New fare strategy - articles and discussion

[Fares_Fair]

That only applies to paper ticket users.  Who I don't have much sympathy for.

They are still fare paying customers who are paying a premium on their fares

+1
They are being ripped off - great for the tourism industry, hey ?
Go card is still only 80% used in spite of the oppressive price differential of paper tickets and that speaks volumes about Go card.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

^ Why no sympathy for paper ticket users ?

^ Do you mean for bus users or public transport generally ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

Particularly bus users, but it doesn't make any sense to use paper tickets any more, even for rail users or tourists really.  Perhaps Tourists flying out of Cooloongatta.

It still costs to have AVVMs or ticket sellers.

Paper ticket users wear tin foil hats!

[dwb]

Paper ticket users wear tin foil hats!

Sounds like you might be needing to don fireproof suit soon

[HappyTrainGuy]

[Fares_Fair]

^ Why no sympathy for paper ticket users ?

^ Do you mean for bus users or public transport generally ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

Particularly bus users, but it doesn't make any sense to use paper tickets any more, even for rail users or tourists really.  Perhaps Tourists flying out of Cooloongatta.

It still costs to have AVVMs or ticket sellers.

Paper ticket users wear tin foil hats!

So are you calling for a reduction in QR staff attendants that sell tickets ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

^ Why no sympathy for paper ticket users ?

^ Do you mean for bus users or public transport generally ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

Particularly bus users, but it doesn't make any sense to use paper tickets any more, even for rail users or tourists really.  Perhaps Tourists flying out of Cooloongatta.

It still costs to have AVVMs or ticket sellers.

Paper ticket users wear tin foil hats!

So are you calling for a reduction in QR staff attendants that sell tickets ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

I wouldn't put it like that.  Surely that's part of the reason for going with the new tech.

[Fares_Fair]

Unfortunately that is exactly what will happen under the no paper ticket scenario.
Can you imagine what things will be like without the human element at the 'coal face'.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Gazza]

To be honest I think it makes more sense having front line staff out on the platform rather than cooped away in the office.... If someone needs help buying a ticket then the staff member would operate the machine for them.

Edit: Added bonus is that if said customer doesn't have any impariments, then they would see how it gets done, and wouldn't need a staff member to help them again.

In Vancouver we took the Skytrain from the airport, and they had a couple of Translink staff members who greeted people, were armed with network maps, and helped people use the ticket machines if they needed it.
The station had no actual ticket booth though.

[somebody]

Unfortunately that is exactly what will happen under the no paper ticket scenario.
Can you imagine what things will be like without the human element at the 'coal face'.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

I think there will be less queuing.

To be honest I think it makes more sense having front line staff out on the platform rather than cooped away in the office.... If someone needs help buying a ticket then the staff member would operate the machine for them.

This is a great point.

[Gazza]

I still favour the strategy of increasing the price penalty for using paper, and making it easier to get a refund.  It's not like in jurisdictions where you need to have a photo ID for a permanent transit card.  Go Cards can be had so easily.

So you're advocating maintaining paper ticket infrastructure across the entire network so we can go on charging infrequent/tourists extra?

I think it just makes much more sense to have 100% of users on Go Card.

[somebody]

So what do you when someone leaves their Go Card at home?  Make them buy another one?  Go Card Lite?

[Gazza]

Yeah, just make them spend $1-$2 on a new one.

Problem?

[somebody]

Yeah, just make them spend $1-$2 on a new one.

Problem?

Potential fare evasion.

[Gazza]

And that risk is worth maintaining the entire paper ticket infrastructure network for?

PS, if we are worried about fare evasion, why isn't the rail fixed fare set to $16.20 yet (Varsity/almost Nambour)


PS, in case I never articulated this point, the $1-$2 fee would be non refundable, in order to cover the cost of card production.

[somebody]

So you are going to sell Go Cards on every current non pre paid bus route?  That would require new infrastructure.

I don't see the need to invent a new system.  What we have is good enough.  We just need to promote greater take up of the Go Card, which can be done with a few best practice techniques.

In answer to your question, re: $16.20 fixed fares, I assume that Robina and Varsity are closed stations now.  Makes it much more difficult to fare evade in this way.  Although you can do so if heading to South Bank in one direction only.

[Fares_Fair]

Incidently, I have been told that fare gates are being installed at Nambour as part of its $3.3m DDA upgrade works.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Gazza]

So you are going to sell Go Cards on every current non pre paid bus route?  That would require new infrastructure.

Rubber bands to hold a stack of them together I guess?

[HappyTrainGuy]

As it is now if your travelling from Gympie/Nambour/Gold Coast and had the time to buy a new go card each morning you can get away with fare evasion by racking up the debt on the return journey and binning the card.

[somebody]

As it is now if your travelling from Gympie/Nambour/Gold Coast and had the time to buy a new go card each morning you can get away with fare evasion by racking up the debt on the return journey and binning the card.

Indeed.  And that is why the original deposit was $10.  This has now been reduced to $5, which does indeed open a loophole.  Reducing it further to $2 would widen that loophole.

So you are going to sell Go Cards on every current non pre paid bus route?  That would require new infrastructure.

Rubber bands to hold a stack of them together I guess?

You'd also need some sort of cash register for the sold cards.

[Gazza]

You'd also need some sort of cash register for the sold cards.

Wouldn't this just be done on the existing console?

[colinw]

I can see no reason this wouldn't work on any bus route where cash is already accepted to top up cards onboard, e.g. Clarks Logan City. Just keep a stash of ready to go cards (complete with world class rubber band to hold them together), and then accept an immediate top up plus small surcharge ($1 or $2). People wanting to buy a paper ticket could be redirected to a Go Card very easily.

Just need a glossy brochure now, and a plan to implement it by 2031.

[somebody]

You'd also need some sort of cash register for the sold cards.

Wouldn't this just be done on the existing console?

Could require modifications.  I suppose if the Go Cards with the "world class rubber band" had a negative pre-loaded balance, it would work with present technology.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Indeed.  And that is why the original deposit was $10.  This has now been reduced to $5, which does indeed open a loophole.  Reducing it further to $2 would widen that loophole.

If I lived and used Lawnton/Yeerongpilly stations where GoCards were now two bucks a pop I'd be buying new go cards each day and putting $5 of credit on it (4.90 or something each way) and then throwing the card away with $4 of debt. Let alone anyone else that lived beyond those stations and bought new cards for each trip.

[dwb]

So you are going to sell Go Cards on every current non pre paid bus route?  That would require new infrastructure.

Rubber bands to hold a stack of them together I guess?

+1 lol.

[dwb]

You'd also need some sort of cash register for the sold cards.

Wouldn't this just be done on the existing console?

Could require modifications.  I suppose if the Go Cards with the "world class rubber band" had a negative pre-loaded balance, it would work with present technology.

'

If the cards were a flat $10 each including credit on the card, then it shouldn't be that hard.... drivers union might argue that it makes it more dangerous for drivers as they'd be carrying more cash, but honestly I don't think this would be true, tickets are expensive as they are, and if you reduce the number of people using cash (by upping the go card use) then overall they'd be carrying LESS, not more cash. If this is beyond the companies and TL's ability, then I'd be gobsmacked.

[dwb]

To be honest I think it makes more sense having front line staff out on the platform rather than cooped away in the office.... If someone needs help buying a ticket then the staff member would operate the machine for them.

Edit: Added bonus is that if said customer doesn't have any impariments, then they would see how it gets done, and wouldn't need a staff member to help them again.

In Vancouver we took the Skytrain from the airport, and they had a couple of Translink staff members who greeted people, were armed with network maps, and helped people use the ticket machines if they needed it.
The station had no actual ticket booth though.

+1 on all fronts.

[SurfRail]

To be honest I think it makes more sense having front line staff out on the platform rather than cooped away in the office.... If someone needs help buying a ticket then the staff member would operate the machine for them.

My personal observations at Nerang these past few weeks have been that this arrangement works very well downstairs.  The station is coping with only one ticket machine, and QR staff are usually there assisting the uninitiated.

[ozbob]

QCOSS FORUM REPORT TRANSPORT DISADVANTAGE 30 AUGUST 2011 ==> click here!  (External PDF)

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Commuters abandon public transport after fares hike

Commuters abandon public transport after fares hike
Tony Moore
November 15, 2011 - 3:00AM

Brisbane Lord Mayor Graham Quirk has seized on falling bus patronage figures to launch a broadside against rising public transport fares.

Bus statistics released by Brisbane City Council showed there were 230,357 fewer passengers on Brisbane buses from July to October 2011 compared to the same period in 2010..

Weekends, late night and off-peak travel showed the biggest drop.

The state government introduced 15 per cent annual increases for public transport fares in January 2010.

Since then, passenger growth dropped from 6.5 per cent (2009-10) to 2.03 per cent (2010-11) to a 0.8 per cent decline in the first four months of the 2011-12 financial year.

Cr Quirk said the state government's decision to lift fares by 15 per cent each January was having a real impact.

"In the last 12 months we've seen Brisbane's buses go from record growth to their worst performance in over a decade and it's clear the State Government's massive fare hikes are the reason," he said.

"For months I've been calling on the transport minister to reintroduce the daily travel ticket and cap fare increases to inflation.

"We need equitable solutions that will benefit everyone - not just frequent users – and it's now time for action. The state government cannot hide behind the floods any more."

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said the state government's share of bus funding had helped deliver a 62.5 per cent increase in patronage in Brisbane's buses over seven years.

Ms Palaszczuk said it was the council's decision to reduce its share of the bus funding for new buses that was at fault.

"Brisbane City Council has often claimed credit for patronage increases in the past, however, they have been made possible due to the Queensland government's investment in such initiatives as 26 kilometres of world-class busway since 2001 and additional funding to buy and run 500 buses in the past four years," she said.

"However, in order to meet future growth and build on the record patronage levels set last year, the fare increases are required to invest in new buses from the Brisbane City Council.

"Campbell Newman allowed council's contribution to the running of Brisbane Transport to slump from 48 per cent in 2004 to a miserable 37 per cent last year, leaving the state government to foot the bill."

However, train and ferry statistics from Translink also show the passengers are declining.

Translink statistics showed 12.9 million fewer train trips for the three months from April to June 2011 compared to the same period last year - a 16 per cent slump in journeys.

There were 1.09 million fewer ferry trips taken in the same time period.

The Translink statistics report also showed customers believed trains, buses and ferries had slumped in the "affordability" stakes.

Translink's monthly customer reaction surveys for affordability have dropped to the same level as January 2010, when Translink's first 15 per cent fare increase began.

A Translink spokesman would not rule out the impact of fares, but said customers rated "frequency and reliability" as the most important factors when choosing public transport.

"Translink has recognised the future needs by adding 608,000 weekly seats in the past two years and we will deliver another 310,000 additional weekly seats this year," the spokesman said.

Cr Quirk will launch a public relations campaign to try to encourage people back to public transport this morning.

The state government collects fares from buses, trains, CityCats and ferries and in turn provides a subsidy to Brisbane City Council to help build the council's buses.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/commuters-abandon-public-transport-after-fares-hike-20111114-1nfgi.html

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

15 November 2011

Better late then never ...

Greetings,

The Lord Mayor thinks the present fare structure is a failure!
==> http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/commuters-abandon-public-transport-after-fares-hike-20111114-1nfgi.html

We have been challenging the fare structure for years.   Amazing what looming elections achieve.  Have a read here ==>  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=429.0

The end result is what we are now seeing.

Excuse the cynicism.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

===================

Media release 15 October 2011 re-released 15 November 2011

SEQ: The TransLink Tracker confirms failing fare structure

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has highlighted the failing fare structure for public transport in south-east Queensland.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The latest TransLink Tracker for the last quarter of the 2010-11 financial year has again confirmed why the go card fare structure needs urgent enhancements (1)."

"As reported on page 13 of the Tracker affordability continues its downwards slide, and in turn patronage has fallen (2).  This is a perverse outcome.  A fare structure that encourages maximum public transport utilisation around the clock is needed."

"There is plenty of room to move within the constraints of the present fare structure on the go card.  For example off peak fares should be increased to at least 30% (presently 15%, planned to go to 20% January 2012).  Extension of the journey cap, and adjusting the threshold for the 50% fare reduction could also be easily implemented."

"It is essential that the community is not forced off public transport because of rapidly escalating fare increases.  The costs in terms of congestion, road trauma and its massive economic and social harms, and lessened environmental impacts are all compelling reasons to turn the fare tide and encourage people out of their cars."

"Clearly, it is time the authorities acted!"

References:

1.  http://translink.com.au/resources/about-translink/reporting-and-publications/2010-11-quarterly-report-apr-to-jun.pdf

2.  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6850.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[#Metro]

I am against capping fares to inflation - that effectively means no new funding in real terms, something not really sensible given that the network probably needs to grow a lot to cope with future urban growth forecasts and everyone's wishlists of new services.

I suspect that the the falls in patronage are worst on the non-frequent parts of the network. Pax here would be disproportionately affected because the price would go up but the service level would remain the same. This low frequency services probably make up a good 1/3 of the bus network (since BUZ carries 25% of the total load). Same story for trains - prices increase but the off-peak frequency effectively remains constant, so in real terms the cost of rotten apples increases....

I'd like to see the statistics for BUZ again (updated, maybe this can be forwarded to PTAG again) compared against a random control set of non-BUZ and rocket routes. If fare hikes and frequency are the reason, we should see a drop in the non-frequent services patronage but a much diminished or no effect on the BUZ network.

So in this case the fastest antidote to this might not be just discounting rotten apples--- it may well be boosting train services to run frequently on all major lines. Most people in Brisbane live near a train station, there are 85 within the BCC area, outnumbering busway stations 3:1. The frequency on that hasn't really changed but the price has. When you increase the price of rotten apples but don't do anything about the quality of the end product, it isn't surprising that pax go down...

[ozbob]

We have argued long and hard for frequency increases both rail and bus, and will continue to do so.

The danger here of course, is the fares and poor frequency are turning away punters, which the authorities then use to justify doing little about addressing the root cause which is the abysmal frequency out of peak.

Increasing off peak discount will cause an increase in pax which will further help increase off peak frequency.   The present slide to mediocrity must be turned.

I am optimistic that the free travel after 10 journeys (possibly 9 some time in the future) will drive a shift.  But I think there is more can be done to lower the base.  Short trips are relatively too expensive and this is causing a drop as well. Keep the increases but knock off say $2 from all go card fares (adult, half for concession). This results in a significant price fall for short journeys. Increase off peak discount.  These things combined will drive an increase in patronage which will drive frequency increases.

The present system is going backwards.  It is clear.

Recent state elections: Victoria turned on public transport - it was the deciding issue, NSW public transport was a major factor.  Queensland?

[#Metro]

Cr Quirk will launch a public relations campaign to try to encourage people back to public transport this morning.

I always cringe when I see people resort to PR campaigns to "encourage" or "educate" the public on PT.
The public is not dumb- advertising rotten apples doesn't make them any less rotten!

The best advertisement for PT is

- frequent service
- high speed
- decent span of hours

[ozbob]

Part of the problem of course is the official stated OTP of bus, and the punters actual experiences which are very different. The INB delays have turned some away as well.

There are fixes available, but they still fiddle ...

[STB]

Not surprising to see that 38% want both lower fares and more services based on Brisbane Times online survey.  So, they people want their cake and to eat it as well.  I can't realistically see that happen.

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail click here!

Fewer people catching buses in Brisbane and higher fares are to blame

Fewer people catching buses in Brisbane and higher fares are to blame

    by: Robyn Ironside
    From: The Courier-Mail
    November 15, 2011 7:50AM

AFTER more than a decade of steady growth, the number of people catching buses in Brisbane has started to fall and rising fares are being blamed.

In the first four months of the 2011-12 financial year, bus patronage fell by 203,357 passengers compared with the same period last year, despite the provision of extra services and new bus routes.

It was the most dramatic decline in bus patronage since 1999 and follows on from similar downturns in train and ferry travellers in the last 12 months.

Brisbane Lord Mayor Graham Quirk said he was concerned the slump in patronage would continue if the State Government's 15 per cent annual fare hikes went ahead as planned.
"With bulk water, car registration and electricity charges skyrocketing out of control the last thing Brisbane residents can afford is the Bligh Government's plans to increase fares by four times the inflation rate every year until 2014," Cr Quirk said.

"In the last 12 months we've seen Brisbane's buses go from record growth to their worst performace in over a decade and it's clear the State Government's massive fare hikes are the reason.''

He said since the establishment of Translink in 2003, a zone one fare had more than doubled in price for paper ticket users and increased by 47 per cent for go card carriers.

The Lord Mayor's concerns were shared by commuter advocacy group Back on Track which said short trips on public transport had become too expensive.

Spokesman Robert Dow said a fare restructure was desperately needed to address the exodus from all forms of public transports.

"We get a lot of feedback that zone one and zone two trips are too costly. The longer trips are certainly better value,'' said Mr Dow.

"What we think is the zonal system needs adjustment to balance it out a lot better.''

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said the figures showed bus patronage had increased 63 per cent over seven years which was ``a remarkable effort''.

"We know it is important to continue to offer incentives to customers such as the recently announced free travel after ten journeys in a Monday to Sunday week and off-peak discount of 20 per cent,'' said Ms Palaszczuk.

"By taking a few extra journeys as week, this incentive will potentially benefit more than 130,000 go card users who already take eight or more journeys in a week.''

Cr Quirk is expected to unveil a campaign today to help boost public transport usage in Brisbane.

[Cam]

Keep the increases but knock off say $2 from all go card fares (adult, half for concession). This results in a significant price fall for short journeys.

I agree with this in principle. Reducing all adult Go Card fares by $2 will mean that a 1 zone fare in 2012 would be $1.05 peak & 44c off peak. This would encourage many additional users. People with access to motor vehciles may actually catch public transport to go to the local shopping centre rather than driving. Bus lanes may even be required throughout the CBD & along bus routes in inner & middle suburbs to cope with such demand. 15 minute off peak rail services on all lines may also be required to cope with the demand.  

Perhaps discounting all Go Card fares by $1.50 would be a more reasonable expectation.

[ozbob]

Yes, it is the principle.  The actual amount would need some modelling and so forth, be happy with a $1.50 Cam.  I think it needs this sort of seismic shift, which is easily handled on the go card system.

[somebody]

Translink statistics showed 12.9 million fewer train trips for the three months from April to June 2011 compared to the same period last year - a 16 per cent slump in journeys.

I'm sure that's reduced TO 12.9mil.

Bit of a delayed reaction!

Keep the increases but knock off say $2 from all go card fares (adult, half for concession). This results in a significant price fall for short journeys.

I agree with this in principle. Reducing all adult Go Card fares by $2 will mean that a 1 zone fare in 2012 would be $1.05 peak & 44c off peak. This would encourage many additional users. People with access to motor vehciles may actually catch public transport to go to the local shopping centre rather than driving. Bus lanes may even be required throughout the CBD & along bus routes in inner & middle suburbs to cope with such demand. 15 minute off peak rail services on all lines may also be required to cope with the demand. 

Perhaps discounting all Go Card fares by $1.50 would be a more reasonable expectation.

Fully agree.  Although reduce peak by $1.50 and off peak by $1.20 - otherwise the basis of the calculation is lost.  Also they should get rid of the consolidated rounding errors!

Bus lanes will be less needed but more achievable as there will be less traffic.

Not surprising to see that 38% want both lower fares and more services based on Brisbane Times online survey.  So, they people want their cake and to eat it as well.  I can't realistically see that happen.

I think the most interesting thing about that poll is only 3% say that they wouldn't use it if it was free.  It's now 29% that say they want cheaper fares and better services before they use it.

[Cam]

Bus lanes will be less needed but more achievable as there will be less traffic.

Good point.