Bus Routes which need fixing

[#Metro]

I thought the main problem with the 333 is that it is packed?  Couldn't this be solved at a minimal expense by putting buses into service which are now running empty in the counter peak direction.

Hmm. This is a good idea. If you have empty counter peak direction buses, these could act as sweeper services once they got near or onto the busway. The buses could run as "Not in service" up to some point and then turn into 333's or some other appropriate bus number.

The cost to do this would be minimal, if not zero, because they would probably run this route anyway.

[somebody]

I was thinking more like the returning 332 could run as a 333, but starting from Roma St in the AM peak (accessing via the Roma St portal).  This is to keep congestion in the Cultural Centre no worse than at present, and to leave space in the KGSBS for other routes.  That is assuming that you don't want/need to decrease 332/370 service to increase 333 service.

Same for the 331 and 341.

[stephenk]

I thought the main problem with the 333 is that it is packed?  Couldn't this be solved at a minimal expense by putting buses into service which are now running empty in the counter peak direction.

That is a good idea. Plenty of empty out of service buses pass through RBWH and RCH as the crowds build!

I can't believe that the 444 was named as the worst bus route given the reports about the 333!  I've never been denied boarding a 444, (but I don't work in the city), but I hear you can wait up to 50 mins for a 333.  Perhaps the reports are exaggerated.

I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think one of the problems with the 444 is with it getting stuck in traffic with resulting slow journey times and unreliability. This affects users at most stops.

However only users at a few stops are affected by the 333 issues.

[ozbob]

A colleague has reported  this "Route 66 was showing up on the digital schedule at the RBH on Monday afternoon"  this might well be an encouraging sign of some changes on the way??

[stephenk]

A colleague has reported  this "Route 66 was showing up on the digital schedule at the RBH on Monday afternoon"  this might well be an encouraging sign of some changes on the way??

Lets hope so.

Even if was introduced next week, the busway already has a bad name amongst RBWH commuters. It will take time to restore these commuters confidence in Translink. 

[stephenk]

Caught the 333 from RBWH to City again today. Bus filled to capacity at RBWH. Bus non-stopped RCH Herston (at 4:10pm) which had approx 20 passengers waiting. Driver did not appear to report full bus to control.

[#Metro]

I think buses should also report when they are empty or have less than 7 passengers (or this could be done by computer using goCard data automatically).

I saw a bendy bus route 66 transport air to W'gabba. There were probably only two or three people on it.
A 109 followed (standard bus) and it was absolutely packed full with people standing.

It has been 2 months since 109+66 was floated. Merging 109 + 66 will save them money and free up buses.
Why the wait? Is it stuck because that is locked in by the contract or something?

[somebody]

Well, what's bus control going to do about full buses?  (Or empty buses?)

One thing I want to say though, Why is it that users need to suggest these things which are pretty obvious really.  Translink + BCC should be able to come up with these ideas on their own AND PUT THEM INTO PRACTICE!!  Why are they so reluctant to change anything, or allow common sense to prevail.

[dwb]

Rather than using Go card ticketing data, they should just install capacity sensors on the buses tied in to GPS and put this on the realtime displays for passengers, and record the data for planning. Needs to be separate from Go card so it can get implemented quicker.

It seems to me they could work out how many people are on the bus by a number of methods, infra red cameras/sensors, proximity sensors, deriving bus weight off axle (minus chassis divided avg weight per passenger)....

or in the very short term they should just ask drivers to highlight on a map where each route is most popular - they'd know it!

[stephenk]

Well, what's bus control going to do about full buses? 

Well, how else is Translink going to know when their buses are full? (Apart from complaints)

[dwb]

Knowing when and where which routes are in demand and which aren't could lead to improved service delivery through tailoring services. For instance the 374 is often empty and the 385 overcrowded. A minor change to the 374 route would improve both routes utilising the same resources. Only problem is you have to understand the patterns and planners who don't use the system day in day out don't understand how passengers actually use the system and the data is not there to give them a good understanding. The result is that the 374 continaually runs empty and losing money even in peak while the 385 leaves passengers with a nasty feeling toward Translink.

[somebody]

Well, what's bus control going to do about full buses? 

Well, how else is Translink going to know when their buses are full? (Apart from complaints)

Ticketting data.  Perhaps that's not as accurate, with the low penetration of the Go Card.  So the reason to report a full bus is more for planning statistics than to get an operational response.  Ok, sounds reasonable.

Knowing when and where which routes are in demand and which aren't could lead to improved service delivery through tailoring services. For instance the 374 is often empty and the 385 overcrowded. A minor change to the 374 route would improve both routes utilising the same resources. Only problem is you have to understand the patterns and planners who don't use the system day in day out don't understand how passengers actually use the system and the data is not there to give them a good understanding. The result is that the 374 continaually runs empty and losing money even in peak while the 385 leaves passengers with a nasty feeling toward Translink.

The major problem is that all these routes stop in different places in the city.  Or have I already said that?  Is that the minor change you are refering to?

[dwb]

yes. one of the small changes i was arguing for was that the 374 should be tied with the 385 rather than 375 (in terms of routes & stopping pattern). If that were the case you'd be getting better bang (service provision) for your buck. I made the suggestion and was told that the "data" that council/tta held showed didn't support my case. the problem is with the way they collect their data, not with my suggestion bc every day the 374 runs practically empty and the 385 overcrowded. i was on the 385 the other day and people couldn't board the bus but the driver didn't report "as full" as they hadn't actually tried to push their way on... the reason being that they well know that they can't fit on, it happens every 2nd time they try to get the bus. but the bus is still well and trully full, even if not reported as such!! it is going to be such a long time until go card data gets there and i think they need innovative alternatives to implement now.... and who knows it might be as low tech as just asking the drivers who drive these routes every day, or god forbid the passengers who catch them.

[somebody]

yes. one of the small changes i was arguing for was that the 374 should be tied with the 385 rather than 375 (in terms of routes & stopping pattern). If that were the case you'd be getting better bang (service provision) for your buck. I made the suggestion and was told that the "data" that council/tta held showed didn't support my case. the problem is with the way they collect their data, not with my suggestion bc every day the 374 runs practically empty and the 385 overcrowded. i was on the 385 the other day and people couldn't board the bus but the driver didn't report "as full" as they hadn't actually tried to push their way on... the reason being that they well know that they can't fit on, it happens every 2nd time they try to get the bus. but the bus is still well and trully full, even if not reported as such!! it is going to be such a long time until go card data gets there and i think they need innovative alternatives to implement now.... and who knows it might be as low tech as just asking the drivers who drive these routes every day, or god forbid the passengers who catch them.

So then you would expect that there's only a problem outbound in the PM peak.  Is the AM peak OK?

Did they really say that?  They're basically saying that the data doesn't support common sense.  I'd like to know what data that is.

[#Metro]

So they basically told you BUZ off as well.
If the bus is empty during peak hour, that is a completely wasted opportunity.

Photos of the offending bus are more solid. 
If can just imagine a side-by-side photograph of 385 bursing full of people, and then at the same time route 374/5 or whatever it is shamefully empty on the front of MX newspaper.

Waste is a sin!

[dwb]

yes i'd considered this but people look at you funny when you jump on a bus and take a photo of them... esp if it flashes!

[stephenk]

Used the Northern Busway from RBWH to Roma Street for the first time for a few weeks on Friday. Still no improvement. Despite a theoretical average waiting time of 5 mins, it was 20 mins before bus (333) turned up, which of course was full. Thankfully a few minutes later both 330 and 340 turned up together which managed to (just) clear the crowds waiting at RBWH and RCH busway stations.

[#Metro]

Does anyone know if there are sweeper services or a bus depot connected to the Nth busway?

[somebody]

Used the Northern Busway from RBWH to Roma Street for the first time for a few weeks on Friday. Still no improvement. Despite a theoretical average waiting time of 5 mins, it was 20 mins before bus (333) turned up, which of course was full. Thankfully a few minutes later both 330 and 340 turned up together which managed to (just) clear the crowds waiting at RBWH and RCH busway stations.

Ouch!! So it's still a problem on a Sunday!?  IIRC the 66 doesn't run on Sundays, so you could wait a long time at QUT KG then.

[stephenk]

Used the Northern Busway from RBWH to Roma Street for the first time for a few weeks on Friday. Still no improvement. Despite a theoretical average waiting time of 5 mins, it was 20 mins before bus (333) turned up, which of course was full. Thankfully a few minutes later both 330 and 340 turned up together which managed to (just) clear the crowds waiting at RBWH and RCH busway stations.

Ouch!! So it's still a problem on a Sunday!?  IIRC the 66 doesn't run on Sundays, so you could wait a long time at QUT KG then.

On Sundays the 333, 330, and 340 seem to run on time, and whilst the 333 is well loaded it is not full. Thus the average waiting time of 7.5mins seems to be accurate to reality.

[islander]

Does anyone know if the 640 Bribie Island to Caboolture Station am times are being altered? I noticed there was a survey on the Translink web site asking for people to choose alternate departure times from Bribie Island.

[stephenk]

Used the Northern Busway again this afternoon from RBWH to Roma Street. Same as usual. First 333 on PID vanishes into a figment of Translink's imagination. A 330 turns up, almost fills up at RBWH. Only manages to let on 4 passengers at RCH Herston, leaving approx 20 passengers behind. 

[MaxHeadway]

The Great Circle Line (598/599) needs massive improvements. It could be more direct. For instance, why have the 598 being held up by a red arrow for 1.5 minutes nearly every time, just to divert from Creek Rd to serve Donnington stop? And the service levels are abysmal - a decent amount of service might be quarterly-hourly on weekdays, and a bare minimum of half-hourly in the evening and on weekends.

[somebody]

The Great Circle Line (598/599) needs massive improvements. It could be more direct. For instance, why have the 598 being held up by a red arrow for 1.5 minutes nearly every time, just to divert from Creek Rd to serve Donnington stop? And the service levels are abysmal - a decent amount of service might be quarterly-hourly on weekdays, and a bare minimum of half-hourly in the evening and on weekends.

And the zig-zagging NW of Toowong Cemetery when it could just run up/down Frederick St.  Perhaps it's mostly to service the Botanic Gardens.

[stephenk]

I've used the Northern Busway 3 more times in the last few weeks from RCH Herston into the City.
On all 3 occasions a bus filled to capacity at RCH Herston leaving up to 25 passengers behind.
On 1 occasion a bus (333) did not stop at RCH Herston as it was already full.

[Jon Bryant]

What is the solution. More 333 services in their own dedicated bus lane?  Extend the 66?  Or is a more drastic measures needed? Like Light rail?

[somebody]

Personally, I think that just running the returning 331/332/341 on the busway between RB&WH & Roma St would probably be enough.  And very cheap to implement.  Save money by reducing 66 service and extending the 111 to pay for it. <ducks for cover>

[stephenk]

What is the solution. More 333 services in their own dedicated bus lane?  Extend the 66?  Or is a more drastic measures needed? Like Light rail?

The 333 gets stuck in traffic which makes it unreliable. Thus it would be better to extend a busway only service such as the 66. Making use of the empty reverse peak services would also help.

Used the Northern Busway again today from RBWH to Roma St at 4pm. 333 filled to capacity at RBWH, approx. 50 people were waiting for it. Bus did not stop at RCH Herston as it was full, leaving approx. 20 passengers waiting at RCH.

The busway to RBWH has now been open for 4 months, and Translink still have not acted to improve the chronic overcrowding. Are Translink going to improve the service before increasing fares next month?

[stephenk]

Used the Northern Busway again on Friday. After a reasonable wait, both a 333 and 330 arrived at RBWH together, both with a few seats available plus standing capacity. Both buses departed RBWH with only limited standing capacity left. Both buses filled to capacity at RCH Herston, with around 10 passengers being left behind.

[STB]

I have an inkling that the 598 and 599 will eventually be broken up into several routes.

[somebody]

I have an inkling that the 598 and 599 will eventually be broken up into several routes.

Is this guesswork, or are you saying that something is in the works to achieve this?

[stephenk]

Another journey on the Northern Busway from RCH Herston to Roma St today at 4:30pm.

14 min wait for 1st bus, a 333, which was full and did not stop. 2nd bus, a 330 arrived 3 mins later. During this wait, 7 empty out of service buses ran through RCH Herston towards the city!

[Sir Loin]

Hi all,

I felt compelled to join this morning as I work at the RBWH and saw the previous comments about the 330,333 and 340.

I am pretty much in agreement with the comments made by Stephen.

I started working here a few months back, I travel from Morningside on the train and initially switched to the bus at Roma Street (at peak morning time). After a few weeks of watching the 330, 333 and 340 drive past me without stopping at Roma or jamming myself onto a already full bus, I realised I could get off the train at Sth Brisbane and get on the 333 at the cultural centre. I always get a seat in the morning now even if it means standing in the blistering sun at the cultural centre with no shade. Sadly this doesn't help those who are still standing and trying to push onto a already crowded bus at Roma St. When I was previously attempting to get on the bus at Roma, I felt rude as I was having to push past woman and old people in order to get on a bus otherwise I would have been standing there all day.

The thing that annoys me is that the 66 service has been half empty since I started here ( I appreciate its is holiday for most students), yet people still catch the 330,333 and 340 to get to Kelvin Grove. To top it off the 66 is a large 'bendy bus'. Meanwhile the people trying to get to the RBWH (or further) are still packed in like sardines (if they are 'lucky' enough to get on).

The worst part of my daily commute is catching the bus back into Roma St from RBWH after 4pm. It's a nightmare, there must be easily over 40 people waiting there at anyone time. That number grows as the buses are delayed, then it is a mad rush and a case of every man for himself!

It would certainly help if the 66 was extended to the RBWH although I'm not sure where it could turn around (I'm not familiar as to what is north of the RBWH stop).

I've email translink numerous times and will continue to do so  , but all I get is the standard generic reply.

At the end of the day there are numerous construction projects going on at RBWH in conjuction with QLD health, UQ and other research/health orgainsations and the number of those requiring the public transport to the RBWH is only going to grow. My building alone will double its occupants to 500 over the next 2 years.

To top it off, we got the wee price hike this week, with more promised in the future for this delightful service.

Thankyou for your time, end of rant. 

Sir Loin.

[Jon Bryant]

It is clear Translink are still planning our transport around Brisbane CBD trips when it is clear that the trip demand is criss-cross and around the whole SEQ region.

[#Metro]

Sigh. 109 + 66, when will it click?
I often see 66 travel to W'gabba full of air not passengers.
I know its all "strategic" in the plan, and it has a purpose, but look on the ground at the results: it would be better used going to UQ and leaving passengers who want W/Gabba to catch an altered 475 or BUZ 200.

There appears to be a nice turn-around facility at the end of RBWH busway station. So 66 extension should be possible.
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.444611,153.029366&z=19&t=k&nmd=20091102

[stephenk]

Hi all,

I felt compelled to join this morning as I work at the RBWH and saw the previous comments about the 330,333 and 340.

I am pretty much in agreement with the comments made by Stephen.

I started working here a few months back, I travel from Morningside on the train and initially switched to the bus at Roma Street (at peak morning time). After a few weeks of watching the 330, 333 and 340 drive past me without stopping at Roma or jamming myself onto a already full bus, I realised I could get off the train at Sth Brisbane and get on the 333 at the cultural centre. I always get a seat in the morning now even if it means standing in the blistering sun at the cultural centre with no shade. Sadly this doesn't help those who are still standing and trying to push onto a already crowded bus at Roma St. When I was previously attempting to get on the bus at Roma, I felt rude as I was having to push past woman and old people in order to get on a bus otherwise I would have been standing there all day.

The thing that annoys me is that the 66 service has been half empty since I started here ( I appreciate its is holiday for most students), yet people still catch the 330,333 and 340 to get to Kelvin Grove. To top it off the 66 is a large 'bendy bus'. Meanwhile the people trying to get to the RBWH (or further) are still packed in like sardines (if they are 'lucky' enough to get on).

The worst part of my daily commute is catching the bus back into Roma St from RBWH after 4pm. It's a nightmare, there must be easily over 40 people waiting there at anyone time. That number grows as the buses are delayed, then it is a mad rush and a case of every man for himself!

It would certainly help if the 66 was extended to the RBWH although I'm not sure where it could turn around (I'm not familiar as to what is north of the RBWH stop).

I've email translink numerous times and will continue to do so  , but all I get is the standard generic reply.

At the end of the day there are numerous construction projects going on at RBWH in conjuction with QLD health, UQ and other research/health orgainsations and the number of those requiring the public transport to the RBWH is only going to grow. My building alone will double its occupants to 500 over the next 2 years.

To top it off, we got the wee price hike this week, with more promised in the future for this delightful service.

Thankyou for your time, end of rant. 

Sir Loin.

Good to see another long suffering RBWH/RCH commuter on this forum.

This was the reply from my most recent complaint about the chronic full bus issue at RCH Herston:
"It would be fair to say that we have received much feed back in relation to this route. Your feedback is very important to TransLink and although a further response may not be possible, you can be assured that the factors affecting the route 66 are being considered in assessing a suitable solution as part of the next growth and expansion phase of the busway services plan."

So can Translink say when the next "growth and expansion phase of the busway services plan" is going to be?

[Sir Loin]

My 333 bus that passed through Roma St this morning (around 7.40) was packed to the doors.
The 66 large 'bendy' bus passed by with approx 7 people onboard.

Genius

[somebody]

The thing that annoys me is that the 66 service has been half empty since I started here ( I appreciate its is holiday for most students), yet people still catch the 330,333 and 340 to get to Kelvin Grove. To top it off the 66 is a large 'bendy bus'. Meanwhile the people trying to get to the RBWH (or further) are still packed in like sardines (if they are 'lucky' enough to get on).

The worst part of my daily commute is catching the bus back into Roma St from RBWH after 4pm. It's a nightmare, there must be easily over 40 people waiting there at anyone time. That number grows as the buses are delayed, then it is a mad rush and a case of every man for himself!

It would certainly help if the 66 was extended to the RBWH although I'm not sure where it could turn around (I'm not familiar as to what is north of the RBWH stop).

I'm not sure why it should annoy you that QUT KG pax get on the 330/333/340.  If that's what's happenning, there is nothing to stop you from catching the 66 to QUT KG, then another bus to RCH or RBWH.  I can understand it annoying that Translink run around empty buses while refusing to solve the problem.  Fire the CEO, I say!

As others have said the 66 can turn around in a round about at the end of the busway.  I would presume that a bendy bus could still manage this manouver.

So can Translink say when the next "growth and expansion phase of the busway services plan" is going to be?

I'd expect when the Busway extends from Windsor to Kedron.  That time frame is unnacceptable.

Really, on a zero cost basis they could trade some 66 frequency for a counter peak 67? route between RB&WH and Roma St utilising the returning 331/332/341s.

I understand that PT got on the news yesterday, did this issue (and Translink's flat out refusal to solve it) rate a mention?

[#Metro]

So can Translink say when the next "growth and expansion phase of the busway services plan" is going to be?

Call me cynical, but the next "growth and expansion phase of the busway services plan" is likely to be in the media relations department to handle all the complaints they are getting!

[stephenk]

I'm not sure why it should annoy you that QUT KG pax get on the 330/333/340.  If that's what's happenning, there is nothing to stop you from catching the 66 to QUT KG, then another bus to RCH or RBWH. 

The problem is that if a 330/333/340 comes before a 66, QUT students fill up the 330/333/340 leaving no room for some passengers who need to use the 330/333/340 to get to RCH/RBWH. Thus even if the person trying to get to RCH/RBWH boarded the next 66, and then changed at QUT, they will have a longer journey time as well as the inconvenience of having to change. This situation is not acceptable, and has made some RCH and RBWH workers go back to driving.


Translink should hang their heads in shame about not fixing the chronic overcrowding on the Northern Busway to/from RCH/RBWH.