High Speed and Fast Rail

[MaxHeadway]

Do we really need to have the disposable income to buy the latest hand held gadgets and phones every 6 months, or replace our flat screen TV' every 2 years, r to buy useless bling, or might that money be better spent on providing better facilities and services that in the long run will provide a far better return on the investment for the nation as a whole?

This. All the talk about us being a rich country conveniently papers over the fact that we have massive amounts of private wealth, whilst the public realm has been left to rot. Better to talk about the nation as a whole, than to watch it become more and more fragmented.

[Fares_Fair]

With regards to the title of this post ...

Could I please order one for the Sunshine Coast ?
Thank you.

Kind regards,
Fares_Fair.

[#Metro]

This. All the talk about us being a rich country conveniently papers over the fact that we have massive amounts of private wealth, whilst the public realm has been left to rot. Better to talk about the nation as a whole, than to watch it become more and more fragmented.

Just because people can buy things does not prove that they had the money to make the purchase. It could all be on credit card...which it is.
Australians lead the world apparently on private DEBT. http://australia.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/australia-world-credit-card-debt.php

Australians are proud to be leaders when it comes to sporting achievements or new inventions, but the leading position no one wants to hold is that in the race to be the nation with the highest personal debt. Unfortunately for Australia, personal debt Down Under has overtaken even that of the typically credit-hungry U.S., according to Reserve Bank of Australia figures.

To compare Australia's position on the debt leader board to the U.S., each Australian adult is currently in debt to the value of around US$56,000, compared to the debt of American adults of US$44,000. Australians' mortgage, credit card debt and personal loans total over AU$1.2 trillion, which is an increase of 71 per cent from just five years ago.

It is easy to look at China high speed rail and want that, and look at European metros and want that too. But needs, aspirations and wants are different things. For example, Do we need Clem 7 or did the admin of this city want Clem 7?

IMHO the billions proposed would probably be better spent fixing up the bottlenecks in public transport within cities. Getting QR CityTrain to a standard where it could run 15 minutes all day for example. But I will admit, the Federal Government likes to fund national networks (NBN, National Road network etc) and therefore something like HSR might look more appealing to it because it matches that level of government's preference to fund things that are a) national and b) big.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Japan's newest, fastest train debuts

[Stillwater]

That's a fare of 46 cents a kilometre.  At that rate, you would soon reach the daily cap if go-card had one.    Is that a torpedo bay at the front?

[ozbob]

The Wall Street Journal --> On Fast Track to the Future

High-speed trains will continue to resurrect Europe's rail system, says the chairman of France's state operator ...

[ozbob]

From the Railway Gazette click here!

Illinois awarded $1·2bn in high speed rail funding

Illinois awarded $1·2bn in high speed rail funding
24 March 2011

USA: A further grant of $1·2bn in federal funding has been released for high speed rail development on the Chicago – St Louis corridor in Illinois, where work is underway to upgrade the existing Union Pacific line for 177 km/h running.

The previously-negotiated award was confirmed in Chicago on March 22, when the state's Governor Pat Quinn and US Senator Dick Durbin, hosted an event to announce the start of work on the next $685m phase of the upgrading programme, which is scheduled to begin on April 5. 'Illinois has always been a strong railroad state and we always will be', Quinn told the Chicago Tribune.

Upgrading of the 457 km Chicago – St Louis route is expected to cut the end-to-end journey time by 90 min to under 4 h. As well as the $1·2bn in federal funding, the state has agreed to contribute a further $42m.

Last September Quinn and Durbin initiated work on a $98m upgrading of the 145 km between Alton and Lincoln at the southern end of the corridor, 'making Illinois the first state to break ground under the federal initiative to develop a Midwest high-speed rail network'.

The work starting in April will see the Dwight – Lincoln and Alton – St Louis sections relaid with concrete sleepers. Signalling on the Dwight – Alton section will also be modernised. The federally-funded work will be managed by UP, and is expected to generate more than 6 000 direct and indirect jobs. The work is due for completion in 2014, but trains could begin running at 177 km/h between Dwight and Pontiac next year, according to Illinois Department of Transportation.

Illinois has also applied for further grants from the $2·4bn promised for the Orlando – Tampa project but rejected by Florida's Governor Rick Scott; bids for this money must be submitted to federal Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood by April 4. Durbin commented that 'the governors of these other states that have given up their money can stand by and wave at our trains when they go by.'

Meanwhile, Quinn confirmed that studies are underway to look at the feasibility of developing a 350 km/h corridor in Illinois. In December, IDoT began an Environmental Impact Statement to study the potential for a second line between Chicago and St Louis, to identify a preferred route between Chicago and Joliet and look at potential alignments through Springfield. This study is expected to be completed in 2012.

'We are proud to be leaders on a project that will reduce congestion, benefit the environment and spark economic development', said Illinois Transportation Secretary Gary Hannig. 'We will see the returns on our efforts to develop the Chicago – St Louis high speed corridor for years to come.'

[ozbob]

The Melbourne Age --> Planes v fast trains: 'tortoise' and the air

[ozbob]

The New York Times --> How Not to Plan for the Future

[ozbob]

ICE 3 at 300 kmh / 186 mph entering a tunnel

[O_128]

Im soooo jealous 

[Fares_Fair]

... pinch me, I'm dreaming !

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[#Metro]

I see the Sunshine Coast line got an upgrade...

[frereOP]

ICE 3 at 300 kmh / 186 mph entering a tunnel

I love the ICE trains and was on one for 9h from Interlaken in Switzerland to Berlin. It does travel at up to 300KPH but because trains entering tunnels at high speed have a piston effect increasing air pressure within the tunnel with associated effects on human physiology (akin to aircraft altitude pressure effects) and stability issues on the train itself, speeds are often restricted in tunnels.  The Eurostar for instance is limited to about 180kph and this ICE is unlikely to be doing 300kpm but it is still an awesome sight.

[Fares_Fair]

I see the Sunshine Coast line got an upgrade...

you could be right tt, it is, after all a single track as far as I can tell !

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[O_128]

I see the Sunshine Coast line got an upgrade...

you could be right tt, it is, after all a single track as far as I can tell !

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

nup chances are the other track is hidden from view, Germans arent idiots, as well as this die to the piston nature each track needs its own tunnel.

[ozbob]

Technica --> 83% of Americans Think More Money Should Go to High Speed Rail

[johnnigh]

Technica --> 83% of Americans Think More Money Should Go to High Speed Rail

When did we ever think that 83% of any population knows anything about what they are emotionally charged by?

High speed rail is sexy, cool, etc etc, but for Australia it's a million miles behind investment in reliable and high-enough speed freight rail. We've got to get beyond the era on inter-city freight rail services as fuel prices and the road toll ramp up in coming years.

High speed rail is again a million miles behind efficient metropolitan rail-based commuter systems required by all our cities.

So let's forget about what they can do in China with 1.5bn people to shuffle around and in Europe where the EU can do the subsidy thing as the European experiment goes down the financial plughole.

No high speed rail for Australia until we have freight and commuters safely on rail!! 

All you train-spotters can take your holidays in China and get your kicks there. 

[#Metro]

When I think about it, I'm not so sure about HSR.

For 40 billion dollars, we could get so much public transport fixed up in the capital cities. Things like frequent bus services, fix up our train systems to run more trains (both in the peak and counter peak direction), eliminate single track sections, Cross River Rail, get state of the art train signaling to maximise capacity, separate freight from passenger services (Brisbane), finally perform some maintainence on the truly dilapidated freight rail system, do up the Sunshine coast line, and so on.

That will increase economic activity and reduce carbon emissions much more than a HSR would. People flying planes can afford to pay- a lot of people are on business or going on holiday. Carbon offsets and Carbon pollution reduction schemes can take care of the environmental side of things.

There is no point in buying a Ferrari just because next door has one. The passenger and MOBILITY should be the focus, not what big engineering and consulting companies' vested interests for their profit margin and shareholders want.

When is my train frequency going to be fixed up and the QR Train system actually fixed up so that it doesn't freeze when 15 minute trains are run at the same time??? Our train system is so impotent!!

[Fares_Fair]

Fully agree tt,

To talk about high speed rail to the Sunshine Coast is an insult to anyone's intelligence, given the current status quo.
We are not interested in 50 years time - when the government cannot provide a decent (read frequent) service now.
There is soooo much potential right there just waiting to be utilised once duplication occurs.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

No high speed rail for Australia until we have freight and commuters safely on rail!! 

All you train-spotters can take your holidays in China and get your kicks there. 

Fully agree with this one.

[Stillwater]

Queensland has a 'Ferrari train' of sorts -- it is the Tilt Train, but we run it over a goat track equivalent railway line so that it rarely travels at its top speed capability and only for a fraction of the journey between Brisbane and Cairns.  Watch the pollies talk about fast trains and their maximum speeds.  (They love cracking a bottle of champagne against a train set with a slick paint job, but a pic opportunity with rock and rails is less sexy.)  Silence on track condition and poor alignment.

[#Metro]

Oh, I have been on that train. I took the plane back to Brisbane...
I don't think I will use that train again. Flying is both cheaper and faster IMHO.

It has high speed capability but it goes no faster than QR CityTrain on the suburban network. In fact, I think the Gold Coast Express between Beenleigh and Ormeau goes faster.

The current infrastructure needs to be fixed up. People will pay for good, fast service. It is a shame that current assets are not in a state where they can be well used. Good service in turn builds patronage which in turn builds frequency. If you serve your customers something not up to scratch, then you will go bankrupt. It's very simple.

[Stillwater]

The new Tilt Sunlander will get its speed from the on-board technology, but not from improved track or alignment.  http://www.qutnews.com/2010/10/27/high-speed-trains-for-sunlander-service/

[Stillwater]

Driver's view of journey Yandina to Nambour.  Note the speeds and curves on approach to Nambour station.

[frereOP]

Driver's view of journey Yandina to Nambour.  Note the speeds and curves on approach to Nambour station.

Methinks this vid is in the wrong forum!  I'm not sure which was more painful, the train trip or the music!

And now for the train experience of your life.  I've been on this line in a TGV but only, yes ONLY 310 kph!:-

[ozbob]

PR Newswire --> Midwest High Speed Rail Network Could Bring 43 Million Annual Riders, 104,000 New Jobs and Nearly $300 Billion in New Business Sales Over 30 Years

[colinw]

It has high speed capability but it goes no faster than QR CityTrain on the suburban network. In fact, I think the Gold Coast Express between Beenleigh and Ormeau goes faster.

As I posted elsewhere on this board, the highest average speed out of Brisbane of any service is actually the Westlander over the 112 km or so from Roma St to Helidon, and that includes the suburban run to Ipswich and the slow bit from Grandchester to Laidley.  Rather embarrassing actually, and not something that I expect to see publicised.

Westlander Roma St to Helidon: 75.5 km/h average
Tilt to Yandina (same distance as Helidon): 67.87 km/h average
Varsity Lakes interurban: 66 km/h average
Cooroy interurban to Yandina (old timetable): 55 km/h average

To be fair, the Tilt does stretch its legs quite well north of Marborough West and Bundaberg.  There are some average speeds over long distances well over the 100 km/h up there.  The Tilt is badly let down by poor alignment between Caboolture & Maryborough West, just as the Gold Coast service is hampered by the Beenleigh line.

Shows just how bad the alignment out of Brisbane on the NCL really is (and also the untapped potential for a decent service to Laidley, Gatton, Helidon and bus to Toowoomba).  The duplication from Caboolture to Beerburrum has done little to help either.

Seems to me like we need less focus on sexy political tilt trains, and more on building a modern network rather than stringing wires over a 19th century one.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Its also a very very stupid idea to run the Tilts faster than the Suburbans on the Brisbane stretch of the NCL. They catch all station express services at an incrediable speed as it is now. Alone they are about 25-27 mins faster than the all stations Roma Street-Caboolture services. The track can also not handle the trains going any faster. They could absolutly run them faster Virginia-Geebung/Zillmere, Carseldine-Lawnton, Petrie-Caboolture but add in the level crossings and you don't really want a train going any faster than the suburbans do on approach. Then there is passenger risks at stations, people tresspassing on the track, signaling (Following yellows from other services) and what not. Its just a shame that the Tilts have to wait so long before they can open the throttle.

RS-CAB
TT - 37-40mins
Cooroy/Gympie exp - 50mins
Caboolture/Nambour exp - 54-58mins (The midday/late night Nambour exp does it in about 48-50 mins due to a clear track)
Caboolture All Stations - 1h6mins

[frereOP]

Its also a very very stupid idea to run the Tilts faster than the Suburbans on the Brisbane stretch of the NCL...

...Then there is passenger risks at stations,

I have been standing on Watford Junction Station less than 2m from a Virgin Rail Pendolino train as it passed through the station at about 200kph.  If they can do it in the UK then it shouldn't be an issue here either.  If someone wants to jump in front of a train (and I've been on one when it happened) they will jump whether it's a Tilt, suburban or freight train and what's more, they will make a mess whatever the train is.

[Arnz]

To be fair, the Tilt does stretch its legs quite well north of Marborough West and Bundaberg.  There are some average speeds over long distances well over the 100 km/h up there.  The Tilt is badly let down by poor alignment between Caboolture & Maryborough West, just as the Gold Coast service is hampered by the Beenleigh line.

That should be between Beerburrum and Maryborough West .  Caboolture-Beerburrum is 160km/h for tilts before it gets hampered with 80-100km/h curves (To be fair Glasshouse-Landsborough is also 150-160km/h for Tilts - 120km/h for suburbans).

[somebody]

Its also a very very stupid idea to run the Tilts faster than the Suburbans on the Brisbane stretch of the NCL...

...Then there is passenger risks at stations,

I have been standing on Watford Junction Station less than 2m from a Virgin Rail Pendolino train as it passed through the station at about 200kph.  If they can do it in the UK then it shouldn't be an issue here either.  If someone wants to jump in front of a train (and I've been on one when it happened) they will jump whether it's a Tilt, suburban or freight train and what's more, they will make a mess whatever the train is.

The Acela train in the US is similar.

I'm supportive of arrangements which result in a "protected" track though, and I think Salisbury-Kuraby should have achieved this.

[ozbob]

THE SACRAMENTO BEE --> Editorial: Plug plug on high-speed rail?  Why?

[frereOP]

THE SACRAMENTO BEE --> Editorial: Plug plug on high-speed rail?  Why?

We all hear politicians say "what is the cost and where is the money coming from?"  for thee kinds of projects but the real question should be "What is the cost of NOT doing it".  In this case the cost of congestion, road trauma, road damage, fossil fuel consumption and the list goes on.  The community seems happy to pay for these costs because they are hidden.

How much fuel is burned sitting in traffic jams and yet motorists are still happy to use their cars to get to work then complain about the cost of fuel.  It makes no sense so lets increase taxes and spend that money addressing these issues because in the long run it will be cheaper for all of us!

[frereOP]

Does anyone know when the interim report on HSR in Australia will be released? Must be soon.

[ozbob]

http://australiandesignreview.com/news/23082-HASSELL-designs-high-speed-rail-HASSELL

HASSELL designs high-speed rail

The design team at HASSELL has revealed its conceptual design for an Australian high-speed rail system that would connect the country's capital and regional cities.

The concept for the Australian High Speed Vehicle (A-HSV) has been drawn up in response to the ongoing national discussion on the potential environmental, economical and social benefits of investing in a national rail network.

The train's form is "inspired by the brut lines of the iconic Australian speed machine, the 1960s HK Monaro," with spacious open-plan seating and private berths for meetings or luxury travel provided for inside the double-decker train. A dining/lounge bar and convenience store have also been integrated into the design.

Travelling at 400km/hr, the A-HSV would take under three hours to travel from Melbourne to Sydney and offer a competitive alternative transport option to air and road travel, as well as providing more transport connections to growing regional cities. The design team also suggest the A-HSV would reduce congestion, open up housing choice and affordability, and boost national productivity.

Offering a low-carbon transport alternative, the A-HSV would emit an estimated 4kg of carbon dioxide per 100 passenger kilometres – compared with 14kg/passenger-km for cars and 17kg/passenger-km for planes.

HASSELL design team Mark Loughnan, Harley Vincent, Piers Van Zandvliet, Steven Paul, Jack Crocker, Jean-Paul Ghougassian

[Stillwater]

Indulgent hyperbole -- fairy floss for the eyes

[#Metro]

There's a lot of focus on the vehicle and the concrete- much less focus on the service and how to fund it (or what alternatives the money might be spent on).

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Move over airlines, trains number one with a bullet

[Stillwater]

Statistics are sobering:
$31 billion Australian dollars to build (some would say it would cost cheaper if built by WA government)
1318km long
90 trains a day
80 million passengers a year
Beijing city terminus located 6km from the city centre