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Articles and discussion: Fourth tunnel Brisbane's west

Started by ozbob, September 25, 2009, 03:47:15 AM

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ozbob

From the Courier Mail click here!

Fourth tunnel planned to ease gridlock in Brisbane's west

Quote
Fourth tunnel planned to ease gridlock in Brisbane's west
Article from: The Courier-Mail

Ursula Heger

September 25, 2009 12:00am

A FOURTH major road tunnel in Brisbane has been proposed as part of the Bligh Government's strategy to prevent looming gridlock in the city's west.

After years of uncertainty for residents in Brisbane's western suburbs, a strategy to be released today shows a bypass could be built by linking the Centenary Highway underground from Toowong to Everton Park, where existing roads lead to the Bruce Highway.

The proposed tunnel, which is only a concept at this stage, would finally deliver an orbital ring road system to Brisbane, linking the Ipswich Motorway to the Bruce Highway.

The tunnel has been included in the Western Brisbane Transport Strategy, which outlines the State Government's plans for roads, and public and active transport in the western suburbs until 2026.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said that, while no funding had been set aside for the tunnel, a corridor of land between Toowong and Everton Park would be reserved from other development.

"There have been questions for some time about how you do a northern road link and this finally determines that the best way to do that would be a tunnel from Centenary Highway up to Everton Park," Ms Nolan said.

"You then keep the Trouts Rd corridor, which is a corridor that Main Roads has owned for some time. That is where you would build it and that corridor will now be preserved for that process."

The proposal is an alternative to the feared western suburbs bypass road deemed unviable after traffic projections were found to be too low to reduce congestion on other roads.

Other strategies being considered include a "staged transformation of the Ipswich rail line into a high-capacity surface rail system" and bus lanes along existing western roads.

The strategy will involve a complete overhaul of the west's rail timetables to increase the frequency of services in peak periods and allow them to eventually carry 30,000 people every hour.

"The study endorses a number of projects that are currently under way ? things like the northern busway, the rail improvements on the Ipswich line and putting more rollingstock on the existing lines," Ms Nolan said.

"It says that rail should continue to be the backbone of transport in that part of the world, and you can substantially increase the number of rail services, through a process known as sectorisation of the rail network."
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ozbob

All this has been floated before.  Why is it I am not convinced that these grand plans will proceed?

Blog comment:

QuoteMore roads and road tunnels has not worked anywhere in the world to really manage the transport needs of vibrant cities.  Rather than just ramping up the main western railway line all lines need ramping up together with the increase in capacity through the cross river rail project.  

Does anyone have any hope in these grand study plans when the the Queensland Auditor General recently exposed Queensland Transport's planning processes as an abysmal failure?

::)
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ozbob

Editorial Courier Mail September 25  click here!

Transport plan short on detail

Quote
Transport plan short on detail
Article from: The Courier-Mail

September 25, 2009 12:00am

THE Bligh Government is set to release today another proposal to solve ? or, at least, alleviate ? the traffic chaos that is slowly choking suburbs in Brisbane's west.
The product of a two-year, $19 million investigation, the Western Brisbane Transport Network Strategy is an attractive looking document that says all the right things about long-term planning, improving public transport and the need for an orbital arterial road system in Brisbane to handle freight and commuter traffic and hand back suburban streets to residents. However, that is about all of substance that it does say.

While the strategy proposes a road tunnel between Toowong and Everton Park as a solution to the area's traffic woes, the Government has been careful to surround the plan with enough caveats to enable it to walk away from the idea if it becomes too politically risky. The trouble is that this type of approach to transport planning in Brisbane's west has been going on for more than 20 years, to the chagrin of local residents and commuters alike. Successive governments have put off making significant decisions about improving traffic flows in the western suburbs, a record of inaction that has ensured the gradual deterioration of key intersections into choke points that contribute to congestion rather than relieve it. The only firm proposals, such as the Northern Link tunnel, have tended to come from the Brisbane City Council which, incidentally, has had little to do with drawing up the strategy to be released today.

The true purpose of the Western Brisbane Transport Network Strategy is to kill off any notion that the Government has any concrete proposals up its sleeve for the despised western bypass road, a project that has been lurking in the background of transport planning in southeast Queensland for decades. But in killing off that plan, the Government raises many more questions than it answers. Though it says it will retain existing road corridors, there is no commitment from the strategy about what it proposes to do with them. Its centrepiece, the 10km tunnel between Toowong and Everton Park, is illustrated with an imprecise line on a map. No costings have been done and the project appears a long way from making it into any of the Government's existing infrastructure plans. Yet without it this strategy ? all $19 million of it ? is as light as a feather.

The Government is right to engage in long-term transport planning but if it is to avoid repeating the panic-filled and expensive rush that has characterised recent infrastructure spending in southeast Queensland, it needs to commit to certain key projects well before the time comes for them to be built. Preserving transport corridors is one necessary step, as are getting the most out of existing transport infrastructure and putting forward proposals about new infrastructure for the public to consider. But none of these provide the comfort of certainty for the region's residents and commuters. As it stands, this transport strategy is more remarkable for the things it does not deliver rather what it will.
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#Metro

Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

ozbob

From Brisbanetimes click here!

Tunnel vision: fourth underground road on cards

QuoteTunnel vision: fourth underground road on cards
DANIEL HURST
September 25, 2009 - 7:57AM

Be the first to comment

Brisbane may get a fourth major road tunnel in the future, with the State Government flagging a link from Toowong to Everton Park in the city's west.

The Western Brisbane Transport Strategy, to be unveiled today, will outline a corridor for the proposed tunnel to connect the Western Freeway with roads that lead to the Bruce Highway.

A spokeswoman for Transport Minister Rachel Nolan confirmed the government would set aside land for the tunnel, but funding was yet to be allocated to the project.

It was unclear when the tunnel would be built, she said this morning.

The State Government is already building the Airport Link tunnel to take motorists from Bowen Hills to the Brisbane Airport area, while Brisbane City Council has nearly finished building the Clem 7 cross-river tunnel between Bowen Hills and Woolloongabba.

The council this month announced it would push ahead with plans to build the Northern Link tunnel connecting the Western Freeway at Toowong to the Inner City Bypass at Kelvin Grove, borrowing money to deliver the project by 2014.

The new Western Brisbane Transport Strategy will guide the development of the transport system in the western suburbs.

The investigation that informed the plan was supposed to consider all transport modes, including freight, public transport, roads, walking and cycling.
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ButFli

Is this tunnel in addition to the proposed Northern Link tunnel or instead of it? One wonders how many tunnel entrances can be built at the end of the Centenary Highway in Toowong!

The amount of road tunnel digging - both proposed and underway - in this city is beyond belief! What we really need is more rail tunnels or even a bus tunnel.

ozbob

Minister for Transport
The Honourable Rachel Nolan
25/09/2009

Green vision for transport in Brisbane's West

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan today released a long-term sustainable transport vision for western Brisbane's transport network.

Minister Nolan said the Western Brisbane Transport Network Strategy would form a planning blueprint for all levels of government in creating an integrated transport network of rail, bus, road, freight, walking and cycling over the next 20 years.

"There is no shortage of transport infrastructure projects taking place across Brisbane but until this document there wasn't a unifying or underlying planning blueprint to tie it altogether in the western region," Ms Nolan said.

"This strategy gives western Brisbane a long-term, coordinated transport plan which embodies sustainable or 'green' transport principles.

"Sustainable forms of transport such as public and active transport feature heavily in the strategy but the plan also seeks efficiencies in the infrastructure we already have for environmental and economic reasons," Ms Nolan said.

"With the dual challenges of climate change and world-wide financial difficulties, we need to focus on getting the most out of current infrastructure even as we are designing and planning the next round of major projects.

"The strategy confirms the value of setting aside transport corridors for the future and builds on current projects in the South East Queensland Infrastructure Plan and Program.

"If transport corridors like these had been part of transport and town planning 20 or 30 years ago, we wouldn't now be resuming properties to build busways and we'd have billions of dollars of extra funding for services.

"We can't turn back the clock but we can ensure these corridors are part of the planning landscape for the next 20 years."

Ms Nolan said there were four key components to the strategy: rail, bus priority, active transport choices and a future north-south motorway.

"The strategy builds on the significant rail infrastructure projects occurring in south east Queensland in recent years," Ms Nolan said.

"For example, the rail track duplication from Mitchelton to Keperra has been completed to enable additional peak hour services on the Ferny Grove line."

Ms Nolan said the strategy would complement the Cross River Rail project (previously known as phase 1 of the Inner City Rail Upgrade), which aimed to increase suburban rail capacity and give Brisbane a modern underground rail network.

Ms Nolan said the two-year $19 million investigation was a large logistical exercise and an example of good consultation leading to good outcomes.

"The consultation work behind this strategy is unique in itself as it involved asking more than a million people for their input since 2007, receiving almost 4000 written submissions and 'in person' briefings with more than 3000 people," Ms Nolan said.

In relation to road transport, the Strategy supports the need for Brisbane City Council's proposed Northern Link tunnel and it proposes a longer term road connection from the Ipswich Motorway at Darra to the Bruce Highway, including a motorway tunnel linking Toowong to Everton Park.

"It rules out once and for all the much-talked about Western Brisbane Bypass," Ms Nolan said.

"Other projects in the strategy will be included in future updates of the South East Queensland Infrastructure Plan and Program.

"This is a long term, sustainable strategy based on key principles which make better use of existing infrastructure, prioritise transport corridor space and builds on current infrastructure programs."

Members of the public can view the Western Brisbane Transport Network Strategy by visiting their local State Government member's office and libraries in western Brisbane or by visiting www.transport.qld.gov.au/wbtni (after midday on 25 September 2009) or by contacting 3237 1111.

Ms Nolan said that many large-scale transport infrastructure projects already underway in Brisbane would make a large impact on the transport network as a whole in the coming years. These projects include:

   * $1.88 billion Gateway Upgrade
   * $4.8 billion Airport Link
   * $3.2 billion CLEM7 Tunnel
   * $1.7 billion Northern Link
   * $2.5 billion Ipswich Motorway upgrade
   * $800 million Darra to Springfield road/rail project
   * $910 million Pacific Motorway upgrade
   * $370 million Hale Street Link

"In five years' time, these projects will be completed or nearing completion and we will be well positioned to judge which projects will be the highest priority on this transport planning blueprint for Brisbane's western region," Ms Nolan said.

==============================================================
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Jon Bryant

I am shocked at the artistic license that has been taken with the word sustainable.  Sustainable my %$$#!  No freeway style road project is sustainable by its nature as they increase fossil fuel usage, increase CO2 and become congested in under 3 years.  What is suatainable about a road that solves a problem for 3 years.  Pure blinkered madness.  The State and local Government's catch cry should be "Solving Tomorrow's Problems with Last Century's ideas...which have already proven to be Wrong!!!" 

Building this forth tunnel will ensure that Brisbane becomes Gridlocked not avoid it.  Look at all ring road systems around the world they are CAR PARKS!!!

This is an absolute waste of my hard earned taxes and the full burden of this will be bourne by our children financially, evironmentally and with their health.

:pr  :pr  :pr   :pr  :pr  :pr   :pr  :pr  :pr  :pr  :pr   :pr  :pr

david

To be honest, I'd much prefer this tunnel to the Northern Link tunnel as it truly removes traffic from the CBD. Also, the Inner City Bypass may not be able to handle the huge increases of traffic from the Clem7, Airport Link and the Hale St Link, so feeding the BCC's Northern Link tunnel into the ICB would cause disaster. Building the Northern Link and this tunnel would just be a simple waste of money. We need to choose one and one only.

I say, scrap the Northern Link for this tunnel. Then, the Northern Link could become the new Western Busway :D

Yes, I admit that building more tunnels is not the way to go, but there is a SERIOUS need for some some of West-North connector bypassing the city, and frankly, the Inner City Bypass doesn't cut it, as traffic has to battle its way through Milton Rd. I can see the viewpoints of those saying it is not sustainable (the Gateway Motorway is one prime example, already needing massive upgrades after only about 30 years (from memory...)), but we simply cannot move all freight by rail, or expect that everyone will magically give up driving. The best we can do is to target those heading into the major centres (CBD, Chermside, Upper Mt Gravatt, Toowong, Indooroopilly, Carindale) and convince them to give up cars for public transport, as they make up the majority of trips.

ozbob

Update Brisbanetimes click here!

'$19 million squiggle on a map'

Quote'$19 million squiggle on a map'
DANIEL HURST
September 25, 2009 - 12:20PM

Brisbane may get a fourth major road tunnel in the future, with the State Government flagging a link from Toowong to Everton Park in the city's west.

But the State Opposition today dismissed the Western Brisbane Transport Strategy as a "$19 million squiggle on a map".

The plan includes a corridor for the proposed tunnel to connect the Western Freeway with roads that lead to the Bruce Highway. The Government plans to set aside land for the tunnel, but the construction is yet to be funded and timeframes are unclear.

In a statement, Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said the tunnel proposal was part of a mix of transport solutions outlined in the strategy.

"If transport corridors like these had been part of transport and town planning 20 or 30 years ago, we wouldn't now be resuming properties to build busways and we'd have billions of dollars of extra funding for services," she said.

"We can't turn back the clock but we can ensure these corridors are part of the planning landscape for the next 20 years."

Ms Nolan added: "It rules out once and for all the much-talked about Western Brisbane Bypass."

However, the Liberal National Party's transport spokeswoman, Fiona Simpson, said the $19 million study was short on detail.

"This is nothing more than another line on a map," she said.

"The Labor Government?s own study document indicates this project is 15 to 25 years off at best, which means we are unlikely to see a tunnel until 2030 at the earliest."

The State Government is already building the Airport Link tunnel to take motorists from Bowen Hills to the Brisbane Airport area, while Brisbane City Council has nearly finished building the Clem 7 cross-river tunnel between Bowen Hills and Woolloongabba.

The council this month announced it would push ahead with plans to build the Northern Link tunnel connecting the Western Freeway at Toowong to the Inner City Bypass at Kelvin Grove, borrowing money to deliver the project by 2014.

The new Western Brisbane Transport Strategy will guide the development of the transport system in the western suburbs.

The investigation that informed the plan was supposed to consider all transport modes, including freight, public transport, roads, walking and cycling.
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#Metro

Ha ha.

This looks a bit like a back door ICB duplication, just shifted further west to Toowong. The ICB was supposed to do the job of serving traffic on a north-west axis.

    * $1.88 billion Gateway Upgrade
    * $4.8 billion Airport Link
    * $3.2 billion CLEM7 Tunnel
    * $1.7 billion Northern Link
    * $2.5 billion Ipswich Motorway upgrade
    * $800 million Darra to Springfield road/rail project
    * $910 million Pacific Motorway upgrade
    * $370 million Hale Street Link

Western Busway: $0.00 ::)

I know that we need new roads/tunnels etc. We always have. But it seems like you could get a lot of PT for $14.08 billion.
One asks the question, "If CBD bypasses are so popular, why aren't PT bypasses as popular either?".
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Dean Quick

Please tell me they are not seriously contemplating yet another hole in the ground that will somehow end the traffic?? What deranged knuckleheads have come up with this money wasting grand plan?? I say no more freeways and put the money into PT instead. 

#Metro

#13
I think the politicians are trying to dazzle us with the numbers.

I mean, if the tunnel cost $1000000000 billion, it doesn't really tell me anything about whether it is a fundamentally good project when compared to the alternatives.

Looks like the 1960's Wilbur Smith plan returns- underground!
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ozbob

Here is the study link

--> Western Brisbane transport Network Strategy

Rail click here!
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ozbob

This from the Rail section of the WBTNS  Rail page 14

Quotesectorisation ? operating the rail network as two independent units provides the ability to increase frequency and reliability of services
during peak periods (as pictured right). This is a key to unlocking the full potential of the rail network




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#Metro

This report is actually quite good, although it is still concept at the moment.
There aren't any timeframes or impacts determined yet.

* Feeder bus! :-t
* BUZ frequency rail services  :-t
* Bikeways :-t

It is important that bicycles be allowed a section on trains during peak hour.
No Western Busway yet.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

ozbob

Yes,  good to see some clearer thinking and strategies for rail bus and active transport. 

We need to get cracking!  :)
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ozbob

It is interesting that the trains being built for Perth do have the bicycle stickers on them.

Presently restrictions at peak both Perth and Brisbane.  

Modify lead carriages, longitudinal seating with more room at doors with flip seating, room for bicycles.  Bicycles in car 1 only.  People wish to avoid travel in other carriages.  As frequency increases no reason why bicycles couldn't be carried at peak.  

:P
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#Metro

QuoteIt is interesting that the trains being built for Perth do have the bicycle stickers on them.

The new trains in perth are the same new trains running right now in Brisbane. A few racks inside would do the job.
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somebody

#20
Quote from: ozbob on September 25, 2009, 14:04:56 PM
This from the Rail section of the WBTNS  Rail page 14

Quotesectorisation
The image shows quite unbalanced sectorisation, with the Shorncliffe line now connected to the suburbans.  Won't this result in a lot of Bowen Hills terminators/starters for the Ipswich/Springfield line(s)?  And what about Roma St terminators/starters to/from the Airport, are these to be stabled elsewhere?

I think complete sectorisation is pretty much a pipe dream.  It would be nice if we could just get rid of some needless crossings.  The Doomben line is really only half a line, so how can you balance the network completely?  And those unbalanced suburban trains need to cross the mains to access Mayne yard.

ozbob

Tramtrain has nailed it IMHO:

QuoteThere aren't any timeframes or impacts determined yet.

When one looks towards the Springfield experience (completion progressively pushed back, single line sections and mythical stations at Ellen Grove and Springfield Lakes)  it is difficult not to be a little sceptical. 

The cross river rail project needs to be accelerated.  This is a key as well as more stabling out on the network.  These two things alone will allow more frequent services (rolling stock crew being available). 

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Jon Bryant

This city needs an inner and outer rail loop line(s) to allow people to move around the City.  Continuing to think that all rail can/should go throught the CBD ensure that rail/public tarnsport does not met the need of the people.  We can hope to make the existing CBD focused rail system as fast and frequent as we like but it still does not cater for th 80% of trips that go around the CBD.  There is no hope for this City.  It will die a death of a 1000 roads choked to death by its own pollution and congestion.

RIP Brisbane.  You were a pretty city once.  >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(

#Metro

With all these bypasses, tunnels/funnels, Gateways, flyovers, Brisbane is going to have a transport and traffic heart attack. Actually, perhaps it already is.

Fair enough, people with cars are humans too and they have needs etc.
However, city space and cash is at a premium, not something one wastes.

A loop could be completed using Rail or Buses, or both. A busway from Adelaide, through the CBD, to RBWH would close a ring around the inner city. A green bridge or tunnel from Bulimba to Tennerife would close a larger loop with the Cleveland line. This line is odd. It shouldn't have to go via Boggo Rd- that is too indirect.
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ozbob

Media Release 25 September 2009

SEQ:  Western Brisbane Transport Network Strategy

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has welcomed the public release of the Western Brisbane Transport Network Strategy (1).

Robert Dow, spokesperson for RAIL Back On Track said:

"We welcome recognition of the fact that rail is the backbone of the plan. The neglect of rail for a long period is the fundamental reason that we have a less than an optimal public transport system today."

"Rail can and will give the capacity needed for the future line transport needs in south-east Queensland.  Augmented by bus, light rail and active transport options, there is a sustainable transport future outlined in this plan."

"A plan is nothing however unless it is actioned and turned into reality."

References:

1.  http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/ebd8430e44211d5/Pdf_wbtns_complete.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
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longboi

Quote from: somebody on September 25, 2009, 15:22:14 PM
Quote from: ozbob on September 25, 2009, 14:04:56 PM
This from the Rail section of the WBTNS  Rail page 14

Quotesectorisation
The image shows quite unbalanced sectorisation, with the Shorncliffe line now connected to the suburbans.  Won't this result in a lot of Bowen Hills terminators/starters for the Ipswich/Springfield line(s)?  And what about Roma St terminators/starters to/from the Airport, are these to be stabled elsewhere?

I think complete sectorisation is pretty much a pipe dream.  It would be nice if we could just get rid of some needless crossings.  The Doomben line is really only half a line, so how can you balance the network completely?  And those unbalanced suburban trains need to cross the mains to access Mayne yard.

They have heaps of room for stabling upgrades to balance it out. Redbank and Petrie on the Ipswich-Caboolture corridor. Then Shorncliffe and Thorneside on the South Brisbane corridor.

O_128

im sure someone ont his forum had an idea for a rail line along or near trouts road.
"Where else but Queensland?"

somebody

Quote from: nikko on September 26, 2009, 16:30:40 PM
They have heaps of room for stabling upgrades to balance it out. Redbank and Petrie on the Ipswich-Caboolture corridor. Then Shorncliffe and Thorneside on the South Brisbane corridor.
I was more talking about stabling after AM peak and emerging from it before the PM peak.  You can use the Ferny Grove line's flyover for southbound trains before the PM peak, but Northbound trains need to do something trickier if they are to avoid crossing the mains.  Unless you are going to run all the way from Thorneside empty.

longboi

Quote from: somebody on September 26, 2009, 17:38:29 PM
Quote from: nikko on September 26, 2009, 16:30:40 PM
They have heaps of room for stabling upgrades to balance it out. Redbank and Petrie on the Ipswich-Caboolture corridor. Then Shorncliffe and Thorneside on the South Brisbane corridor.
I was more talking about stabling after AM peak and emerging from it before the PM peak.  You can use the Ferny Grove line's flyover for southbound trains before the PM peak, but Northbound trains need to do something trickier if they are to avoid crossing the mains.  Unless you are going to run all the way from Thorneside empty.

You could just run a Thorneside terminator after AM peak and then stable. Just before PM peak, trains can run empty to Cleveland then do a quick turnback for a Northbound peak service.

mufreight

Seems like everyone is loosing sight of the fact that track capacity constraints limit the numbers of services that can operate through the CBD and until such time as there are infrastructure upgrades such as the connection from Dutton Park to the Exhibition loop everything else is pie in the sky impracticality and the reality is that no matter how many services are operated as turnbacks with the network as presently configured it is bordering on gridlock at the present time with a relative few additional services able to be operated in the peaks.   :is- :-t

somebody

Quote from: mufreight on September 26, 2009, 19:56:00 PM
Seems like everyone is loosing sight of the fact that track capacity constraints limit the numbers of services that can operate through the CBD and until such time as there are infrastructure upgrades such as the connection from Dutton Park to the Exhibition loop everything else is pie in the sky impracticality and the reality is that no matter how many services are operated as turnbacks with the network as presently configured it is bordering on gridlock at the present time with a relative few additional services able to be operated in the peaks.   :is- :-t
Yes, but there is still some unused capacity.  With 32tph northbound in the peak according to another poster, and a capacity of 44, we haven't reached capacity yet.  If we can get rid of all of the suburban tracks' Roma St terminators/starters which cross the mains to access Mayne, we should be able to get much nearer to that capacity.

Seems to be room at Tennyson for a couple of trains too.

longboi

Quote from: somebody on September 27, 2009, 08:59:22 AM
Quote from: mufreight on September 26, 2009, 19:56:00 PM
Seems like everyone is loosing sight of the fact that track capacity constraints limit the numbers of services that can operate through the CBD and until such time as there are infrastructure upgrades such as the connection from Dutton Park to the Exhibition loop everything else is pie in the sky impracticality and the reality is that no matter how many services are operated as turnbacks with the network as presently configured it is bordering on gridlock at the present time with a relative few additional services able to be operated in the peaks.   :is- :-t
Seems to be room at Tennyson for a couple of trains too.

Pac Nat do shunting at Moolabin yard though, so there really isn't that much room for electrics.

somebody

Quote from: nikko on September 27, 2009, 09:38:07 AM
Quote from: somebody on September 27, 2009, 08:59:22 AM
Seems to be room at Tennyson for a couple of trains too.

Pac Nat do shunting at Moolabin yard though, so there really isn't that much room for electrics.
I was talking about the siding to the east of that, near the electric substation or whatever that is.  Or is that owned by Pac Nat too?  It would have to be electrified if it isn't already.

#Metro

Seems like getting into/out of Mayne yards is acting like a big constrictor.
Can't they build a flyover/tunnel so that the crossing conflicts are reduced?
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ozbob

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dwb

wrt sectorisation... imho airport line would seem a good one to cross the sectorisation.. ie airport to ipswich services no interchange, just as airport to gold coast services exist...

longboi

Quote from: tramtrain on September 27, 2009, 12:05:35 PM
Seems like getting into/out of Mayne yards is acting like a big constrictor.
Can't they build a flyover/tunnel so that the crossing conflicts are reduced?

The problem is that to go North, you have to go around the Ekka loop and through Roma St. All they need to do is link up the Eastern Stabling Yard (new one) to the Northern mainline for services running empty to/from the North.

Jon Bryant

This is where all our tunnels are headed.  Bankruptcy or Fire Sale.

From Reuters http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssFinancialServicesAndRealEstateNews/idUSSYD48203520090928

QuoteSYDNEY, Sept 29 (Reuters) - Leighton Holdings Ltd (LEI.AX), Mirvac Group (MGR.AX) and Hong Kong businessman Li Ka-shing will sell a Sydney road tunnel as losses mount due to lower than forecast usage, The Australian Financial Review reported on Tuesday.

Without citing sources, the newspaper said the three have already written off all their equity in the Lane Cove tunnel project while debt funders are likely to take a large loss.

The project, in the north of Sydney, cost A$1.6 billion ($1.4 billion) to build.

It said investment bank Goldman Sachs has been appointed to sell the tunnel, which is owned by the Connector Motorways Consortium. New York firm MBIA, representing bondholders, is leading the sales process, the newspaper said. ($1=1.147 Australian Dollar)

People are voting with their feet for public transport and these are bad investments.  Check your super fund. It will have invested in these duds.  Get your money out of them now.

#Metro

Why can't super funds etc invest in PT?
Or even improvements to the freight rail network which would have flow on benefits for commuters?

Investing in PT could be considered a "Socially Resposible Investment".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socially-responsible_investing
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

Jon Bryant

The study (like the rest) makes the same old "flawed" assumption that PT growth is limited irrespective of the number, frequency and cost of services provided.  The assumption is that only a small number of trips will ever be made by PT.  Zurich, Vienna and Vancouver clearly prove this to wrong.  And they are lower density cities as well.  As anybody who used PT in SEQ at the moment can assert there seems to be no limit to the number of people wishing to catch PT.

Until this fundamental assumption is removed from all our studies and development assesments then PT will be crowded, under funded and in catch up mode. Worse our road systems will be designed and built to cater for the rest in peak hour.  Thus guaranteeing that driving is easier and quicker.  The study itself states that PT should be almost as quick as driving.  IT SHOULD BE FASTER THAN DRIVING!!!!

With this assumption our PT system is only being built to cater for 7% of tips and the rest by motor vehicle.  The truth is that upwards of 70% of all trips can be made on public or active transport.  The rest are light vehicle/freight.

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