Eastern Busway

[MaxHeadway]

What's clockface?

Clockface timetabling means regular intervals between services which are easily memorable, bringing to mind the face of a clock. For instance, every 20 minutes might mean buses at :14 :34 :54 past each hour. That makes it easy to remember, as opposed to irregularly-spaced services, or weird frequencies (such as every 18, 40 or 45 minutes).

[somebody]

What's clockface?

Clockface timetabling means regular intervals between services which are easily memorable, bringing to mind the face of a clock. For instance, every 20 minutes might mean buses at :14 :34 :54 past each hour. That makes it easy to remember, as opposed to irregularly-spaced services, or weird frequencies (such as every 18, 40 or 45 minutes).

I know that, but looking at the 204 timetable you'd think that they don't.

[Golliwog]

With the 204, not sure what with, but perhaps they're going for a timed interchange with something instead of clockface?

[Mr X]

Irregular timetabling reduces people's faith in the system, though from an operational point of view is more resource intensive (longer dwell times at terminus?).

[Golliwog]

Ok, and advertising has commenced. Just went to the brisbanetimes.com.au homepage. Never seen so much Translink Orange 

Only downside is it only says "More seats, more services, shorter travel times from Monday 29th August" Nothing about where the upgrade is happening. But if you click on it, it takes you directly to the service update that lists all the changes.

[jouzocha]

These are the timetables that I've been able to find on the TransLink website so far.  The numbers in bold are the routes that have been altered/times changed (according to TL, I haven't checked them all myself )

Routes 29. 109, 139, 169, 209
Routes 202, 203, P205, P208
Routes 213, 214, 215, P216, 220, P221, N226
Route 590
Route 204
Routes 250, N250
Routes 270, 271, 277, 278, 279

196/199 timetable has changed.. anyone know what is different?

• 11:45pm 199 from Teneriffe to West End on Friday night has been added.
• 11:45pm 199 from Teneriffe to West End on Saturday night has been added.
• 11:50pm and 12:20am 199 from West End to Teneriffe on Friday night have been added.
• 11:50pm and 12:20am 199 from West End to Teneriffe on Saturday night have been added.

That's all I could find, anyway.  Interesting how TransLink aren't publicising these new services.

[WTN]

196/199 timetable has changed.. anyone know what is different?

• 11:45pm 199 from Teneriffe to West End on Friday night has been deleted.
• 11:45pm 199 from Teneriffe to West End on Saturday night has been deleted.
• 11:50pm and 12:20am 199 from West End to Teneriffe on Friday night has been deleted.
• 11:50pm and 12:20am 199 from West End to Teneriffe on Saturday night has been deleted.

That's all I could find, anyway.  Interesting how TransLink aren't publicising the deletion of services  although I assume they think CityGlider will cover most of the patronage anyway.

Actually it's the other way round, those services have been added.

Translink also dropped a colourful flyer into my letterbox. The Eastern Busway is having a community day on Saturday 27th August, 10am-2pm. Entry is via the new busway stations (Beata St on Stones Corner or Main Ave on Langlands Park). I'll be heading to this one as I didn't go to the UQ one.

[Golliwog]

Have they finished the Beata St pedestrian entrance that comes off Old Cleveland Rd yet? I don't know why they insisted on putting in the boardwalk stuff when some trees would have been fine.

[Bulimba30A]

Re what I would have done re 200, I would have simply sent it via Buranda and let 204 keep going via Gabba. The cynic in me thinks that the only reason the new stops were added is to justify it still going via the Gabba.  Otherwise, why couldn't they have done it sooner?

I completely understand the politics around perceived dropping of services.  But it is advertising a better product all round which gets around this problem. That is, reducing one seat services must be done in conjunction with something else (eg increased frequency). To do one without the other will win little public support.  I guess that is my real disappointment about missed opportunities.  There is very little chance now that the 200 or 222 will be de-buzzed regardless of performance as that will be seen to be reducing services.

The best opportunity with new services is to get it right first time. Change is much harder as there will always be losers (and they tend to be the ones with the loudest voice).

[Bulimba30A]

I did the 204/201 connection from Belmont Rd to the City yesterday morning, mainly because the 216 was late.

There was about 30 people who queued up in the 10 minutes I was at Carindale but only about half took the 201.  The rest waited for the next 222 (which is the only other route from that stop).  There was only a couple of people standing on the 201 when we left Carindale.

The one thing I didn't realise (as I have not done it for a while) is that the 201 gets stuck in traffic along Chatsworth Rd (it also had to sit through a change of lights getting across Creek Rd).  I'm not sure whether this is usually the case.  I'd say that with the busway opening, Old Cleveland Rd could now be quicker for the 201.  Times on my go card:

15-Aug-11 08:07:06 AM Touch off Eagle St app Eagle Lne (r) (St 151)
15-Aug-11 07:32:39 AM Touch on transfer Carindale Shopping Centre - Platform F   
15-Aug-11 07:25:12 AM Touch off Carindale Shopping Centre - Platform C
15-Aug-11 07:14:12 AM Touch on Eversholt St - 56/52

All in all, I think the 216 is faster from Belmont Rd if Wynnum Rd isn't too congested.

Anyway, will report back on the 213 once its up and running.

[Bulimba30A]

Sorry for the multiple posts, but noticed a few inconsistencies with the advertisement on the Translink website advertising 213...

New local service for Cannon Hill and Belmont

From Monday 29 August, new route 213 will give Cannon Hill and Belmont residents a fast and frequent peak hour service to Carindale, with quick connections to the city on route 200 and route P222.

Why not mention the 201 which is a rocket from Carindale to City?

A local service, route 213 will run from Cannon Hill Shopping Centre to the Carindale bus interchange every 10 minutes between 6am-9am and 4pm-7pm, Monday to Friday.

No, they are every 15 minutes.  Also, there is not much difference in times in the PM between 213 and 215.  Surely those 215s are not full??

The service will recognise the same stops at current route 215 along Wynnum, Belmont and Meadowlands Road, and Baynes, Cadogan and Bedivere Streets to Carindale.

This is misleading, while they would serve the same 215 stops along those roads, the 213 does not do the Tingalpa loop and travels down Baynes St (which the 215 does not).

[somebody]

I'd say that with the busway opening, Old Cleveland Rd could now be quicker for the 201. 

Even if this is true, I think pigs will fly before it goes that way.

Anyway, will report back on the 213 once its up and running.

Does the 216 not meet your needs?

[Bulimba30A]

I'd say that with the busway opening, Old Cleveland Rd could now be quicker for the 201. 

Even if this is true, I think pigs will fly before it goes that way.

Sadly I agree

Anyway, will report back on the 213 once its up and running.

Does the 216 not meet your needs?

As a route, the 216 is fine (I only wish the 215 went down Wynnum Rd as well).  However, the 216s do not run early enough in the AM peak or late enough in the PM peak and I refuse to catch the 215 unless I absolutely have to (eg weekends).  I usually get the 6.30ish 227 from Tingalpa or drive to the Citycat at Hawthorne.

[WTN]

Have they finished the Beata St pedestrian entrance that comes off Old Cleveland Rd yet? I don't know why they insisted on putting in the boardwalk stuff when some trees would have been fine.

Beata St has been "nearly complete" for the last week or so. It's difficult to see progress as shade cloth blocks the entrance. All the lamps and signs are lit up. Though Beata St was closed for a very long time for construction and raising of the street level.

I'm planning to look at Langlands Park later this week.

I also noticed that the intersection of the O'Keefe St portal, Eastern and South-Eastern busways now have traffic lights. They've been switched on since Sunday or before that. Previously, the O'Keefe St intersection was not signalised. I guess they're needed because of extra buses passing though. Will we see busjams? Wait and see!

[O_128]

Ive been thinking, why not move the 180 to the eastern busway or have cav road route via it.

[somebody]

Ive been thinking, why not move the 180 to the eastern busway or have cav road route via it.

Hmm.  Would that be faster than via Chatsworth Rd? (I know that's not the current route).

[longboi]

Some crappy mobile pics of Langlands Park:


Signage


Inbound platform


Looking across to outbound platform


Main Ave entry/exit


Looking across Eastern end of busway station


Looking towards station from Old Cleveland Road footpath


Signage


Old Cleveland Rd entry/exit


Main Ave entry/exit

[Golliwog]

I'm planning to look at Langlands Park later this week.

I also noticed that the intersection of the O'Keefe St portal, Eastern and South-Eastern busways now have traffic lights. They've been switched on since Sunday or before that. Previously, the O'Keefe St intersection was not signalised. I guess they're needed because of extra buses passing though. Will we see busjams? Wait and see!

I like both busway station, but Langlands is probably my favorite of the two.

I remember seeing the signal phasing for that set of lights, it was a bit awkward but it shouldn't be too bad. I've never been around Buranda in peak so never seen what the traffic is like down there.

[Bulimba30A]

Another good thing about Langlands is the bus priority lane at the Old Cleveland Rd entry... Unlike the Gabba.

[O_128]

Another good thing about Langlands is the bus priority lane at the Old Cleveland Rd entry... Unlike the Gabba.

Gabba needs this rectified ASAP, at the moment only 2 buses get through per cycle.

Also Isn't it interesting that when we build a Busway station it really is a world class station yet when we build rail they are POS, Im hoping that MBRL will just have busway stations but higher for trains.

[dwb]

I had a look around from the outside at the two new stations on Monday. Downstairs on the concourse at Stones Corner is a LCD arrival screen, it was working, or being tested with timetables.

My overall feeling from both stations however (like PAH) is that they are oversize. Surely there has to be a point where making it bigger doesn't make it more efficient as things slow down when people have to walk too far!

[O_128]

I had a look around from the outside at the two new stations on Monday. Downstairs on the concourse at Stones Corner is a LCD arrival screen, it was working, or being tested with timetables.

My overall feeling from both stations however (like PAH) is that they are oversize. Surely there has to be a point where making it bigger doesn't make it more efficient as things slow down when people have to walk too far!

Light rail? They most likely don't want another mater hill.

[Golliwog]

I had a look around from the outside at the two new stations on Monday. Downstairs on the concourse at Stones Corner is a LCD arrival screen, it was working, or being tested with timetables.

My overall feeling from both stations however (like PAH) is that they are oversize. Surely there has to be a point where making it bigger doesn't make it more efficient as things slow down when people have to walk too far!

Light rail? They most likely don't want another mater hill.

It was designed to be converted to light rail. Not sure if all of it was built to that or not though.

[david]

My overall feeling from both stations however (like PAH) is that they are oversize. Surely there has to be a point where making it bigger doesn't make it more efficient as things slow down when people have to walk too far!

I think the size of the stations is more about making a statement. It can encourage public transport use because it's much easier to find from a distance, than say Mater Hill, which only pops out at you once you are right at its doorstep. Plus, it's better to over-cater rather than under-cater, otherwise you end up with capacity issues. Personally, I like spacious stations, rather than cramped ones.

[Golliwog]

But end with the space, it is often wasted. Boggo Rd is a good example. As virtually everyone is going to UQ, they hardly ever spread along the platform, rather you end up with a line/mob at the bottom of the stairs, which can end up stretching around the lifts if buses don't turn up when they should.

[SurfRail]

I would rather over-engineering than end up with several different versions of Mater Hill again which would prove impossible to fix without enormous spending on works.  You can see how they were thinking about this when you look at stations like RCH Herston!

[somebody]

I would rather over-engineering than end up with several different versions of Mater Hill again which would prove impossible to fix without enormous spending on works.  You can see how they were thinking about this when you look at stations like RCH Herston!

That's certainly their thinking, but I think it's a bit of a knee jerk reaction.  The passenger experience at Boggo Rd is certainly reduced in quality because the platform is so **** long.  And I can't imagine that a 3 bus length station (South Bank & MH) would ever be too small.

Interestingly, I would say that Normanby is quite a bit shorter, and it has more buses through it than RCH.

[dwb]

That's certainly their thinking, but I think it's a bit of a knee jerk reaction.  The passenger experience at Boggo Rd is certainly reduced in quality because the platform is so **** long.  And I can't imagine that a 3 bus length station (South Bank & MH) would ever be too small.

Interestingly, I would say that Normanby is quite a bit shorter, and it has more buses through it than RCH.

Indeed, is it not obvious that different stations on different parts of the network will have different passenger demands?! And that is my point, Langlands Park will NEVER be Mater Hill, it won't have the number of routes, it won't have the hospital, it isn't inner city, I could go on.

[Golliwog]

But if the area ever gets redeveloped then they will be well served by these stations.

I would much prefer to spend a bit mroe time and money now 'future proofing' than have issues years down the track when it isn't coping.

[somebody]

But if the area ever gets redeveloped then they will be well served by these stations.

I would much prefer to spend a bit mroe time and money now 'future proofing' than have issues years down the track when it isn't coping.

But with Boggo Rd & PAH no conceivable future would see a 3 bus length platform being too short.  Even if UQ allowed buses to run through to Indooroopilly it wouldn't be a problem.  I'd think that an even a shorter 2 bus length platform would be sufficient even in that eventuality.  The passenger experience is degraded here by the platform being too long (minor bitch, I know).

[O_128]

But if the area ever gets redeveloped then they will be well served by these stations.

I would much prefer to spend a bit mroe time and money now 'future proofing' than have issues years down the track when it isn't coping.

Chances are it cost the same amount to have a much larger station than a little one so why not take the big one

[dwb]

But if the area ever gets redeveloped then they will be well served by these stations.

I would much prefer to spend a bit mroe time and money now 'future proofing' than have issues years down the track when it isn't coping.

Chances are it cost the same amount to have a much larger station than a little one so why not take the big one

It is:

• ugly
• inhumane
• not as nice to be in
• takes up more land (which costs money)
• limits surrounding development opportunity (which costs money and good integration)
• is overkill
• is less efficent (more walking for passengers = longer dwell for buses)
• looks like a waste of money....

Need I go on?

[O_128]

But if the area ever gets redeveloped then they will be well served by these stations.

I would much prefer to spend a bit mroe time and money now 'future proofing' than have issues years down the track when it isn't coping.

Chances are it cost the same amount to have a much larger station than a little one so why not take the big one

It is:

• ugly
• inhumane
• not as nice to be in
• takes up more land (which costs money)
• limits surrounding development opportunity (which costs money and good integration)
• is overkill
• is less efficent (more walking for passengers = longer dwell for buses)
• looks like a waste of money....

Need I go on?

State gov is constantly criticised over stations so you can see why they are going all out at them. My biggest annoyance is that T3 lanes arent being introduced on old cleveland road.

[dwb]

My biggest annoyance is that T3 lanes arent being introduced on old cleveland road.

What do T3 lanes have to do with the price of eggs and where do you expect them to install them?

[O_128]

My biggest annoyance is that T3 lanes arent being introduced on old cleveland road.

What do T3 lanes have to do with the price of eggs and where do you expect them to install them?

meant to be separate but it makes no sense that people have to wait 20+ years for a quick trip to carindale. T3 lanes might even avoid the need for more expensive busway.

[ozbob]

Eastern Busway will be having an open day on the 27th, believe from 10am to 2pm, there is an official opening around 9.30am.

[AnonymouslyBad]

Chances are it cost the same amount to have a much larger station than a little one so why not take the big one

These new stations don't appear to be terribly cheap. How much did the RBWH station cost?

I'm all for future-proofing, but they really are trying to outdo themselves with busway stations. Each busway opening presents a station more gargantuan ("world class") than the last. I've not seen the new stations yet (they might not have had as much space to work with) but that certainly seems to be the trend of late!

[Golliwog]

Pretty sure the size is mostly dictated by keeping the option open for LRT in the future. While not an easy task to do, if all that is required it to put in tracks signalling and overhead power, its more likely than if they have to come back to every station and make it big enough.

For the record, Boggo Rd in the morning peak has had at least 3 buses pull in at once. Not a frequent occurance I will admit, but not impossible.

[SurfRail]

For the record, Boggo Rd in the morning peak has had at least 3 buses pull in at once. Not a frequent occurance I will admit, but not impossible.

I see this quite often.

[Bulimba30A]

If they were really serious about the eastern busway corridor, they should extend the 222 as a buz to Capalaba now! I fear this is going to be Springfield mk II but worse as god knows if and when it will ever be built.

When will they realise that they don't need a busway to provide frequent and direct bus services? Particularly where congestion is not an overriding problem?