Random observations around the network ...

[ozbob]

I did, good solid loadings. 

Even the last ones see --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6083.msg58450#msg58450

Loadings that day were the typical ones.

When the service ceased most pax avoided the buses and simply went via Roma St.

[dancingmongoose]

just wondering....did you take the old peak services on that line before they were canned? Would be interested to know what the loadings were like...

I never did, working at Taringa I never had to.

[techblitz]

I did, good solid loadings. 

Even the last ones see --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6083.msg58450#msg58450

Loadings that day were the typical ones.

When the service ceased most pax avoided the buses and simply went via Roma St.

cheers

the last time used the 104 from yerongpilly to conrinda at schooltime it was standing load to front.Students from yeronga area no doubt.
definitely can see why there were petitions going around...

[dancingmongoose]

Will be a long time before sufficient demand and RStock warrants it... in-terms of cross-town demand there just isnt enough..

Although, if there was a survey or something whether people would want it. Dutton Park has minimal patronage and another, larger station 600m away and yet there was a seemingly world wide backlash when it was announced to be closing.

[James]

Although, if there was a survey or something whether people would want it. Dutton Park has minimal patronage and another, larger station 600m away and yet there was a seemingly world wide backlash when it was announced to be closing.

That's because Annastasia P. and Co. used Dutton Park station for political points, rather than focusing on the big issue with BUM which is lack of Park Rd station.

Re: Tennyson, I can see why they removed the service. The buses do the job adequately these days, ignoring school hours. BCC really should have put on some school buses going from the suburbs in the inner SE to the inner SW and vice-versa, though. As well as that - span of hours and frequency increase urgently required! Should be a 104 connecting to every off-peak service like so: Ipswich - 104 - Beenleigh. Possibly peak as well, although thanks to frequency a connection wouldn't matter so much.

I would think 6am - 9pm 7 days a week in order. Such a removal would also facilitate the (much needed) scrapping of the 105 and extending the 196. Provided there is a stop on the timetable marked as a timing point/interchange point from 196 Yeronga and 104 Corinda, I wouldn't be too worried.

[aldonius]

The 7:02am ex-Ferny died this morning, so we had a 'fun' time on the subsequent service (a 3-car, SMU260 series)...

I estimate 50-60 standees per carriage - so about 400 on board total.
Easily 20 standees per carriage leaving Mitchelton.

About a 4.5 on the Derwan scale on arrival at Bowen Hills - 'door-hopping' was observed, some people 'didn't bother' but sufficiently determined people could and did board.

Practically speaking, this is over the upper limit of what people will accept on a regular basis. It might be possible to fit 1000 pax on a 6-car EMU, but the 'train full on a regular basis' figure that is in any way sustainable is at most 750.

[ozbob]

Yo, 1000 pax on 6 car EMU is the design limit, in reality they aim for 750 max pax.

[HappyTrainGuy]

You might be able to squeeze 1000 1978 sized people onboard. Times have changed. Everyone is getting fatter 

[red dragin]

You might be able to squeeze 1000 1978 sized people onboard. Times have changed. Everyone is getting fatter 

Oi, I resemble that comment !   

[HappyTrainGuy]

You might be able to squeeze 1000 1978 sized people onboard. Times have changed. Everyone is getting fatter 

Oi, I resemble that comment !   

I can't say I'm immune from that comment 

[SurfRail]

They could carry 1,000 more easily with 3 doors and better seating layout.

The Transperth C sets currently being tendered for include a requirement for doors every 5.5m (ie 4 per carriage per side).  They aren't mucking around anymore.

[#Metro]

Even on Mandurah line? What are we getting? 2 doors/side?

[SurfRail]

Even on Mandurah line? What are we getting? 2 doors/side?

Even Mandurah.  The order is for 50 x 6 car sets, so a slightly cut down number compared with the NGR order for 75 x 6, but theirs represents basically all increase and a substantially greater increase than in our case. 

Assuming all EMUs and ICEs are retired as at delivery of the last NGR set, we will have gone from 211 units today (103.5 x 6 car trains plus 4 ICEs in various possible shapes/sizes, 641 cars total) to 195 units (135 x 6 car trains, 810 cars total).

Assuming Perth retires all of its A-sets (which I'm not even sure they are doing), they will be going from 116 units as at completion of the last B-set (24 x (2+2) A-set cars, 34 x (3+3) B-set cars, total of 300) to 118 units (34 x (3+3) B-set cars, 50x6 C-set cars, total of 504).

Perth is getting not only a significantly higher proportion of trains overall for its fleet, but it will be getting more discrete trains than it had before, and all of its new trains will permit higher-capacity operation.

If you correlate patronage with fleet strength, it doesn't paint a pretty picture for us.  If Perth maintains the same utilisation, their patronage will probably exceed 100 million.  Ours would struggle to reach 70 million, even with the equivalent of 50 more 6 car trains.

The NGR trains will have 2 doors per side, and a single toilet for an entire 6 car train (which is one more than the C-sets probably will but one less than would be standard now, and significantly less than would be standard in NSW).

[aldonius]

On the toilet matter - they're replacing EMUs, which have no toilets whatsoever, so a net improvement.

I suddenly confused myself, and in the process of writing this, resolved the confusion: Presently in peak, we're running at effectively 100% fleet utilisation - with the reduction in total 'units' won't that bring problems? Answer: of course not, because the vast majority of these 'units' are run coupled to another!

[techblitz]

420pm express rosewood bound...changes to all stops from corinda to rosewood.....lots of pax crowd onto train at corinda..operational issue with previous springfield train.....
One of the ones you wont hear about because of minimal delays......nevertheless....add another to the QR operational issues list...

[Gazza]

Note the time...yep, sure turned out to be a white elephant Mr condom kingdom 

[pandmaster]

I noticed that the bins inside Roma Street and South Brisbane have been stickered over or otherwise obstructed.

[pandmaster]

I noticed that the bins inside Roma Street and South Brisbane have been stickered over or otherwise obstructed.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/bins-banned-as-nation-on-high-alert-20140915-10h3bj.html

[aldonius]

To follow up from last week's post, I was once again on the 7:10 ex-Ferny this morning. Not particularly crowded in the front carriage; equal number of people and seats at about Newmarket. 15-20 standees at Bowen Hills.

Looked to be more crowded in the centre carriage - ah well, more space for me.

[pandmaster]

I recently noticed this at Wooloowin station. It took them a while from January when Airport trains started stopping (which I greatly appreciate).


A QR employee gave me this at Beenleigh on the way to the rugby on the Gold Coast on Saturday night. It was much appreciated as it was a bit wet!

[transwatch]

Will be a long time before sufficient demand and RStock warrants it... in-terms of cross-town demand there just isnt enough..

Although, if there was a survey or something whether people would want it. Dutton Park has minimal patronage and another, larger station 600m away and yet there was a seemingly world wide backlash when it was announced to be closing.

Not a world wide backlash as you think.

But if you care too look at Google Maps, you would see Dutton Park would be closer for people going to PA Hospital especially for those going for treatments, then Park Rd at "600m away", where I think you would want those going to PA Hospital to walk from?

[transwatch]

Although, if there was a survey or something whether people would want it. Dutton Park has minimal patronage and another, larger station 600m away and yet there was a seemingly world wide backlash when it was announced to be closing.

That's because Annastasia P. and Co. used Dutton Park station for political points, rather than focusing on the big issue with BUM which is lack of Park Rd station.

Re: Tennyson, I can see why they removed the service. The buses do the job adequately these days, ignoring school hours. BCC really should have put on some school buses going from the suburbs in the inner SE to the inner SW and vice-versa, though. As well as that - span of hours and frequency increase urgently required! Should be a 104 connecting to every off-peak service like so: Ipswich - 104 - Beenleigh. Possibly peak as well, although thanks to frequency a connection wouldn't matter so much.

I would think 6am - 9pm 7 days a week in order. Such a removal would also facilitate the (much needed) scrapping of the 105 and extending the 196. Provided there is a stop on the timetable marked as a timing point/interchange point from 196 Yeronga and 104 Corinda, I wouldn't be too worried.

So the issue of keeping Dutton Park had nothing to do with it is closer to The PA Hospital, then Park Rd?

And if only 196 was extended to Yeronga and Inndooroopilly like 105, unless you want this to happened to 104?

[#Metro]

So the issue of keeping Dutton Park had nothing to do with it is closer to The PA Hospital, then Park Rd?

Park Road is better IMHO, transfer to bus, brand new DDA compliant station with direct access into the hospital. The Dutton Park access point is a fair walk to the actual hospital entrance, and it is the back way as well.

Passengers currently using DP would shift to use Park Rd. Ive also not felt safe at Park Rd, the station being in a cutting and underneath a bridge with narrow platforms and visually obscured.

A station for Park Rd is the real problem.

I think if you ran the numbers, one would probably find the busway and transfer from BUZ 100 to be more than DP... just a speculation...

[darthcaligula666]

do you mean not felt safe at dutton park as opposed to park road? you described dutton pretty well above. the platforms at dutton are indeed pretty narrow, hopefully when upgraded it is improved significantly and gets some passenger information display screens on both platforms and that flash user friendly stuff.

[James]

So the issue of keeping Dutton Park had nothing to do with it is closer to The PA Hospital, then Park Rd?

And if only 196 was extended to Yeronga and Inndooroopilly like 105, unless you want this to happened to 104?

In theory it did, but only because there was too much whinging about having to transfer. A transfer at Park Road is no arduous task - up the lift, walk a few hundred metres, down the lift. Done. Versus Dutton Park with its ramps and awkward arrangement and walks along uneven footpaths to get to the PA. If you want a fast trip - walk the extra 600m or so from Park Road. If you want a trip with less walking (but slower), transfer. You can't have everything.

Second point - extend the 196 to Indooroopilly - what? Have you ever used the 105? The 105 is an awful way of getting across town and serves practically nobody. The Yeronga area does not have strong connections to the Indooroopilly area (and those who do, drive because the 105 is so awful).

If you are looking at the direct trip - Indooroopilly and the PA Hospital are two practically unrelated centres, and you are better off getting there via 444 + 66/Ipswich Rd service. Same could be said all the way down to about Sherwood, where the 104 kicks in as the better option anyway. If you're looking at the direct Indro - Yeronga/Yeerongpilly service, there's no need for it. There's minimal time benefit vs. going via CBD or Corinda at this point, especially with far higher frequency on these services (every 15 mins vs. hourly). Direct services everywhere is the reason we have some of the world's highest fares.

[ozbob]

UP steam hauled PASS Oxley (1079)!

Toowoomba Carnival of Flowers special.  Full train.

[Stillwater]

Ahead of G20, rubbish bins at Roma Street Station have had metal plates screwed over openings.  A sign says the bins have been secured 'for safety reasons' and passengers are asked to 'take your rubbish with you'.  The bins are enclosed.  Throughout the Sydney train network, rubbish bins at platforms are made of toughened clear plastic, with a clear plastic bag inside.  The rubbish is clearly visible, making it easy to see whether anything untoward is inside.  QR seems to have adopted this type of bin at some stations (Caboolture), but the concept should be extended across our network.

[techblitz]

 rather a surprise last night on an outbound cleveland line....one of the security guards walking up and down train repeatedly and asking people to remove thier feet from the seats.....just in my carriage alone he had to tell 3 people....and on his return run had to tell a passenger to remove them again... then politely told them if they must put thier feet up due to tiredness etc...put thier bag on the seat and then put thier feet on...

[transwatch]

So the issue of keeping Dutton Park had nothing to do with it is closer to The PA Hospital, then Park Rd?

And if only 196 was extended to Yeronga and Inndooroopilly like 105, unless you want this to happened to 104?

In theory it did, but only because there was too much whinging about having to transfer. A transfer at Park Road is no arduous task - up the lift, walk a few hundred metres, down the lift. Done. Versus Dutton Park with its ramps and awkward arrangement and walks along uneven footpaths to get to the PA. If you want a fast trip - walk the extra 600m or so from Park Road. If you want a trip with less walking (but slower), transfer. You can't have everything.

Second point - extend the 196 to Indooroopilly - what? Have you ever used the 105? The 105 is an awful way of getting across town and serves practically nobody. The Yeronga area does not have strong connections to the Indooroopilly area (and those who do, drive because the 105 is so awful).

If you are looking at the direct trip - Indooroopilly and the PA Hospital are two practically unrelated centres, and you are better off getting there via 444 + 66/Ipswich Rd service. Same could be said all the way down to about Sherwood, where the 104 kicks in as the better option anyway. If you're looking at the direct Indro - Yeronga/Yeerongpilly service, there's no need for it. There's minimal time benefit vs. going via CBD or Corinda at this point, especially with far higher frequency on these services (every 15 mins vs. hourly). Direct services everywhere is the reason we have some of the world's highest fares.

Sorry James showing concern for others is not whining.

But reading your own comments or whine, it seems you think it is easier up the lift, walk a few hundred metres, down the lift catch a bus to PA Hospital Bus station and do the same there, then walk direct off Dutton Park Station?

Or put it another way, have you actually walk to PA Hospital from Dutton Park and Park Rd Rail and ok Boggo Rd Bus Station?

Also James in writing "The 105 is an awful way of getting across town and serves practically nobody" I guess you spoke to everyone who catches the 105 to see if they agreed with your claim?

And so on this basic have you spoken to everyone that they agreed with your suggestions of catching 444 and 66?

" Direct services everywhere is the reason we have some of the world's highest fares".

Based on facts and you can prove it with evidence?

But common sense would show that having direct service is way better then catching one bus then changing onto another bus.

[#Metro]

But reading your own comments or whine, it seems you think it is easier up the lift, walk a few hundred metres, down the lift catch a bus to PA Hospital Bus station and do the same there, then walk direct off Dutton Park Station?

Or put it another way, have you actually walk to PA Hospital from Dutton Park and Park Rd Rail and ok Boggo Rd Bus Station?

Also James in writing "The 105 is an awful way of getting across town and serves practically nobody" I guess you spoke to everyone who catches the 105 to see if they agreed with your claim?

And so on this basic have you spoken to everyone that they agreed with your suggestions of catching 444 and 66?

" Direct services everywhere is the reason we have some of the world's highest fares".

Based on facts and you can prove it with evidence?

If DP was removed, people would just shift to PR. The whole thing is DDA compliant so no need to spend ca $10-20+ million (?) on a new DP station. (Yes, I have also walked the whole thing myself; I suspect if you can walk that distance you will have no issue using PR, and if you do, you probs need medical transport) I would rather prefer that the DP station is 'moved' to where Park Road is so that there is actually access for UQ Students from the Beenleigh line for ALL services and not just the 2 trains/hour that I suspect QR will run to make up for the botched infrastructure design.

You have to remember that the losers in the arrangement are UQ students coming from the BL line who will have to go all the way to W'Gabba and then transfer to a bus to take them back to UQ. At least with the PA/Park Road solution there is no backtracking and the whole thing is short, frequent and DDA already.

Route 105 is not really suitable for cross town purposes due to its EXTREME low frequency and timewasting loop, and yes I have used the service myself and observed pax loads. Hardly anyone uses it.

PROOF: http://web.archive.org/web/20130410113136/http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-105.png

Value for money: LOW
Patronage LOW



http://web.archive.org/web/20130410113136/http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-105.png

[transwatch]

So the issue of keeping Dutton Park had nothing to do with it is closer to The PA Hospital, then Park Rd?

Park Road is better IMHO, transfer to bus, brand new DDA compliant station with direct access into the hospital. The Dutton Park access point is a fair walk to the actual hospital entrance, and it is the back way as well.

Passengers currently using DP would shift to use Park Rd. Ive also not felt safe at Park Rd, the station being in a cutting and underneath a bridge with narrow platforms and visually obscured.

A station for Park Rd is the real problem.

I think if you ran the numbers, one would probably find the busway and transfer from BUZ 100 to be more than DP... just a speculation...

Wouldn't there be others, who wouldn't want to get off at Park Road and transfter to a bus and would rather walk straight off Dutton Park to a PA Hospital?

But Dutton Park and others does need to be upgraded and hopefully it well be with no more money being wasted on road tunnels?



And PA Hospital would have different entrance to different departments for example there is a entrance off Cornwall St.

[#Metro]

Wouldn't there be others, who wouldn't want to get off at Park Road and transfter to a bus and would rather walk straight off Dutton Park to a PA Hospital?

This is true, but should we spend ca $10-$20 million (upgrade) so they save ~ 3 minutes? There is a perfectly functional brand new station within sight distance. Why not use it and spend the money on making the tunnel entrance dive a bit more so there is station at Park Road for BaT or CRR or whatever the third iteration might pop out to be. That would allow UQ pax to use every train to get to UQ.

Walking is also good for health, particularly cardiac health.

But Dutton Park and others does need to be upgraded and hopefully it well be with no more money being wasted on road tunnels?

There was a station between South Bank and Park Road called Gloucester street. Removed. So there is a precedent for this.

[transwatch]

But reading your own comments or whine, it seems you think it is easier up the lift, walk a few hundred metres, down the lift catch a bus to PA Hospital Bus station and do the same there, then walk direct off Dutton Park Station?

Or put it another way, have you actually walk to PA Hospital from Dutton Park and Park Rd Rail and ok Boggo Rd Bus Station?

Also James in writing "The 105 is an awful way of getting across town and serves practically nobody" I guess you spoke to everyone who catches the 105 to see if they agreed with your claim?

And so on this basic have you spoken to everyone that they agreed with your suggestions of catching 444 and 66?

" Direct services everywhere is the reason we have some of the world's highest fares".

Based on facts and you can prove it with evidence?

If DP was removed, people would just shift to PR. The whole thing is DDA compliant so no need to spend ca $100 million (?) on a new DP station. (Yes, I have also walked the whole thing myself; I suspect if you can walk that distance you will have no issue using PR, and if you do, you probs need medical transport) I would rather prefer that the DP station is 'moved' to where Park Road is so that there is actually access for UQ Students from the Beenleigh line for ALL services and not just the 2 trains/hour that I suspect QR will run to make up for the botched infrastructure design.

You have to remember that the losers in the arrangement are UQ students coming from the BL line who will have to go all the way to W'Gabba and then transfer to a bus to take them back to UQ. At least with the PA/Park Road solution there is no backtracking and the whole thing is short, frequent and DDA already.

Route 105 is not really suitable for cross town purposes due to its EXTREME low frequency, and yes I have used the service myself and observed pax loads. Hardly anyone uses it.

PROOF: http://web.archive.org/web/20130410113136/http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-105.png

Value for money: LOW
Patronage LOW



http://web.archive.org/web/20130410113136/http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-105.png

If you walk from Park Road to PA Hospital I guess you noticed it is not a straight route?

Like James "nobody" claims with "If DP was removed, people would just shift to PR" have you actually spoken to anyone?

And you look at Journey Planner to know 100% "UQ students coming from the BL line who will have to go all the way to W'Gabba"?

And with "and yes I have used the service myself and observed pax loads. Hardly anyone uses it" do you catch the 105 ALL the time?

PS I just wish some would understand they don't speak for all commuters, like using the word "nobody" or they don't catch say the same bus ALL the time at different times?

[transwatch]

But reading your own comments or whine, it seems you think it is easier up the lift, walk a few hundred metres, down the lift catch a bus to PA Hospital Bus station and do the same there, then walk direct off Dutton Park Station?

Or put it another way, have you actually walk to PA Hospital from Dutton Park and Park Rd Rail and ok Boggo Rd Bus Station?

Also James in writing "The 105 is an awful way of getting across town and serves practically nobody" I guess you spoke to everyone who catches the 105 to see if they agreed with your claim?

And so on this basic have you spoken to everyone that they agreed with your suggestions of catching 444 and 66?

" Direct services everywhere is the reason we have some of the world's highest fares".

Based on facts and you can prove it with evidence?

If DP was removed, people would just shift to PR. The whole thing is DDA compliant so no need to spend ca $100 million (?) on a new DP station. (Yes, I have also walked the whole thing myself; I suspect if you can walk that distance you will have no issue using PR, and if you do, you probs need medical transport) I would rather prefer that the DP station is 'moved' to where Park Road is so that there is actually access for UQ Students from the Beenleigh line for ALL services and not just the 2 trains/hour that I suspect QR will run to make up for the botched infrastructure design.

You have to remember that the losers in the arrangement are UQ students coming from the BL line who will have to go all the way to W'Gabba and then transfer to a bus to take them back to UQ. At least with the PA/Park Road solution there is no backtracking and the whole thing is short, frequent and DDA already.

Route 105 is not really suitable for cross town purposes due to its EXTREME low frequency and timewasting loop, and yes I have used the service myself and observed pax loads. Hardly anyone uses it.

PROOF: http://web.archive.org/web/20130410113136/http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-105.png

Value for money: LOW
Patronage LOW



http://web.archive.org/web/20130410113136/http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review/Route-105.png

In the Newman, LNP, Council and Translink world recommendations is just that recommendations.

[STB]

So the issue of keeping Dutton Park had nothing to do with it is closer to The PA Hospital, then Park Rd?

Park Road is better IMHO, transfer to bus, brand new DDA compliant station with direct access into the hospital. The Dutton Park access point is a fair walk to the actual hospital entrance, and it is the back way as well.

Passengers currently using DP would shift to use Park Rd. Ive also not felt safe at Park Rd, the station being in a cutting and underneath a bridge with narrow platforms and visually obscured.

A station for Park Rd is the real problem.

I think if you ran the numbers, one would probably find the busway and transfer from BUZ 100 to be more than DP... just a speculation...

Wouldn't there be others, who wouldn't want to get off at Park Road and transfter to a bus and would rather walk straight off Dutton Park to a PA Hospital?

But Dutton Park and others does need to be upgraded and hopefully it well be with no more money being wasted on road tunnels?



And PA Hospital would have different entrance to different departments for example there is a entrance off Cornwall St.

The difference is whether one is willing to transfer via a major interchange to a busway that has buses departing every 5 or so minutes, for a 1 minute trip to PA Hospital Busway Station and then a 5 minute covered walkway walk to the main entrance to the PA Hospital (entirely covered for weather) or willing to walk up a hill among the elements via a back entrance to the hospital.  Not everyone uses Dutton Park, people from the Cleveland line generally get off at either Buranda or Park Road and catch any of the high frequency bus routes to PA Hospital Busway station and then walk via the covered walkway to the main entrance.

I've walked both (Dutton Park and via the busway at either Buranda or Park Road), and personally I much prefer going via the busway, less time to wait for a transfer, pretty much all flat with lifts and you are covered from the elements (rain, sun etc) for the most part.  If anything it'd only add probably an additional 5 minutes to someone coming from the Beenleigh line if the Dutton Park station was removed and you had to transfer at Park Road (assuming there were platforms built there), or transfer at Woolloongabba onto route 29 that also stops at the PA Hospital and departs about every 5-10minutes from Wolloongabba (about a 3min journey from Gabba to PA Hospital then a 5min walk to the hospital itself).

In the scheme of things, given that there's a busway with high frequency buses to UQ and PA Hospital, a TOD (Boggo Road development) and 3 rail lines, you can see why I much prefer Park Road being saved over Dutton Park by a long shot, and that the residents were misguided with their wants of keeping Dutton Park over Park Road, in fact I think they simply didn't understand that Park Road was far more important and frankly were a little selfish overlooking it with some loss aversion thrown in.

Dutton Park by the way if it was removed, would've still had a high frequency route 196 operating to the city, with the possibility of a bus service to PA Hospital post bus network review if that went ahead, which again due to the cries of the public, amplified by the media and encouraged by short sighted BCC politicians, it didn't and we're still stuck with terrible network design that's putting pressure on the fares.

[transwatch]

Wouldn't there be others, who wouldn't want to get off at Park Road and transfter to a bus and would rather walk straight off Dutton Park to a PA Hospital?

This is true, but should we spend ca $10-$20 million (upgrade) so they save ~ 3 minutes? There is a perfectly functional brand new station within sight distance. Why not use it and spend the money on making the tunnel entrance dive a bit more so there is station at Park Road for BaT or CRR or whatever the third iteration might pop out to be. That would allow UQ pax to use every train to get to UQ.

Walking is also good for health, particularly cardiac health.

But Dutton Park and others does need to be upgraded and hopefully it well be with no more money being wasted on road tunnels?

There was a station between South Bank and Park Road called Gloucester street. Removed. So there is a precedent for this.

Why is it some have answers, without looking at the wider picture?

[STB]

In the Newman, LNP, Council and Translink world recommendations is just that recommendations.

They were draft routes, open to change based on the response of the public with the Planners (if they had a chance) to work through that feedback and making adjustments.  They did it with no problems back in 2004-2005 when they did the outer regions - in my local region alone they made quite massive changes to what they put to the public initially, and the network has pretty much remained as it has today (bar some minor adjustments and some new routes) without any major issues.

[transwatch]

Wouldn't there be others, who wouldn't want to get off at Park Road and transfter to a bus and would rather walk straight off Dutton Park to a PA Hospital?

This is true, but should we spend ca $10-$20 million (upgrade) so they save ~ 3 minutes? There is a perfectly functional brand new station within sight distance. Why not use it and spend the money on making the tunnel entrance dive a bit more so there is station at Park Road for BaT or CRR or whatever the third iteration might pop out to be. That would allow UQ pax to use every train to get to UQ.

Walking is also good for health, particularly cardiac health.

But Dutton Park and others does need to be upgraded and hopefully it well be with no more money being wasted on road tunnels?

There was a station between South Bank and Park Road called Gloucester street. Removed. So there is a precedent for this.

Sight distance equals easy access if you walk?

[#Metro]

In the Newman, LNP, Council and Translink world recommendations is just that recommendations.

Disagree. LOW is a measurement and classification. 'Low' is not a reccomendation anymore than saying a triangle having 3 corners that add up to 180 degrees is a reccomendation. The actual reccomendation is listed in the text under 'route reccomendation'

If you walk from Park Road to PA Hospital I guess you noticed it is not a straight route?

The entrance from Dutton Park is not straight either, you have to walk and then turn left into the back of PA and walk further along a service road to access. It is also on a slope.

Like James "nobody" claims with "If DP was removed, people would just shift to PR" have you actually spoken to anyone?

Why would they not shift? Access is provided, and furhthermore I believe this is a way to access when one lives on the Cleveland rail line and has a destination to the PA or UQ.

And you look at Journey Planner to know 100% "UQ students coming from the BL line who will have to go all the way to W'Gabba"?

The journey planner does not have W'Gabba in it as it does not exist as a station yet.

And with "and yes I have used the service myself and observed pax loads. Hardly anyone uses it" do you catch the 105 ALL the time?

Why would TL publish LOW usage if the usage was not low? I've actually lived in that area, and used all those stations and services mentioned.

[transwatch]

So the issue of keeping Dutton Park had nothing to do with it is closer to The PA Hospital, then Park Rd?

Park Road is better IMHO, transfer to bus, brand new DDA compliant station with direct access into the hospital. The Dutton Park access point is a fair walk to the actual hospital entrance, and it is the back way as well.

Passengers currently using DP would shift to use Park Rd. Ive also not felt safe at Park Rd, the station being in a cutting and underneath a bridge with narrow platforms and visually obscured.

A station for Park Rd is the real problem.

I think if you ran the numbers, one would probably find the busway and transfer from BUZ 100 to be more than DP... just a speculation...

Wouldn't there be others, who wouldn't want to get off at Park Road and transfter to a bus and would rather walk straight off Dutton Park to a PA Hospital?

But Dutton Park and others does need to be upgraded and hopefully it well be with no more money being wasted on road tunnels?



And PA Hospital would have different entrance to different departments for example there is a entrance off Cornwall St.

The difference is whether one is willing to transfer via a major interchange to a busway that has buses departing every 5 or so minutes, for a 1 minute trip to PA Hospital Busway Station and then a 5 minute covered walkway walk to the main entrance to the PA Hospital (entirely covered for weather) or willing to walk up a hill among the elements via a back entrance to the hospital.  Not everyone uses Dutton Park, people from the Cleveland line generally get off at either Buranda or Park Road and catch any of the high frequency bus routes to PA Hospital Busway station and then walk via the covered walkway to the main entrance.

I've walked both (Dutton Park and via the busway at either Buranda or Park Road), and personally I much prefer going via the busway, less time to wait for a transfer, pretty much all flat with lifts and you are covered from the elements (rain, sun etc) for the most part.  If anything it'd only add probably an additional 5 minutes to someone coming from the Beenleigh line if the Dutton Park station was removed and you had to transfer at Park Road (assuming there were platforms built there), or transfer at Woolloongabba onto route 29 that also stops at the PA Hospital and departs about every 5-10minutes from Wolloongabba (about a 3min journey from Gabba to PA Hospital then a 5min walk to the hospital itself).

In the scheme of things, given that there's a busway with high frequency buses to UQ and PA Hospital, a TOD (Boggo Road development) and 3 rail lines, you can see why I much prefer Park Road being saved over Dutton Park by a long shot, and that the residents were misguided with their wants of keeping Dutton Park over Park Road, in fact I think they simply didn't understand that Park Road was far more important and frankly were a little selfish overlooking it with some loss aversion thrown in.

Dutton Park by the way if it was removed, would've still had a high frequency route 196 operating to the city, with the possibility of a bus service to PA Hospital post bus network review if that went ahead, which again due to the cries of the public, amplified by the media and encouraged by short sighted BCC politicians, it didn't and we're still stuck with terrible network design that's putting pressure on the fares.

And with "people from the Cleveland line generally get off at either Buranda or Park Road and catch any of the high frequency bus routes to PA Hospital Busway station and then walk via the covered walkway to the main entrance" I guess people using The PA Hospital doesn't come from other areas?

So once again I wish some would understand reality, they do not speak for everyone.