New fare strategy - articles and discussion

[justanotheruser]

Who here really things we need monthy/3 monthly/6 monthly tickets?

Me.

I actually disagree with that.  If we do have them, they should be auto-loaded retrospectively once it has become cheaper for you to have that ticket.  The current system is reasonably simple, and other than the high flag fall is reasonably fair.

I can't 100% agree with that (other than the flagfall, on which you are dead right).

Periodicals make the pricing more transparent and easy to understand, and give certainty that the particular go card will be able to be used in the period of currency without having to fish out a $5 note  – something that will enable top-ups to be phased off of buses.  It just seems easier to manage than rewriting the software for overlaying caps if you can give the user the choice (and indeed the incentive) to pre-load their card well in advance, and limit capping to daily travel.

to phase out top-ups on the bus just get the drivers to refuse to accept them like with BT.

[justanotheruser]

"How quickly can you re-introduce the tickets?"

It's an interesting way of asking for a backflip.  It pre-supposes that not having the tickets is a bad policy.  Are we to assume that it would be LNP policy to re-introduce the tickets?

yes we might as well make assumptions about LNP policies as the only transport policy on their website is last years federal election policy where we see the same phrases that MP Scott Emerson is using.

[Zoiks]

If one of the trips was in off peak then you wouldnt be in a weekly cap.
However if you went to take another trip, then you would be charged the extra 50c or whatever it ends up being to bring that off peak to a peak ticket and it would be automatically capped.
If that made sense

As bad as labor has been under bligh (i feel beatie had a better vision) I have zero faith in newman after what he did in Brisbane. It will take one heck of a transport policy to get me on side

[ozbob]

Atlanta MARTA Breeze Card, is a Cubic Nextfare card same as go card ..

http://www.breezecard.com/htm/terms_conditons.html#breezeticket

Fare Products Available to a Breeze Card Customer

Any standard MARTA fare product is available to load onto a Breeze Card including:

   Stored Value:  Load a cash value onto the Breeze Card.  The card functions similar to a debit card. Applicable fares or fees are deducted each time you present the card at a bus farebox, rail station faregate or (eventually a) parking exit gate.  The maximum cash balance that can be stored on a Breeze Card is $100.00; the minimum amount that can be loaded at one time is $2.00 ($.95 for qualifying Half Fare customers).  NOTE:  At the present time, Stored Value can be used to pay MARTA bus and rail fares only.  Stored value from any other smart card, fast pass or electronic debit card system cannot be deducted by the Breeze System.  Value placed on a Breeze Card is not redeemable for cash.

   Time Passes:  You may load a 7- or 30- day pass on the Breeze Card.  Passes are good for unlimited rides for the number of days purchased.  The "clock" for time-based passes starts upon first use of the Breeze Card at a bus farebox or rail station faregate.

   Trip Passes:  You may load any number of trips onto your Breeze Card.  Also available are 10-trip and 20-trip passes.

   Transfers:  If you choose to pay your fare with stored value or a trip-based pass, you will be entitled to bus-to-bus, bus-to-rail, or rail-to-bus transfer good for 3 hours from the time you paid your first fare.  The transfer will be electronically encoded onto your Breeze Card.  You will not be issued a separate paper or magnetic transfer.  If you are using a time-based pass, you are entitled to an unlimited number of rides within the validity period – encoded transfers are not necessary as long as the time-based pass is valid.

You may load any combination of four (4) fare products onto a single Breeze Card.  For example, you may load $20 in stored value, load both a 7 and 30 day pass, and load a 10 trip pass all on the same card.  Upon presentation at a bus farebox or rail station faregate, the system will check for and process the time-based pass first.  If the timed pass has expired, the system will check for a trip-based pass.  If it is depleted, the system will then deduct the appropriate fare from the value stored on the card.  

I have been informed a number of times that the go card is capable of handling any reasonable fare structure.  The Breeze card can have 4 different fare systems at once, myki does much the same.  I think it is time they snapped out of it ...

[#Metro]

Good grief, that's AMAZING...

So yeah... they had better find some other excuse than "computer says no"...

[somebody]

Good grief, that's AMAZING...

So yeah... they had better find some other excuse than "computer says no"...

Actually, it is a very good reason.  Computer systems are very expensive, and one of the reasons they are so expensive because people think that it should be easy enough to put ridiculous complications in them.  This is also the reason for the health payroll debacle, there were just too many rules and the quality was sacrificed rather than blow out the cost.  There is a small amount of guesswork in that, but I think it is on the money.

[#Metro]

Computer says... FREE PUBLIC TRANSPORT FOR EVERYONE...  What a malfunction that would be!

[Gazza]

Actually, it is a very good reason.  Computer systems are very expensive, and one of the reasons they are so expensive because people think that it should be easy enough to put ridiculous complications in them.  This is also the reason for the health payroll debacle, there were just too many rules and the quality was sacrificed rather than blow out the cost.  There is a small amount of guesswork in that, but I think it is on the money.

Same thing with Myki too, they tried too hard to emulate the behaviour of Metcards (Right down to things like the way 2 hour passes behaved under metcard where you could get free time beyond the 2 hours depending on when you swipe, i guess to avoid p%ssing people off who liked the old rort)
Whereas the smartest thing to do would've been to just toss out the current fare system in its entirety, and do one from scratch that was easy to write computer code for.
Fortunatley in SEQ it appears the zonal structure was designed with this in mind, so GoCard woud've been easy to design for.

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail click here!

Queensland Council of Social Service's Cost of Living Report highlights pressures on families

Queensland Council of Social Service's Cost of Living Report highlights pressures on families

    Sophie Elsworth
    From: The Courier-Mail
    May 24, 2011 12:00AM

WE FEEL it every day at the supermarket checkout and as the seemingly endless bills roll out of the letterbox.

Now a new report backs up what we all know the cost of living continues to spiral out of control.

The Queensland Council of Social Service's Cost of Living Report 2011 highlights a 63 per cent increase in utilities, 48 per cent hike in public transport costs and a sharp spike in food prices of 23 per cent all over the past five years.

Single parents and the unemployed are finding it toughest, but even the average working family is barely making ends meet.

And the situation is so serious the organisation is calling on the State Government to create a dedicated Cost of Living ministerial portfolio to deal with rising costs.

QCOSS has also called for an urgent review of concessions available to struggling Queenslanders, particularly low-income families.

More --> here!

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> True cost of living rises 'hidden' in CPI

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

GoCard incentives till on the cards: Minister

GoCard incentives till on the cards: Minister
Daniel Hurst
June 15, 2011 - 3:00AM

Queensland's transport minister says she is still looking at potential Go Card incentives, following complaints the State Budget yesterday contained no ticket price relief.

Public transport lobbyists had been calling for periodical saver options to be introduced on the smartcard system amid anger over the removal of daily, monthly, six-monthly and yearly tickets.

The state opposition yesterday condemned the government after it failed to act on the matter in the final budget before the next election.

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk had previously hinted at possible ticketing improvements around Budget time.

In April, she told brisbanetimes.com.au commuters were "very disappointed that the six-month and the 12-monthly passes were taken away" and she had asked for "urgent" advice on restoring such incentives.

"I want to really have a meeting of this [new transport] committee in May, at least by the end of May, because we've got [the] budget in June, so we'll need to be making a decision about these six-monthly and 12 monthly passes pretty quickly," she said at the time.

In May, Ms Palaszczuk told Parliament she took the issue seriously and discussed it with Treasurer Andrew Fraser.

Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said he was disappointed fare enhancements, such as a Canberra-style automatic monthly cap, were not included in the Budget.

"I think it's actually a missed opportunity," he said.

"I think there is a real demand for some further fare enhancement to the Go Card to possibly include daily fare capping and some further periodical option."

Opposition transport spokesman Scott Emerson said the government's failure to deliver any public transport fare relief was a blow to commuters who were already struggling with annual fare hikes.

"What they [commuters] say to me is that it seems like this government doesn't want people to use public transport," he said.

Ms Palaszczuk last night called on the opposition to stop criticising public transport and said fare enhancements were still on the table.

"The Public Transport Advisory Group I convened is looking at this very issue," she said in a written response.

"The group met formerly for the first time two weeks ago [and] Go Card will be high on the agenda at the next meeting."

The LNP is yet to commit to fare enhancements if it wins government, but Mr Emerson said the party was "very much aware" of the cost pressures facing transport users.

Meanwhile, the State Budget allocates $1.8 billion to transport infrastructure in the coming financial year, including funds for the Gold Coast light-rail project and the Northern Busway.

Other budgeted projects include railway and bus station upgrades and $97 million for new passenger train sets.

The Budget also devotes $12 million to early stage works for the $1.5 billion Moreton Bay Rail Link, a joint state, federal and local government project.

Ms Palaszczuk said the government was "getting on with the job of delivering sustainable transport solutions for future generations".

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gocard-incentives-till-on-the-cards-minister-20110614-1g214.html#ixzz1PGsbBP4C

[dwb]

I just made the following comment on the article:

Actually not that many people had access to 3,6 or 12 month tickets... so it wasn't a benefit that was evenly distributed. Of course those who had it bemoan its removal, but its fairer for the rest of us!!

I think the existing price rises are more or less fair, but the next couple of years shouldn't keep going up, especially unless other loyalty discounts aren't introduced.

The off peak fare also needs to be about half peak fare!! They could do that overnight and wouldn't lose much money but would incentivise more people to use it other than just for commuting!!

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail 15th June 2011 page 11

No relief for public

[#Metro]

* Fares go up
* Fines go up
* Bungled timetable change
* Overcrowding

Mr Emerson is talking out of his hat. Spare me the "I feel your pain spiel".

* Fares go up

I don't have an issue with the fares. I have an issue with the fare structure. He can't seem to tell the difference. I also have a problem with paying premium prices for rotten apples. The solution is NOT to give away free or discounted rotten apples- but get rid of the rot served up and replace it with something quality!

* Fines go up

No sympathy from me! Why should people feel entitled to freeload on the system?

* Bungled timetable change

Timetable change went well. It actually added more services if one didn't notice the obvious.

* Overcrowding

Yes on the 1st day. But you know what, what system doesn't have overcrowding during peak hour. Only systems that are so shockingly bad have empty trains in the height of peak hour. This is like trying to say that a full restaurant is a bad one. It doesn't make sense!!

So, the key pieces of information that are missing-- WHAT IS THE LNP POLICY WITH REGARDS TO PT AND TRAIN FREQUENCY?

[Zoiks]

Exactly. I'm sick of all the negative politics from federal and state opposition.

Its all well and good to whine and complain. But when it comes down to it, they have NO policy.

You want to be seen as a leader in public transport, great, announce the following:
Daily and weekly caps on go card. Not useless 3/6/12 month pre purchased tickets.
Tell us how your going to make the service more efficient.
Tell us how your going to increase funding to public transport and dictate to translink that the network should be integrated. Ie buses should not be running from whoop whoop to the city. Run them to the nearest train station, minimum 15 min off peak frequencies.
Tell us how your going to fund it, congestion tolling etc.

Enough negative whining, more positive policy. Until Newman and Abbott do that I will not even consider them given their abysmal track records in this area

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

[justanotheruser]

Enough negative whining, more positive policy. Until Newman and Abbott do that I will not even consider them given their abysmal track records in this area

yeah but look what happened last time we had a political candidate announce policy with the other one just being negative...Paul Keating walloped John Hewson at the polling booths. Now we're reaping what we sow.

[justanotheruser]

* Fines go up

No sympathy from me! Why should people feel entitled to freeload on the system?

I could be wrong but it seemed to me like he may have been talking about the penalty for not touching off with you go card. I know there have been times when I've been so tired I have almost forgotten to touch on. One time I did forget so I get off at the next stop and catch the following train.

[#Metro]

I could be wrong but it seemed to me like he may have been talking about the penalty for not touching off with you go card. I know there have been times when I've been so tired I have almost forgotten to touch on. One time I did forget so I get off at the next stop and catch the following train.

Once the fines hit, one soon learns!

[Zoiks]

No excuse really.
You could just as easily replace touch on with put seatbelt on, pay for petrol, drive to.the speed limit etc.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

[ozbob]

http://www.schooliesfornerds.com/2011/06/train-travel-fare-comparison-four-australian-cities-vs-three-international-cities/

Train travel fare comparison – Four Australian cities vs three international cities

Good work. Confirms again much what we know ..

[ozbob]

Courier Mail --> Brisbane rated 14th most expensive city in global cost of living survey

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Living in Brisbane more expensive than New York

[Fares_Fair]

Article: Call to get costs back on track.
Maroochy Journal
Friday 15 July, 2011
by Sherine Conyers

Temporary upload only, to be replaced once online PDF version published.
My apologies for the poor quality of the phone camera picture.

[Fares_Fair]

Article: Clear as mud and overpriced.
Maroochy Journal
Friday 15 July, 2011
by Sherine Conyers

Temporary upload only, to be replaced once online PDF version published.
My apologies for the poor quality of the phone camera picture.

[ozbob]

It was interesting that 'Go card fare enhancements' was mentioned in the Transport Estimates Committee yesterday, I am looking forward to what those might be!

[Fares_Fair]

Article: Call to get costs back on track.
Maroochy Journal
Friday 15 July, 2011
by Sherine Conyers

Temporary upload only, to be replaced once online PDF version published.
My apologies for the poor quality of the phone camera picture.

[Fares_Fair]

Article: Clear as mud and overpriced.
Maroochy Journal
Friday 15 July, 2011
by Sherine Conyers

Temporary upload only, to be replaced once online PDF version published.
My apologies for the poor quality of the phone camera picture.

[david]

I like how they've used a picture of the very modern IMU to represent Brisbane, compared with the older-looking trains in Sydney and Melbourne. They should've used an ICE to really represent the Sunshine Coast properly  

And the picture of Bob at a very sleek looking Darra Station! It's almost like they are trying to subconsciously justify the fare rises! 

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Sunshine Coast short-changed on train services

[Fares_Fair]

Couriermail --> Sunshine Coast short-changed on train services

Amen to that.
Maybe if the money being used to pay for the Northern Interconnector pipeline going to a non-existent dam,
was put into something that does need money, like the Beerburrum to Nambour duplication - things COULD improve.
Instead we have money wasted.

No one has explained why Darra, in the seat of Inala is the the only station in the network to get 15 minute frequency, seven days a week.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Arnz]

Couriermail --> Sunshine Coast short-changed on train services

Amen to that.
Maybe if the money being used to pay for the Northern Interconnector pipeline going to a non-existent dam,
was put into something that does need money, like the Beerburrum to Nambour duplication - things COULD improve.
Instead we have money wasted.

+1

No one has explained why Darra, in the seat of Inala is the the only station in the network to get 15 minute frequency, seven days a week.

I think you'll find half the stations on the Ipswich Line (Milton to Darra) and part of the inner NCL (Albion to Northgate) also has 15 minute services/7 days.  The late start on 15 min services on Sunday is probably one of the few differences for some locations.

[ozbob]

Once upon a time there was a little engine called Donald.  Donald lived at Darra.  One day a fast passenger train with Henry up front whistled impatiently at Darra while Donald was pushing a few wagons from the main line onto the siding for the cement works.  Henry, being a fast engine got a bit annoyed with this. The southern highlands express should not have to wait for Donald the Darra shunter he snorted?  So Henry hatched a plan, and as he accelerated away to Wacol puffed to Donald that one day Darra will have many lines.  It is just not on for an express engine as grand as Henry to wait for the likes of Donald from Darra ....

As they say, the rest is history ....

From the archives ... happy snaps at Darra!

Henry -->

Donald -->

Annie (believed to be related to Henry) -->

[ozbob]

The branch line to Springfield is one of two major drivers in the west, the other the volume of traffic on the western line.  These came together at the right time and as a consequence the frequency between Darra and town improved. It was a consequence of the amplification and the branch line.  The drivers were not giving Darra <-> Milton a 15 minute frequency by design, that happened as if by accident.  The political climate out west was optimal too at many levels.

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail 23rd August 2011 page 4

Fare cap call

[ozbob]

Another nail into the coffin of a failing fare structure ...

[Jonno]

Yet the Lotd Mayors Council is spending billions on roads which also detracts public transport usage.  He speak with fork tounge I believe

[ozbob]

Quest Brisbane Central --> Brisbane City Council's high bus fares drive commuters away, but Translink are set to raise them another 50 per cent

[ozbob]

http://www.scottemerson.com.au/speeches/scott-speaks-in-parliament-about-the-doubling-of-public-transport-fares-under-labor.html

Opposition Parliament Statement

Scott speaks in Parliament about the doubling of public transport fares under Labor

"As a regular user of public transport I am often asked by other commuters why the state Labor government keeps putting up fares. Why did fares go up 20 per cent last year and a further 15 per cent this year? Many commuters do not realise that the government has already announced further 15 per cent increases every year for the next three years. That will see fares double in cost in just five years under Labor."

Hansard Thursday, 25 August 2011

Mr EMERSON (Indooroopilly—LNP) (3.24 pm): As a regular user of public transport I am often asked by other commuters why the state Labor government keeps putting up fares. Why did fares go up 20 per cent last year and a further 15 per cent this year? Many commuters do not realise that the government has already announced further 15 per cent increases every year for the next three years. That will see fares double in cost in just five years under Labor.

But why are the fares doubling? It is all part of Labor's plan to get commuters to pay for Labor's financial mismanagement and the $85 million debt that it has racked up. It is all part of Labor's plan to get commuters to pay for the $100 million a week in interest payments on that debt. That is why we have already seen two fare rises and there are three more fare rises to come.

Of course, Labor MPs do not like to tell their constituents about the three more fare rises that Labor is planning. That is to be expected. But what was extraordinary this week was that the transport minister's own director-general also appears to have been kept in the dark over Labor's plan to wind back subsidies and make passengers pay more. During the hearings this week of the transport committee the director-general was asked about the cut in subsidies and getting passengers to pay more. He told the committee, 'I am not aware of that.' So the director-general has been left in the dark and Labor MPs want to keep commuters in the dark about the three more fare rises.

As the state government's own TransLink Tracker has confirmed, commuters believe that public transport is becoming less affordable. The growth in passenger numbers on buses has already fallen in the face of the most recent fare increases. Three more fare rises, which are caused by Labor's financial bungling and waste, will have a further impact on commuters. Is it any wonder commuters have been kept in the dark?

[dwb]

http://www.scottemerson.com.au/speeches/scott-speaks-in-parliament-about-the-doubling-of-public-transport-fares-under-labor.html

Opposition Parliament Statement

Scott speaks in Parliament about the doubling of public transport fares under Labor

"As a regular user of public transport I am often asked by other commuters why the state Labor government keeps putting up fares. Why did fares go up 20 per cent last year and a further 15 per cent this year? Many commuters do not realise that the government has already announced further 15 per cent increases every year for the next three years. That will see fares double in cost in just five years under Labor."

Hansard Thursday, 25 August 2011

Mr EMERSON (Indooroopilly—LNP) (3.24 pm): As a regular user of public transport I am often asked by other commuters why the state Labor government keeps putting up fares. Why did fares go up 20 per cent last year and a further 15 per cent this year? Many commuters do not realise that the government has already announced further 15 per cent increases every year for the next three years. That will see fares double in cost in just five years under Labor.

But why are the fares doubling? It is all part of Labor’s plan to get commuters to pay for Labor’s financial mismanagement and the $85 million debt that it has racked up. It is all part of Labor’s plan to get commuters to pay for the $100 million a week in interest payments on that debt. That is why we have already seen two fare rises and there are three more fare rises to come.

Of course, Labor MPs do not like to tell their constituents about the three more fare rises that Labor is planning. That is to be expected. But what was extraordinary this week was that the transport minister’s own director-general also appears to have been kept in the dark over Labor’s plan to wind back subsidies and make passengers pay more. During the hearings this week of the transport committee the director-general was asked about the cut in subsidies and getting passengers to pay more. He told the committee, ‘I am not aware of that.’ So the director-general has been left in the dark and Labor MPs want to keep commuters in the dark about the three more fare rises.

As the state government’s own TransLink Tracker has confirmed, commuters believe that public transport is becoming less affordable. The growth in passenger numbers on buses has already fallen in the face of the most recent fare increases. Three more fare rises, which are caused by Labor’s financial bungling and waste, will have a further impact on commuters. Is it any wonder commuters have been kept in the dark?

"it's all part of Labors plan to get passengers to pay for Campbell Newman's promises of new buses mist of which aren't providing new services and are only needed to maintain existing service levels because he refuses to implement any bus priority measures in Brusbane".

Ooooh oops, that Scott Emmerson didn't say that did he?

[#Metro]

Where's my BUZ  110/100 and BUZ 450?
Upgraded 15 minute frequency trains??? Heloooooo???