New fare strategy - articles and discussion

[ozbob]

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/legislativeAssembly/hansard/documents/2011.pdf/2011_03_08_DAILY.pdf

TransLink, Fares

Ms DAVIS (Aspley—LNP) (9.33 pm): I rise to address an issue that has been of tremendous
concern to the commuting public and one that has generated considerable media attention in recent
weeks. I refer to the inflexible fare structure that has accompanied this Labor government's introduction
of the go card. Brisbane's public transport ranks among the most expensive in the world. We are now
paying more than commuters in New York, Berlin, Paris, Madrid, Los Angeles and Tokyo, and the hikes
are set to continue until 2014. The Bligh government will more than double go card fares in just five
years. Just when Queenslanders are facing escalating cost-of-living pressures, this government has
slapped commuters with fare increases running at more than five times CPI. As it stands, only in London
will commuters pay more for a single adult fare, yet their smart card—the Oyster card—still offers
capped fare options.

This was an issue generating considerable concern amongst commuters before I was appointed
shadow minister for public transport. In the last couple of months I have been actively listening to public
transport users who feel they are being steamrolled by this government. They want to see a discernible
improvement in service provision. They expect reliability and comfort. They demand value for their
dollar. With congestion increasing on our roads, it is important that we aim to have a public transport
system that not only encourages more commuters but also ensures that those who currently use public
transport continue to do so.

In October 2009 the government announced that it would be increasing TransLink fares with a
view to reducing the subsidy per trip from 75 per cent to 70 per cent. The reality is that this was a
manoeuvre glossed over with Labor government rhetoric for months prior to its implementation. Shortly
after the 15 per cent increase was implemented following the devastation of the January floods, the
government stated that the fare increases would help build and restore the public transport network. The
fare increases were never intended as revenue raising for flood recovery, given that they had been
mapped out a considerable time before.

Devastating circumstances were being manipulated for political gain at a time when
Queenslanders needed compassion and assistance from their government. In question time this
morning the minister failed to outline how the federal government's carbon tax would further impact on
fares. Commuters are wanting improved frequency of services, more effective timetabling and extended
operating hours to justify the fare increases and make public transport a workable option for them.
The Leader of the Opposition and the LNP understand the importance of public transport. We
understand that, above all, when Queenslanders are struggling with increased power bills and
increased water bills they do not need another burden of increased public transport fares—increased
fares created by Labor ineptness. We will make delivering flexible public transport which delivers real
value for commuters a real priority.

[justanotheruser]

I'll believe the LNP understand and care after reading their public transport policy which to the best of my knowledge does not exist.

[dwb]

I'll believe the LNP understand and care after reading their public transport policy which to the best of my knowledge does not exist.

I agree. Empty and vacuous from LNP. Let's see them try and get Campbell to allow bus lanes in Brisbane... one of the reasons the system is so inefficient and expensive. But he won't... And they won't either. And they won't build Cross River Rail. And they won't increase services and I doubt they will do anything with fares irrespective of any promises they make.

[justanotheruser]

I'll believe the LNP understand and care after reading their public transport policy which to the best of my knowledge does not exist.

I agree. Empty and vacuous from LNP. Let's see them try and get Campbell to allow bus lanes in Brisbane... one of the reasons the system is so inefficient and expensive. But he won't... And they won't either. And they won't build Cross River Rail. And they won't increase services and I doubt they will do anything with fares irrespective of any promises they make.

campbells position in his initial election was no bus lanes so can't see that happening in a hurry.

[#Metro]

I don't think fares should be linked to CPI. They should be linked to need and demand. Although that said, as more people use PT, it should start showing returns to scale...

[dwb]

campbells position in his initial election was no bus lanes so can't see that happening in a hurry.

I am very aware of this. It's a problem from my perspective.

I don't think fares should be linked to CPI. They should be linked to need and demand. Although that said, as more people use PT, it should start showing returns to scale.

The point of adjusting with CPI is to try to keep the level of subsidy roughly even year to year as costs to labour and fuel increase, therefore fares are 'stable' more or less and do not increase (or decrease) hugely beyond wages either.  Wage rises in many industries are argued for on a CPI basis. This means that over time the revenue is not eaten away making the business less serviceable as often PT is more or less stable... apart from population increase there aren't often great changes which drive change in demand, either from an infrastructure perspective, an operational perspective or a competitor (modal eg car) perspective.

I would think that rapid changes in any of these things are unlikely, so the best thing to do is to increase revenue through a variety of channels for example fares, land taxes, levies, road charging, payroll tax/employers etc.

It is not really feasible to simply just cut fares, in peak at least.

[somebody]

I don't think there can be even CPI increases from current levels, if petrol prices and parking costs were to remain constant.  They are finding a strong reluctance to use the service even in peak on the current fare levels.

[dwb]

I don't think there can be even CPI increases from current levels, if petrol prices and parking costs were to remain constant.  They are finding a strong reluctance to use the service even in peak on the current fare levels.

Playing devils advocate, I would tend to think that roughly the same number of people (although not necessarily the same ones) will commute in from Ipswich, Sunny/Gold Coasts as the roads will get too congested... so initially people may switch back to the roads but then they're (some of them at least) likely to re-evaluate their decision and switch back to PT. For local Brisbane trips there is roughly and will remain roughly the same carparking levels, so a lot more people can't really drive to (CBD) work (even if there were more space on the roads), plus if there is significantly more demand on carparking the cost of that is unlikely to remain constant.

The main problem with raising fares to the level people switch modes is the flow on negative effect on reliability and efficiency (ie profitability) of (mostly) the buses due to conflict with car congestion.  This can be "fixed" at least to a certain extent independently of fares if some of our politicians showed some leadership and actually implemented real bus priority where it is needed... and I tend to think this is the major thing that needs to be done... as people will get a more rapid service and that again will affect their decision making more so than cutting fares back.

[#Metro]

Bus priority in the form of transponders changing traffic lights and bus lanes (Hello Coronation Drive) is the Elephant in the room.

[ozbob]

http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Crazy/Elephant_On_Bus.jpg

[ozbob]

[ Bus priority --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4045.0 ]

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Minister hints at commuter budget relief

Minister hints at commuter budget relief
Daniel Hurst
April 8, 2011 - 3:01AM

Queensland's transport minister has signalled she wants to act on commuter concerns over ticket pricing in time for the June state budget.

In a wide-ranging interview with brisbanetimes.com.au, Annastacia Palaszczuk also acknowledged the government needed to provide tourists with a better public transport ticketing option.

The state government has come under fire from commuters over the decision to remove periodical saver tickets, such as six-monthly and yearly passes, and increase fares by 15 per cent in January.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Ms Palaszczuk, who took over the transport portfolio in February, defended the five-year program fare hikes that began last year, saying the increases were funding services and infrastructure.

But she said commuters were "very disappointed that the six-month and the 12-monthly passes were taken away" and she had asked for "urgent" advice on restoring the incentives.

Ms Palaszczuk said TransLink was in talks with supplier Cubic over how such incentives could be built into the Go Card system.

The Transport Minister said improvements would be made following feedback from the new community feedback body she was setting up, with expressions of interest to be sought from people next week.

"This will be a high-level group of people that will say these are our top three or four issues we want government, Queensland Rail and TransLink to work on to benefit the public," she said.

"I want to really have a meeting of this committee in May, at least by the end of May, because we've got [the] budget in June, so we'll need to be making a decision about these six-monthly and 12 monthly passes pretty quickly."

Asked whether daily fare caps for commuters would also be introduced, she said: "One step at a time ... Let's see what people [on the new committee] have to say first. The focus needs to be on six-month and 12-month [incentives]. People have sent a very clear message to me about that."

However, Ms Palaszczuk also saw a need to improve the system for tourists.

Visitors can no longer purchase daily paper tickets and have to pay for every trip they make around the city or region, either through individual single tickets or multiple Go Card journeys.

"One issue that is very important I think is that when tourists come to southeast Queensland that they have the ability to purchase a travel card, which they're able to purchase in some other states and other countries," Ms Palaszczuk said.

Ms Palaszczuk pointed to improvements being made, including the looming railway timetable overhaul to increase the number of seats available for transport users each week, and several infrastructure projects.

She also sought to target Liberal National Party election team leader Campbell Newman over his March comments, while still Lord Mayor, that he wanted the government's $8 billion cross-river rail project to be stopped.

In January, the government announced the unfunded underground rail project would be delayed by at least two years because the summer of disasters had dug a massive hole in public finances, despite previously warning of looming cross-river capacity constraints if the project did not go ahead.

Mr Newman, who last month advocated a cheaper metro project instead of the government's cross-river rail plan, clarified his comments this week.

He said he understood the capacity problems and the need to get more train services across the river, but the government's proposal was too expensive. He also argued the existing project had stalled and blown out under Labor.

Ms Palaszczuk rejected suggestions the government's criticism of Mr Newman for not backing the project was hollow given it was the government that had delayed construction. She said work was continuing on the planning and the environmental impact statement would be released soon.

Asked about the prospect of securing crucial Commonwealth funding, she said she was confident the federal government understood the importance of the project.

[somebody]

Pretty disappointing they are sticking to the fare increases until 2014.

[ozbob]

Pretty disappointing they are sticking to the fare increases until 2014.

Lets see what unfolds ...  --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5755.msg52272#msg52272

[ozbob]

Pressure is building ..

Courier Mail -->  Wave of rising costs sends Queensland families to the brink

[dwb]

Pressure is building ..

Courier Mail -->  Wave of rising costs sends Queensland families to the brink

Life gets harder in a global financial crisis. Deal with it! Job opportunities, wages and living costs aren't unbearable in Australia, in fact we have a very affordable high quality of life with excellent education and job opportunities!

If the government were really to do something about cost of living pressures the first and biggest priority should be getting more involved in the planning, design, construction and rent/sale of housing! Put it in the right places, connected to services, don't build it as McMansions with a zillion air-conditioners. Housing is perhaps the biggest problem to living affordability in Australia and yet with an ageing demographic the oldies need upwards pressure on housing prices so nothing gets done. Population growth now is nothing like post-war and yet for some reason the industry says it can't build houses or apartments to meet demand! Not true, they only build McMansions slow enough to prop up the highest end of the market and they're not interested in other segments of the market, despite proclamining Govt shouldn't have a role in housing provision beyond social housing. What a joke!

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament ....  

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/legislativeAssembly/Hansard/documents/2011.pdf/2011_05_10_DAILY.pdf

Questions without notice ... 10th May 2011

Public Transport, Ticketing
Mr Watt: How many hairbrushes can you get for $26 million?
Mr EMERSON: Not many for you, mate!
Government members interjected.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Those on my right will cease interjecting.
Mr SEENEY: I rise to a point of order. There has been a longstanding convention in this
parliament, for as long as I have known, that comments about a member's personal appearance are
way out of order. I think the interjection that was made is unparliamentary and it is unbecoming of this
place. I interject as much as anybody, but that is not the sort of interjection that should be part of this
parliament.
Mr SPEAKER: Notwithstanding that I would normally say that, the member for Indooroopilly
would be the one who could complain about that. I do not think it is appropriate for you to take the point
of order on behalf of somebody. I will say this to the House: I could not hear the comments. I would say
to the member for Indooroopilly in speaking to the point of order that if you take objection to something
that was said then I would ask you to take action through the chair to have that withdrawn.
Mr Lucas interjected.
Mr SPEAKER: The minister will cease interjecting.
Mr EMERSON: The question is—
Mr SPEAKER: Did you want to take—
Mr EMERSON: No.
Government members interjected.
Mr SPEAKER: Those on my right will cease interjecting. I say to the House that, wherever I go,
people in the wider community do take objection to the personality of politics. I did not hear the
comments of the honourable member, but I say that in general. We lower the standards of the House
when we get into personalities.
Mr EMERSON: In the interests of the House I will not take objection to that. I ask a question of
the Minister for Transport. Would the minister explain how quickly she could reintroduce monthly, sixmonthly
and 12-monthly tickets to give cost-of-living relief to regular public transport users if her portfolio
had an extra $26 million?
Ms PALASZCZUK: I thank the shadow minister for his question. I think he looks fine. In relation
to that question, this is an issue that the government is looking at very seriously. We are delivering a
world-class public transport system here in South-East Queensland.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! I say to the minister that that is precisely—just address your comments
through the chair and we will take it from there.
Ms PALASZCZUK: Mr Speaker, we are delivering a world-class public transport system here in
South-East Queensland. As I have said time and time again, we are listening to what public transport
commuters out there have to say. That is why I have established the Public Transport Advisory Group.
Today I can report to the House that over 120 people have applied to be public transport champions in
South-East Queensland, to be on that Public Transport Advisory Group. One of the concerns that
people have been expressing to me is in relation to the six-month and 12-month passes. This is
something that as minister I am seriously looking at and about which I have had discussions with the
Treasurer. It is one of the items that the Public Transport Advisory Group will be looking at in detail over
the coming months.
We are always looking at investing more and more money into our public transport system.
Campbell Newman has failed to invest over the years. We are the ones who are providing the buses; he
is the one trying to take the credit. Public transport is very important. Today we talked about the
$1 billion investment in Gold Coast rapid light rail, benefiting Gold Coast members. What has Campbell
Newman said about the future of rail in South-East Queensland? He wants to scrap Cross River Rail.
Where is the opposition on Cross River Rail? They do not have a position on Cross River Rail. We are
committed to spending more and more money on public transport—$1 billion. In fact, a couple of weeks
ago the member for Mansfield and I celebrated the 10th anniversary of the South East Busway,
delivered by a Labor government.
Opposition members interjected.
Ms PALASZCZUK: No, you do not like it.
Opposition members interjected.
Mr SPEAKER: Those on my left will cease interjecting.
Ms PALASZCZUK: What we have seen with the Victorian Liberal government is cuts to public
transport.
Mr Emerson interjected.
Mr SPEAKER: Those on my left will cease interjecting. Member for Indooroopilly, you have asked
the question.
Ms PALASZCZUK: During the last sittings I announced over 150,000 extra seats on the
Sunshine Coast-Ipswich line. What have they done in Victoria? They have actually decreased their
reliability. They have taken away services. They have stripped peak-hour services from their public
transport network. That is what we would see under you. We would see cuts to our public transport.
Where we enhance, you cut. Where we enhance our public transport spend and our public transport
infrastructure, you just spend.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Direct your comments through the chair.

Parliament in action ...

[#Metro]

Gee whiz. Ms Palaczczuk seems to think that adding services are a cut!
What is 10 minute frequency on the Frankston Line then? A cut?

And what about all the fat that is being added to the QR timetable too...

[ozbob]

Some very sloppy advice I would suggest ... maybe they had better read our Vic forum ...

[Fares_Fair]

Parliament in action ...

is that the same as government inaction ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[colinw]

Hey, Anna & Anna, where's my world class public transport system?

I'm still waiting for it ... for 29 minutes in the off-peak period.

I'd love some Victorian style cuts to my local public transport service.  In fact I call on the honourable minister to slash my rail service frequency to every 10 minutes, just like in Victoria.

[somebody]

What have they done in Victoria? They have actually decreased their reliability. They have taken away services.

If reliability comes at the cost of a reasonable speed service then I don't want it.

They have taken away a few services from a few stations though.  While adding quadruple the number of rail seats as we could add in a two years every six months.  Or something like that.

[Stillwater]

Be careful what you wish for is the genie's advice.  You want on-time running and greater reliability?  Vroomp!  Hey presto!  Just slow train journeys.  You want more seats on a crowded network? Vroomp!  Here's some buses that run to where people don't want to go -- makes for a fast journey (good on-time running) and efficient operation.  Next wish?

[mufreight]

Once again the Labor Party machine is espousing a selective misrepresentation, the new Metro timetable in Melbourne has bot cut services but has increased them and over a period of six months has added more additional servives than has been added here over some four years.
The Victorian Government is currently spending more on ADDITIONAL infrastructure this year over and above the upgrades of existing infrastructure for commuter rail than this Government has over the past five years.
Perhaps both the Government Minister for Transport and her Shadow counterpart have urgent need of a fresh crop of advisers who can provide them both with credible accurate fact instead of politicaly expedient spin.
Mr Emmerson was given the opportunity to tear this latest espousal by the Minister to shreds but due seemingly to being ignorant of the facts failed to do so which weakened his credibility.

[ozbob]

Opposition Statement

http://www.scottemerson.com.au/media-releases/

Labor rejects extra $26m for public transport

Tuesday, 10 May 2011 13:11

QUEENSLAND'S Transport Minister today refused to redirect $26 million Labor plans to give to political parties towards improving public transport by re-introducing monthly, six monthly and 12-month tickets.

Shadow Minister for Transport Scott Emerson said Transport Minister Palaszczuk refused to pledge the money to public transport despite admitting she had been asking the Treasurer for extra funds to assist train, bus and ferry commuters.

"I asked Labor how quickly they could reintroduce monthly, six monthly and 12-month tickets to give cost of living relief to regular public transport users if the $26 million they plan to spend on political parties was re-diverted to transport," Mr Emerson said.

"Instead of pledging the money to public transport, the Minister claimed instead she was delivering a 'world class transport system' in South East Queensland.

"I think if you ask any commuter, they will tell you that our public transport system is  far from world class . 

"It's clear Annastacia Palaszczuk is completely out of touch with public sentiment and her comment that the public transport system is world-class shows how arrogant this Labor Government has become."

The Labor Government is pushing through the Electoral Reform and Accountability Amendment Bill legislation through Parliament which will see a minimum of $26 million of taxpayer funds given to political parties.

[Zoiks]

Who here really things we need monthy/3 monthly/6 monthly tickets?

[SurfRail]

Who here really things we need monthy/3 monthly/6 monthly tickets?

Me.

We can still have the current set up of being able to buy paper tickets for singles (although that really should included dailies too), with all other ticketing options available via go card. 

For all of its technological problems, the myki system of having a pre-loaded periodical for a set number of zones, combined with a floating balance for discretionary travel outside those zones, seems to be the way to do it.

[somebody]

"How quickly can you re-introduce the tickets?"

It's an interesting way of asking for a backflip.  It pre-supposes that not having the tickets is a bad policy.  Are we to assume that it would be LNP policy to re-introduce the tickets?

[somebody]

Who here really things we need monthy/3 monthly/6 monthly tickets?

Me.

I actually disagree with that.  If we do have them, they should be auto-loaded retrospectively once it has become cheaper for you to have that ticket.  The current system is reasonably simple, and other than the high flag fall is reasonably fair.

[Fares_Fair]

Who here really things we need monthy/3 monthly/6 monthly tickets?

Me.

I actually disagree with that.  If we do have them, they should be auto-loaded retrospectively once it has become cheaper for you to have that ticket.  The current system is reasonably simple, and other than the high flag fall is reasonably fair.

I think it's semantics here, yes we do need these tickets - that is what commuters have asked for.
If the go card can accommodate them, then so be it, let the so-called 'smart' card do its' job.

But, if it cannot or the State Government will not bring in periodic ticketing under it, including weekly, monthly, 3 month, 6 month or 12 months, then by all means provide the service now, not later.

The Transport Minister, Annastacia Palaszczuk MP and member for Inala, has stated that only 6 and 12 month ticket options will be looked into. Hopefully the PT Advisory Group will do it's job and raise the issue.

The BIG question is why the go card can only do one thing at a time.

Does that mean it's male ?  

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

Well I didn't mean it as semantics.

I do not think we need such tickets.  And we definitely don't need the old unintegrated QR 6 monthly/yearly tickets.  Although a lot of people did want the daily cap in the poll six months ago or so (http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4763.0)

[Zoiks]

I just dont think there needs to be a 3/6 month ticket.

Paper should be singles/dailys only
Go card should have an automatic daily/weekly cap.

Should be as simple as that

[Fares_Fair]

I just dont think there needs to be a 3/6 month ticket.

Paper should be singles/dailys only
Go card should have an automatic daily/weekly cap.

Should be as simple as that

But it doesn't.
Hence the problem.
This is all the Minister stated that she 'got the message' on, viz. 6 month or 12 month tickets.
What we asked for were periodic ticketing options, including the above.
Thay can't seem to do that under their 'smartest' card.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Zoiks]

I know, but what I am saying, I dont think there should be 3/6 month options. Priority should be put o daily/weekly caps

[ozbob]

Steady down team, the intention is that a periodical 'ticket' if done, would be on the go card ...

[Fares_Fair]

all good here, Bob.

wow, it can. ok. 

Cancel my previous posts above where I say it can't be done.
(it hasn't been done yet though !)

Regards,
Fares_fair.

[Zoiks]

Of course it can do it.
London has cubic systems and they do it.

[SurfRail]

Who here really things we need monthy/3 monthly/6 monthly tickets?

Me.

I actually disagree with that.  If we do have them, they should be auto-loaded retrospectively once it has become cheaper for you to have that ticket.  The current system is reasonably simple, and other than the high flag fall is reasonably fair.

I can't 100% agree with that (other than the flagfall, on which you are dead right).

Periodicals make the pricing more transparent and easy to understand, and give certainty that the particular go card will be able to be used in the period of currency without having to fish out a $5 note  – something that will enable top-ups to be phased off of buses.  It just seems easier to manage than rewriting the software for overlaying caps if you can give the user the choice (and indeed the incentive) to pre-load their card well in advance, and limit capping to daily travel.

[Zoiks]

I still think we should apply to the principles of KISS

Personally I think we should phase out paper and replace with temporary go cards
These would be limited to single + (maybe daily)

Ours should be:
Tap once - Single
Tap again in the same day - Daily, all further trips are free
Tap during the week... after 5 days you get all further trips in the week free.


Simple. No worrying about having to select periodicals. All done for you. Load your money onto your card and go.

[somebody]

I still think we should apply to the principles of KISS

Personally I think we should phase out paper and replace with temporary go cards
These would be limited to single + (maybe daily)

Ours should be:
Tap once - Single
Tap again in the same day - Daily, all further trips are free
Tap during the week... after 5 days you get all further trips in the week free.


Simple. No worrying about having to select periodicals. All done for you. Load your money onto your card and go.

I don't think it should be like the seniors cap where if you do a 2 zone journey and then a 1 zone journey you can follow it with a free 10 zone journey.

Other than that, I don't really have an issue with what you are suggesting.  But what if one of the paid trips was in off peak?  Then you are getting a better deal than the old weeklies.