Planned closures - discussion

[Golliwog]

Some catch up closures will be occurring during  next week ..

Track closure due to flood recovery works

- Roma Street to Albion and Milton

Queensland Rail continues to repair and inspect rail lines and infrastructure across the state, following the effects of Cyclone Oswald. To accomodate recovery works at Fortitude Valley, tracks will be closed between Roma Street to Albion and Mitchelton according to the following details:

Dates: Monday 11 February to Thursday 14 Feburary
Time: Each night from 10.00pm to the last train service
Works include: Overhead wires and crossover repairs at Fortitude Valley, following damage caused by falling scaffolding.

Just out of interest, how much of the Ferny Grove line is/isn't bi directional? Because I understand they're only running Mitchelton-Ferny Grove because that's where the cross overs are, but from my use of the line when it's only running every 30 minutes, the crosses occur at/near Newmarket and at Keperra. So if the Bowen Hills-Roma St section is closed, if they had bi-di the whole way in, surely they could reverse trains at Windsor? Inbound services arrive at xx:19 and xx:49 and outbound services depart at xx:11 and xx:41 so there's a 20 minute turn around and trains just have to make sure they're on the right tracks at Mitchelton. 4tph would be more difficult but should be doable if the crossovers between Newmarket and Alderley are functional.

[somebody]

There's no crossovers near Windsor.  And the ones between Alderley and Newmarket are manually operated AIUI.  So you'd have to use the wrong direction track for a considerable distance, reducing capacity.

[petey3801]

Bi-Di starts/finishes at Mitchy. Simon is correct in saying the points at Le Geyt St area (between Mayne and Windsor) and in the Newmarket area are both manually operated.

[Golliwog]

There's no crossovers near Windsor.  And the ones between Alderley and Newmarket are manually operated AIUI.  So you'd have to use the wrong direction track for a considerable distance, reducing capacity.

I know. But if the tracks were bi-di, and trains are only running every 30 minutes like they do late at night then that reduced capacity is irrelevant. As long as the cross back to the right track at Mitchelton, then being on the wrong track Mitchelton to Windsor doesn't matter as there wouldn't be any trains for it to get in the way of.

You wouldn't be able to do it in peak, but it'd at least make future closures like this less irritating for passengers.

[somebody]

There's no crossovers near Windsor.  And the ones between Alderley and Newmarket are manually operated AIUI.  So you'd have to use the wrong direction track for a considerable distance, reducing capacity.

I know. But if the tracks were bi-di, and trains are only running every 30 minutes like they do late at night then that reduced capacity is irrelevant. As long as the cross back to the right track at Mitchelton, then being on the wrong track Mitchelton to Windsor doesn't matter as there wouldn't be any trains for it to get in the way of.

You wouldn't be able to do it in peak, but it'd at least make future closures like this less irritating for passengers.

Run one train up and back per hour per track?

Perhaps if it was bi-di already that would be reasonable.  I doubt it would justify making it bi-di now.  Probably cheaper to whack in a crossover west of Windsor actually, if the case you are trying to handle is Bowen Hills suburbans locked out.

[Golliwog]

Run one train up and back per hour per track?

Perhaps if it was bi-di already that would be reasonable.  I doubt it would justify making it bi-di now.  Probably cheaper to whack in a crossover west of Windsor actually, if the case you are trying to handle is Bowen Hills suburbans locked out.

Yeah that was my thinking. There's nothing other than signalling/cross over arrangements stopping it.

I wasn't exactly considering costs of one option versus another, but in the longer term, having bi-di signalling the whole way, and having those existing cross overs automated and not manually controlled would be useful for other scenarios as well. Though considering how old those points probably are I think you'd just replace them rather than keep and upgrade.

On the other hand though, if the proposed Mayne-FG line junction goes ahead (the one that would allow direct access from the yard out to FG to avoid running dead through the CBD) then I can't see anything that would stop FG trains joining those from Albion using the Ekka loop. That's probably the best thing to focus on for now.

[HappyTrainGuy]

On the other hand though, if the proposed Mayne-FG line junction goes ahead (the one that would allow direct access from the yard out to FG to avoid running dead through the CBD) then I can't see anything that would stop FG trains joining those from Albion using the Ekka loop. That's probably the best thing to focus on for now.

Focusing on that is just a waste of time because that will never happen. It will be a stabling access road only. For starters the two different signaling systems won't help as Mayne is not part of the UTC (its under local controls). There is only one thru road for traffic in the middle of the yard on the western side. Then comes the heavily enforced speed restrictions from the exhibition thru the yard to the new junction. And that's all before you well and truly get to all the safety regs of operating fork lifts, cars, walking around with trollies, unprotected crossings, vehicle movements, crews somewhat freely walking around the yard to perform tasks along with other train movements in the yard and a host of other duties that's currently undertaken. Its a maintainence facility. Not a thru line for passengers during delays.

Edit: Also the manual crossovers mentioned are only used for emergency operations hence why they aren't used for passenger services. They would also be well maintained just like any other crossover.

[petey3801]

It also depends on where the first overhead isolation area is on the Ferny Grove line (doesn't have to be a neutral section, there are none on the FYG). If this isn't until Mitchy or close to it, trains can't run any further towards the City anyway, whether or not the track is bi-di.

[somebody]

It also depends on where the first overhead isolation area is on the Ferny Grove line (doesn't have to be a neutral section, there are none on the FYG). If this isn't until Mitchy or close to it, trains can't run any further towards the City anyway, whether or not the track is bi-di.

What's that?  Not looking for "area for isolating overhead".

[Golliwog]

Ok, I wasn't aware of the separate signalling and other issues. That said, I'm not proposing this as a regular solution to delayed trains, just as a possibility when the option is do this, or no train service. However, I know I have virtually no experience with rail yard operations (other than what you can see from the FG flyover at Mayne) so I'll defer to you and petey on what's feasible.

[petey3801]

It also depends on where the first overhead isolation area is on the Ferny Grove line (doesn't have to be a neutral section, there are none on the FYG). If this isn't until Mitchy or close to it, trains can't run any further towards the City anyway, whether or not the track is bi-di.

What's that?  Not looking for "area for isolating overhead".

"area for isolating overhead" 

In all seriousness, it basically looks like a neutral section, except without the magnets. It's a section of overhead that has the same power supply powering both sides, however it can be used to isolate one side while keeping the other side live. It's how it is possible to have the subs energised through the City while the mains are isolated, etc.

Just had a quick look on google, this is what it looks like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SectionInsulator.png

[somebody]

So I presume that is what is used when isolating level crossings, the bit between Roma St station and the tunnel to the Merivale Bridge etc.

It's not possible to stop a 3-car with your panto isolated in the middle of that?

[ozbob]

I have noted of late that there seems to be relaxation of workers in the corridor to do basic maintenance in live corridors.  For a while this appeared to be excluded on our network.  Seems that there has been a change in some of the safe working procedures.

[HappyTrainGuy]

RTT - OH&S has really changed the ways that railways now undertake operations. The risk of legal action today compared to yesteyear is vastly different. The workers uniform used to be a very dark blue long sleeve shirt with long dark blue pants but now you can't take a step anywhere without wearing a bright orange vis jacket or hi vis clothing. Incidents and the railway regulator have also changed the way that work is undertaken.

Bob. Depends on the work being undertaken. Inspections can be undertaken from walking along the corridor or they can be undertaken from onboard the trains. When it comes to working in the corridor you tend to need a lot of paper work, undertake a safety briefing, have the correct people there with all the qualifications, sections of track might have trains diverted due to crews/vehicles on the track, red safety boards might have to go up and so on. Alot of trackwork/inspections now have been pushed back to be undertaken during the night out of the public view compared to previously. Last month Petrie had some of its OHLE checks at 2am. The change of parts to newer configs can also alter the inspection dates as too can changing the schedulles to fit in with other planned trackwork.

[petey3801]

So I presume that is what is used when isolating level crossings, the bit between Roma St station and the tunnel to the Merivale Bridge etc.

It's not possible to stop a 3-car with your panto isolated in the middle of that?

Depends on what it is, whether it is a section isolator or a neutral section. A neutral section is easily identified by the loss of power on the train (they also look a bit different - see the image on this page http://w3.siemens.com/smartgrid/global/en/rail-electrification/contact-lines/pages/neutral-section.aspx ). The loss of power is actually due to the MCB opening on the train, which is triggered by magnets beside the track. However, there is also a section of the overhead that has no power, which is the poly-pipe looking part. It is quite possible to get a 3-car train stuck in a neutral section and does happen every now and then.

With a section isolator (the photo from the other post), the train doesn't actually experience any loss of power. This is because of the way the isolator is made. On the photo from the other post, you can see the bits of poly-pipe stuff in the middle of a metal 'fork', so to speak. The wire from one side travels along the longer of the fork arms and finishes, while on the opposite fork, the wire for the next section starts at the start/end of the long arm as well, so there is no area where the pan is actually without contact with a live wire.

Hopefully that explains it. I do tend to ramble a bit so if it's still clear as mud, let me know and i'll try explain it a bit better.

[somebody]

Thanks petey, makes total sense now.  A pretty cunning arrangement really.  You can't use that isolator where different sides aren't guaranteed to be the same phase hence the need for the neutral section.  And the isolator doesn't prevent continuous power to passing trains.

That was exactly what I was looking for.

[petey3801]

Happy to help

[Set in train]

Bus replacement on the Gold Coast line last weekend. Again, a bus from Park Road to Robina/Varsity well and truly beat the usual train timetable, even more so on the return journey to Central. Pity I then had to catch the train back to Park Road car park (the driver was going back to depot).

[Golliwog]

Just got an email through the CRG:

Good morning,

Please be advised that an urgent track closure is required on the Sunshine Coast and Caboolture lines this weekend, to enable Queensland Rail to carry out important signal upgrades between Mayne and Petrie.

These works will improve the on-time running, reliability and safety of Sunshine Coast and Caboolture services.

The details of the track closure are as follows:

From midnight Saturday 23 February to 5.00am Sunday 24 February, all trains between Northgate and Petrie will be replaced by buses in both directions.

Be sure to plan your journey in advance and allow extra travel time (up to 60 minutes).

If you have any questions please contact the Community Engagement Team for more information.


Thank you and kind regards

[Stillwater]

Why is it urgent?   

Why is someting like this not predicted and, therefore, scheduled?  :conf

Once again, it reflects poor management of these lines.  It is happenstance management -- wait, do nothing until it becomes absolutely urgent.    And then make it a patch up job. 

Still, we must be grateful for small mercies.   

[somebody]

Urgent things do happen.  Not sure if you are basing your comments on anything.

[Golliwog]

Urgent things do happen.  Not sure if you are basing your comments on anything.

After the rains in recent weeks, could be lots of reasons.

This is true, but the email does specifically say "important signal upgrades." Upgrades, not repairs.

[ozbob]

Maybe rather than continuing to repair a failing system they have elected to upgrade urgently.

Closure is minimal and at a time when it will be facilitated with not much inconvenience.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Sucks if you're anyone on that early morning charter train to Landsborough

[red dragin]

Perhaps related to the signal drama's at Strathpine a little while ago and the parts are ready to replace the temporary fix?

[longboi]

Urgent things do happen.  Not sure if you are basing your comments on anything.

After the rains in recent weeks, could be lots of reasons.

This is true, but the email does specifically say "important signal upgrades." Upgrades, not repairs.

Could this just be a question of semantics?

[ozbob]

Understand there will be some more late night closures on the Caboolture line to sort out signalling etc.  More formal advice expected later today ...

[ozbob]

March closures as advised by Queensland Rail

Roma Street to Rocklea and Murarrie track closure
Sat 2 March - Sun 3 March 2013
From the first train Saturday 2 March to the last train Sunday 3 March, all trains on the Cleveland and
Beenleigh lines will be replaced by buses in both directions between Roma Street and Rocklea and
Murarrie.
Services will return to normal Monday 4 March.

Northgate to Petrie track closure
Sat 2 March - Sun 3 March 2013
From midnight Saturday 2 March to 6.00am Sunday 3 March and from 9.30pm to last train Sunday 3
March, all trains on the Caboolture/Sunshine Coast lines between Northgate and Petrie will be
replaced by buses in both directions.
Services will be affected from 11.30pm Saturday and from 9.00pm Sunday.
Services will return to normal Monday 4 March.

Redbank to Rosewood track closure
Sun 10 March 2013
From the first train until 6.00pm Sunday 10 March, all trains on the Ipswich/Rosewood line between
Redbank and Rosewood will be replaced by buses in both directions.
Services will return to normal Monday 11 March.

Northgate to Petrie track closure
Sat 9 March - Sun 10 March 2013
From midnight Saturday 9 March to 6.00am Sunday 10 March and from 9.30pm to last train Sunday
10 March, all trains on the Caboolture/Sunshine Coast lines between Northgate and Petrie will be
replaced by buses in both directions.
Services will be affected from 11.30pm Saturday and from 9.00 Sunday.
Services will return to normal Monday 11 March.

Bowen Hills to Shorncliffe and Gympie North track closure
Sat 16 – Sun 17 March 2013
From the first train Saturday 16 March to the last train Sunday 17 March, all trains on the Shorncliffe,
Caboolture and Sunshine Coast lines from Bowen Hills to Shorncliffe and Gympie North will be
replaced by buses in both directions.
Service will return to normal Monday 18 March 2013.

Redbank to Rosewood track closure
Sun 17 March 2013
From the first train until 6.00pm Sunday 17 March, all trains on the Ipswich/Rosewood line between
Redbank and Rosewood will be replaced by buses in both directions, due to track works.
Services will return to normal Monday 18 March.

South Brisbane, Milton to Albion and Ferny Grove track closure
Fri 22 - Sat 23 March 2013
From midnight Friday 22 March to 5.00am Saturday 23 March, all trains between South Brisbane,
Milton, Albion and Ferny Grove will be replaced by buses in both directions.
Services will be affected from 11.30pm and will return to normal Sunday 24 March.

Bowen Hills to Ferny Grove
Sat 23 – Sun 24 March 2013
From first train Saturday 23 March to 8.00pm Sunday 24 March, all trains on the Ferny Grove line
between Bowen Hills and Ferny Grove will be replaced by buses in both directions.
Services will return to normal Monday 25 March.

South Brisbane to Milton, Albion and Ferny Grove track closure
Sun 24 March 2013
From 8.00pm to last train Sunday 24 March, all trains on all lines between South Brisbane, Milton,
Albion and Ferny Grove will be replaced by buses in both directions.
Service will be affected from 7.30pm and will return to normal Monday 25 March.

Northgate to Petrie track closure
Sat 23 March - Sun 24 March 2013
From midnight Saturday 23 March to 6.00am Sunday 24 March, all trains on the
Caboolture/Sunshine Coast lines between Northgate and Petrie will be replaced by buses in both
directions.
Services will be affected from 11.30pm and will return to normal Monday 25 March.

Northgate to Caboolture track closure
Sun 24 March 2013
From 9.30pm to last train Sunday 24 March, all services on the Caboolture/Sunshine Coast lines
between Northgate and Caboolture will be replaced by buses in both directions.
Services will be affected from 9.00pm will return to normal Monday 25 March.

Darra to Rosewood
Thurs 28 March – Mon 1 April 2013
(Easter long weekend)
From 8.30pm Thursday 28 March to the last train on Monday 1 April, all trains on the
Ipswich/Rosewood and Richlands lines between Darra and Rosewood will be replaced by buses in
both directions.
Services will be affected from 8.00pm Thursday and will return to normal Tuesday 2 April.

Be sure to plan your journey in advance and allow for up to 60 minutes extra travel time.
For more information and updates visit www.translink.com.au or call 13 12 30 anytime.

[Fares_Fair]

Wow, every weekend in March (except week 5) has a weekend track closure for Caboolture/Sunshine Coast commuters.

I would hope this will result in real improvements for our part of the network. 

[petey3801]

Wow, every weekend in March (except week 5) has a weekend track closure for Caboolture/Sunshine Coast commuters.

I would hope this will result in real improvements for our part of the network. 

Most weekends for the next 6 months or more have closures on the Ipswich/Rosewood lines, once again. Caboolture/SC have it good!

[Fares_Fair]

Wow, every weekend in March (except week 5) has a weekend track closure for Caboolture/Sunshine Coast commuters.

I would hope this will result in real improvements for our part of the network. 

Most weekends for the next 6 months or more have closures on the Ipswich/Rosewood lines, once again. Caboolture/SC have it good!

I'm not complaining about it at all Petey.
I understand that.
Just hoping it will improve things dramatically.

[somebody]

I thought Cityrail's 1 in 4 weekend outage was kind of heavy.

[Golliwog]

South Brisbane, Milton to Albion and Ferny Grove track closure
Fri 22 - Sat 23 March 2013
From midnight Friday 22 March to 5.00am Saturday 23 March, all trains between South Brisbane,
Milton, Albion and Ferny Grove will be replaced by buses in both directions.
Services will be affected from 11.30pm and will return to normal Sunday 24 March.

Bowen Hills to Ferny Grove
Sat 23 – Sun 24 March 2013
From first train Saturday 23 March to 8.00pm Sunday 24 March, all trains on the Ferny Grove line
between Bowen Hills and Ferny Grove will be replaced by buses in both directions.
Services will return to normal Monday 25 March.

South Brisbane to Milton, Albion and Ferny Grove track closure
Sun 24 March 2013
From 8.00pm to last train Sunday 24 March, all trains on all lines between South Brisbane, Milton,
Albion and Ferny Grove will be replaced by buses in both directions.
Service will be affected from 7.30pm and will return to normal Monday 25 March.

Apparently Roma St station isn't fully closed for those two closures. http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/details/1361401231 has Beenleigh, Cleveland and Richlands services terminating at Roma St, while everything else (i.e. the paired lines) run via the Exhibition loop.

[red dragin]

So FG line closed all weekend, south bris etc Friday & Sunday night only?

Bit hard to follow.

[Golliwog]

So FG line closed all weekend, south bris etc Friday & Sunday night only?

Bit hard to follow.

Yeah. I dislike the fact that in the closure for Friday night/Saturday morning, it says ALL services return to normal at 5am and makes no mention of the fact the the FG line is closed all weekend.

[somebody]

So FG line closed all weekend, south bris etc Friday & Sunday night only?

Bit hard to follow.

Yeah. I dislike the fact that in the closure for Friday night/Saturday morning, it says ALL services return to normal at 5am and makes no mention of the fact the the FG line is closed all weekend.

That's not something to "dislike", that's a mistake.  Pure and simple.

[Golliwog]

That's not something to "dislike", that's a mistake.  Pure and simple.

Or it could be both...

In all seriousness though, I mentioned that they should link the three closures when I gave them feedback about the CBD closure notices as originally they were both labelled as they were in the QR message as Milton and South Brisbane to Albion and Ferny Grove closures, however in their details they had the services continuing to Roma St so I queried it. Evidently they acted on one suggestion but not the other.

[Jayster]

As long time visitor here I know that most of you guys seem to be in the know about the goings on of rail in Queensland. That said I was looking at all the corridor closures that QR seem to go through, in particular those that shut-down almost an entire third of the network on a semi-regular basis, and with seemingly no end in sight I have to ask if anyone has any idea if all of this drastic maintenance is actually going anywhere?

Seriously is there any where else in the developed world where it's considered okay for a state rail operator like Queensland Rail to shut down entire sectors of the network for 'corrective and preventative' maintenance for what seems like every weekend of the calendar year?   

[ozbob]

Welcome Jayster.  Fair questions you raise ..

Most if not all the major rail operators now schedule regular closures for maintenance etc.   In SEQ we do have a lot, partly because the system did get knocked around a bit in 2011, but there also has been a maintenance deficit, and there is a catch up period.  A lot of closures have been associated with upgrades, eg. Corinda to Darra amplification, stations, and so forth.  A lot of preventative maintenance is done overnight and sometimes during the day, but every now and then closures are needed to upgrade power, signals, replace points and the like.  I expect that in a year or so we will finally settle down a bit, but no doubt MBRL will cause a whole lot of closures when Petrie  - Lawnton is upgraded as well.

Some of the others

Transperth --> http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/ServiceUpdates/Trackupgradeprogram.aspx

MetroMelbourne --> http://ptv.vic.gov.au/news/news-promotions/planned-disruptions-to-train-and-tram-services

CityRail Sydney --> http://www.cityrail.info/service_updates/

[HappyTrainGuy]

Not to forget the motorway upgrade there also had them closing it down for their own scope of works.

The weekends closure had to have a large portion of the network closed for the signaling upgrades. The northgate signal upgrade extended back to as far as Geebung-Carseldine IIRC and at one point when one of the track machines at Geebung-Sunshine or the crews working at the signaling at Sunshines level crossing set off the level crossing fail safe which put down the boomgates back at Carseldine. Since diggers were required to dig out ballast the overheads on the Shorncliffe line, Caboolture line and inner city line had to be shut off. Because it would have affected a large bit of the network other works were delayed/brought forward/schedulled in for the same closure. A few stations had their entire station lighting cleaned/checked/replaced/platforms cleaned. Sunshine had some other works as to did Burpengary. Geebung had engeering crews working on the new overpass. I think Morayfield or Narangba had its level crossing closed for some traffic light upgrade or something. The new overpass at Morayfield had works done that required access to the corridor. There were also a few things that required access in the corridor at Bray Park and Morayfield. Some damaged fencing was repaired after the storms/damaged by vandals. Sandgate station went into overtime with crews there. Nambour had trees/branches/damaged fencing repaired.

MBRL works would close the line when the bridge duplication goes through to connect signaling/tracks. Any works done on the gympie road overpass. The northern end would have minimal downtime because the third road and stabling will be removed and overheads reinstalled at a later date. New substation extension and of course any platform raising/instillation works/signaling and track connection.