Random observations around the network ...

[STB]

The entrance from Dutton Park is not straight either, you have to walk and then turn left into the back of PA and walk further along a service road to access. It is also on a slope.

It is also exposed to the weather, unlike via Park Road that has all weather access.

[STB]

So the issue of keeping Dutton Park had nothing to do with it is closer to The PA Hospital, then Park Rd?

Park Road is better IMHO, transfer to bus, brand new DDA compliant station with direct access into the hospital. The Dutton Park access point is a fair walk to the actual hospital entrance, and it is the back way as well.

Passengers currently using DP would shift to use Park Rd. Ive also not felt safe at Park Rd, the station being in a cutting and underneath a bridge with narrow platforms and visually obscured.

A station for Park Rd is the real problem.

I think if you ran the numbers, one would probably find the busway and transfer from BUZ 100 to be more than DP... just a speculation...

Wouldn't there be others, who wouldn't want to get off at Park Road and transfter to a bus and would rather walk straight off Dutton Park to a PA Hospital?

But Dutton Park and others does need to be upgraded and hopefully it well be with no more money being wasted on road tunnels?



And PA Hospital would have different entrance to different departments for example there is a entrance off Cornwall St.

The difference is whether one is willing to transfer via a major interchange to a busway that has buses departing every 5 or so minutes, for a 1 minute trip to PA Hospital Busway Station and then a 5 minute covered walkway walk to the main entrance to the PA Hospital (entirely covered for weather) or willing to walk up a hill among the elements via a back entrance to the hospital.  Not everyone uses Dutton Park, people from the Cleveland line generally get off at either Buranda or Park Road and catch any of the high frequency bus routes to PA Hospital Busway station and then walk via the covered walkway to the main entrance.

I've walked both (Dutton Park and via the busway at either Buranda or Park Road), and personally I much prefer going via the busway, less time to wait for a transfer, pretty much all flat with lifts and you are covered from the elements (rain, sun etc) for the most part.  If anything it'd only add probably an additional 5 minutes to someone coming from the Beenleigh line if the Dutton Park station was removed and you had to transfer at Park Road (assuming there were platforms built there), or transfer at Woolloongabba onto route 29 that also stops at the PA Hospital and departs about every 5-10minutes from Wolloongabba (about a 3min journey from Gabba to PA Hospital then a 5min walk to the hospital itself).

In the scheme of things, given that there's a busway with high frequency buses to UQ and PA Hospital, a TOD (Boggo Road development) and 3 rail lines, you can see why I much prefer Park Road being saved over Dutton Park by a long shot, and that the residents were misguided with their wants of keeping Dutton Park over Park Road, in fact I think they simply didn't understand that Park Road was far more important and frankly were a little selfish overlooking it with some loss aversion thrown in.

Dutton Park by the way if it was removed, would've still had a high frequency route 196 operating to the city, with the possibility of a bus service to PA Hospital post bus network review if that went ahead, which again due to the cries of the public, amplified by the media and encouraged by short sighted BCC politicians, it didn't and we're still stuck with terrible network design that's putting pressure on the fares.

And with "people from the Cleveland line generally get off at either Buranda or Park Road and catch any of the high frequency bus routes to PA Hospital Busway station and then walk via the covered walkway to the main entrance" I guess people using The PA Hospital doesn't come from other areas?

So once again I wish some would understand reality, they do not speak for everyone.

And I think you missed the point I was making.  People will transfer if given the chance to, or even if it is forced upon, as the Cleveland line users have to do regardless  as they have no choice but to do that- unless they want to do a nice little 20 minute walk from Buranda railway station, of which some do.

I've lived on both the Beenleigh and Cleveland lines and have accessed the PA Hospital via Dutton Park and via Buranda / Park Road - seriously it only adds an additional 3-5 minutes than walking from Dutton Park, after you've worked your way into the hospital, depending on where you go for it.  When I go to the PA Hospital, I go there for renal stuff (kidneys) and that's located on Cornwall St, yet I have no issues going via Park Road or Buranda with a transfer onto the busway to the hospital itself.

[#Metro]

The difference is whether one is willing to transfer via a major interchange to a busway that has buses departing every 5 or so minutes, for a 1 minute trip to PA Hospital Busway Station and then a 5 minute covered walkway walk to the main entrance to the PA Hospital (entirely covered for weather) or willing to walk up a hill among the elements via a back entrance to the hospital.

Night access from Dutton Park is also a potential issue. Because it is the back way. I have walked along there late at night, its not well lit, there is no CCTV along the route between the station and the hospital. At night, you want to be accessing from PR or the PA busway.

[transwatch]

In the Newman, LNP, Council and Translink world recommendations is just that recommendations.

Disagree. LOW is a measurement and classification. 'Low' is not a reccomendation anymore than saying a triangle having 3 corners that add up to 180 degrees is a reccomendation. The actual reccomendation is listed in the text under 'route reccomendation'

If you walk from Park Road to PA Hospital I guess you noticed it is not a straight route?

The entrance from Dutton Park is not straight either, you have to walk and then turn left into the back of PA and walk further along a service road to access. It is also on a slope.

Like James "nobody" claims with "If DP was removed, people would just shift to PR" have you actually spoken to anyone?

Why would they not shift? Access is provided, and furhthermore I believe this is a way to access when one lives on the Cleveland rail line and has a destination to the PA or UQ.

And you look at Journey Planner to know 100% "UQ students coming from the BL line who will have to go all the way to W'Gabba"?

The journey planner does not have W'Gabba in it as it does not exist as a station yet.

And with "and yes I have used the service myself and observed pax loads. Hardly anyone uses it" do you catch the 105 ALL the time?

Why would TL publish LOW usage if the usage was not low. I've actually lived in that area, and used all those stations and services mentioned.

If you want to believe Newman, LNP, Council and Translink well do something even those reality proves otherwise, that is your problem.

And "I've actually lived in that area, and used all those stations and services mentioned" does not mean you spoken to every single person and caught it every single bus or train but if you did, good on you.

But if you actually looked at The journey planner W'Gabba does have a bus station and you can see UQ students coming from Beenleigh don't have to travel all the way to W'Gabba as you claim.

Now if you and others with similar way of thinking like not looking at the wider picture, thinking you speak for everyone, only pick and choose information you want to read etc  Please don't bother replying

[transwatch]

So the issue of keeping Dutton Park had nothing to do with it is closer to The PA Hospital, then Park Rd?

Park Road is better IMHO, transfer to bus, brand new DDA compliant station with direct access into the hospital. The Dutton Park access point is a fair walk to the actual hospital entrance, and it is the back way as well.

Passengers currently using DP would shift to use Park Rd. Ive also not felt safe at Park Rd, the station being in a cutting and underneath a bridge with narrow platforms and visually obscured.

A station for Park Rd is the real problem.

I think if you ran the numbers, one would probably find the busway and transfer from BUZ 100 to be more than DP... just a speculation...

Wouldn't there be others, who wouldn't want to get off at Park Road and transfter to a bus and would rather walk straight off Dutton Park to a PA Hospital?

But Dutton Park and others does need to be upgraded and hopefully it well be with no more money being wasted on road tunnels?



And PA Hospital would have different entrance to different departments for example there is a entrance off Cornwall St.

The difference is whether one is willing to transfer via a major interchange to a busway that has buses departing every 5 or so minutes, for a 1 minute trip to PA Hospital Busway Station and then a 5 minute covered walkway walk to the main entrance to the PA Hospital (entirely covered for weather) or willing to walk up a hill among the elements via a back entrance to the hospital.  Not everyone uses Dutton Park, people from the Cleveland line generally get off at either Buranda or Park Road and catch any of the high frequency bus routes to PA Hospital Busway station and then walk via the covered walkway to the main entrance.

I've walked both (Dutton Park and via the busway at either Buranda or Park Road), and personally I much prefer going via the busway, less time to wait for a transfer, pretty much all flat with lifts and you are covered from the elements (rain, sun etc) for the most part.  If anything it'd only add probably an additional 5 minutes to someone coming from the Beenleigh line if the Dutton Park station was removed and you had to transfer at Park Road (assuming there were platforms built there), or transfer at Woolloongabba onto route 29 that also stops at the PA Hospital and departs about every 5-10minutes from Wolloongabba (about a 3min journey from Gabba to PA Hospital then a 5min walk to the hospital itself).

In the scheme of things, given that there's a busway with high frequency buses to UQ and PA Hospital, a TOD (Boggo Road development) and 3 rail lines, you can see why I much prefer Park Road being saved over Dutton Park by a long shot, and that the residents were misguided with their wants of keeping Dutton Park over Park Road, in fact I think they simply didn't understand that Park Road was far more important and frankly were a little selfish overlooking it with some loss aversion thrown in.

Dutton Park by the way if it was removed, would've still had a high frequency route 196 operating to the city, with the possibility of a bus service to PA Hospital post bus network review if that went ahead, which again due to the cries of the public, amplified by the media and encouraged by short sighted BCC politicians, it didn't and we're still stuck with terrible network design that's putting pressure on the fares.

And with "people from the Cleveland line generally get off at either Buranda or Park Road and catch any of the high frequency bus routes to PA Hospital Busway station and then walk via the covered walkway to the main entrance" I guess people using The PA Hospital doesn't come from other areas?

So once again I wish some would understand reality, they do not speak for everyone.

And I think you missed the point I was making.  People will transfer if given the chance to, or even if it is forced upon, as the Cleveland line users have to do regardless  as they have no choice but to do that- unless they want to do a nice little 20 minute walk from Buranda railway station, of which some do.

I've lived on both the Beenleigh and Cleveland lines and have accessed the PA Hospital via Dutton Park and via Buranda / Park Road - seriously it only adds an additional 3-5 minutes than walking from Dutton Park, after you've worked your way into the hospital, depending on where you go for it.  When I go to the PA Hospital, I go there for renal stuff (kidneys) and that's located on Cornwall St, yet I have no issues going via Park Road or Buranda with a transfer onto the busway to the hospital itself.

And like some others, you missed the point I am making a number of times, you do not speak for everyone or in other words everyone is not like you especially going to The PA Hospital and others with similar way of thinking.

So please do not reply, if you are going to continue to think like this.

[STB]

The difference is whether one is willing to transfer via a major interchange to a busway that has buses departing every 5 or so minutes, for a 1 minute trip to PA Hospital Busway Station and then a 5 minute covered walkway walk to the main entrance to the PA Hospital (entirely covered for weather) or willing to walk up a hill among the elements via a back entrance to the hospital.

Night access from Dutton Park is also a potential issue. Because it is the back way. I have walked along there late at night, its not well lit, there is no CCTV along the route between the station and the hospital. At night, you want to be accessing from PR or the PA busway.

Oh yes, there's that too.  I also believe the hospital locks the back entrance after a certain time, with the main entrance really only being the only way in (other than via the Emergency department).

[transwatch]

The entrance from Dutton Park is not straight either, you have to walk and then turn left into the back of PA and walk further along a service road to access. It is also on a slope.

It is also exposed to the weather, unlike via Park Road that has all weather access.

Well money shouldn't wasted on road tunnels and spent on improving public transport not just on Dutton Park, but across the system.

[STB]

So the issue of keeping Dutton Park had nothing to do with it is closer to The PA Hospital, then Park Rd?

Park Road is better IMHO, transfer to bus, brand new DDA compliant station with direct access into the hospital. The Dutton Park access point is a fair walk to the actual hospital entrance, and it is the back way as well.

Passengers currently using DP would shift to use Park Rd. Ive also not felt safe at Park Rd, the station being in a cutting and underneath a bridge with narrow platforms and visually obscured.

A station for Park Rd is the real problem.

I think if you ran the numbers, one would probably find the busway and transfer from BUZ 100 to be more than DP... just a speculation...

Wouldn't there be others, who wouldn't want to get off at Park Road and transfter to a bus and would rather walk straight off Dutton Park to a PA Hospital?

But Dutton Park and others does need to be upgraded and hopefully it well be with no more money being wasted on road tunnels?



And PA Hospital would have different entrance to different departments for example there is a entrance off Cornwall St.

The difference is whether one is willing to transfer via a major interchange to a busway that has buses departing every 5 or so minutes, for a 1 minute trip to PA Hospital Busway Station and then a 5 minute covered walkway walk to the main entrance to the PA Hospital (entirely covered for weather) or willing to walk up a hill among the elements via a back entrance to the hospital.  Not everyone uses Dutton Park, people from the Cleveland line generally get off at either Buranda or Park Road and catch any of the high frequency bus routes to PA Hospital Busway station and then walk via the covered walkway to the main entrance.

I've walked both (Dutton Park and via the busway at either Buranda or Park Road), and personally I much prefer going via the busway, less time to wait for a transfer, pretty much all flat with lifts and you are covered from the elements (rain, sun etc) for the most part.  If anything it'd only add probably an additional 5 minutes to someone coming from the Beenleigh line if the Dutton Park station was removed and you had to transfer at Park Road (assuming there were platforms built there), or transfer at Woolloongabba onto route 29 that also stops at the PA Hospital and departs about every 5-10minutes from Wolloongabba (about a 3min journey from Gabba to PA Hospital then a 5min walk to the hospital itself).

In the scheme of things, given that there's a busway with high frequency buses to UQ and PA Hospital, a TOD (Boggo Road development) and 3 rail lines, you can see why I much prefer Park Road being saved over Dutton Park by a long shot, and that the residents were misguided with their wants of keeping Dutton Park over Park Road, in fact I think they simply didn't understand that Park Road was far more important and frankly were a little selfish overlooking it with some loss aversion thrown in.

Dutton Park by the way if it was removed, would've still had a high frequency route 196 operating to the city, with the possibility of a bus service to PA Hospital post bus network review if that went ahead, which again due to the cries of the public, amplified by the media and encouraged by short sighted BCC politicians, it didn't and we're still stuck with terrible network design that's putting pressure on the fares.

And with "people from the Cleveland line generally get off at either Buranda or Park Road and catch any of the high frequency bus routes to PA Hospital Busway station and then walk via the covered walkway to the main entrance" I guess people using The PA Hospital doesn't come from other areas?

So once again I wish some would understand reality, they do not speak for everyone.

And I think you missed the point I was making.  People will transfer if given the chance to, or even if it is forced upon, as the Cleveland line users have to do regardless  as they have no choice but to do that- unless they want to do a nice little 20 minute walk from Buranda railway station, of which some do.

I've lived on both the Beenleigh and Cleveland lines and have accessed the PA Hospital via Dutton Park and via Buranda / Park Road - seriously it only adds an additional 3-5 minutes than walking from Dutton Park, after you've worked your way into the hospital, depending on where you go for it.  When I go to the PA Hospital, I go there for renal stuff (kidneys) and that's located on Cornwall St, yet I have no issues going via Park Road or Buranda with a transfer onto the busway to the hospital itself.

And like some others, you missed the point I am making a number of times, you do not speak for everyone or in other words everyone is not like you especially going to The PA Hospital and others with similar way of thinking.

So please do not reply, if you are going to continue to think like this.

Transwatch, while you may not agree with others here, including myself, as long as I am within the rules of this forum, I have every right to respond to any post I wish to respond to. 

I certainly do not take a liking towards your attitude towards me and others in this forum who are taking a different point of view and trying to tell others here not to post  or respond (pretty much the same thing) because you don't like what we are saying - of which a lot of it is educated talk (myself being a past Network Planner with TransLink several years ago and have had training and education in proper Network (Transport) Planning) and I use that and my own personal experiences to form views, and I don't mind if they differ to others here.

[#Metro]

If you want to believe Newman, LNP, Council and Translink well do something even those reality proves otherwise, that is your problem.

Its a measurement. Anybody can jump on 105 and check, perhaps James could do a photo trip like he has on other services. I understand that people might want the 105 service kept as is and thus me saying it has low patronage be unwelcome, but the thing is, like it or not, it has low patronage. You are right that people in that area do need PT, which is what the actual bus review was going to do - supply them with an extra 180 services per weekday, in the form of extended 196 BUZ services but the local BCC councillor didn't want the review, and thus the service improvements to that area, which were also part of the  Translink review were rejected.

And "I've actually lived in that area, and used all those stations and services mentioned" does not mean you spoken to every single person and caught it every single bus or train but if you did, good on you.

Have you done this yourself?

But if you actually looked at The journey planner W'Gabba does have a bus station and you can see UQ students coming from Beenleigh don't have to travel all the way to W'Gabba as you claim.

Now if you and others with similar way of thinking like not looking at the wider picture, thinking you speak for everyone, only pick and choose information you want to read etc  Please don't bother replying

Wooloongabba does not have a train station. Under the BaT proposal Beenleigh line trains would be using the tunnel, this means that passengers to UQ from Beenleigh would lose access to Park Road, and have to travel to Wooloongabba or wait (possibly up to 30 minutes I suspect) for a via South Bank train, significantly increasing travel times more than the few minutes DP station users would experience by shifting to PR.

To allow UQ students to use the Park Road station, DP station would need to be moved underneath the current park road station to permit the tunnel portal to be realigned. This would permit both PA hospital staff and UQ students to both get to where they need to be with minimum of fuss.

[STB]

If you want to believe Newman, LNP, Council and Translink well do something even those reality proves otherwise, that is your problem.

Its a measurement. Anybody can jump on 105 and check, perhaps James could do a photo trip like he has on other services. I understand that people might want the 105 service kept as is and thus me saying it has low patronage be unwelcome, but the thing is, like it or not, it has low patronage. You are right that people in that area do need PT, which is what the actual bus review was going to do - supply them with an extra 180 services per weekday, in the form of extended 196 BUZ services but the local BCC councillor didn't want the review, and thus the service improvements to that area, which were also part of the  Translink review were rejected.

The ticketing data from TransLink would also back it up.  EVERYTHING is recorded, TransLink felt that Yeronga / Dutton Park area would be better serviced by an expanded high frequency bus route that already exists (route 196).  Of course that was not set in stone, and would've been adjusted by public feedback - if that feedback hadn't been crowded by miscommunication and the ensuring petitions etc that overpowered any sort of proper two way talk and reform, which then fell over by a weak Transport Minister who didn't have the balls to try and get proper reform happening and to give TransLink the resources to do that reform: eg: proper staffing to do community talks etc, as had happened back in 2004/2005 which drastically changed the old outdated networks of yesteryear and came in with something new.

Myopic views and/or self interest and/or misunderstanding and/or loss aversion plus encouragement by the local BCC Councillor and amplified by the media prevented this from happening which is a real shame.  Yeronga and Dutton Park missed out on one of the biggest upgrades they have had in nearly twenty years.

Transport Planning isn't static, it's fluid, and people's transport needs can change on a year by year basis, that's why yearly reviews happen to adjust to how people are getting around etc.

[#Metro]

And I think you missed the point I was making.  People will transfer if given the chance to, or even if it is forced upon, as the Cleveland line users have to do regardless  as they have no choice but to do that- unless they want to do a nice little 20 minute walk from Buranda railway station, of which some do.

I've lived on both the Beenleigh and Cleveland lines and have accessed the PA Hospital via Dutton Park and via Buranda / Park Road - seriously it only adds an additional 3-5 minutes than walking from Dutton Park, after you've worked your way into the hospital, depending on where you go for it.  When I go to the PA Hospital, I go there for renal stuff (kidneys) and that's located on Cornwall St, yet I have no issues going via Park Road or Buranda with a transfer onto the busway to the hospital itself.

^ It is worth thinking about this point STB has made, given that it comes from an actual user of PA with a medical need...

Retaining DP means that access for UQ students is degraded significantly. A station underneath the current park road is required, and to do this you need the tunnel access portal to be where the current DP station platforms are located. I do not agree with the current BaT design because PR is a major interchange and missing that does not make sense and totally defeats the construction of the busway-rail interchange at that location. Previously UQ students had to fly past dutton park and park road (no connection) and go to the CBD and then catch UQ Rocket 407 via Coronation Drive to get to UQ, a giant arc.

The PR busway-rail interchange revolutionised that and allowed Beenleigh and GC line pax to access UQ quickly and easily, now with the BaT plans that is all going to be taken away.

[transwatch]

And I think you missed the point I was making.  People will transfer if given the chance to, or even if it is forced upon, as the Cleveland line users have to do regardless  as they have no choice but to do that- unless they want to do a nice little 20 minute walk from Buranda railway station, of which some do.

I've lived on both the Beenleigh and Cleveland lines and have accessed the PA Hospital via Dutton Park and via Buranda / Park Road - seriously it only adds an additional 3-5 minutes than walking from Dutton Park, after you've worked your way into the hospital, depending on where you go for it.  When I go to the PA Hospital, I go there for renal stuff (kidneys) and that's located on Cornwall St, yet I have no issues going via Park Road or Buranda with a transfer onto the busway to the hospital itself.

^ It is worth thinking about this point STB has made, given that it comes from an actual user of PA with a medical need...

Retaining DP means that access for UQ students is degraded significantly. A station underneath the current park road is required, and to do this you need the tunnel access portal to be where the current DP station platforms are located. I do not agree with the current BaT design because PR is a major interchange and missing that does not make sense and totally defeats the construction of the busway-rail interchange at that location. Previously UQ students had to fly past dutton park and park road (no connection) and go to the CBD and then catch UQ Rocket 407 via Coronation Drive to get to UQ, a giant arc.

The PR busway-rail interchange revolutionised that and allowed Beenleigh and GC line pax to access UQ quickly and easily, now with the BaT plans that is all going to be taken away.

But it is a pity STB and others think other users of The PA Hospital are just like them and are going to the same place.

When common sense and reality, proves this is not the case.

[transwatch]

If you want to believe Newman, LNP, Council and Translink well do something even those reality proves otherwise, that is your problem.

Its a measurement. Anybody can jump on 105 and check, perhaps James could do a photo trip like he has on other services. I understand that people might want the 105 service kept as is and thus me saying it has low patronage be unwelcome, but the thing is, like it or not, it has low patronage. You are right that people in that area do need PT, which is what the actual bus review was going to do - supply them with an extra 180 services per weekday, in the form of extended 196 BUZ services but the local BCC councillor didn't want the review, and thus the service improvements to that area, which were also part of the  Translink review were rejected.

The ticketing data from TransLink would also back it up.  EVERYTHING is recorded, TransLink felt that Yeronga / Dutton Park area would be better serviced by an expanded high frequency bus route that already exists (route 196).  Of course that was not set in stone, and would've been adjusted by public feedback - if that feedback hadn't been crowded by miscommunication and the ensuring petitions etc that overpowered any sort of proper two way talk and reform, which then fell over by a weak Transport Minister who didn't have the balls to try and get proper reform happening and to give TransLink the resources to do that reform: eg: proper staffing to do community talks etc, as had happened back in 2004/2005 which drastically changed the old outdated networks of yesteryear and came in with something new.

Myopic views and/or self interest and/or misunderstanding and/or loss aversion plus encouragement by the local BCC Councillor and amplified by the media prevented this from happening which is a real shame.  Yeronga and Dutton Park missed out on one of the biggest upgrades they have had in nearly twenty years.

Transport Planning isn't static, it's fluid, and people's transport needs can change on a year by year basis, that's why yearly reviews happen to adjust to how people are getting around etc.

Why year tp year?  Why not say 5 years?

And in the bigger picture money being wasted on road tunnels can be spent to improve Dutton Park, Yeronga and others.

But I guess with you and SOME others, we have to agree to disagree as you have opinions based on your observation and I have mine.

[techblitz]

Of course that was not set in stone, and would've been adjusted by public feedback

plz STB.....dont even quote this line if you are referring to translink...HTG has before.....it just not common sense to quote it...
your right..translink do have the numbers.....they will also have the arrival/departure and on-time-running results of all the services from 3-7pm...the dismally late ones that have to do return runs around goodna/logan.....
what changes have translink made this year with areas under thier control....even with the plethora of timetabling/routing/frequency span complaints against them
522 ring a bell?...what about the countless news articles in papers over the last 8 months from the sunshine coast to the gold coast? what have they actually implemented,reversed?

Going by the effort so far...once its in stone...its set for good...
The only "reversing" thats been done this year due to public feedback was some ferry changes and the proposed 215/225 changes in the BT bus review.......all in regions NOT under sole translink control...
but feel free to enlighten me on any that ive missed...

[STB]

And I think you missed the point I was making.  People will transfer if given the chance to, or even if it is forced upon, as the Cleveland line users have to do regardless  as they have no choice but to do that- unless they want to do a nice little 20 minute walk from Buranda railway station, of which some do.

I've lived on both the Beenleigh and Cleveland lines and have accessed the PA Hospital via Dutton Park and via Buranda / Park Road - seriously it only adds an additional 3-5 minutes than walking from Dutton Park, after you've worked your way into the hospital, depending on where you go for it.  When I go to the PA Hospital, I go there for renal stuff (kidneys) and that's located on Cornwall St, yet I have no issues going via Park Road or Buranda with a transfer onto the busway to the hospital itself.

^ It is worth thinking about this point STB has made, given that it comes from an actual user of PA with a medical need...

Retaining DP means that access for UQ students is degraded significantly. A station underneath the current park road is required, and to do this you need the tunnel access portal to be where the current DP station platforms are located. I do not agree with the current BaT design because PR is a major interchange and missing that does not make sense and totally defeats the construction of the busway-rail interchange at that location. Previously UQ students had to fly past dutton park and park road (no connection) and go to the CBD and then catch UQ Rocket 407 via Coronation Drive to get to UQ, a giant arc.

The PR busway-rail interchange revolutionised that and allowed Beenleigh and GC line pax to access UQ quickly and easily, now with the BaT plans that is all going to be taken away.

But it is a pity STB and others think other users of The PA Hospital are just like them and are going to the same place.

When common sense and reality, proves this is not the case.

I certainly don't think I'm like others - different people will have different needs.  With my medical need if my kidney plays up, then walking up slopes becomes difficult - I become breathless and need to physically sit down to regain my composure.  My current closest station is Wellington Point, and that can be a hell of a task to walk up the ramps when my kidney is playing up, let alone walking up the slope at Dutton Park.

This is why I prefer Park Road / Buranda with a transfer over Dutton Park personally, I don't have to deal with slopes, I can access the lifts and so I don't end up breathless and feeling ill by walking up a hill or a slope, I can also take my time walking to the hospital entrance without being exposed to the weather.  This is a personal preference that suits my medical requirements.  At the moment, Dutton Park would be unsuitable when I have those episodes, even if I lived on the line (as I have lived on the line in the past - for about a year I lived on the Beenleigh line).

To me, this sounds more like a loss aversion response than anything else.  What is your main requirement to use Dutton Park?  Do you have a medical need or do you just prefer it and don't like the idea of making transfers?  I certainly don't think that even you speak for others and I'm surprised that you are getting upset at us thinking that we speak for others when you are implicitly proclaiming yourself to speak for others, when you are just one person.

[transwatch]

If you want to believe Newman, LNP, Council and Translink well do something even those reality proves otherwise, that is your problem.

Its a measurement. Anybody can jump on 105 and check, perhaps James could do a photo trip like he has on other services. I understand that people might want the 105 service kept as is and thus me saying it has low patronage be unwelcome, but the thing is, like it or not, it has low patronage. You are right that people in that area do need PT, which is what the actual bus review was going to do - supply them with an extra 180 services per weekday, in the form of extended 196 BUZ services but the local BCC councillor didn't want the review, and thus the service improvements to that area, which were also part of the  Translink review were rejected.

The ticketing data from TransLink would also back it up.  EVERYTHING is recorded, TransLink felt that Yeronga / Dutton Park area would be better serviced by an expanded high frequency bus route that already exists (route 196).  Of course that was not set in stone, and would've been adjusted by public feedback - if that feedback hadn't been crowded by miscommunication and the ensuring petitions etc that overpowered any sort of proper two way talk and reform, which then fell over by a weak Transport Minister who didn't have the balls to try and get proper reform happening and to give TransLink the resources to do that reform: eg: proper staffing to do community talks etc, as had happened back in 2004/2005 which drastically changed the old outdated networks of yesteryear and came in with something new.

Myopic views and/or self interest and/or misunderstanding and/or loss aversion plus encouragement by the local BCC Councillor and amplified by the media prevented this from happening which is a real shame.  Yeronga and Dutton Park missed out on one of the biggest upgrades they have had in nearly twenty years.

Transport Planning isn't static, it's fluid, and people's transport needs can change on a year by year basis, that's why yearly reviews happen to adjust to how people are getting around etc.

When you claim "EVERYTHING is recorded"  does this mean feedback?

If so then I say you are wrong again.

As a number of issues I had especially with the journey planner, I had to repeat myself, because the feedback was not recorded

So the observation I get from your and SOME other opinions, is that you think you speak for everybody or others are like you like PA Hospital Users, you seem to catch the same bus every day every single time to be able to claim the bus is not full like 105, you only get information that you want too look rather then looking at the bigger picture and getting more information like you don't have to go all The Gabba to get to UQ you can off at Park Road and walk to Boggo Road etc etc

And if you and SOME others want to continue along this way, then don't bother replying again.

Thanks 

[transwatch]

And I think you missed the point I was making.  People will transfer if given the chance to, or even if it is forced upon, as the Cleveland line users have to do regardless  as they have no choice but to do that- unless they want to do a nice little 20 minute walk from Buranda railway station, of which some do.

I've lived on both the Beenleigh and Cleveland lines and have accessed the PA Hospital via Dutton Park and via Buranda / Park Road - seriously it only adds an additional 3-5 minutes than walking from Dutton Park, after you've worked your way into the hospital, depending on where you go for it.  When I go to the PA Hospital, I go there for renal stuff (kidneys) and that's located on Cornwall St, yet I have no issues going via Park Road or Buranda with a transfer onto the busway to the hospital itself.

^ It is worth thinking about this point STB has made, given that it comes from an actual user of PA with a medical need...

Retaining DP means that access for UQ students is degraded significantly. A station underneath the current park road is required, and to do this you need the tunnel access portal to be where the current DP station platforms are located. I do not agree with the current BaT design because PR is a major interchange and missing that does not make sense and totally defeats the construction of the busway-rail interchange at that location. Previously UQ students had to fly past dutton park and park road (no connection) and go to the CBD and then catch UQ Rocket 407 via Coronation Drive to get to UQ, a giant arc.

The PR busway-rail interchange revolutionised that and allowed Beenleigh and GC line pax to access UQ quickly and easily, now with the BaT plans that is all going to be taken away.

But it is a pity STB and others think other users of The PA Hospital are just like them and are going to the same place.

When common sense and reality, proves this is not the case.

I certainly don't think I'm like others - different people will have different needs.  With my medical need if my kidney plays up, then walking up slopes becomes difficult - I become breathless and need to physically sit down to regain my composure.  My current closest station is Wellington Point, and that can be a hell of a task to walk up the ramps when my kidney is playing up, let alone walking up the slope at Dutton Park.

This is why I prefer Park Road / Buranda with a transfer over Dutton Park personally, I don't have to deal with slopes, I can access the lifts and so I don't end up breathless and feeling ill by walking up a hill or a slope, I can also take my time walking to the hospital entrance without being exposed to the weather.  This is a personal preference that suits my medical requirements.  At the moment, Dutton Park would be unsuitable when I have those episodes, even if I lived on the line (as I have lived on the line in the past - for about a year I lived on the Beenleigh line).

To me, this sounds more like a loss aversion response than anything else.  What is your main requirement to use Dutton Park?  Do you have a medical need or do you just prefer it and don't like the idea of making transfers?  I certainly don't think that even you speak for others and I'm surprised that you are getting upset at us thinking that we speak for others when you are implicitly proclaiming yourself to speak for others, when you are just one person.

"I certainly don't think I'm like others"  I guess you and others don't read your own opinion?

[transwatch]

So the issue of keeping Dutton Park had nothing to do with it is closer to The PA Hospital, then Park Rd?

Park Road is better IMHO, transfer to bus, brand new DDA compliant station with direct access into the hospital. The Dutton Park access point is a fair walk to the actual hospital entrance, and it is the back way as well.

Passengers currently using DP would shift to use Park Rd. Ive also not felt safe at Park Rd, the station being in a cutting and underneath a bridge with narrow platforms and visually obscured.

A station for Park Rd is the real problem.

I think if you ran the numbers, one would probably find the busway and transfer from BUZ 100 to be more than DP... just a speculation...

Wouldn't there be others, who wouldn't want to get off at Park Road and transfter to a bus and would rather walk straight off Dutton Park to a PA Hospital?

But Dutton Park and others does need to be upgraded and hopefully it well be with no more money being wasted on road tunnels?



And PA Hospital would have different entrance to different departments for example there is a entrance off Cornwall St.

The difference is whether one is willing to transfer via a major interchange to a busway that has buses departing every 5 or so minutes, for a 1 minute trip to PA Hospital Busway Station and then a 5 minute covered walkway walk to the main entrance to the PA Hospital (entirely covered for weather) or willing to walk up a hill among the elements via a back entrance to the hospital.  Not everyone uses Dutton Park, people from the Cleveland line generally get off at either Buranda or Park Road and catch any of the high frequency bus routes to PA Hospital Busway station and then walk via the covered walkway to the main entrance.

I've walked both (Dutton Park and via the busway at either Buranda or Park Road), and personally I much prefer going via the busway, less time to wait for a transfer, pretty much all flat with lifts and you are covered from the elements (rain, sun etc) for the most part.  If anything it'd only add probably an additional 5 minutes to someone coming from the Beenleigh line if the Dutton Park station was removed and you had to transfer at Park Road (assuming there were platforms built there), or transfer at Woolloongabba onto route 29 that also stops at the PA Hospital and departs about every 5-10minutes from Wolloongabba (about a 3min journey from Gabba to PA Hospital then a 5min walk to the hospital itself).

In the scheme of things, given that there's a busway with high frequency buses to UQ and PA Hospital, a TOD (Boggo Road development) and 3 rail lines, you can see why I much prefer Park Road being saved over Dutton Park by a long shot, and that the residents were misguided with their wants of keeping Dutton Park over Park Road, in fact I think they simply didn't understand that Park Road was far more important and frankly were a little selfish overlooking it with some loss aversion thrown in.

Dutton Park by the way if it was removed, would've still had a high frequency route 196 operating to the city, with the possibility of a bus service to PA Hospital post bus network review if that went ahead, which again due to the cries of the public, amplified by the media and encouraged by short sighted BCC politicians, it didn't and we're still stuck with terrible network design that's putting pressure on the fares.

And with "people from the Cleveland line generally get off at either Buranda or Park Road and catch any of the high frequency bus routes to PA Hospital Busway station and then walk via the covered walkway to the main entrance" I guess people using The PA Hospital doesn't come from other areas?

So once again I wish some would understand reality, they do not speak for everyone.

And I think you missed the point I was making.  People will transfer if given the chance to, or even if it is forced upon, as the Cleveland line users have to do regardless  as they have no choice but to do that- unless they want to do a nice little 20 minute walk from Buranda railway station, of which some do.

I've lived on both the Beenleigh and Cleveland lines and have accessed the PA Hospital via Dutton Park and via Buranda / Park Road - seriously it only adds an additional 3-5 minutes than walking from Dutton Park, after you've worked your way into the hospital, depending on where you go for it.  When I go to the PA Hospital, I go there for renal stuff (kidneys) and that's located on Cornwall St, yet I have no issues going via Park Road or Buranda with a transfer onto the busway to the hospital itself.

And like some others, you missed the point I am making a number of times, you do not speak for everyone or in other words everyone is not like you especially going to The PA Hospital and others with similar way of thinking.

So please do not reply, if you are going to continue to think like this.

Transwatch, while you may not agree with others here, including myself, as long as I am within the rules of this forum, I have every right to respond to any post I wish to respond to. 

I certainly do not take a liking towards your attitude towards me and others in this forum who are taking a different point of view and trying to tell others here not to post  or respond (pretty much the same thing) because you don't like what we are saying - of which a lot of it is educated talk (myself being a past Network Planner with TransLink several years ago and have had training and education in proper Network (Transport) Planning) and I use that and my own personal experiences to form views, and I don't mind if they differ to others here.

I did not say you are NOT allowed to response to my comments.

But like you as long as I am within the rules of this forum, I have every right to respond to any post I wish to respond to.

So lets agree to disagree and move on?

[STB]

Of course that was not set in stone, and would've been adjusted by public feedback

plz STB.....dont even quote this line if you are referring to translink...HTG has before.....it just not common sense to quote it...
your right..translink do have the numbers.....they will also have the arrival/departure and on-time-running results of all the services from 3-7pm...the dismally late ones that have to do return runs around goodna/logan.....
what changes have translink made this year with areas under thier control....even with the plethora of timetabling/routing/frequency span complaints against them
522 ring a bell?...what about the countless news articles in papers over the last 8 months from the sunshine coast to the gold coast? what have they actually implemented,reversed?

Going by the effort so far...once its in stone...its set for good...
The only "reversing" thats been done this year due to public feedback was some ferry changes and the proposed 215/225 changes in the BT bus review.......all in regions NOT under sole translink control...
but feel free to enlighten me on any that ive missed...

Techblitz - before I even worked in the transport industry, I was involved in going to the public meetings with the local service changes that they were going to do in the Redlands back in 2005, and they certainly made some major changes based on the feedback that they got at those public meetings (that's how I got my first job working as a casual in Marketing at TransLink - I turned up at one of the meetings, they noted I had quite a large amount of knowledge with transport and had some ideas in improving the maps back then, and so the Marketing Manager who was at the public meeting hired me on the spot and the rest is history).

I myself made changes to the Redlands network back in 2007 based on the feedback we were getting and the overcrowding we were noticing on route 281, and so I created an entire new network based on that in the southern Redlands (new routes 278, 279, adjusted routes 280 going to the Redland Bay Marina for the first time instead of having to do a 10-15min walk to the shops to pick it up...and adjusting the times between routes 271, 279 and 281 to give a 15min frequency to the city from Victoria Point Bus Station) that was released back in October 2007 (29th October I think it was from memory), and that gave Victoria Point effectively a 15min service into the city in peak hour - of which has since changed a bit with the creation of route 276 and adjusting route 279.

Just because they make a massive change, doesn't mean that TransLink is going to keep the network as it is and will be set in stone for generations to come - that's what an operator like BCC would do!

[#Metro]

When you claim "EVERYTHING is recorded"  does this mean feedback?

If so then I say you are wrong again.

As a number of issues I had especially with the journey planner, I had to repeat myself, because the feedback was not recorded

Actually it is. You can always send opinions to TransLink at any time through their facebook page, phone 13 12 30 or web form http://translink.com.au/site-information/contact-us-and-help.

I've done it myself a number of times, and for routes in that area as well. TransLink is responsive and they do listen and follow through with good ideas, for example BUZzing the 196, realigning 104 to Fairfield Rd, realigning Yeronga services to travel via the busway. Route 105 services Park Road station and PA hospital busway now, to permit access to the hospital from the DDA compliant station (it used to make people walk from DP station and then go via Annerly Rd), and route 104 was realigned (it used to stop on the slope on Cornwall st after passing DP station) it now also uses the PA Hospital busway station, and connects to PR interchange.

[STB]

If you want to believe Newman, LNP, Council and Translink well do something even those reality proves otherwise, that is your problem.

Its a measurement. Anybody can jump on 105 and check, perhaps James could do a photo trip like he has on other services. I understand that people might want the 105 service kept as is and thus me saying it has low patronage be unwelcome, but the thing is, like it or not, it has low patronage. You are right that people in that area do need PT, which is what the actual bus review was going to do - supply them with an extra 180 services per weekday, in the form of extended 196 BUZ services but the local BCC councillor didn't want the review, and thus the service improvements to that area, which were also part of the  Translink review were rejected.

The ticketing data from TransLink would also back it up.  EVERYTHING is recorded, TransLink felt that Yeronga / Dutton Park area would be better serviced by an expanded high frequency bus route that already exists (route 196).  Of course that was not set in stone, and would've been adjusted by public feedback - if that feedback hadn't been crowded by miscommunication and the ensuring petitions etc that overpowered any sort of proper two way talk and reform, which then fell over by a weak Transport Minister who didn't have the balls to try and get proper reform happening and to give TransLink the resources to do that reform: eg: proper staffing to do community talks etc, as had happened back in 2004/2005 which drastically changed the old outdated networks of yesteryear and came in with something new.

Myopic views and/or self interest and/or misunderstanding and/or loss aversion plus encouragement by the local BCC Councillor and amplified by the media prevented this from happening which is a real shame.  Yeronga and Dutton Park missed out on one of the biggest upgrades they have had in nearly twenty years.

Transport Planning isn't static, it's fluid, and people's transport needs can change on a year by year basis, that's why yearly reviews happen to adjust to how people are getting around etc.

When you claim "EVERYTHING is recorded"  does this mean feedback?

If so then I say you are wrong again.

As a number of issues I had especially with the journey planner, I had to repeat myself, because the feedback was not recorded

So the observation I get from your and SOME other opinions, is that you think you speak for everybody or others are like you like PA Hospital Users, you seem to catch the same bus every day every single time to be able to claim the bus is not full like 105, you only get information that you want too look rather then looking at the bigger picture and getting more information like you don't have to go all The Gabba to get to UQ you can off at Park Road and walk to Boggo Road etc etc

And if you and SOME others want to continue along this way, then don't bother replying again.

Thanks 

As a former Network Planner at TransLink - YES EVERYTHING IS RECORDED!  I used to access the Cubic ticketing data that would give detailed information of Go Card users and paper ticket data.  We also used to ride the network and gather ticketing data from physically being on the bus - I did an entire two weeks on one route that we wanted more information on, going backwards and forwards on every trip for an entire two weeks, physically counting people getting on and off at each and every stop - and I was the Planner in charge of that route.  We do get out there and use the network as well - when I was working I was in charge of the Redlands network, I lived in the Redlands for 20 years using the buses for a decade before I started working at TransLink, knew the network like the back of my hand, knew exactly where people were getting on/off and used the network myself to get to/from work, as did my supervisor - heck we used to sometimes catch the same bus, that we scheduled and routed ourselves - I even removed some under performing routes - one of which was my local bus to get to the city!  I had to do it though, there was other areas of the network that was crying out for more buses, and my local bus at the time (going back about 7 years ago now) was only carrying about 2-3 people.  It would've been fantastic to keep both buses and routes operating, but we had limited $$ to spend and the operator only had a limited number of buses available at that time of day.

We also get the feedback from the public - what you are talking about in regards to the journey planner and I'm assuming you are talking to TransLink's Facebook page,  is the customer service people  don't even work for TransLink directly, they are contractors with Stellar Asia Pacific who don't have the intricate detail and knowledge that Network Planners have, their only jobs is to pass on the info to the TransLink staff and act as a bridge between the public and the TransLink staff, and they want to make sure the information they are passing on is correct so TransLink staff can act on it.

When I was working for TransLink, every piece of correspondence from the public reached my desk and my job was to not only respond to it (writing letters was part of my job description), but also to log it and factor it in when it came to doing network reviews - and network reviews are complex beings that has a lot of different stakeholders involved with it, from the general public, through to the local council and the relevant operator who runs the routes - right up to Treasury who has to approve the funding for it - yes, TransLink changes can be rejected by the Government and Treasury even if the public doesn't see what the changes are going to be before they are implemented. 

The public sees very little of the process, which is unfortunate, and I do think that the public feels disconnected from the Planners which again is unfortunate, and I hope that changes in the future.

[techblitz]

its why i currently rate BT/TL on equal terms....both are being bombarded with complaints but nothing yet to eventuate....a case of too bad so sad...now it seems to have come to a stalemate...where we are now hearing "operational issue" for buses as the end result...
Both need to pick thier game up...

even if TL was negotiable post review for thier brisbane routes.......thier timetabling standards  still leave a lot to be desired....still would have been issues with thier clockfaced trip times......and from what weve seen so far.....just like BT...nothing....the only real changes they have done was with the major Light rail implementation...

the guy who recently complained about late running 560/550 services....these do happen each time i catch these services.....and has been going on for months...
i pointed out the big malarky on thier 550 route........36 mins offpeak.39 mins around schooltime but then back to 36mins from 4pm when all the road traffic increases?
where is the sense in that?...logic would tell you to keep it the same as school or increase it due to increased wait times at the traffic lights.....does translink possess logic?...they have the data dont they?

As a former Network Planner at TransLink - YES EVERYTHING IS RECORDED!

Then all they have to do is match up the complaint with the on-time-running data and they are off to the races...
In short STB....i along with many others will give translink a break once they prove that they are making a proper effort to genuinely address customer concerns.

[petey3801]

So, transwatch, I assume from all your grandstanding that you HAVE gone around and talked to EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the area, as you are attacking others for not doing?

Dutton Park is a low patronage station (compared to other inner City railway stations), which has a massive interchange station within sight of it a few hundred meters up the track. Oh, and before you start attacking me for not knowing what i'm talking about, I can almost guarantee I see a much greater range of rail services through Dutton Park station, day and night, weekday and weekend, than you do due to my work.

Keeping Dutton Park in the BaT tunnel means no Park Road station on the BaT tunnel, inconveniencing a LOT more people than would ever use Dutton Park. I have a feeling there were plans in the CRR proposal for an underground pedestrian link from the Park Road underground station to (not only the PR above ground station, but also) towards the PA Hospital area, something which should be able to be incorporated in to the BaT tunnel design (if Park Road were included, and if the whole tunnel were to be built, which I hope to God it doesn't get built, but that's another story for another time).

The connections from Park Road station, including to the PA Hospital, are so much better from Park Road, including a much easier walk (no hills, undercover, lifts, lighting etc) than from Dutton Park. The small amount of extra time added for pax to the PA that would normally use Dutton Park would be made up for many times over by the added connectivity and transfers etc. of having Park Road.

Don't agree? Fair enough. That's your opinion, this is mine.

[STB]

its why i currently rate BT/TL on equal terms....both are being bombarded with complaints but nothing yet to eventuate....a case of too bad so sad...now it seems to have come to a stalemate...where we are now hearing "operational issue" for buses as the end result...
Both need to pick thier game up...

even if TL was negotiable post review for thier brisbane routes.......thier timetabling standards  still leave a lot to be desired....still would have been issues with thier clockfaced trip times......and from what weve seen so far.....just like BT...nothing....the only real changes they have done was with the major Light rail implementation...

the guy who recently complained about late running 560/550 services....these do happen each time i catch these services.....and has been going on for months...
i pointed out the big malarky on thier 550 route........36 mins offpeak.39 mins around schooltime but then back to 36mins from 4pm when all the road traffic increases?
where is the sense in that?...logic would tell you to keep it the same as school or increase it due to increased wait times at the traffic lights.....does translink possess logic?...they have the data dont they?

As a former Network Planner at TransLink - YES EVERYTHING IS RECORDED!

Then all they have to do is match up the complaint with the on-time-running data and they are off to the races...
In short STB....i along with many others will give translink a break once they prove that they are making a proper effort to genuinely address customer concerns.

Perhaps what is needed is for TransLink to have the ability to make adjustments to the network on a more operational on the fly basis so to speak, done quickly and within a short term period (say no more than within a month if the complaints and observations support it).  At the moment, my understanding is that TransLink can't really adjust routes and times all that quickly and has to be incorporated into an overall network plan for the area that can be staged if required in terms of implementation, but is done on a yearly basis in terms of adjustments.

I've got some issues myself with my local route 255 having too much time in the timetable (running early / having to pullover and sit for a few minutes to catch up on time etc), but from my contacts, they can't do much about it until the next network review which is meant to happen about 12 months after the previous one, assuming that funding is available and released by Treasury.

In regards to the 550/560, some of the things that pop up in my mind personally is what is that bus linked to (on paper) in terms of the timetable and how is it structured around the rest of the network - does adding more time (on paper) mean that you need to throw another bus on from elsewhere to do what that bus (on paper) would've done - and I don't obviously have that information.

[petey3801]

its why i currently rate BT/TL on equal terms....both are being bombarded with complaints but nothing yet to eventuate....a case of too bad so sad...now it seems to have come to a stalemate...where we are now hearing "operational issue" for buses as the end result...
Both need to pick thier game up...

even if TL was negotiable post review for thier brisbane routes.......thier timetabling standards  still leave a lot to be desired....still would have been issues with thier clockfaced trip times......and from what weve seen so far.....just like BT...nothing....the only real changes they have done was with the major Light rail implementation...

the guy who recently complained about late running 560/550 services....these do happen each time i catch these services.....and has been going on for months...
i pointed out the big malarky on thier 550 route........36 mins offpeak.39 mins around schooltime but then back to 36mins from 4pm when all the road traffic increases?
where is the sense in that?...logic would tell you to keep it the same as school or increase it due to increased wait times at the traffic lights.....does translink possess logic?...they have the data dont they?

As a former Network Planner at TransLink - YES EVERYTHING IS RECORDED!

Then all they have to do is match up the complaint with the on-time-running data and they are off to the races...
In short STB....i along with many others will give translink a break once they prove that they are making a proper effort to genuinely address customer concerns.

Don't forget, Translink have had the guts ripped out of them when Newman came in to office, and have been pulled from being a stand alone department to being a little office among the TMR. Time and money constraints area major factor for TL, plus having to get Every. Single. Little. Change. approved by the Government and Treasury. And we all know how long it takes for Gov't's to approve anything...

[transwatch]

If you want to believe Newman, LNP, Council and Translink well do something even those reality proves otherwise, that is your problem.

Its a measurement. Anybody can jump on 105 and check, perhaps James could do a photo trip like he has on other services. I understand that people might want the 105 service kept as is and thus me saying it has low patronage be unwelcome, but the thing is, like it or not, it has low patronage. You are right that people in that area do need PT, which is what the actual bus review was going to do - supply them with an extra 180 services per weekday, in the form of extended 196 BUZ services but the local BCC councillor didn't want the review, and thus the service improvements to that area, which were also part of the  Translink review were rejected.

The ticketing data from TransLink would also back it up.  EVERYTHING is recorded, TransLink felt that Yeronga / Dutton Park area would be better serviced by an expanded high frequency bus route that already exists (route 196).  Of course that was not set in stone, and would've been adjusted by public feedback - if that feedback hadn't been crowded by miscommunication and the ensuring petitions etc that overpowered any sort of proper two way talk and reform, which then fell over by a weak Transport Minister who didn't have the balls to try and get proper reform happening and to give TransLink the resources to do that reform: eg: proper staffing to do community talks etc, as had happened back in 2004/2005 which drastically changed the old outdated networks of yesteryear and came in with something new.

Myopic views and/or self interest and/or misunderstanding and/or loss aversion plus encouragement by the local BCC Councillor and amplified by the media prevented this from happening which is a real shame.  Yeronga and Dutton Park missed out on one of the biggest upgrades they have had in nearly twenty years.

Transport Planning isn't static, it's fluid, and people's transport needs can change on a year by year basis, that's why yearly reviews happen to adjust to how people are getting around etc.

When you claim "EVERYTHING is recorded"  does this mean feedback?

If so then I say you are wrong again.

As a number of issues I had especially with the journey planner, I had to repeat myself, because the feedback was not recorded

So the observation I get from your and SOME other opinions, is that you think you speak for everybody or others are like you like PA Hospital Users, you seem to catch the same bus every day every single time to be able to claim the bus is not full like 105, you only get information that you want too look rather then looking at the bigger picture and getting more information like you don't have to go all The Gabba to get to UQ you can off at Park Road and walk to Boggo Road etc etc

And if you and SOME others want to continue along this way, then don't bother replying again.

Thanks 

As a former Network Planner at TransLink - YES EVERYTHING IS RECORDED!  I used to access the Cubic ticketing data that would give detailed information of Go Card users and paper ticket data.  We also used to ride the network and gather ticketing data from physically being on the bus - I did an entire two weeks on one route that we wanted more information on, going backwards and forwards on every trip for an entire two weeks, physically counting people getting on and off at each and every stop - and I was the Planner in charge of that route.  We do get out there and use the network as well - when I was working I was in charge of the Redlands network, I lived in the Redlands for 20 years using the buses for a decade before I started working at TransLink, knew the network like the back of my hand, knew exactly where people were getting on/off and used the network myself to get to/from work, as did my supervisor - heck we used to sometimes catch the same bus, that we scheduled and routed ourselves - I even removed some under performing routes - one of which was my local bus to get to the city!  I had to do it though, there was other areas of the network that was crying out for more buses, and my local bus at the time (going back about 7 years ago now) was only carrying about 2-3 people.  It would've been fantastic to keep both buses and routes operating, but we had limited $$ to spend and the operator only had a limited number of buses available at that time of day.

We also get the feedback from the public - what you are talking about in regards to the journey planner and I'm assuming you are talking to TransLink's Facebook page,  is the customer service people  don't even work for TransLink directly, they are contractors with Stellar Asia Pacific who don't have the intricate detail and knowledge that Network Planners have, their only jobs is to pass on the info to the TransLink staff and act as a bridge between the public and the TransLink staff, and they want to make sure the information they are passing on is correct so TransLink staff can act on it.

When I was working for TransLink, every piece of correspondence from the public reached my desk and my job was to not only respond to it (writing letters was part of my job description), but also to log it and factor it in when it came to doing network reviews - and network reviews are complex beings that has a lot of different stakeholders involved with it, from the general public, through to the local council and the relevant operator who runs the routes - right up to Treasury who has to approve the funding for it - yes, TransLink changes can be rejected by the Government and Treasury even if the public doesn't see what the changes are going to be before they are implemented. 

The public sees very little of the process, which is unfortunate, and I do think that the public feels disconnected from the Planners which again is unfortunate, and I hope that changes in the future.

Pity STB you assuming just about anything rather then checking the facts before replying, as this well help you a lot.

I am not talking to Facebook as you wrongly assume, I do feedback through online feedback form, call centre and Twitter.

And based on using common sense and reality, NOT ALL FEEDBACK is recorded as proven by the number of times I have to repeat myself for the same issue.

But in writing "every piece of correspondence from the public reached my desk"  are you saying you were the only staff member in all of Translink who gets correspondence from the public?

So yes they should be a big change like a inquiry in Translink as a whole especially why use overseas companies like for The Gocard System.

And a big change for you is to accept reality is a lot different to what you assume like NOT ALL FEEDBACK is recorded as you wrongly claimed, you would have not be the only one who accepts feedback (As I seen tweets and replies from different Translink Staff) you don't speak for others, everyone is not like you catching public transport, you are NOT acting like a commuter and from your opinion it seems you still work for Translink, etc etc

[transwatch]

its why i currently rate BT/TL on equal terms....both are being bombarded with complaints but nothing yet to eventuate....a case of too bad so sad...now it seems to have come to a stalemate...where we are now hearing "operational issue" for buses as the end result...
Both need to pick thier game up...

even if TL was negotiable post review for thier brisbane routes.......thier timetabling standards  still leave a lot to be desired....still would have been issues with thier clockfaced trip times......and from what weve seen so far.....just like BT...nothing....the only real changes they have done was with the major Light rail implementation...

the guy who recently complained about late running 560/550 services....these do happen each time i catch these services.....and has been going on for months...
i pointed out the big malarky on thier 550 route........36 mins offpeak.39 mins around schooltime but then back to 36mins from 4pm when all the road traffic increases?
where is the sense in that?...logic would tell you to keep it the same as school or increase it due to increased wait times at the traffic lights.....does translink possess logic?...they have the data dont they?

As a former Network Planner at TransLink - YES EVERYTHING IS RECORDED!

Then all they have to do is match up the complaint with the on-time-running data and they are off to the races...
In short STB....i along with many others will give translink a break once they prove that they are making a proper effort to genuinely address customer concerns.

Don't forget, Translink have had the guts ripped out of them when Newman came in to office, and have been pulled from being a stand alone department to being a little office among the TMR. Time and money constraints area major factor for TL, plus having to get Every. Single. Little. Change. approved by the Government and Treasury. And we all know how long it takes for Gov't's to approve anything...

To help pay for his road tunnels?

[techblitz]

Perhaps what is needed is for TransLink to have the ability to make adjustments to the network on a more operational on the fly basis so to speak, done quickly and within a short term period (say no more than within a month if the complaints and observations support it).  At the moment, my understanding is that TransLink can't really adjust routes and times all that quickly and has to be incorporated into an overall network plan for the area that can be staged if required in terms of implementation, but is done on a yearly basis in terms of adjustment

spot on...
as ozbob stated...translink are perhaps running on fumes.....auckland actually had thier transport planners take the routes to get a firsthand look at each route to "see it from the customers eyes".
Perhaps we need to see some green shirts on the buses taking notes....
eg: they can rotate around the network like transit officers taking notes...especially on where the traffic holdups are happening etc...but in all honesty the gps data should be able to show all of that.....just need the staff to take a regular look at it and pinpoint quick changes...

[#Metro]

And based on using common sense and reality, NOT ALL FEEDBACK is recorded as proven by the number of times I have to repeat myself for the same issue.

What issue is this you speak of?

[STB]

TransWatch - I certainly do not work for TransLink currently - I left the industry in 2009 to pursue other interests - namely the Arts, of which I'm currently at university and soon will be working part time to help fund my university studies.  And I am also a regular user of the PA Hospital - I have been going there since 1996, and have made friends along the way from having treatment there.  Prior to 1996, I was going to the Mater Childrens Hospital for treatment and doctor visits.

Have you spoken to EVERY SINGLE PERSON in TransLink?  I certainly have met many in the past, and worked alongside them, so I certainly know what they get up to.

Oh and by the way, the TransLink twitter page is run by Stellar Asia Pacific, not TransLink themselves.  They are a contractor to TransLink to operate the call centre and to manage the social media aspects.  Trust me, if you want to speak to TransLink staff directly, go to any of their consultations - I spent 3 hours with a TMR staff member and a former co-worker of mine from Queensland Rail who was taking on feedback in regards to BaT and has been directly involved in that project - and I and others from TransLink were involved in heading out and speaking to the public face to face at consultations - I even went to service launches with my supervisor in the local area back in the day.

And yes, EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF INFORMATION IS RECORDED AND LOGGED - when I was working at TransLink, from Contract Managers through to Ticketing through to Network Planning - we got every piece of information, and they do look at the Facebook page as well - I spoke to one of my former co-workers about that.  They certainly know what's going on in the network and apply transport planning principals as best as they can to do it, they are a government department however, and every government department takes time to implement changes due to red tape and approvals being required from other areas.

[James]

And a big change for you is to accept reality is a lot different to what you assume like NOT ALL FEEDBACK is recorded as you wrongly claimed, you would have not be the only one who accepts feedback (As I seen tweets and replies from different Translink Staff) you don't speak for others, everyone is not like you catching public transport, you are NOT acting like a commuter and from your opinion it seems you still work for Translink, etc etc

I personally am quite sure that the feedback is recorded, but it is not going to be acted upon for three reasons:
1. Any timetable changes require government approval, and public servants are on the whole, incompetent. I say this based on comments from family members, who have actually said they could feel themselves getting stupider while working for the government.
2. BCC - BCC refuses to co-operate with TransLink, and I personally think it doesn't give a rats' bum about running an efficient and reliable bus network.
3. Lack of funding. BCC has eaten up most of the funding available for new services.

Sorry James showing concern for others is not whining.

But reading your own comments or whine, it seems you think it is easier up the lift, walk a few hundred metres, down the lift catch a bus to PA Hospital Bus station and do the same there, then walk direct off Dutton Park Station?

Or put it another way, have you actually walk to PA Hospital from Dutton Park and Park Rd Rail and ok Boggo Rd Bus Station?

Also James in writing "The 105 is an awful way of getting across town and serves practically nobody" I guess you spoke to everyone who catches the 105 to see if they agreed with your claim?

And so on this basic have you spoken to everyone that they agreed with your suggestions of catching 444 and 66?

" Direct services everywhere is the reason we have some of the world's highest fares".

Based on facts and you can prove it with evidence?

But common sense would show that having direct service is way better then catching one bus then changing onto another bus.

Then I would like you to show some concern for me. I have to walk 1km from my local BUZ route (the 412) late at night and on Sundays due to my local service running hourly. There is the risk that I could end up being assaulted by someone out to cause disruption to the community. As such, I believe the 411 should be BUZed - no exceptions. I could whinge like you do, but instead, I provide constructive cost-neutral solutions and focus on the core issue - lack of frequency on the Toowong - Hawken Dr - UQ corridor.

And yes, I have done both those two options you mention AND I have also walked from the bus stop on the other side of the Green Bridge near the cemetery. I preferred walking to the PA Hospital busway station, due to the high frequency of the service and ease of access (with connections to UQ, the CBD and Brisbane's wider southside area). And mind you, this was to a part of the PA from which you can SEE Dutton Park station (UQ PACE, to be precise).

I haven't spoken to those on the 105, but I have spoken to a number of residents in Yeronga, as well as having been a weekly user of the 105 service back in 2012. Most people in Yeronga NEVER use the bus - even in peak hour. They either Park n Ride at the train station, or as one does, cycle to their destination. When I caught the 105 back in 2012, most of the school student load had disappeared by School Rd in Yeronga - as had most of the other non-school passengers.

Also, re: direct services and fares. BCC operates a network with some of the highest subsidies (a direct services network). We have some of the world's highest fares. Put two and two together.

So far, all you seem to be is some whinger who has come this forum to do nothing but troll users and demand that people who actually use the wider transit network on a regular basis "stop posting", only to retort back when you are proved obviously wrong that "that's my opinion, I have mine." May I encourage you to, instead of spending time posting on this forum, to actually go on a trip on the 105 and see how much of a time-wasting air parcel this service is. Given I have work off this week, I think I will do the same as well sometime during the day this week, or maybe even on Sunday.

[red dragin]

Busy day of network observing today......

[transwatch]

TransWatch - I certainly do not work for TransLink currently - I left the industry in 2009 to pursue other interests - namely the Arts, of which I'm currently at university and soon will be working part time to help fund my university studies.  And I am also a regular user of the PA Hospital - I have been going there since 1996, and have made friends along the way from having treatment there.  Prior to 1996, I was going to the Mater Childrens Hospital for treatment and doctor visits.

Have you spoken to EVERY SINGLE PERSON in TransLink?  I certainly have met many in the past, and worked alongside them, so I certainly know what they get up to.

Oh and by the way, the TransLink twitter page is run by Stellar Asia Pacific, not TransLink themselves.  They are a contractor to TransLink to operate the call centre and to manage the social media aspects.  Trust me, if you want to speak to TransLink staff directly, go to any of their consultations - I spent 3 hours with a TMR staff member and a former co-worker of mine from Queensland Rail who was taking on feedback in regards to BaT and has been directly involved in that project - and I and others from TransLink were involved in heading out and speaking to the public face to face at consultations - I even went to service launches with my supervisor in the local area back in the day.

And yes, EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF INFORMATION IS RECORDED AND LOGGED - when I was working at TransLink, from Contract Managers through to Ticketing through to Network Planning - we got every piece of information, and they do look at the Facebook page as well - I spoke to one of my former co-workers about that.  They certainly know what's going on in the network and apply transport planning principals as best as they can to do it, they are a government department however, and every government department takes time to implement changes due to red tape and approvals being required from other areas.

Thank you STB for proving by writing "met many in the past, and worked alongside them" you have not or spoken to everyone in Translink.

And in writing "And yes, EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF INFORMATION IS RECORDED AND LOGGED' is proof, you don't know everything that happens at Translink.

As how many times do I get you to face reality,   NOT EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF INFORMATION IS RECORDED AND LOGGED via Online, Call Centre and Twitter.

And you have to admit yourself, within 3 hours you cannot come face to face to every single person who uses the Translink and has feedback in regards to BaT.



So STB if you don't want to race reality based on using common sense and facts not what you assume, then please don't shame yourself by replying again.

[techblitz]

I believe the 411 should be BUZed

damn...giving me ideas..now i might just design a new network based  around my buz route 110 

[ozbob]

Transwatch.

We can agree to disagree on the board.

Here we respect each others views. 

Participation here is not a right.

Conditions --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3.msg3#msg3

Unnecessary provocation of long standing members will not be tolerated thanks.

Admin.

TransWatch - I certainly do not work for TransLink currently - I left the industry in 2009 to pursue other interests - namely the Arts, of which I'm currently at university and soon will be working part time to help fund my university studies.  And I am also a regular user of the PA Hospital - I have been going there since 1996, and have made friends along the way from having treatment there.  Prior to 1996, I was going to the Mater Childrens Hospital for treatment and doctor visits.

Have you spoken to EVERY SINGLE PERSON in TransLink?  I certainly have met many in the past, and worked alongside them, so I certainly know what they get up to.

Oh and by the way, the TransLink twitter page is run by Stellar Asia Pacific, not TransLink themselves.  They are a contractor to TransLink to operate the call centre and to manage the social media aspects.  Trust me, if you want to speak to TransLink staff directly, go to any of their consultations - I spent 3 hours with a TMR staff member and a former co-worker of mine from Queensland Rail who was taking on feedback in regards to BaT and has been directly involved in that project - and I and others from TransLink were involved in heading out and speaking to the public face to face at consultations - I even went to service launches with my supervisor in the local area back in the day.

And yes, EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF INFORMATION IS RECORDED AND LOGGED - when I was working at TransLink, from Contract Managers through to Ticketing through to Network Planning - we got every piece of information, and they do look at the Facebook page as well - I spoke to one of my former co-workers about that.  They certainly know what's going on in the network and apply transport planning principals as best as they can to do it, they are a government department however, and every government department takes time to implement changes due to red tape and approvals being required from other areas.

Thank you STB for proving by writing "met many in the past, and worked alongside them" you have not or spoken to everyone in Translink.

And in writing "And yes, EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF INFORMATION IS RECORDED AND LOGGED' is proof, you don't know everything that happens at Translink.

As how many times do I get you to face reality,   NOT EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF INFORMATION IS RECORDED AND LOGGED via Online, Call Centre and Twitter.

And you have to admit yourself, within 3 hours you cannot come face to face to every single person who uses the Translink and has feedback in regards to BaT.



So STB if you don't want to race reality based on using common sense and facts not what you assume, then please don't shame yourself by replying again.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Inner city problems. Reading all this nonsense about Dutton Park and oh how the poor people have to walk a little bit and some random nonsense about feedback. Pffftttt. Now back to waiting for my 338. Only 13 hours and 20 minutes until it comes past. Still not enough time to read some of the dribble above

[SurfRail]

Of course that was not set in stone, and would've been adjusted by public feedback

plz STB.....dont even quote this line if you are referring to translink...HTG has before.....it just not common sense to quote it...
your right..translink do have the numbers.....they will also have the arrival/departure and on-time-running results of all the services from 3-7pm...the dismally late ones that have to do return runs around goodna/logan.....
what changes have translink made this year with areas under thier control....even with the plethora of timetabling/routing/frequency span complaints against them
522 ring a bell?...what about the countless news articles in papers over the last 8 months from the sunshine coast to the gold coast? what have they actually implemented,reversed?

Going by the effort so far...once its in stone...its set for good...
The only "reversing" thats been done this year due to public feedback was some ferry changes and the proposed 215/225 changes in the BT bus review.......all in regions NOT under sole translink control...
but feel free to enlighten me on any that ive missed...

Bit hard for them to do anything when they don't have the budget because BCC has sucked it all up like Daniel Plainview.

[Arnz]

Inner city problems. Reading all this nonsense about Dutton Park and oh how the poor people have to walk a little bit and some random nonsense about feedback. Pffftttt. Now back to waiting for my 338. Only 13 hours and 20 minutes until it comes past. Still not enough time to read some of the dribble above

crap, I've missed my bus and it's Friday.. Only 71hrs and 59mins for the next one.. 314! 314! 314!

[Arnz]

Of course that was not set in stone, and would've been adjusted by public feedback

plz STB.....dont even quote this line if you are referring to translink...HTG has before.....it just not common sense to quote it...
your right..translink do have the numbers.....they will also have the arrival/departure and on-time-running results of all the services from 3-7pm...the dismally late ones that have to do return runs around goodna/logan.....
what changes have translink made this year with areas under thier control....even with the plethora of timetabling/routing/frequency span complaints against them
522 ring a bell?...what about the countless news articles in papers over the last 8 months from the sunshine coast to the gold coast? what have they actually implemented,reversed?

Going by the effort so far...once its in stone...its set for good...
The only "reversing" thats been done this year due to public feedback was some ferry changes and the proposed 215/225 changes in the BT bus review.......all in regions NOT under sole translink control...
but feel free to enlighten me on any that ive missed...

Bit hard for them to do anything when they don't have the budget because BCC has sucked it all up like Daniel Plainview.

BCC is also directly responsible for sucking up the outer region's budget through their lackluster bus review.  The majority of the rest of SE Queensland are funding the BCC's waste through taking away some of our bus services to fund the air parcel service in Brisbane.

Some have the hide to accuse interurban commuters of wasting taxpayers money, well they have done the same thing by wanting to keep BCC's high waste network.  Everyone else in SEQ and the rest of Qld are funding BCC's waste through taxes and taking away their bus services.

[HappyTrainGuy]

cr%p, I've missed my bus and it's Friday.. Only 71hrs and 59mins for the next one.. 314! 314! 314!

Bless our beloved 314