Rail Upgrade Zones

[#Metro]

Increase the frequency and they will come

For the Gold Coast Line:
Upgrade service to every 15 minutes for the Gold Coast Line 6am-11pm, extra services during the peak hour (every 5 min perhaps?).
Perth has a line with a frequency like this- Joondalup IIRC.

For Ipswich Line
Every 15 minutes from Ipswich (2 tier express timetable like the GC line)

[ozbob]

Caboolture line as well for 15 minutes, although may be a bit difficult ...

[Arnz]

Increase the frequency and they will come

For the Gold Coast Line:
Upgrade service to every 15 minutes for the Gold Coast Line 6am-11pm, extra services during the peak hour (every 5 min perhaps?).
Perth has a line with a frequency like this- Joondalup IIRC.

Peak every 5 minutes is WAYYYY too extreme and there is also capacity issues with the Beenleigh line.  Also, Shorncliffe carries more peak passengers than the Gold Coast Line according to the last patronage report.   GC's patronage figures is only ahead of Nambour-Gympie, Rosewood, Doomben and Tennyson (in that order).

A lot of other lines would be ahead of GC in regards to the 15 minutes off-peak increase.

[O_128]

i dont think its fair that an intercity line should get 15 min before others. start with ipswich and caboolture then beeneigh and ferny grove and then Shorncliffe and cleveland then possibly gold coast and airport/doomben with 2 trains going to each.also this will have to be done with a complete new timetable not wedging more services in like current.

[somebody]

i dont think its fair that an intercity line should get 15 min before others. start with ipswich and caboolture then beeneigh and ferny grove and then Shorncliffe and cleveland then possibly gold coast and airport/doomben with 2 trains going to each.also this will have to be done with a complete new timetable not wedging more services in like current.

But Ipswich already has 15 minute frequency until 7pm on weekdays as far as Corinda.  Are you saying that this should be upgraded first?

I agree that the GC line is behind Ippy,Cab,Beenleigh,Cleveland and Shorncliffe.  The frequency really is excellent at present for the length of the corridor.

EDIT: Compare the frequency and journey times to the Nambour line.  Not too sure if there's much fat in the GC line's, but I think it is clear that there is fat in the Caboolture line's timetable north of Petrie.

EDIT: Also, upping the frequency on the GC line would require a lot of infrastructure investment.  All other lines can get increased frequency without infrastructure investment.  Combine that with the patronage, and I think it's the line which is about the least deserving of a service upgrade from the present situation, with the possible exception of an extension of the duration of the peak direction 15 minute frequency.

Caboolture line as well for 15 minutes, although may be a bit difficult ...

Why would it be difficult?  You have 3 tracks as far as Lawnton, so the freight excuse doesn't wash, especially for 15 minute frequency to Petrie.

BTW, didn't I already start a thread on this: http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3131.0

[STB]

Don't forget to throw in Traveltrain movements, unit testing (it's a corridor used to test new units and refurbished units), tuition movements etc.  Trust me, I've been there done that and seen the network movements on the train diagram.  

As Robert suggests, it's actually not as easy as some might think.  For example, what may work between Petrie and Caboolture, may not work between Petrie and Northgate, or what may work between Caboolture and Northgate, may not work within the inner city area.  A minimum of 5 minutes clearence needs to be given between Petrie and Caboolture, 4 minutes clearence between Petrie and Bowen Hills, and while not ideal, you can get away with 2 minutes clearence from Bowen Hills to Roma Street.  Freights and Traveltrain services actually need a much higher clearence between electric services, generally an additional 3-5 minutes minimum added to the standard safe clearence.

15 minute services should be able to be done between Petrie and Caboolture quite easily, between Petrie and Northgate, one would need to work out if movements occur on the mains or on the middle road, as soon as either is taken out, you effectively have single line running between Northgate and Lawnton, either on the middle road (if up trains ran on the middle road) or on the Up Main (if up trains ran on that line).  Then you have to factor in the flow on effect on other services arriving at Northgate, Eagle Junction and the Inner City area.

Additionally, you need to factor in the arrival and departure times at Caboolture, if you intend on using Platform 1 and 2 for clearence for North Coast services (freights, passenger, traveltrain), and Platform 3 for surburban turnbacks.  To get to Platform 3 Caboolture, requires going from Down Main (continues to Platform 1 Caboolture) to the turnout (Platform 3 Caboolture), crossing the Up Main (Platform 2 Caboolture), so any conflicts would need to be avoided when that move occurs.

[somebody]

Don't forget to throw in Traveltrain movements, unit testing (it's a corridor used to test new units and refurbished units), tuition movements etc.  Trust me, I've been there done that and seen the network movements on the train diagram.  

As Robert suggests, it's actually not as easy as some might think.  For example, what may work between Petrie and Caboolture, may not work between Petrie and Northgate, or what may work between Caboolture and Northgate, may not work within the inner city area.  A minimum of 5 minutes clearence needs to be given between Petrie and Caboolture, 4 minutes clearence between Petrie and Bowen Hills, and while not ideal, you can get away with 2 minutes clearence from Bowen Hills to Roma Street.  Freights and Traveltrain services actually need a much higher clearence between electric services, generally an additional 3-5 minutes minimum added to the standard safe clearence.

15 minute services should be able to be done between Petrie and Caboolture quite easily, between Petrie and Northgate, one would need to work out if movements occur on the mains or on the middle road, as soon as either is taken out, you effectively have single line running between Northgate and Lawnton, either on the middle road (if up trains ran on the middle road) or on the Up Main (if up trains ran on that line).  Then you have to factor in the flow on effect on other services arriving at Northgate, Eagle Junction and the Inner City area.

Additionally, you need to factor in the arrival and departure times at Caboolture, if you intend on using Platform 1 and 2 for clearence for North Coast services (freights, passenger, traveltrain), and Platform 3 for surburban turnbacks.  To get to Platform 3 Caboolture, requires going from Down Main (continues to Platform 1 Caboolture) to the turnout (Platform 3 Caboolture), crossing the Up Main (Platform 2 Caboolture), so any conflicts would need to be avoided when that move occurs.

Yes, of course there are also Nambour trains.  Does unit testing and tuition need to occur here?  I'd think the Cleveland line would have a lot of spare capacity.  And there's always the quad tracks to Corinda.

I would think that running on the mains for the local services is the only sensible option.  That would leave the middle road for freights, travel train services, Nambour services (if they need to use it) and other purposes.  But something probably needs to be done about the arrangements between Virginia and Northgate.  You should be able to get to/from the middle road to the mains at Northgate without conflicting moves.  I'm not sure I like the arrangements at Caboolture, but they're probably adequate for now.

[#Metro]

Peak every 5 minutes is WAYYYY too extreme and there is also capacity issues with the Beenleigh line.  Also, Shorncliffe carries more peak passengers than the Gold Coast Line according to the last patronage report.   GC's patronage figures is only ahead of Nambour-Gympie, Rosewood, Doomben and Tennyson (in that order).

Extreme? Well they happily do it in Perth. High Frequency is orthodoxyover there.
I've proposed the GC line first as I think it has lots to gain. The land around the lines are generally vacant, if TL were savvy enough to acquire these empty farmland-style land it could build TODs or onsell to developers/ULDA and recapture the expenses of putting more trains on through these sales (and stamp duties etc).

GC line might also have the most to gain as there could be a shift away from the volumes and volumes Freeway users who travel to Brisbane in that way. There is also the overcrowding- standing for a whole hour and a bit with no seat! With other lines the agony is over much quicker.

But as others have suggested, 15 min off peak all the way to Ipswich might be a good idea too, especially with Anna's "decentralisation". I'm sure people will debate which line should go first, which is welcome,  but I think there is general agreement that generally upping the frequency is something needed.

Understandably there are challenges and constraints, but that's why we pay the Government and QANGOS like TL to solve these issues and pay for upgrades.

[Jon Bryant]

I propose an approach to deciding where to start based on the overall number of trips along a route and where PT has the lowest % of those trips.  Not sure which line that means.

[stephenk]

Increase the frequency and they will come
For the Gold Coast Line:
Upgrade service to every 15 minutes for the Gold Coast Line 6am-11pm, extra services during the peak hour (every 5 min perhaps?).
Perth has a line with a frequency like this- Joondalup IIRC.

With current infrastructure the Gold Coast Line cannot run 15min off-peak, and cannot run 5min peak services. In fact for the latter, approx. $6b in infrastructure will need to be spent.

Please do some research before hitting the post button.

[#Metro]

Ok, so it is not going to happen overnight. But it can be done. Just not in Queensland!!!

Joondalup Line

Esplanade Station
7:50 AM
7:55 AM *
8:00 AM
8:05 AM*
8:10 AM
8:15 AM*
8:20 AM
8:25 AM
8:30 AM
8:35 AM
8:40 AM
8:45 AM*
8:50 AM
8:55 AM
9:00 AM

* Express past Greenwood Stn, terminate at Whitfords.

And add to that, TransPerth is trialling LIVE train timetables (presumably what one sees on a PID at say Central).
http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/TimetablesMaps/LiveTrainTimes/tabid/436/Default.aspx

[Arnz]

It can be done. Just not in Queensland!!!

Joondalup Line

WA might have the money and/or financial situation to borrow billions on infrastructure.  Qld on the other hand is broke.

Meanwhile while we're at it, lets just pull the trains out of nowhere and run 15 min off-peak services on all current infrastructure (railway lines especially those with only single track) and current staffing levels   .  It takes time to improve services.  New Trains and Staff cannot be simply pulled out of thin air.

Edit: Also contrary to popular belief, other forumers from the Gold Coast on other Transport sites (Skyscrapercity, ATDB, Railpage) would like to dispute the "overcrowding" on the Gold Coast Line, which they had said that "overcrowding" and "Bombay Express" exagarration is blown out of proportion and that there are seats still available at Beenleigh.

[ozbob]

When I spoke with the Gold Coast Bulletin I explained to them the definition of overcrowding (pax standing for longer than 20 minutes) does distort the actual reality.  For example Gold Coast Trains carrying 600 to 700 pax in from Beenleigh are by the definition 'over loaded' when they are technically not in terms of pax capacity.  On long haul runs there will be pax standing for longer than 20 minutes.

One of our members has made this comment:

The concept of overcrowding where people are required to stand for more than 20 minutes seems to be one that has been accepted generally. I first heard this in early 1974 at a conference hosted by the Australian Institute of Design Engineers held in Brisbane where some visiting engineers from England gave this concept when looking at the design of rollingstock for the London area.

Today however, another concept that I have looked at as far as rail is concerned is where through crowding in aisles and vestibules creates a problem with entraining and detraining passengers such that delays are caused to the running of the train. In this case, the train should be considered to be overcrowded at this point.

To me this seems to be a more realistic situation as then the trigger to investigate individual instances at stations and should allow a more proactive look at not only problem services, but problem locations and service intervals.

This comes back to the issue of service frequency in both peak and non-peak periods as well as extra services for special events.

This type of crowding assessment can also be readily applied to all forms of transport.

Trying to get QR and Translink to accept this is going to be a real effort.

[ozbob]

Full details of the Citytrain fleet can be found here --> http://www.citytrain.com.au/about/fleet/fleet.asp

[stephenk]

Ok, so it is not going to happen overnight. But it can be done. Just not in Queensland!!!

Joondalup Line

Esplanade Station
7:50 AM
7:55 AM *
8:00 AM
8:05 AM*
8:10 AM
8:15 AM*
8:20 AM
8:25 AM
8:30 AM
8:35 AM
8:40 AM
8:45 AM*
8:50 AM
8:55 AM
9:00 AM

* Express past Greenwood Stn, terminate at Whitfords.

And add to that, TransPerth is trialling LIVE train timetables (presumably what one sees on a PID at say Central).
http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/TimetablesMaps/LiveTrainTimes/tabid/436/Default.aspx

So that line in Perth is running 12tph. In Brisbane, 19tph cross the Merivale Bridge. So your point is? 

[O_128]

Ok, so it is not going to happen overnight. But it can be done. Just not in Queensland!!!

Joondalup Line

Esplanade Station
7:50 AM
7:55 AM *
8:00 AM
8:05 AM*
8:10 AM
8:15 AM*
8:20 AM
8:25 AM
8:30 AM
8:35 AM
8:40 AM
8:45 AM*
8:50 AM
8:55 AM
9:00 AM

* Express past Greenwood Stn, terminate at Whitfords.

And add to that, TransPerth is trialling LIVE train timetables (presumably what one sees on a PID at say Central).
http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/TimetablesMaps/LiveTrainTimes/tabid/436/Default.aspx

So that line in Perth is running 12tph. In Brisbane, 19tph cross the Merivale Bridge. So your point is? 

perth really seems on the ball most of there lines are being extended also the joondalup line was seperated in 2005 which allows more services. i read somewhere that on a percentage useage perth has more public transport  useage than new york.

[#Metro]

Meanwhile while we're at it, lets just pull the trains out of nowhere and run 15 min off-peak services on all current infrastructure (railway lines especially those with only single track) and current staffing levels  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes .  It takes time to improve services.  New Trains and Staff cannot be simply pulled out of thin air.

Don't worry. More $$$ is coming in January!
And I did say that it wouldn't happen overnight (but it has to start somewhere).
While peak hour might struggle (but there are more trains coming correct?) there should be more than enough for at least some improvements to off peak.

So that line in Perth is running 12tph. In Brisbane, 19tph cross the Merivale Bridge. So your point is?  Wink

My point is that Perth has set a strong precedent; We should take steps to do it too. Sure it is hard, might cost more money, but we should aim to improve rail services from the 1970's standard. And especially when there have been a decade's worth of huge improvement to bus services (5 busways and BUZ) from scratch. We pay gov to deliver services, not tell us that it is too hard to do.
Bring on the second river crossing. If there is space via Tennyson, then perhaps that will have to do. TL gets paid to work these things out.

[Jon Bryant]

There is never a shortage of funds for freeways and tunnels that actually create more congestion

[STB]

Don't forget to throw in Traveltrain movements, unit testing (it's a corridor used to test new units and refurbished units), tuition movements etc.  Trust me, I've been there done that and seen the network movements on the train diagram.  

As Robert suggests, it's actually not as easy as some might think.  For example, what may work between Petrie and Caboolture, may not work between Petrie and Northgate, or what may work between Caboolture and Northgate, may not work within the inner city area.  A minimum of 5 minutes clearence needs to be given between Petrie and Caboolture, 4 minutes clearence between Petrie and Bowen Hills, and while not ideal, you can get away with 2 minutes clearence from Bowen Hills to Roma Street.  Freights and Traveltrain services actually need a much higher clearence between electric services, generally an additional 3-5 minutes minimum added to the standard safe clearence.

15 minute services should be able to be done between Petrie and Caboolture quite easily, between Petrie and Northgate, one would need to work out if movements occur on the mains or on the middle road, as soon as either is taken out, you effectively have single line running between Northgate and Lawnton, either on the middle road (if up trains ran on the middle road) or on the Up Main (if up trains ran on that line).  Then you have to factor in the flow on effect on other services arriving at Northgate, Eagle Junction and the Inner City area.

Additionally, you need to factor in the arrival and departure times at Caboolture, if you intend on using Platform 1 and 2 for clearence for North Coast services (freights, passenger, traveltrain), and Platform 3 for surburban turnbacks.  To get to Platform 3 Caboolture, requires going from Down Main (continues to Platform 1 Caboolture) to the turnout (Platform 3 Caboolture), crossing the Up Main (Platform 2 Caboolture), so any conflicts would need to be avoided when that move occurs.

Yes, of course there are also Nambour trains.  Does unit testing and tuition need to occur here?  I'd think the Cleveland line would have a lot of spare capacity.  And there's always the quad tracks to Corinda.

I would think that running on the mains for the local services is the only sensible option.  That would leave the middle road for freights, travel train services, Nambour services (if they need to use it) and other purposes.  But something probably needs to be done about the arrangements between Virginia and Northgate.  You should be able to get to/from the middle road to the mains at Northgate without conflicting moves.  I'm not sure I like the arrangements at Caboolture, but they're probably adequate for now.

Yes, when a service is overhauled, then a 500km run is needed for it to pass the test, before it's allowed back in revenue service.  The corridor needs to be as long and as straight as possible to reduce the number of turnbacks needed to meet the 500km run, hence why the Caboolture/Ipswich corridor is used for this purpose, it also needs it's own track to run on, away from the normal timetabled services in the event of a failure.  Cleveland isn't appropriate for this type of run, and is therefore never used.

Tuitions need to occur on every line, drivers and guards need to pass testing and have knowledge on every run, they generally have a timetable, however, it's actually a Control Day of Operation movement, ie: the Tutor Drivers talk with Control for their tuition requirments.  Hence, despite having an actual scheduled timetable, they very rarely run to it.

Any non-scheduled timetabled service (Daily Trains rather than the Master Trains) are not meant to interfere or delay any scheduled service.

The only problem with using the middle road (MR) is that once a train is on it, no other train can use it until it reaches the other end.  Eg: If a train is running on the MR from Northgate to Petrie, no other train can use the MR until that train reaches Petrie.  It's treated as a single line running service.  The only other time the trains can use the MR if a train is already using the MR is after the train using the MR moves to the mains at Geebung.  You can have multiple trains on the MR, heading in the same direction, but there must be no opposing trains using the MR at the time.

[somebody]

The only problem with using the middle road (MR) is that once a train is on it, no other train can use it until it reaches the other end.  Eg: If a train is running on the MR from Northgate to Petrie, no other train can use the MR until that train reaches Petrie.  It's treated as a single line running service.  The only other time the trains can use the MR if a train is already using the MR is after the train using the MR moves to the mains at Geebung.  You can have multiple trains on the MR, heading in the same direction, but there must be no opposing trains using the MR at the time.

Obviously you can't have opposing services on the MR at the same time.  Do the unscheduled/Nambour/freight/TravelTrain services exceed the MR's capacity?

[O_128]

for a start why not do tuitions on weekends?

[#Metro]

Tuitions need to occur on every line, drivers and guards need to pass testing and have knowledge on every run, they generally have a timetable, however, it's actually a Control Day of Operation movement, ie: the Tutor Drivers talk with Control for their tuition requirments.  Hence, despite having an actual scheduled timetable, they very rarely run to it.

Why not buy a simulator? Aircraft operators use this method.
What do they do in other states/overseas?

[O_128]

Ok, so it is not going to happen overnight. But it can be done. Just not in Queensland!!!

Joondalup Line

Esplanade Station
7:50 AM
7:55 AM *
8:00 AM
8:05 AM*
8:10 AM
8:15 AM*
8:20 AM
8:25 AM
8:30 AM
8:35 AM
8:40 AM
8:45 AM*
8:50 AM
8:55 AM
9:00 AM

* Express past Greenwood Stn, terminate at Whitfords.

And add to that, TransPerth is trialling LIVE train timetables (presumably what one sees on a PID at say Central).
http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/TimetablesMaps/LiveTrainTimes/tabid/436/Default.aspx

So that line in Perth is running 12tph. In Brisbane, 19tph cross the Merivale Bridge. So your point is? 

i think the point is that the beenleigh,gold coast and cleveland lines run 19tph combined yet if we had that kind of frequency the bridge would have to handle 36tph. we either the tunnel or bridge now so we can have a timetable like perth not the current erratic one.

[#Metro]

i think the point is that the beenleigh,gold coast and cleveland lines run 19tph combined

Merivale Bridge was opened in 1978 (hmm, yet another indication that we still think it is 1979?) by Sir Joh. I can't think of another major rail bridge that has been opened to the CBD since then...

So there does need to be an alternative entry portal into the city. After all, Gateway Bridge opened in 1986 and is now getting a duplication. And then there is Hale st, Goodwill (bikes/people) and Go Betweens (bikes/people). So that cross river rail is long overdue and very important.

[somebody]

i think the point is that the beenleigh,gold coast and cleveland lines run 19tph combined yet if we had that kind of frequency the bridge would have to handle 36tph. we either the tunnel or bridge now so we can have a timetable like perth not the current erratic one.

But the infrastructure constraints do not cause the erratic timetable.

[O_128]

i think the point is that the beenleigh,gold coast and cleveland lines run 19tph combined

Merivale Bridge was opened in 1978 (hmm, yet another indication that we still think it is 1979?) by Sir Joh. I can't think of another major rail bridge that has been opened to the CBD since then...

So there does need to be an alternative entry portal into the city. After all, Gateway Bridge opened in 1986 and is now getting a duplication. And then there is Hale st, Goodwill (bikes/people) and Go Betweens (bikes/people). So that cross river rail is long overdue and very important.

how hard can it be to build  a new bridge really? in perth there is a DUAL track bridge across the river to serve just one station [freemantle]
i still cant get around what the planners were thinking building the bridge as a dual track in the first place.

[Jon Bryant]

Minimizing cost so that more could be spent on freeways no doubt.  The issue with duplicating the bridge is the conflicts on the northern side.  Is that right?

[stephenk]

i read somewhere that on a percentage useage perth has more public transport  useage than new york.

Yet again, please do not quote incorrect facts if you cannot back them up!

Percentage of commuters using public transport:
New York 54%
Perth 19%
Brisbane 18%

Percentage of commuters using cars:
Perth 63%
Brisbane 57%

Sources: AAMI Survey 2008, US Census Bureau 2006

how hard can it be to build  a new bridge really? in perth there is a DUAL track bridge across the river to serve just one station [freemantle]

Again, please try and get your facts right! Google is your friend  

The passenger railway to Fremantle opened in 1881, and once travelled another 4km or so south of Fremantle with more stations. There is also a dockyard in Fremantle that generated quite a bit of rail freight traffic.

[stephenk]

Minimizing cost so that more could be spent on freeways no doubt.  The issue with duplicating the bridge is the conflicts on the northern side.  Is that right?

Duplicating the Merivale bridge was ruled out in the Inner City Rail Capacity Study for many reasons including property acquisitions and operational issues.

[#Metro]

I don't really mind whether it is a bridge, a tunnel, a combination of both or something yet un thought of.
There should still be capacity outside peak hour to increase the frequency though.

If the GC line is too hard, then the Ipswich line should be next in the campaign to up the frequency.
More Trains, More Often.

And I'd like to add Hong Kong to the list, where it is stated that over 90% of daily journeys are made on Public Transport.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Hong_Kong

[O_128]

i read somewhere that on a percentage useage perth has more public transport  useage than new york.

Yet again, please do not quote incorrect facts if you cannot back them up!

Percentage of commuters using public transport:
New York 54%
Perth 19%
Brisbane 18%

Percentage of commuters using cars:
Perth 63%
Brisbane 57%

Sources: AAMI Survey 2008, US Census Bureau 2006

how hard can it be to build  a new bridge really? in perth there is a DUAL track bridge across the river to serve just one station [freemantle]

Again, please try and get your facts right! Google is your friend  

The passenger railway to Fremantle opened in 1881, and once travelled another 4km or so south of Fremantle with more stations. There is also a dockyard in Fremantle that generated quite a bit of rail freight traffic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzENECOgaF4&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymXMS97wQZQ&feature=player_embedded

its in one of these

[Arnz]

If the GC line is too hard, then the Ipswich line should be next in the campaign to up the frequency.
More Trains, More Often.

GC line should be way down the list in regards to your campaign.  If you apply the "population potential" to your list, then the completion of Springfield, CAMCOS (Sunshine Coast corridor), or even Kippa-Ring would be up there, the later 2 having potential to jump ahead in priority based on their populations.

Edit: Removing redundant sentence I had said earlier.

[#Metro]

Good point. Point taken.
But these lines should be being built. And it could be funded through the development of the adjacent land (sales, developer contributions, land taxes).

So. It is looking like Ipswich line is the rank #1...

[somebody]

So. It is looking like Ipswich line is the rank #1...

As I mentioned in the other thread though, it already has 15 minute frequency weekdays until 7pm or so.  So are you saying that the times this applies to should be extended or what?

[O_128]

If the GC line is too hard, then the Ipswich line should be next in the campaign to up the frequency.
More Trains, More Often.

GC line should be way down the list in regards to your campaign.  If you apply the "population potential" to your list, then the completion of Springfield, CAMCOS (Sunshine Coast corridor), or even Kippa-Ring would be up there, the later 2 having potential to jump ahead in priority based on their populations.

Edit: Removing redundant sentence I had said earlier.

just something random with camcos. i personally think that there needs to be a link so that camcos can run through to gold coast and include the airport.

[Derwan]

Why not buy a simulator? Aircraft operators use this method.

They have a simulator:  http://www.derwan.com/photography/photo.asp?Photo=492

I guess they need a certain amount of time in a "real" train too. 

[#Metro]

As I mentioned in the other thread though, it already has 15 minute frequency weekdays until 7pm or so.  So are you saying that the times this applies to should be extended or what?

Hmm. Let's see.
Ipswich to City, weekday

From 8am onwards it is two trains per hour to Central, with an additional service between 2:00 and 2:59 pm.

City to Ipswich, weekday

From about 4pm, the frequency picks up and then goes back to 2tph after 7pm.

This might also be a wider planning issue. I've read that the Paris system works so well because much of the density is located in precincts at the edge of the city. Except for Brisbane this means Chermside, Garden City, Carindale and Indooroopilly are all well away from rail stations (or at least for Indro, are off alignment).

Perhaps you were thinking the Central to Corinda section of the line. This is 15 minutes off peak. And how well used it is.
I think a trial should be pursued; BUZ services show that it can work but QR might have a bit of apprehension in not realising that latent demand can be induced by putting on more services.

[skippy]

No problem with providing a reasonable service for commuters electing to travel 90km each way from the Gold Coast (eg. 15 min peak, 30min off peak) however we should be encouraging people to live closer to work / education etc. Also the shorter the journey the more critical frequency is. A 20 minute wait for a 90km/1.5 hour trip is bearable, however a 20 minute wait for a 5km/10 minute trip is a real deterent. Therefore my vote for initial frequency upgrade is for the stations within say a 15-20km radius of the CBD, excluding Doomben line due to incompatible land use and lack of patronage potential.

Initially CBD to
- Darra (end of continuous urban development)
- Ferny Grove
- Petrie
- Manly

followed by
- Kuaraby (need the CRR tunnel I suspect for this)
- Shorncliffe

[stephenk]

followed by
- Kuaraby (need the CRR tunnel I suspect for this)

The tunnel is not required for 15min off-peak services to Kuraby. It just requires a complete re-write of the timetables on the suburban lines.

[somebody]

Perhaps you were thinking the Central to Corinda section of the line.

Yes.  So you want the 15 minute frequency trains extended all the way to Ipswich then.  I personally think the Virginia-Petrie stretch would be more of a priority.

No problem with providing a reasonable service for commuters electing to travel 90km each way from the Gold Coast (eg. 15 min peak, 30min off peak) however we should be encouraging people to live closer to work / education etc. Also the shorter the journey the more critical frequency is. A 20 minute wait for a 90km/1.5 hour trip is bearable, however a 20 minute wait for a 5km/10 minute trip is a real deterent. Therefore my vote for initial frequency upgrade is for the stations within say a 15-20km radius of the CBD, excluding Doomben line due to incompatible land use and lack of patronage potential.

Initially CBD to
- Darra (end of continuous urban development)
- Ferny Grove
- Petrie
- Manly

followed by
- Kuaraby (need the CRR tunnel I suspect for this)
- Shorncliffe

I agree, but the problem is that there isn't a turnback at Darra anymore, unless I'm mistaken.  Also, I'd rank Petrie ahead of Ferny Grove, and I'd think Manly and Kuraby are about on a par.