Planned closures - discussion

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/888457778079055872

[Golliwog]

Interesting when I was in Berlin recently. They had a weekend track closure on one of the U-Bahn lines (can't remember which one). It was a section that was a viaduct in the middle of a 4 lane road. What did they do for bus replacements? Articulated buses every minute or two, plus they temporarily painted a bus lane in each direction on the road.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/888659915836866560

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ohmyzander/status/888698027719901186

[Cazza]

https://translink.com.au/service-updates/141346
"Improvement works
Southbank and South Brisbane SAI's"

Can anyone tell me what SAI's are? Is it Station Announcement ... or something like that?
And is there any decent reason as to why trains terminate at Dutton Park rather then Park Rd? At least at Park Rd, you can get a BCC bus into the City from Boggo Rd Busway Station rather then a rail bus. I also feel it is easier to turn trains around there then at Dutton Park (more platforms, doesn't interfere with freight services etc.)

Cheers

[HappyTrainGuy]

Signaling. No trains permitted to run at all in the area. Overheads will be isolated as well so no electric trains could even run into Park Road if they wanted too.

[Cazza]

Signaling. No trains permitted to run at all in the area. Overheads will be isolated as well so no electric trains could even run into Park Road if they wanted too.

Ah ok. Thanks

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Rail line closures on Redcliffe Peninsula and Caboolture lines clash with major event

ORGANISERS of a major southeast Queensland festival are fuming after discovering TransLink will close three railway lines on the same weekend.

The Redcliffe Peninsula, Caboolture and Sunshine Coast lines will be closed all weekend.

The closures clash with Redcliffe KiteFest, which is expected to draw tens of thousands of people to Clontarf, as well as the Brisbane Lions' last home game for the season.

TransLink advised commuters, via its website, that buses would replace trains but said to allow an extra 60 minutes for travel time.

Redcliffe KiteFest is the first event of the Redcliffe Festival, which runs over three weekends.

Shane Newcombe, chief executive officer of Moreton Bay Industry and Tourism, the organisers of the event, said it was disappointing to learn of the scheduled trackwork, just days before the event, which runs on Saturday and Sunday at Pelican Park, Clontarf.

"To say that we are frustrated is an understatement," Mr Newcombe said.

"TransLink were informed back in March about the festival dates and our events team have been in regular contact with TransLink and the Department of Transport and Main Roads in the lead-up to this weekend's event.

"At no point has MBRIT or the Moreton Bay Regional Council received official notification about the interruption to services.

"I simply cannot understand the logic that has been applied by Queensland Rail and TransLink to schedule track closures, without any consultation, that coincide with this major event."

Mr Newcombe said MBRIT would work closely with TransLink to minimise inconvenience and disruptions to festival patrons.

While unable to catch a train to Kippa-Ring Station, Mr Newcombe said event goers could still drive and park at the station and catch one of the free shuttle buses to Pelican Park, Clontarf.

Free shuttle buses will also be running from the Redcliffe Showground.

Quest Community News has asked TransLink, The Department of Main Roads and Transport and Transport Minister Jackie Trad for comment.

For more information on Redcliffe Festival visit redcliffefestival.com.au

[ozbob]

Uh oh ..

https://twitter.com/TransLinkSEQ/status/900942892461473792

[ozbob]

Been trying for around 10 years or so to get some sort of system in place to try avoid these clashes.

No one really seems to care a toss sadly.  Just keeps on making grief for QR and the Governments ..

Really is a cluster-fuk ...

From Brisbanetimes click here!

Cup day 'ruined' by rail closure

Ipswich Cup 'ruined' by rail closure
Marissa Calligeros | June 12, 2008 - 11:59AM

Saturday's Ipswich Cup race meeting could be "ruined" by a Queensland Rail decision to close the Ipswich line this weekend to allow for routine maintenance and track construction.

An irate Ipswich Turf Club general manager Brett Kitching today slammed Queensland Rail, which has refused to back down on plans to carry out maintenance work on the biggest day in Ipswich's social calendar.

The Ipswich Cup meeting regularly attracts crowds of 20,000 people. However, it's feared more than 3000 could be sliced from that number on Saturday because of the Ipswich line closure between Corinda and Ipswich.

Train passengers will have to instead catch a bus from Corinda to attend the meeting.

"We don't need this at this late stage ... we're two days out from race (day) and there is mass confusion about what public transport will and won't be available," Mr Kitching told brisbanetimes.com.au.

"The club has worked hard in previous years to get as many people as possible using public transport.

"We have already had people call and say they won't be coming because of the hassles with public transport."

Robert Dow, from commuter group Rail: Back on Track, said the line closure could ruin the entire event.

"Folks plan for these events for long periods of time and it's heartbreaking to have it ruined by lack of consideration of transport authorities," Mr Dow said.

QR's general manager Paul Scurrah said it was not possible to delay the maintenance work.

"(Queensland Rail) acknowledges calls to reverse the decision but wishes to emphasise that the decision to close this line was made more than 12 months ago and was not made lightly,'' Mr Scurrah said.

"QR looked at alternative dates but it would have been too costly and created too many logistical difficulties to change it.''

Ipswich Mayor Paul Pisasale said the debacle highlighted long-standing communication problems between the community and transport authorities.

However, he did compliment Queensland Rail for adding an extra 25 express buses to services that will shuttle patrons from Corinda train station to Bundamba.

In contrast, Mr Dow said the extra express buses had come too late.

"There have been previous line closures on the Ipswich line for maintenance (on) weekends which have impacted severely on a number of community events in the last couple of years. People are becoming very sensitive to these impacts," Mr Dow said.

Railway lines were also closed from Corinda to Rosewood during the Ipswich Show. Line closures also caused major disruptions to the Oxley Village Street Fair last year.

"In May 2007, Rail Back on Track suggested to the minister for transport that a community database could be set up where various groups could register their events," Mr Dow said.

"This would help plan track closures that would have less of a negative impact on community events.

"We all appreciate the need for closures to allow track maintenance and upgrades, but surely it can be done in a more empathetic manner with regard to the community."

Footnote:

The Oxley Street Fair was ruined by a track closure in 2007. 

The streets and stalls had buses running up down.  Completely stuffed it.

Has never been attempted since because of the debacle.  Queenslander!   

^

Letter to the editor - Published Satellite News Paper May 23rd 2007

RAIL Back On Track is concerned with the apparent contempt the public transport commuter community is being shown by Queensland Transport.   Why was the recent weekend chosen to close the railway lines from Corinda to Rosewood?  Surely some consultation with the community could provide for weekend closures that do not disrupt in a major way community activities.  Folks plan for these events for long periods of time and it is heart breaking to have it ruined by a lack of consideration of transport authorities.

The Oxley Village Street Fair was ruined in a similar fashion.  The weekend that the Fair was on the railway was closed for routine track maintenance,  the chaos caused by buses disrupted the fair and kept many citizens away.  Morale is such now that the organisers are unlikely to attempt that again, such was the effect.

Surely when planning track closures, some consideration be given to the community events.  We all appreciate the need for track maintenance and so forth, but it can be done in an empathetic manner for the community.  It may be necessary to set up some sort of Community Event register that transport authorities could use when planning maintenance closures.

[Cazza]

To be fair, QR have the 12 month track work calendar published on their website.
https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/trackclosures/12monthcalendar

"Shane Newcombe, chief executive officer of Moreton Bay Industry and Tourism, the organisers of the event, said it was disappointing to learn of the scheduled trackwork, just days before the event, which runs on Saturday and Sunday at Pelican Park, Clontarf."

In all honesty, you can't blame QR for this one (as much as we'd like to). It is your own fault for not finding out prior to "days before the event". QR can't be responsible to send a "notification" about a track closure to every single organisation that might be holding an event on that weekend. I thought these people were adults, they need to do some stuff for themselves not just rely on other people.

It would be like cancelling an event at Suncorp with a 50 000 people crowd (yes, this is an extreme example). All they can do really is put some stuff on social media etc. and hope that people hear from this and word of mouth. It would be very difficult trying to email or call 50 000 people to tell them the game's been cancelled.

I feel like if people were planning an event say 6 months out and have a set date, they can easily change the date of the event if something unexpected happens (like a track closure). As said in the article above, it is much easier to change the date of an event before (and probably after) the date has been publicised than a track closure.

[#Metro]

To be fair, QR have the 12 month track work calendar published on their website.
https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/trackclosures/12monthcalendar

I think that Queensland Rail should produce a 12 month rolling calendar and put that URL on every single service disruption notice
and all timetables and publicise it.

URL needs to be simpler. Like https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/railcalendar

We just can't have the rail operator switching timetables around every time someone wants to run a festival, things just won't get
done in time.

For larger events (i.e. 35 000+, EKKA) then perhaps there can be some exception there, but as a general rule the rail calendar should be constructed as carefully as possible, and then set in stone IMHO.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

26th August 2017

Track closures and unnecessary grief !

Good Morning,

We note a significant track closure this weekend.

https://translink.com.au/service-updates/135811

Track closure - Caboolture, Redcliffe Peninsula and Sunshine Coast lines

From the first service on Saturday 26 August until the last service on Sunday 27 August, track works are scheduled on the Caboolture, Redcliffe Peninsula and Sunshine Coast lines.

This has caused some grief for a couple of major community events on this weekend.

1.  Couriermail Quest --> Rail line closures on Redcliffe Peninsula and Caboolture lines clash with major event

2.  Bridge to Brisbane -->  https://translink.com.au/plan-your-journey/event-transport/8256

The problem of track closures clashing with significant community events has been happening since we started RAIL Back On Track in 2006.

https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3025.msg197032#msg197032

Examples:

Cup day 'ruined' by rail closure --> https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3025.msg197032#msg197032

And

Letter to the editor - Published Satellite News Paper May 23rd 2007

RAIL Back On Track is concerned with the apparent contempt the public transport commuter community is being shown by Queensland Transport.   Why was the recent weekend chosen to close the railway lines from Corinda to Rosewood?  Surely some consultation with the community could provide for weekend closures that do not disrupt in a major way community activities.  Folks plan for these events for long periods of time and it is heart breaking to have it ruined by a lack of consideration of transport authorities.

The Oxley Village Street Fair was ruined in a similar fashion.  The weekend that the Fair was on the railway was closed for routine track maintenance,  the chaos caused by buses disrupted the fair and kept many citizens away.  Morale is such now that the organisers are unlikely to attempt that again, such was the effect.

Surely when planning track closures, some consideration be given to the community events.  We all appreciate the need for track maintenance and so forth, but it can be done in an empathetic manner for the community.  It may be necessary to set up some sort of Community Event register that transport authorities could use when planning maintenance closures.

In May 2007, Rail Back on Track suggested to the Minister for Transport that a community database could be set up where various groups could register their events. This would help plan track closures that would have less of a negative impact on community events.

We all appreciate the need for closures to allow track maintenance and upgrades, but surely it can be done in a more empathetic manner with regard to the community.

Queensland Rail does now publish a 12 month calendar and encourages event organisers to register their events.

>> https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/trackclosures/12monthcalendar

This is a great improvement from the dark days of 2007.  However there needs to be more attention to publicising this so that the wider community is aware and the grief for Queensland Rail and Governments is significantly reduced, as will be the disruption to community events. A true win win!

Thank you!

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/901131862260670470

[Cazza]

https://translink.com.au/service-updates/141361

Are trains running express Roma St -> Corinda via Tennyson? If not, then they should be (if slots are available between Y'Pilly and Roma St). But also, this is where the Tennyson train would be handy.

[tazzer9]

https://translink.com.au/service-updates/141361

Are trains running express Roma St -> Corinda via Tennyson? If not, then they should be (if slots are available between Y'Pilly and Roma St). But also, this is where the Tennyson train would be handy.

Would love that but I think the experiment from a few months back didn't go well enough for them to resume "via tennyson" services.   Problem is you still have the driver issue, so probably best not to be wasting drivers on low volume services.  Secondly, if you want the train to stop at yeerongpilly, then there aren't many train paths as all trains must use platform 1. 

[ozbob]

They have in the past on closures between Corinda <> Roma St run the services on the Ippy via Tennyson  (express Roma St <> Corinda).

Probably all to hard these days due to the crew situation.  There is no problem with train paths, particularly on weekends.

[Cazza]

https://translink.com.au/plan-your-journey/event-transport/8391
^Monster Jam

Track closure
Major track closure - all CBD lines
Please plan your journey in advance and allow for extra travel time (approximately 60 minutes) due to track works. Buses will replace trains in both directions.

Ohhhhhhhhh shitttttttt.

TransLink logic: All GC trains will make an additional stop a Banoon so catch the train*

*btw mate, no trains through the city that day #soznotsoz 

At least all of the bogans will be coming from the GC anyway huh?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Inner city is having parts of the overhead replaced.

[BrizCommuter]

Incorrect info on TransLink's website tonight. Closure from Roma St is actually from Park Rd. Now on replacement bus and likely to miss last 345 home 
Expect complaint tomorrow TransLink!

[ozbob]

https://translink.com.au/service-updates/141411

Major track closure - all train lines

From 10.15pm until the last service on Tuesday 19 September, there will be track closures on all train lines.

Buses will replace trains between Park Road, Roma Street, Milton, Albion and Ferny Grove stations.

Please plan your journey in advance and allow approximately 60 minutes extra travel time.

Normal train services will resume from the first service on Wednesday 20 September.

[BrizCommuter]

Blog post on last night's TransLink information failure, with bonus wrong go card advice too!
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2017/09/translinks-information-fail-again.html

[ozbob]

Blog post on last night's TransLink information failure, with bonus wrong go card advice too!
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2017/09/translinks-information-fail-again.html

Sent to all outlets. 

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/909911232051736576

[BrizCommuter]

^ Thanks. I've also put in a complaint to TransLink.

[#Metro]

What is the original source of the info? TL or QR?

[BrizCommuter]

The screenshot in the blog was from TransLink app. Same info as on TL's website. Nothing on TL or QR's Facebook - the latter just seems to be full of stuff irrelevant to a train operator anyway.

[verbatim9]

On Sunday October 17 I was caught out with the line shut down on Gold coast line after 7pm. Had to wait for 2 hours for a rail replacement bus at Helensvale. Due to an event not accounted for by QR there were not enough rail buses put on to cater for the crowds.  Lots of people waiting and very emotional wanting to get a rail replacement bus from Helensvale to Beenleigh. After a few calls to Translink a special replacement bus was sent to Helensvale to proceed Northbound to connect with trains at Beenleigh. The replacement bus didn't arrive until after 9pm and connected with last train out of Beenleigh. There were alot of people who missed their ongoing connections to other suburbs and the airport from Roma Street. A big stuff up I reckon.

Translink and QR should cater for extra replacement buses for line shut downs in case of special events so everyone can plan and make connecting services in a timely manner. It's shouldn't come down to people becoming emotional at stations because not enough replacement buses were scheduled in place of trains.

[tazzer9]

QR have generally been lazy when it comes to track closures.   QR will shut down an entire line on a weekend with fairly minimal works to be done on it. 
Bus replacements often with fairly crappy outside companies with buses not designed for this role.   And often have frequency worse than the train they are replacing.

They need to send a team down to sydney to study what they do during track closures.   Extra trains on other lines, only shutting lines when needed, having the state govt buses run replacements, good frequency and stopping patterns of buses, FREE buses. 

[ozbob]

Rail replacement buses are also free in Melbourne.  The situation here is very grey.  Officially the policy is you pay a fare if you can manage it by touching on at a station if possible , then moving to where the buses are and when you de-bus go to the station to touch off.  A very difficult situation for many.  Also fare gates add to the complexity.  My wife travelled on a rail replacement bus Corinda <> Roma St one day. Being a good citizen she did not touch off on leaving Corinda rail but when she arrived at Roma St had to convince QR staff to let her through the gates so that she could touch off on the correct side of the fare gates.  Has not bothered since.

I have been advised by Ministerial Staff in the past that fare enforcement is not carried out on rail replacement buses.  I am not certain that is always the case.  I have regularly been checked though when on a rail service immediately after a replacement bus, and vice versa.

Everything about TransLink is just a mess really.  Other jurisdictions don't go on with the bullsh%t that TransLink does.  It is TransLink that organises the replacement buses. No wonder there are problems between the operator QR and TransLink.  Shower of sh%t ...

https://translink.com.au/service-updates/about-track-works

How does a track closure affect me?

During planned track closures, buses will replace train services. You can find your station's rail replacement bus stop location or follow signage at the station.

Occasionally go card may not be available on replacement buses or at stations, however if you're able to, please use the go card reader at your station or purchase a paper ticket for travel prior to catching your rail replacement bus service.

In some cases it is not possible for customers to touch on or touch off their go card when regular scheduled rail services are replaced by bus services due to incidents or network maintenance.

We acknowledge that this may cause an inconvenience to you, and in circumstances where there are no readers available, you are permitted to board the rail replacement bus without a valid ticket. However, you will need to touch on or purchase a valid ticket when you transfer onto a standard or other TransLink service.

[HappyTrainGuy]

QR have generally been lazy when it comes to track closures.   QR will shut down an entire line on a weekend with fairly minimal works to be done on it. 
Bus replacements often with fairly crappy outside companies with buses not designed for this role.   And often have frequency worse than the train they are replacing.

They need to send a team down to sydney to study what they do during track closures.   Extra trains on other lines, only shutting lines when needed, having the state govt buses run replacements, good frequency and stopping patterns of buses, FREE buses.

Just because you don't see anyone working on the lines doesn't mean people aren't or the systems aren't. Take the closure for the L2P signaling. Hardly anyone on track but lots of engineers at control and signaling sub stations monitoring everything.

Buses have always been an issue due to Translink. As far as I know translink are still the ones that organise the shuttles with the bus operators prior to the closure. During the closure QR PSAs then liaise with the bus operators via a bus operator established com base (usually done by BBL or KBL). Usually QR staff are in phone communication with the bus com base while the bus operators have their own radio system to talk to each other. So communication can be very slow at times due to this setup.

[ozbob]

I noticed on an updated track closure notice this:

Queensland Rail is moving towards paperless notifications about noise, works and track closures.
You'll stillsee paper notices for a time, as we transition to the new system.
Sign up at: queenslandrail.com.au/EmailNotification

I am not sure that will be very successful with no track closure notices at stations.  Back to the old days of passengers waiting at stations for non existent trains?   For a while I used to travel up and down the Ippy line during closures letting passengers sitting on platforms know that there was a closure.  It hit the fan big time when the Premier was Transport Minister one weekend, which lead to the present system of notices.

Can someone please ask at the CRG next week how this is going to work? (I have childcare commitments will not be attending). 
I know many passengers, particularly weekend travellers do not have e communication tools.

[verbatim9]

You can have track closure notices flash up on LED panels on trains and screens at stations everyday 10 days prior to the track closure on that specific line

[#Metro]

^ good to see Rhonda from Utopia is busy.

[ozbob]

You can have track closure notices flash up on LED panels on trains and screens at stations everyday 10 days prior to the track closure on that specific line

Really?  What about folk who only travel at weekends, visitors and the like. And a lot of stations do not have screens at stations (most).  For example, Goodna, the busiest station pax wise west of Darra does not have PIDs. 



QR seem to determined to make themselves disappear in time hey?

[ozbob]

^ good to see Rhonda from Utopia is busy.

[SurfRail]

The lack of PIDS is inexcusable.  In Wellington most bus stops all over the region have them.  This is a place with 1/5th of our population and PT patronage.  Every station in Perth has some kind of PIDS, virtually every station in Melbourne, and nearly all of the Sydney ones are full blown LCDs.  Stations like Albion and Auchenflower virtually next to the city up here don't have anything (or at least visible on the platforms).

[verbatim9]

^^Can also have periodical automatic audio announcements prior to track work at stations without PIDs. Also while track work is in progress. Audio announcements can announce "Due to track work this station is closed until 00:00" "Replacement buses now in operation"

[ozbob]

^^Can also have periodical automatic audio announcements prior to track work at stations without PIDs. Also while track work is in progress. Audio announcements can announce "Due to track work this station is closed until 00:00" "Replacement buses now in operation"

Most of the audio announcements are not very clear, particularly with any sort of hearing impediment.    There are also restrictions on many stations as to its use. Despite these limitations we have suggested before that QR do announcements during closures - eyes glaze over ... all too hard.

No, it would be very dumb to remove the track closure notices at stations.  Very dumb indeed. 

[#Metro]

So I heard rumour that the latest idea from Rhonda (Utopia) is that QR and TransLink will discontinue twitter and other updates.

To save money and reach more people, train delays and changes will be sent to a psychic who will then use brainwave induction

(placing both hands on forehead while closing eyes and uttering "HUMMM" in front of a crystal ball at HQ)

to send the notifications directly to affected passengers' thoughts and minds.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

28th September 2017

Hello - has Queensland Rail reached peak stupidity?

Good Morning,

On a recent Queensland Rail track closure notice ( UPDATED Track closures_3-15 October 2017 ) I noted the following footnote:

Queensland Rail is moving towards paperless notifications about noise, works and track closures.
You'll still see paper notices for a time, as we transition to the new system.
Sign up at: queenslandrail.com.au/EmailNotification

Would Queensland Rail like to explain how folks who are not e-communication savvy will know there is a track closure happening?
Particularly folk who only travel at weekends, visitors and the like?

I am not sure that will be very successful with no track closure notices at stations.  Back to the old days of passengers waiting at stations for non existent trains?   For a while I used to travel up and down the Ipswich line during closures letting passengers sitting on platforms know that there was a closure.  It hit the fan big time when the Premier who was then the Transport Minister one weekend reacted to a telephone call from me on a Sunday when I discovered around 20 passengers waiting for a train at Goodna rail station during a track closure, which eventually lead to the present system of notices - which is working reasonably well in our experience.

A lot of stations do not have screens at stations (most).  For example, Goodna, the busiest station pax wise west of Darra does not have Passenger Information Displays (PIDs).  So that rules out PIDs being used as a reliable sign of closures.  Similarly most of the audio announcements are not very clear, particularly with any sort of hearing impediment.    There are also restrictions on many stations as to its use.

Would Queensland Rail please explain how ALL passengers will know there are track closures?  Will RAIL Back On Track volunteers have to drop down to their local stations once again to inform passengers waiting for non-existent trains that there are none and they should seek out a substitute bus?

One does wonder what on earth is going on at Queensland Rail these days.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Attached article Queensland Times 23rd Nov 2011 page 10