High Speed and Fast Rail

[ozbob]

ABC News --> Qld Government says rapid rail too expensive

Note my comments have been grabbed from an interview on ABC FM Gold Coast this morning.  I actually stressed that urban rail, problems with the rail network as it is need sorting in all Australian capitals first, eg. CRR.  Extensions to the light rail network on the Gold Coast and fixing the single line section at Coomera need to be done for example.  Also suggested that further investment in the national rail freight network was a higher priority. 

If ever the HS rail was built it would be rather silly not to include the Gold Coast, Brisbane and Sunshine Coast.  Sunshine Coast is going to have a large population, as well as the GC.  The proposal has Sydney to Brisbane as the last of the lines.   I wouldn't hold your breath!

[ozbob]

ABC News --> Hockey 'cynical' about high-speed rail plan

[frereOP]

ABC News --> Hockey 'cynical' about high-speed rail plan

The guy is obsessed with balancing the budget and just doesn't understand that its sometimes better to borrow the money, go into debt and pay some interest than it is to defer the cost to the next generation.  Not the kind of politician we or our kids need.

[Jonno]

Brisbanetimes --> Newman wants Bruce Hwy improved first

He is a goose!!!!

[Jonno]

ABC News --> Hockey 'cynical' about high-speed rail plan

The guy is obsessed with balancing the budget and just doesn't understand that its sometimes better to borrow the money, go into debt and pay some interest than it is to defer the cost to the next generation.  Not the kind of politician we or our kids need.

Funny how they are happy to spend simar amounts over simar periods on roads with ROI of around 20c in the dollar.  Roads are progress and public transport cannot make a profit!!! What a political wilderness we live in!

[#Metro]

I can't support such huge expenditure,  rather it go to melbourne metro and cross river rail.

[SteelPan]

CAN we all please stop, just STOP giving this type of "we've done a report/study" RUBBISH any more validity! 

Australia is not, in the next 50-100yrs, going to commit close to $200b (+++++)  to build a totally UNnecessary "high speed" rail line - what Australia should have done and be doing is committing to the long overdue "Inland Railway" concept - but for Pete's sake, give it to a genuinely viable and capable bunch of people/entities to do it and not that Compton fella again!

[#Metro]

This HSR plan is a fantasy, and fantasy is not reality, no matter how appealing it seems.
There is little benefit over air, has horrific rate of return of just 0.8% (probably zero within error margins), will cost absolutely ENORMOUS amount of money.

Spend that on urban rail projects please! buses! trains! ferries! trams! light rail! fix that up.
Many more productive uses for the hundreds of billions this is going to cost.

[Golliwog]

While I agree that in the short term, there are plenty of other much more important and worthy projects that should be getting funding, this is not a bad long term goal.

[ozbob]

Crikey --> Bring on the $114 billion high-speed rail network — it's a no brainer

--> http://bullettrainforaustralia.com.au/join-the-fight.php

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Fast rail construction to begin four years after Richard Branson starts space tours

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Fantasy choo-choo another test of Australian travellers' patience

[ozbob]

Twitter

Crikey.com.au ‏@crikey_news 50m

The high-speed rail study released yesterday is so detailed it even shows where taxi ranks would be at the stations http://bit.ly/151Gk2H

[ozbob]

Twitter

Alan Davies ‏@MelbUrbanist 1h

Would high speed rail really make Australia better off? http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2013/04/12/would-high-speed-rail-really-make-the-nation-better-off/ ...

[ozbob]

Twitter

Anthony Albanese ‏@AlboMP 4m

My oped on High Speed Rail in today's Australian http://tinyurl.com/boydjqh

[Derwan]

This is doing the rounds.  I think it's brilliant!!

BREAKING NEWS: Coalition unveils High-Speed Rail Plan. "It might not be as fast as Labor's plan, but it's cheaper and will be built sooner," says Tony Abbott.

[ozbob]

[ozbob]

Crikey --> High-speed rail just doesn't add up — time to move on

[johnnigh]

Brissie Times: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/boondoggle-or-best-thing-well-ever-do-what-to-make-of-high-speed-rail-20130412-2hpyp.html

Matt Burke reinforces Crikey's views and those of many of us.

Spend our dough on something useful, like urban commuter rail and the freight network.

[frereOP]

$114 Billion.  Lets put that into context...

How much did it cost (in 2013 $'s) to buid the existing Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane line?

How much did id cost to build (in 2013 $'s) the Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane dual carriageway HUME-PACIFIC highway?

Hmmmm.....a lot more than a new HSR system i suspect!

[somebody]

How much did id cost to build (in 2013 $'s) the Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane dual carriageway HUME-PACIFIC highway?

Did?  Last time I drove the Hume (2007), there were significant sections Albury to almost Gundagai which were not dual carriageway and no roadworks obvious.

Sydney-Brisbane is far from dual carriageway the whole way.  First 200km either end is about as far as it goes.

[frereOP]

I can't support such huge expenditure,  rather it go to melbourne metro and cross river rail.

Agree.

ABC News --> Hockey 'cynical' about high-speed rail plan

The guy is obsessed with balancing the budget and just doesn't understand that its sometimes better to borrow the money, go into debt and pay some interest than it is to defer the cost to the next generation.  Not the kind of politician we or our kids need.

I think he knows exactly what he is talking about and as a father of three young kids I think he also knows exactly what he is setting up for his kids in the future and what he doesn't want to leave them with is a legacy debt matching that of some of the near failed Eurozone countries.

Neither Abbott nor Hockey understand simple economics (Bernie Frazer and even Peter Costello have both admitted that).  It's not a simple income verses expenditure equation. The only thing they understand is that if you promise lower taxes, people will vote for you.  Getting elected is ALL they (or any politician) REALLY care about .

Governments don't have to balance budgets - that's just political rhetoric!  A budet deficit of X can have a return on investment across the whole economy of multiples of X but it never makes it into the accounts eg the savings you make as a mototrist because the government builds a loss-making railway line which takes cars and people off the road so you don't have to sit in traffic jams burning fuel while you go nowhere, plus the saving the economy makes through reduction in associated road trauma and the cost to the health and rehabilitaion budgets plus savings from reduced road damage by moving people onto rail and air.

What we need in this country is a politician that has the guts to say I'm going to raise taxes to pay for things now so your kids don't have to pay for them in the future.  We are paying NOW for the deferred cost of previous governments because of this obsession with balanced budgets.  How many times do we hear people say "Why didn't that do that years ago?" because it cost so much more now that borrowing money, paying some interest and building it before its needed - eg The South-East Queensland Water Grid is a classic example!

[ozbob]

ABC The Insiders - Waiting for the train --> http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2012/s3736534.htm

[ozbob]

The Daily Telegraph --> Anthony Albanese's high-speed train dream as absurd as flying cars

[Stillwater]

I think Mr Albanese asked for the report to be prepared not to endorse High Speed Rail, but to show proponents how much it will cost and to start the sort of debate now occurring.  It is also a good way to control the debate.  When the pro-rail lobby asks 'when will you build HSR?', he can say the report is out there for debate and he would appreciate industry feedback etc.  For those worried about cost, he will say federal Labor has accurately costed the project and he would welcome approaches from the superannuation sector etc re funding.

[frereOP]

Simple, what a crock! Have you been watching what has happened in the Eurozone for last 4 years.

Not a crock!  Don't get me wrong, at some stage someone has to pay.  I'm not advocating borrowing money to pay wages or welfare or pay off the interest on borrowings - which is exactly what the US is doing and exactly why the US economy is in worse shape than the PIIGS.

Borrowing to invest in the furture when it returns a profit on that investment (to the economy as a whole and not just the government's accounts) is good economics - be it education, infrastructure or whatever.

My feeling is that politicians need to get real about investing in the future and makig US, not our kids pay for it.  Problem is, I can't ever see any politician advocating higher taxes and charges to achieve it.  This means in the long run, our kids will have to pay a much higher price for what we should have paid for.  It's called "Cost Shifting" and its morally wrong! HSR falls into this category.  Build it now, borrow the money , pay the interest and let future generations reap the benefit.  Don't build it now, and let our kids and theirs pay for our indifference, jut like we are paying for the failures of previous governments.

[#Metro]

There are no benefits to HSR over air. None. It's not faster, It's not cheaper, either for gov't building them or passengers riding them.
With a financial return of 0.8% (wonder how this was calculated - from gov't perspective or from private perspective?) this is a pipedream left for another time.

There, I said it. Move along now. Plenty of things I can think up $100 bn can be spent on. CRR for one...

[frereOP]

There are no benefits to HSR over air. None. It's not faster, It's not cheaper, either for gov't building them or passengers riding them.

Try telling that to the people of Newcastle, Canberra, Albury, Wagga, Coff's Harbour. It will drive regional development, get people out of the cities and make life better for everyone.

[frereOP]

Simple, what a crock! Have you been watching what has happened in the Eurozone for last 4 years.

Not a crock!  Don't get me wrong, at some stage someone has to pay.  I'm not advocating borrowing money to pay wages or welfare or pay off the interest on borrowings - which is exactly what the US is doing and exactly why the US economy is in worse shape than the PIIGS.

Borrowing to invest in the furture when it returns a profit on that investment (to the economy as a whole and not just the government's accounts) is good economics - be it education, infrastructure or whatever.

My feeling is that politicians need to get real about investing in the future and makig US, not our kids pay for it.  Problem is, I can't ever see any politician advocating higher taxes and charges to achieve it.  This means in the long run, our kids will have to pay a much higher price for what we should have paid for.  It's called "Cost Shifting" and its morally wrong! HSR falls into this category.  Build it now, borrow the money , pay the interest and let future generations reap the benefit.  Don't build it now, and let our kids and theirs pay for our indifference, jut like we are paying for the failures of previous governments.

...the difference in letting the next generation paying for it is that it will probably be cheaper per capita at the time with technology development and the viability and hence the costs will be much better with a larger population. It would be Morally Criminal for US to borrow $50-100B to build a piece of non flexible infrastructure.

Rubbish. Japan's Shinkansen has been operating since 1964 and newer technology is doing just fine on the original system. As for the cost, the proposed VFT between Sydney and Melbourne in the early 90's was costed at about $8 Billion. The cost less than 20 years later is estimated at almost 10 times that fort the Sydney-Melbourne leg which is a hell of a lot more than the interest bill would have been on $8billion even taking into account inflation.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Pffttt. The Japs are way behind. Its all about getting maglev trains to Cabulcha and 314 maglev buses!

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 51s

Dutch High-Speed Rail Dream Turns to Disaster | Planetizen: http://shar.es/wNIMn  via @planetizen

[petey3801]

I bet they're regretting going with the V250 instead of something more common like the Alstom TGV product or Siemens products!

[ozbob]

Canberra Times --> Push on to get on board high speed rail link

[ozbob]

ARA --> High Speed Rail must remain on political agenda

[techblitz]

CNN --> Hyperloop vs. world's fastest trains

[Stillwater]

been around for a while, lol
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=pneumatic+tube&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=iL0JUvjAJIvnkAXak4H4AQ&sqi=2&ved=0CGUQsAQ&biw=2336&bih=1264

[Stillwater]

Presumably, each passenger pod would have to have its own air supply for breathing and the pods would have to be sealed for travel within the vacuum tube.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Jarrett Walker ‏@humantransit 6h

Definition #HyperLoop: Hype, moving in a loop, as hype does.

[minbrisbane]

[ozbob]

Musk's Hyperloop math doesn't add up

--> http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/19848/musks-hyperloop-math-doesnt-add-up/