, but the whole place is Developers Paradise (excuse the

pun) so if anywhere has a chance, it is there.

What is it with you and standard gauge and CRR??? Just get that stupid idea out of your head. Please. Get rid of it. Its a pie in the sky dream and there is too much fundamental work needed to allow them on the existing network. And what you are describing is a sh%t idea. It will never ever ever be an option. In the real world the only time hsr would be an option would be on its own dedicated network. It could share some of the corridor but it can not be on the same tracks as the QR network. And for HSR to be really popular it needs to be built closer to the coast and not further inland! Oh hey guys. We're going to build a new Melbourner to Cairns hsr line. The brisbane stop will be just west of Rosewood but we are going to allow some development around this station. Okay? Cool. Thanks.

There are only a few options needed. Run 9 car trains - this has already been planned for the next step on the Gold Coast and Caboolture lines as part of CRR/Trouts road rather than pumping more and more trains on these lines. This would be done well after CRR has been constructed and once trouts road is looking good (otherwise you'll be terminating at Roma Street to turn around). Dedicated rollingstock can then be built such as with tilting. The line speed can be upped in a few places and before you know you have 9 car trains going from coast to coast. That's somewhat the best reality we can really hope for and live in but if no one wants to fund it... well, we are going to be in the same sh%thole we are still in.

[ozbob]

Crikey --> The little policy that couldn't: high-speed rail's failures to launch

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> High-speed Rail - the mother of all infrastructure projects

[ozbob]

Club Troppo --> Realism about high-speed rail

[ozbob]

A new high speed rail proposal is being put to Malcolm Turnbull, and already Rhonda is excited #UtopiaABC pic.twitter.com/8UcsXL3lZG

— Working Dog (@workingdogprod) March 17, 2016

[BrizCommuter]

Smartrail --> Life in the fast lane; ranking the world’s 20 high-speed trains

Some incorrect facts in that image. For Japan and China the speed records are for maglev. The operating speeds provided are for high speed rail. The Shanghai Maglev has an operating speed of 431kph. The Japanese Chuo Shinkansen Maglev is only in test phase though is expected to run at 505kph.

[ozbob]

Thanks Briz, let the authors know ..

meanwhile ...

========================

Imagine travelling from Brisbane to the Gold Coast in 12 minutes https://t.co/lAgvJIiASa #7News https://t.co/REQ0mAfYkJ

— 7 News Queensland (@7NewsQueensland) April 13, 2016

[ozbob]

^ Thanks FF.  Great work to get the Sunny Coast up!  Whoa!! 

It is hard to take HSR seriously though.  Still, got to be in it to win it ...

[ozbob]

Crikey --> Is there anyone left at Fairfax to do the editing?

[Fares_Fair]

^ Thanks FF.  Great work to get the Sunny Coast up!  Whoa!! 

It is hard to take HSR seriously though.  Still, got to be in it to win it ...

You're welcome.

Might as well aim for the pie in the sky... 

[ozbob]

Melbourne Age --> Boost this nation with high-speed rail

Editorial: If this is to be an era of innovation, optimism and enterprise, as Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull suggests, then it is time for nation-building decisions that might propel Australia deep into the 21st century and safeguard its economic prospects.

Our leaders cannot afford to be lily-livered about the task ahead. City and regional transport links – road and rail – need upgrading. The population, especially in the big cities, is increasing rapidly, and it is ageing. There are pressures on just about every aspect of the infrastructure that keeps the economy and our communities functioning smoothly. It is for that reason that we urge the Turnbull government and other political parties to pursue plans for a very fast train.

High-speed rail options have been raised and abandoned countless times since the 1960s, by federal governments and by state governments, by private consortiums, policy institutes, lobby groups and more. The notion of having a high-speed train, connecting Melbourne to Sydney and Brisbane via regional cities, has been examined from every conceivable angle, but what gets in the way is political will.

Is it a feasible proposal? Yes. Would it make economic sense? Yes. Those were the firm answers from an advisory group the Gillard government commissioned in 2013 to study the prospect of a high-speed, east-coast interstate route.

It argued that high-speed rail would free up some of the existing, congested road and rail routes on the east coast, provide an option to air travel, open all sorts of opportunities for economic and social development in regional cities and improve the delivery of services. It would have, the group said, a "profound and transformational effect" and without it the nation would not prosper. But it urged any development to be done in increments, as a series of small, linked stages.

That the advisory group released its report in August 2013, in the midst of a bitterly-fought federal election campaign, may partly explain why its findings sank like a stone. Mr Turnbull, however, has resurrected the concept of a very fast train in the past week – at the same time, we note, as he is preparing for a budget and an election.

We will resist the cynicism of those who would say this is providing a convenient distraction from more immediate issues. Instead, we urge the Turnbull government, Labor, the Greens, industry, unions and investors to bring this proposal into sharp focus, for it is an idea of considerable economic merit that should be looked at seriously.

Cut the politics, and bring some hard heads to bear on developing this major infrastructure project. Co-ordinate with state leaders to determine potential routes, and decide which provincial cities would benefit most from having a high-speed train delivering people and goods directly into their town. With a low carbon footprint, plenty of construction and longer-term operational jobs, plus improved inter-city connectivity, what's not to like?

One of the big questions is how this might be financed, how the private sector might be enticed to invest. Long-term infrastructure bonds should be considered in the mix. But we would oppose special pleading for tax concessions. What must also be avoided is excessive cost, wasteful development, political pettiness or local division, and property speculation, especially any land grab that would unfairly or unduly benefit one party over another or that might put inordinate pressures on local populations.

Australia needs coherent, comprehensive and nation-building development, not airy plans to patch problems long after cities are choked by population growth. If the nation, including its regional cities, is to have strong economic growth decades from now, a very fast train must be a priority on the list of infrastructure developments.

[#Metro]

It argued that high-speed rail would free up some of the existing, congested road and rail routes on the east coast, provide an option to air travel, open all sorts of opportunities for economic and social development in regional cities and improve the delivery of services. It would have, the group said, a "profound and transformational effect" and without it the nation would not prosper. But it urged any development to be done in increments, as a series of small, linked stages.

I don't support HSR at a national level. None of these are particularly compelling or specific reasons to have HSR. For example, plane capacity. If there is an issue, buy a bigger plane.

The real contest should be between trains vs motorway lanes, not trains vs planes. There are very serious limits to motorway lane capacity and car speeds are capped at 100 - 110 km/hr. Plus over longer distances people would prefer not to drive but sit and surf the net,  or do something else with their time. Safe driving over long distances at speed is boring ... fatigue is a killer.

Where Rapid Rail could have more impact is upgrading the slow legacy corridors to connect regional areas around cities.
Victoria is moving down this path with V/Line and the patronage increases over the last few years have been very good.

[petey3801]

As I said in another thread: East coast HSR is not only about Capital to Capital, it is also about Capital to Regional and Regional to Regional.
The general rule of thumb for HSR is 3.5hrs will get approx 50-50 distribution between HSR and Air. 3hrs and less gives HSR a majority mode share.

[ozbob]

Sunshine Coast Daily --> Fisher candidate calls for high-speed rail