New fare strategy - articles and discussion

[Set in train]

"Mismanagement, waste and blunders by this tired, inept 20 year Labor government are driving passengers away from public transport, and today's fare increases will only worsen the hip pocket pain," Mr Emerson said.

Like P88? But on the other hand they built the busways, built rail extensions and funded the vehicles and money for BUZ, introduced Go Card and set up TransLink. And the LNP did.... *cricket sounds*

Rob Borbidge and Vaughan Johnson began the SE Transit Project, busway to Eight Mile Plains, transit lanes Klumpp to Gateway, second stage of transit lanes to Logan Mwy and bus lanes to Hyperdome were stopped when Beattie got in, in (by then) safe Beattie seats - it is the NCL of the south, the Landsborough abandoment of the south.

[Set in train]

Remember CanDo Newman was yabbering on about ALP dirt units only to discover that his own party had hired a former ALP staffer to write crap about ALP ministers.

Precisely, because leader Newman does not run the LNP parliamentary team nor any campaign effort, the self interested neither Lib or Nat heritage types in HQ do.

[#Metro]

No matter what the topic, the solution is 9 journeys and then free, they all follow the same pattern.

The LNP is totally scraping the barrel. Have they NOT SEEN the BUZ document by Alan Warren?

http://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/handle/2123/6058

People might say they want cheaper fares, but they are also voting with their feet when it comes to improved, frequent services.

The LNP 9 then free is a dead dodo policy. People are waking up. For example, What about HBU who lives near crapola rotten apple service? A discount is not going to do sh*te for him.

[Mr X]

You mean the 198 or the 230/235 (which I had to suffer with for 5 years  )? You are quite right, a discount won't make either of these two routes better. Except makes free weekend travel on them one journey closer (I fancy my Sunday tour de Hill End on the 198  ).


Now is the time for the LNP to move from being an opposition to being an effective alternative government. Do they believe in 15min off peak train frequencies? Cross River Rail? The "Core" (if they know what that is?)? How about a review into inefficiencies in the system?
We KNOW that the current service, for most people, is rotten apple. We know the price rises are higher than CPI. I don't want to see a media release from parties highlighting that. I want to see what they are going to do to make it better, and plagiarised discount policies isn't going to cut the mustard I'm afraid.

And the LNP did.... *cricket sounds*

Car Rapid Transit 

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail 5th January 2012 pages 24 and 25

Viewpoint: Paying more to use sub-standard public transport insults passengers





This article is online --> here!

[Fares_Fair]

IMHO, The Courier-Mail story above is an excellent summary of the fares situation.
Well done Jane Fynes-Clinton.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Set in train]

Good, Jane agrees that 2am peak fares are crazy too.

No real backbone to give long distance commuters an incentive to use trains with discounted or free travel before 7am, small steps, could make a concerted effort to increase the PT mode share of intercity commuters, but no, typical.

[Stillwater]

With no capacity for extra and faster trains on the Sunshine Coast Line due to the single track Beerburrum to Nambour, it would be interesting to see how the state government proposes to provide SCL customers with additional service for the higher fares being charged from 2 January.  Maybe they can look forward to a free copy of the daily newspaper on every seat (to read when the signal or points fail), or an urn of freshly-brewed coffee in every carriage (provided there is a working toilet on board).

[Fares_Fair]

With no capacity for extra and faster trains on the Sunshine Coast Line due to the single track Beerburrum to Nambour, it would be interesting to see how the state government proposes to provide SCL customers with additional service for the higher fares being charged from 2 January.  Maybe they can look forward to a free copy of the daily newspaper on every seat (to read when the signal or points fail), or an urn of freshly-brewed coffee in every carriage (provided there is a working toilet on board).

Lol
We do indeed wait with baited breath, legs crossed and a good (long) novel in hand ... 

Seriously, it is a very pertinent question SW, certainly one that I will be asking.
The improvements received to date being 3 extra peak services, up to 10% longer journey times and halved express lengths just doesn't cut the mustard.

The extra service put on for the overcrowding was certainly and sincerely appreciated, but even that new service was full from day 1.
It has customers standing for the best part of an hour in contravention of Queensland Rail's own standards which do not appear to be worth the web page they are written upon.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

Rail group says Go Card saves cash

Rail group says Go Card saves cash

Kristy Muir | 5th January 2012

PUBLIC transport users outraged at the announced 15% increase to fares have been urged to save money by using the Go Card.

Robert Dow, of Rail Back on Track, said it was time to embrace the Go Card and stop purchasing single fares.

"Forget paper tickets. The cost of those is excessive," he said.

"Go Cards save travellers 30 to 40% per trip, offer free travel after 10 paid journeys in a week and provide cheaper travel during off-peak times."

Mr Dow said if public transport users were savvy about planning their trips they could save a substantial sum of money.

His example of such a saving was for people who commuted from Nambour to Brisbane daily.

He said if you made a couple of extra (short) trips in the city during the week, you could ultimately claim the fare of your Friday commute.

The cost of travelling through 17 zones is $14.02 (one way), which means if you took two one-zone trips, off-peak (which cost $2.44 each), you could save $23.16 at the end of the week by using the 10-journey travel incentive.

"It is the most affordable way to use public transport," he said.

But currently about 75% of trips taken on Coast buses and trains use Go Card compared with 80% of trips across the TransLink network.

Mr Dow said he would like to see this percentage increase to 90%, with the help of community education through TransLink.

He also would like to see further incentives and concessions given to students and healthcare card holders.

"They are the ones who have it tough already and this increase in ticket prices won't help them," he said.

About 10 million trips were taken on Coast buses and trains in the past financial year.

And Mr Dow said despite the 15% increase people would continue to use public transport but they had to make the most of the TransLink incentives.

[ozbob]

Two independent candidates,  Bundamba, Angela Watson and Ipswich, Patricia Petersen made a call for a fare reduction of 90 % for a level at 10% of the present fares.  Channel 10 News ran a story on tonight's 5pm news bulletin highlighting this.  Comments from the Minister, and myself.  I managed to get 5 seconds and a comment re flagfall reduction and encouragement for ' go frequently, go free '.

I don't think this is going to go in actuality but a good political stunt none-the-less ...  as I have suggested a few times, there is a lot of grief along the Ippy.  It reminds me of the Frankston line in the political dynamic for the recent Victorian election.

[#Metro]

Two independent candidates,  Bundamba, Angela Watson and Ipswich, Patricia Petersen made a call for a fare reduction for 10% of the present fares. 

Discounts on rotten apples...

[O_128]

Two independent candidates,  Bundamba, Angela Watson and Ipswich, Patricia Petersen made a call for a fare reduction for 10% of the present fares. 

Discounts on rotten apples...

Any party that will buz the Ipswich line and CPI fares will win

[BrizCommuter]

Brisbane has the world's most expensive train system without an official delay refund policy. Oh dear!
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2012/01/can-i-have-refund-please.html

[Fares_Fair]

Nice piece Briz. 

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

Brisbane has the world's most expensive train system without an official delay refund policy. Oh dear!
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2012/01/can-i-have-refund-please.html

It is an issue that won't go away ...  --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2211.0

[mufreight]

Two independent candidates,  Bundamba, Angela Watson and Ipswich, Patricia Petersen made a call for a fare reduction for 10% of the present fares.  

Discounts on rotten apples...

No doubt but perhaps the turnover of apples would be considerably greater and therefor that would mean better quality and more affordable rotten apples.  

[mufreight]

Two independent candidates,  Bundamba, Angela Watson and Ipswich, Patricia Petersen made a call for a fare reduction for 10% of the present fares. 

Discounts on rotten apples...

Any party that will buz the Ipswich line and CPI fares will win

Of that there is no question for the three Ipswich seats.    

[somebody]

Labour probably wouldn't be believed if they promised it.  They'd have to implement it.

[dwb]

No, travel on Airtrain is not part of FUD  http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/go-card/airtrain

Used to be last year.  Not sure who paid for this oversight though.

It wasn't an oversight as it was advertised as such.... will see if I can find.

Was this way until late last year, did it on Christmas day for $7.50!

[dwb]

Sorry for straying off topic, but the what is at the core of the sh%t sandwich that is the Brisbane PT system is a political problem.  It requires a political solution.  Currently we have the BCC, QR and Translink all with their own chiefs, bureaucracies, coordinations subcommittees, accounting divisions, all hating but barely tolerating each other.  That is what is at the core of the problem.  We need a coordinated lobbying effort toward getting the state to do some very hard yards, put a broom through the whole system and start again.  Establish a single Met with buses, ferries, trains, with trains at the centre, and ticketing all under the one body.  One vision for one city.  Perth did it and reaped the rewards.  Until that happens, you're pretty much chasing your tail, you might have a little hard won victory getting an extra service put on somewhere, but another service will be stupidly cut somewhere else.

On that, you and I agree absolutely. (Surprised?  )

I have been suggesting that the State resume the BCC fleet and operations from day 1, so at least the whole publicly owned component of the network will have entirely one political flavour in situations like at present, where the council is (a) politicised at all, and (b) politically opposite to the government of the day.  No political mudslinging, common planning resources, one organisation that runs the show, and - to remedy one of the most obvious symptoms of the current dysfunction - one common livery for all buses in SEQ.

Ironically, it would not surprise me in the least if the LNP suggested doing this.  It would be at least one positive for what is currently a very scant PT policy.

Interesting thoughts Surfrail!

You can imagine if LNP won state but lost local they'd still be crowing about the buses, even though by then they'd have them painted green tee hee.

What would still be an issue however is that the roads themselves are still controlled by Council, and probably would continue to be even if we had a Met Transport Operator... I really really doubt ANYONE has the nous to get all modes tied in under one true Met authority!!

[dwb]

Good, Jane agrees that 2am peak fares are crazy too.

No real backbone to give long distance commuters an incentive to use trains with discounted or free travel before 7am, small steps, could make a concerted effort to increase the PT mode share of intercity commuters, but no, typical.

How many times does it need to be said, giving peak hr passengers an offpeak discount simply bc they are the biggest financial drain on the system (long distance) is NOT good policy.

2am is a programming issue.

[dwb]

Dude, I said the transfer rules were the problem. You know, how you have to pay again if your appointment at the dole office goes for more than an hour. Or if you want to transfer more than three times so that you can connect with another service.
The go-card system (different from the technology itself) has enshrined the archaic no-returns rule. The Translink website implicitly states that it is not to be used for return journeys. So therefore not amenable to providing value for money when travelling to multiple appointments.

All other capital cities in Australia including Darwin and Canberra provide concessions for health care card holders (best practice).

I can't work out what you are defending!

So are TT Ripoff and Antoniolino one and the same??

The go card system has incredibly flexible transfer rules and does allow returns... as long as the following service tag on is within one hour of the last tag off.  Get your facts right and then some of us might listen!

[ozbob]

From the Queensland Times click here!

Translink staff can't afford fares

Translink staff can't afford fares

Kieran Banks | 13th January 2012

TRANSLINK'S price increases have proved too much to bear for even the Queensland Government's own employees.

Queensland government workers, including TransLink, Treasury and Queensland Transport employees, are part of a group of fed-up commuters who have decided to stop using the train for their daily journeys to and from Brisbane.

Instead, they have organised a 12 vehicle carpool to avoid TransLink's rising fares.

Around 50 Ipswich commuters have joined the scheme, with each car carrying up to five passengers, which started on Monday.

The cost for a daily return seven-zone trip from Ipswich to Brisbane Central is $13.24.

TransLink fares increased by 15% in January, just as they did a year ago.

The saving per person can be quite significant, with early bird parking fees in the Brisbane CBD ranging from $15 to $22.

Most of the group's members know each other from travelling on the train and have links through an Ipswich sporting club.

Their group could expand the carpool if it proves successful.

Public servants taking part in the scheme have declined to be identified as they feel it may upset managers in their respective departments.

Originally the group considered chartering a 49-seater bus to drive the city workers into Brisbane each day, but the idea proved to be too inflexible.

Robert Dow, spokesman of public transport lobby group Rail Back on Track, said the carpool operation was proof commuters were not in favour of the fare hike.

"This highlights the public reaction to the fare increases," he said.

"Fifty people are now not using TransLink."

A TransLink spokesman said staff are encouraged to catch public transport to and from work.

"TransLink encourages active transport use such as cycling and walking, and carpooling is a smarter option than a single occupant driving a car.

"Public transport is still value for money compared to all the costs of running a private vehicle."

[#Metro]

BUZ 400
BUZ 230

Put those on and you'll get back 50 people, probably more

Of course the big issue is rail off-peak frequency - frequency totally inappropriate for SEQ!

Ipswich line has no excuse - two cities at either end with two major centres (Indro/Toowong) and a Uni as well...

[somebody]

BUZ 400
BUZ 230

Put those on and you'll get back 50 people, probably more

Of course the big issue is rail off-peak frequency - frequency totally inappropriate for SEQ!

Ipswich line has no excuse - two cities at either end with two major centres (Indro/Toowong) and a Uni as well...

Perhaps but how many people don't we know about?

I don't know how you can escape the conclusion that the fares are set too high!

[Jonas Jade]

...And what about next year when the fares rise yet again?  

How many more people will make the switch away because it will become cheaper to use private transport?

[#Metro]

I don't know how you can escape the conclusion that the fares are set too high!

98% of people travel by car
Cars cost $20 000 to buy and thousands per year to run plus parking.

So are cars too expensive?

Value for money - there are two sides to this equation.

Of course, anyone who lives near a rail station or sunshine coast is going to percieve VFM very differently to someone like me who lives next to a busway and has a bus every 30 seconds all day every day.

1. There needs to be more services, particularly on rail - Ips and FG lines

2. TransLink needs to start using the scrapper and the chainsaw and thinking about how much of the PT network is a welfare run and how much is a patronage run. Every day I see buses running around, going to the CBD with air on them. I see trains full of air. Many services should be turned into feeders and not be paid to run all the way into the CBD.

[somebody]

I don't know how you can escape the conclusion that the fares are set too high!

98% of people travel by car
Cars cost $20 000 to buy and thousands per year to run plus parking.

So are cars too expensive?

Apparently not as people are willing to pay the price.

[#Metro]

Apparently not as people are willing to pay the price.

I am somewhat biased because I live near a busway, multiple BUZ routes to choose from, so I'm fine with paying more - sure 1000x better than living near a 30 minute frequency train station AND paying 15% more to use their rotten apple service.

And of course, people who live in Ipswich or on the Sunshine Coast are going to scream for lower fares because they get the same old rubbish now at 15% more as well! They perceive a drop in VFM, whereas I have all this service and I think it is fantastic.

This is why I think TL needs to start chopping - bite the bullet and make serious radical changes to things like route 198, 460, 416, 476 etcetera. I know people will scream but the high fares gives TL now more of a moral authority to go out and make efficiencies by deleting, cutting, chopping and abolishing the deadwood and duplication within the network.

[Gazza]

To be fair, I've never been one to poo poo people doing stuff like this.
If everybody travelled 4 to a car in peak hour, then there wouldn't be traffic congestion anywhere near what we see today.

4 Lanes of the M1 with single occupant vehicles: 7200 people moved per hour.
With 4 to a car: 28800

28800 equals 443 bph, or 36 tph roughly.
Obviously the freeway isn't as spatially efficient as a railway, nor will we ever see a situation where 100% of cars actually do have 4 people.

But at least at the level of these people they are being rational, and are doing a positive thing for the environment.

It's like when people say "It's cheaper for my family of 6 to drive to the coast than take the train...well..cool!" You're basically doing the equivalent of driving a minibus, so you aren't really doing anthing that 'bad'.

Fares levels are still too high for individuals though.

[Jonas Jade]

To be fair, I've never been one to poo poo people doing stuff like this.
If everybody travelled 4 to a car in peak hour, then there wouldn't be traffic congestion anywhere near what we see today.

4 Lanes of the M1 with single occupant vehicles: 7200 people moved per hour.
With 4 to a car: 28800

28800 equals 443 bph, or 36 tph roughly.
Obviously the freeway isn't as spatially efficient as a railway, nor will we ever see a situation where 100% of cars actually do have 4 people.

But at least at the level of these people they are being rational, and are doing a positive thing for the environment.

It's like when people say "It's cheaper for my family of 6 to drive to the coast than take the train...well..cool!" You're basically doing the equivalent of driving a minibus, so you aren't really doing anthing that 'bad'.

Fares levels are still too high for individuals though.

Completely agreed!

I think their solution is very efficient as well and a great 2nd best outcome (in terms of congestion/sustainability).

[SteelPan]

THE answer to THE complete waste of time/nonesense issue created by a stupid govt and administered by stupid boffins - see, read, look, learn - ACTION.


Zone 1 Ticket - $5.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in Zone 1.
Zone 2 Ticket - $10.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in Zone 1 AND 2.
Zone 3 Ticket - $15.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in ALL ZONES.

Yes, you can buy a single trip ticket for travel within any of the above Zones at $2.50. ie, you cross 2 Zones it goes to $5 you cross 3 Zones it goes to $7.50.

How hard can it be - answer: as hard as the Quueeeensssland Govt/Dept of Morons can make it!

Finally - forget what they tell you - it IS about getting as many $$$$$'s as they can possibly get, in its current HOPELESS, Complex Structure.

Notice to ALL deadwood, I mean politicans, potential pollies and underworked & overstaffed boffins, you can take your FREE TRIP (wow a free trip!!!   ) after 10 or 9 paid for trips CON and shove it right up %^&*() $#@

[STB]

THE answer to THE complete waste of time/nonesense issue created by a stupid govt and administered by stupid boffins - see, read, look, learn - ACTION.


Zone 1 Ticket - $5.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in Zone 1.
Zone 2 Ticket - $10.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in Zone 1 AND 2.
Zone 3 Ticket - $15.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in ALL ZONES.

Yes, you can buy a single trip ticket for travel within any of the above Zones at $2.50. ie, you cross 2 Zones it goes to $5 you cross 3 Zones it goes to $7.50.

How hard can it be - answer: as hard as the Quueeeensssland Govt/Dept of Morons can make it!

Finally - forget what they tell you - it IS about getting as many $$$$$'s as they can possibly get, in its current HOPELESS, Complex Structure.

Notice to ALL deadwood, I mean politicans, potential and underworked & overstaffed boffins, you take your FREE TRIP (wow a free trip!!!   ) after 10 or 9 paid for trips CON and shove it right up %^&*() $#@

So as a uni student who travels at least 4 times a week from zones 1 to 5 currently, does that mean it would cost up between $40 to $60/week for me.  Get real!

Also evidently you haven't read the savings that Jeff has pointed out in that article, the 10 journeys then free.  I worked it out as a 25% saving than if he just travelled to/from work, for a uni student who does multiple journeys in a day that's a big saving!  I could easily reach 10 journeys by mid week.

[longboi]

THE answer to THE complete waste of time/nonesense issue created by a stupid govt and administered by stupid boffins - see, read, look, learn - ACTION.


Zone 1 Ticket - $5.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in Zone 1.
Zone 2 Ticket - $10.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in Zone 1 AND 2.
Zone 3 Ticket - $15.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in ALL ZONES.

Yes, you can buy a single trip ticket for travel within any of the above Zones at $2.50. ie, you cross 2 Zones it goes to $5 you cross 3 Zones it goes to $7.50.

How hard can it be - answer: as hard as the Quueeeensssland Govt/Dept of Morons can make it!

Finally - forget what they tell you - it IS about getting as many $$$$$'s as they can possibly get, in its current HOPELESS, Complex Structure.

Notice to ALL deadwood, I mean politicans, potential and underworked & overstaffed boffins, you take your FREE TRIP (wow a free trip!!!   ) after 10 or 9 paid for trips CON and shove it right up %^&*() $#@

LOL!! This is hilarious!

[SteelPan]

as a uni student, you would enjoy a concession fare of 50% of the values I set out in my post.

Current Zone 5 would likely be in my "Zone 2".  Therefore you'd travel to and from uni for $5 a day!   :conf

[STB]

THE answer to THE complete waste of time/nonesense issue created by a stupid govt and administered by stupid boffins - see, read, look, learn - ACTION.


Zone 1 Ticket - $5.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in Zone 1.
Zone 2 Ticket - $10.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in Zone 1 AND 2.
Zone 3 Ticket - $15.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in ALL ZONES.

Yes, you can buy a single trip ticket for travel within any of the above Zones at $2.50. ie, you cross 2 Zones it goes to $5 you cross 3 Zones it goes to $7.50.

How hard can it be - answer: as hard as the Quueeeensssland Govt/Dept of Morons can make it!

Finally - forget what they tell you - it IS about getting as many $$$$$'s as they can possibly get, in its current HOPELESS, Complex Structure.

Notice to ALL deadwood, I mean politicans, potential and underworked & overstaffed boffins, you take your FREE TRIP (wow a free trip!!!   ) after 10 or 9 paid for trips CON and shove it right up %^&*() $#@

LOL!! This is hilarious!

Damaging credibility to the forum is what I call it.  But yes I did giggle a bit.

[SteelPan]

THE answer to THE complete waste of time/nonesense issue created by a stupid govt and administered by stupid boffins - see, read, look, learn - ACTION.


Zone 1 Ticket - $5.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in Zone 1.
Zone 2 Ticket - $10.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in Zone 1 AND 2.
Zone 3 Ticket - $15.00 all day, as many trips as you like, one station or all stations in ALL ZONES.

Yes, you can buy a single trip ticket for travel within any of the above Zones at $2.50. ie, you cross 2 Zones it goes to $5 you cross 3 Zones it goes to $7.50.

How hard can it be - answer: as hard as the Quueeeensssland Govt/Dept of Morons can make it!

Finally - forget what they tell you - it IS about getting as many $$$$$'s as they can possibly get, in its current HOPELESS, Complex Structure.

Notice to ALL deadwood, I mean politicans, potential and underworked & overstaffed boffins, you take your FREE TRIP (wow a free trip!!!   ) after 10 or 9 paid for trips CON and shove it right up %^&*() $#@

LOL!! This is hilarious!

Friend - my original post is actually a little on the "expensive" side compared to what many cities charge!

[STB]

as a uni student, you would enjoy a concession fare of 50% of the values I set out in my post.

Current Zone 5 would likely be in my "Zone 2".  Therefore you'd travel to and from uni for $5 a day!   :conf

Firstly, show some respect to those who do work in Government.

Secondly, be more clearer in your rants.

Thirdly I pay $2.18 under the new fares plus I get closer to getting free travel for each journey I do.  The fares could possibly be a bit lower but I wouldn't support your idea.

EDIT: The structure is NOT complex,  if you can't understand 10 journeys then free (1, 2, free for pensioners and seniors), then oh dear my friend.  :conf

[SteelPan]

1) Respect to govt boffins - ahh would these be the same type of people running the Qld Health Dept - as just one example?

2) the fact that SOME peoples fares might actually rise slightly indicates the idea may well have a sound financial footing.

3) if you think, the SE Qld Translink ticketing and zoning system is effective and efficient way to run a PT system - you must never have got around much!

It is a JOKE.

Tell me, as say a visting tourist - and of course we all know Queensland is very tourist focused, it's one of our major industries - what TODAY, would I pay for a flat rate, go anywhere, all day public transit ticket??