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Bus Routes which need fixing

Started by #Metro, July 30, 2009, 10:11:55 AM

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The worst bus route in brisbane

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somebody

Quote from: stephenk on January 05, 2010, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: somebody on January 05, 2010, 11:13:26 AM
I'm not sure why it should annoy you that QUT KG pax get on the 330/333/340.  If that's what's happenning, there is nothing to stop you from catching the 66 to QUT KG, then another bus to RCH or RBWH. 

The problem is that if a 330/333/340 comes before a 66, QUT students fill up the 330/333/340 leaving no room for some passengers who need to use the 330/333/340 to get to RCH/RBWH. Thus even if the person trying to get to RCH/RBWH boarded the next 66, and then changed at QUT, they will have a longer journey time as well as the inconvenience of having to change. This situation is not acceptable, and has made some RCH and RBWH workers go back to driving.


Translink should hang their heads in shame about not fixing the chronic overcrowding on the Northern Busway to/from RCH/RBWH.  
Indeed, but why blame your fellow commuters who are only getting on the next bus to their destination?

Has this been going on since the Busway openned from Roma St/Countess St to RCH Herston in 2004, or did it get much worse at some point?

stephenk

Quote from: somebody on January 05, 2010, 11:46:50 AM
Quote from: stephenk on January 05, 2010, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: somebody on January 05, 2010, 11:13:26 AM
I'm not sure why it should annoy you that QUT KG pax get on the 330/333/340.  If that's what's happenning, there is nothing to stop you from catching the 66 to QUT KG, then another bus to RCH or RBWH. 

The problem is that if a 330/333/340 comes before a 66, QUT students fill up the 330/333/340 leaving no room for some passengers who need to use the 330/333/340 to get to RCH/RBWH. Thus even if the person trying to get to RCH/RBWH boarded the next 66, and then changed at QUT, they will have a longer journey time as well as the inconvenience of having to change. This situation is not acceptable, and has made some RCH and RBWH workers go back to driving.


Translink should hang their heads in shame about not fixing the chronic overcrowding on the Northern Busway to/from RCH/RBWH.  
Indeed, but why blame your fellow commuters who are only getting on the next bus to their destination?

Has this been going on since the Busway openned from Roma St/Countess St to RCH Herston in 2004, or did it get much worse at some point?

I don't think people blame the QUT students for filling up the 330/333/340, they blame Translink for creating the situation that causes the 330/333/340 to fill up with QUT students leaving hospital workers behind, whilst a 66 runs half-empty behind it to QUT.

The full bus issue at RCH Herston became a serious problem after the opening of the Inner Northern Busway to King George Sq and the curtailing of the 393 to Normanby (it used to run to Roma Street). Overcrowding has got worse at both RBWH and RCH Herston after the opening of RBWH busway station due to the lack of extra service provision.
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2007 - 7tph
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2010 - 4tph
* departures from Central between 16:30 and 17:30.

somebody

Ahh, so cutting back the 393 in the face of growing patronage was really what broke it.  Seems a little surprising as the 393 only comes every 20 minutes in peak.

That does re-inforce my view that only a small amount of service between Roma St and RB&WH would be enough.

stephenk

#123
Quote from: somebody on January 05, 2010, 15:20:14 PM
Ahh, so cutting back the 393 in the face of growing patronage was really what broke it.  Seems a little surprising as the 393 only comes every 20 minutes in peak.

That does re-inforce my view that only a small amount of service between Roma St and RB&WH would be enough.

Due to increasing patronage since the stunting of the 393, and the destinations of passengers, it could need more than 393 running to Roma Street again to completely solve the problem (although it would certainly improve the situation). Many people travel from RCH/RBWH to Cultural Centre to connect with SouthEast Busway services, so any increased service on the Northern Busway should run to Cultural Centre - which is why extending the 66 to RBWH would be the best solution. As far as I am aware (and I might be wrong), the 393 used to run every 15mins when it ran to Roma Street, it was reduced to every 20mins when it was stunted to Normanby.

It should be noted that the stunting of the 393 reduced the service from RCH Herston to Roma Street by between 33-50% !
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2007 - 7tph
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2010 - 4tph
* departures from Central between 16:30 and 17:30.

beauyboy

The 393 is still every 15 during offpeak, just during peak because of traffic conditions it only runs every 20mins.

That said the 393 is almost a completely empty Bus when it arrives at the RBH when it travels either way. While I have no doubt that extending the 393 to Roma St at the moment would not completely solve the problem it would go a long way. At least it would clear 50 people in one hit whenever it arrives at Roma or RBWH.

I complained to Tranlink within the First week of them cutting the 393 back (in 2008) but it feel on ignorant ears. ::)

Donald
www.space4cyclingbne.com
www.cbdbug.org.au

#Metro

#125
Someone has to say it: Routes 393 and 66 are flops which now transport more air than passengers and burns up cash which could be used on relieving congestion elsewhere on the busway network.

They were supposed to be centrepieces in the inner city transport plan, but they don't work!
66 is a trunk route bus that promised a "one seat journey from one side of the city to the other".
Good in theory, but in practice it takes a whole bendy bus and runs virtually empty from the City to Wooloongabba.
It already duplicates the route of BUZ 200.

And 393 which was to take people on the Western side of the city to New Farm and Bowen Hills.
Despite the fact that people can easily transfer into the City and catch the once-every-5-minutes BUZ 199.

Suggestions
393 to be cut back to QUT Kelvin Grove, the route altered (if possible) to go via Fortitude Valley & Fortitude Valley Station
then Tenneriffe Ferry.

66 to be radically altered and merged with 109. Then extend the service to RBWH and use the turnaround/roundabout there.
Alter route 475 (see "bus routes reviewed") to travel via Woolloongabba and Buranda Station to compensate.

References
1. http://download.translink.com.au/timetables/090803_393.pdf Route 393
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

somebody

So there's few takers of the option to use the 393 to Normanby, and then pick up a 325/345/359/390/330/333/340/66 to Roma St.

Quote from: stephenk on January 05, 2010, 17:22:45 PM
Due to increasing patronage since the stunting of the 393, and the destinations of passengers, it could need more than 393 running to Roma Street again to completely solve the problem (although it would certainly improve the situation). Many people travel from RCH/RBWH to Cultural Centre to connect with SouthEast Busway services, so any increased service on the Northern Busway should run to Cultural Centre - which is why extending the 66 to RBWH would be the best solution. As far as I am aware (and I might be wrong), the 393 used to run every 15mins when it ran to Roma Street, it was reduced to every 20mins when it was stunted to Normanby.

It should be noted that the stunting of the 393 reduced the service from RCH Herston to Roma Street by between 33-50% !
Not sure how you get the 50% figure.  Even off peak 4 333s, 2 330s, 2 340s and 4 393s per hour would mean the 393 is 33% of the service.  That percentage is lower in peak.

I don't know about your requirement that they all need to extend to the Cultural Centre, there would be a substantial portion who are changing for a train (and certain bus routes, like the 444, 385, 350) and Roma St is perfectly good enough.  It also precludes the possibility that they can go on to form an outbound rocket service in the PM peak.

stephenk

Quote from: somebody on January 06, 2010, 09:01:53 AM
I don't know about your requirement that they all need to extend to the Cultural Centre, there would be a substantial portion who are changing for a train (and certain bus routes, like the 444, 385, 350) and Roma St is perfectly good enough.  It also precludes the possibility that they can go on to form an outbound rocket service in the PM peak.
There is a requirement for services to run to Cultural Centre. For example a 330/333/340 comes in to RCH, fills up or is already full and does not stop, leaves behind passengers who want to travel to Cultural Centre to change to SE Busway services. So these passengers will then have to wait for either the next 330/333/340 (which may also pass through full or fill up before they can get onboard), or take a 393 re-extended to Roma Street and change which is inconvenient. Thus the problem isn't completely solved. 

If a decent bus service was provided to RCH/RBWH which solved the full bus issue, then I could see patronage increasing significantly as a result. Thus small fixes may become a victim of their own success. The capacity increase need to be pretty significant to completely solve the full bus issue.

Going by your comments Somebody, I still don't think you understand quite how bad this situation can be. Maybe you should get a job at Translink? As I've mentioned before I know of multiple occasions where passengers have had to wait 50mins to board a bus at RCH Herston! I've personally had to wait to up to 35mins. 100% of journeys I took on the busway in November to mid-December resulted in a full bus leaving behind passengers at RCH Herston.

By the way this is the response to my latest complaint:-
"On behalf of TransLink, I wish to thank you for providing us with your feedback and advise you that your comments have been formally registered and forwarded to our Network Planning Group for their consideration.

TransLink has developed the TransLink Network Plan (TNP) to improve public transport across South East Queensland (SEQ). The outcome of the plan is to have a four year rolling program of improvements and the current updated version is available from the TransLink website at http://www.translink.com.au/networkplan.php

TransLink Network Planning Group will consider your comments regarding the route number that you provided in the next review of the TNP."

Which will be when?
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2007 - 7tph
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2010 - 4tph
* departures from Central between 16:30 and 17:30.

somebody

Quote from: stephenk on January 06, 2010, 10:34:36 AM
There is a requirement for services to run to Cultural Centre.
Yes, and a substantial number already do.  But that doesn't mean that ALL of the services need to.  Hate to harp on, but if the returning 331/332/341s were put on this run, that would be a doubling of current capacity.  Even if several people don't board because they would rather wait for a Cultural Centre service, it should soak up enough capacity for there to be space available on the 330/333/340, unless I am incorrect that a service to Roma St would be useful for many of the pax.

And what about congestion at the Cultural Centre station?  That's already pretty bad, and would be worse under a plan which service W'Gabba-RB&WH.  The services leaving QSBS Platform B are already banned from running through the Cultural Centre in the peak direction.

I am a little surprised that so few find the 393 useful.  You could use it to change at Normanby for Kelvin Grove Rd bus services, or at Bowen Hills station for northbound train services.

stephenk

Quote from: somebody on January 06, 2010, 11:29:49 AM
I am a little surprised that so few find the 393 useful.  You could use it to change at Normanby for Kelvin Grove Rd bus services, or at Bowen Hills station for northbound train services.
The problem with taking the 393 and changing at Normanby is it's a risk. If there is a 333 a couple of minutes away (according to the unreliable PIDs), do you wait for a 333 for a faster journey time without the inconvenience of changing, but with a risk it might just pass through full? Or do you take the 393, and change at Normanby but with an unknown waiting time to change buses (and then only for a 330,333,340 to run through Normanby full anyway because it filled up at RCH/RBWH)?

In the other direction, most hospital staff either walk to Bowen Hills (which takes me 12-15mins), or catch the hospital shuttle bus (which although infrequent is very reliable).

Before the 393 was stunted it was usually very busy between RCH Herston, and Roma Street. Now it rarely seems to have more than 10 passengers.
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2007 - 7tph
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2010 - 4tph
* departures from Central between 16:30 and 17:30.

somebody

I was thinking more of changing at Normanby for an outbound Kelvin Grove Rd service in the response you quoted.  There must be some of these pax.  Changing at Normanby isn't very attractive if you are going beyond Roma St for your next change.

Obviously, the 393 was more useful when it extended to Roma St, and they could have kept that system and used the portal to leave the busway and loop around Roma St, Herschel St, North Quay and Turbot St and back into the busway to keep it running post KGSBS openning.  They just didn't want to.

beauyboy

And That is what it come down to. I was hoping with the opening of the RBH station the 393 would be re-extended to Roma as that would of been common sense. ::) The minimal cost it would of been would of easily been recovered with the people that it would then be transporting.
Not to forget giving people that live at Bulimba an excellent connection to both the suburban and long distance trains ::).

If they do not re-extend the 393 this year with the round of timetable changes they have promised, the staff of translink need to be sacked!

Donald
www.space4cyclingbne.com
www.cbdbug.org.au

#Metro

QuoteTransLink has developed the TransLink Network Plan (TNP) to improve public transport across South East Queensland (SEQ). The outcome of the plan is to have a four year rolling program of improvements and the current updated version is available from the TransLink website at http://www.translink.com.au/networkplan.php

Are they trying to imply that their hands are tied until the next 4 or 5 year Network plan comes on board?
There should be at least an annual check and update so that rapid responses can occur to emerging or latent need.
Waiting for 4 years is joke.

And there should be a "reserve" of funds for unforeseen circumstances to put on new bus routes and rail services for a limited window (say 8 weeks max) while all the paperwork and bureaucracy gets sorted out. Act now, wallow in paperwork later.

Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

#Metro

Is 393 well used at all? It could be re-extended to Roma St, but would that really improve things (Why did they decide to chop that bit off? Low patronage?). Why did people not use it enough when it did run to Roma St?
People at Bulimba can catch their local buses to rail stations or 199 (every 5 minutes) to the Valley.

A connection between the Nth Busway, Bowen Hills Station and Tenerriffe ferry sounds good in theory, but whether sufficient people use it and what alternatives one could trade for it should decide whether is is worth running. I think the original routes 393 and 66 are before their time. If TL wants an inner-ring orbital line it should be an unbroken route such as
1a. Tenneriffe-INB-Roma St-Cultural Centre-Sth Busway-W'Gabba-Bulimba

And if they want a true cross city route, they should try:
2. Eight Mile Plains-INB-RBWH (either all stops or express).

Otherwise alter the routes to make them work, and if that doesn't happen, can 393 and use the money to extend 66 to RBWH and merge it with 109 and create a cross town [66+109] BUZ.

Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

beauyboy

#134
There is a really simple reason why the 393 was cut at the Normanby. The Bus holding bays are 500m down the Busway. If they had not cut it there they would have to park in the CBD, maybe Ann or Turbot.
Well I can tell you right now before they cut the 393 it was getting used an B****y site more than it is now. Any Uni Students wanting to get to the Station would pick it up. Basicly anyone at the stations wanting Roma St would grab it.
I firmly believe re-extending the 393 would justify it's existance. As it is atm it is ghost service.

Donald
www.space4cyclingbne.com
www.cbdbug.org.au

somebody

Quote from: stephenk on January 06, 2010, 10:34:36 AM
TransLink has developed the TransLink Network Plan (TNP) to improve public transport across South East Queensland (SEQ). The outcome of the plan is to have a four year rolling program of improvements and the current updated version is available from the TransLink website at http://www.translink.com.au/networkplan.php

TransLink Network Planning Group will consider your comments regarding the route number that you provided in the next review of the TNP."

Which will be when?
The current network plan is a 10 year plan (2004-5 to 2013-4) and a 4 year program (2004-5 to 2007-8)

So the program has expired, with nothing to replace it (was supposed to be a 4 year rolling thing), and the "plan" is more than half way through.

Next review?  Maybe 2020 based on TL's current performance.

Jon Bryant

Add to the list the 627 Sunshine Beach to Tewantain via Noosa Head (and other Noosa routes).  These routes stop operating around 5:30 or so just as the erea start to head out for dinner.  How mad is this in holiday season.  The only late route is the 620 to Marrochy Door and tat requires walking of up to 900 m to get to into the suburbs. 

longboi

Quote from: Jonno on January 09, 2010, 09:02:57 AM
Add to the list the 627 Sunshine Beach to Tewantain via Noosa Head (and other Noosa routes).  These routes stop operating around 5:30 or so just as the erea start to head out for dinner.  How mad is this in holiday season.  The only late route is the 620 to Marrochy Door and tat requires walking of up to 900 m to get to into the suburbs. 

+1 I would love to see this as well. We go to Noosa regularly and I have no doubt this would be well utilised well into the night - There's always people walking up and down Noosa Dr and Noosa Pde all times of the night.

Fridge

Quote from: nikko on January 09, 2010, 16:02:01 PM
Quote from: Jonno on January 09, 2010, 09:02:57 AM
Add to the list the 627 Sunshine Beach to Tewantain via Noosa Head (and other Noosa routes).  These routes stop operating around 5:30 or so just as the erea start to head out for dinner.  How mad is this in holiday season.  The only late route is the 620 to Marrochy Door and tat requires walking of up to 900 m to get to into the suburbs. 

+1 I would love to see this as well. We go to Noosa regularly and I have no doubt this would be well utilised well into the night - There's always people walking up and down Noosa Dr and Noosa Pde all times of the night.

This seems systemmatic in most outlying suburbs, in Caboolture most buses start their last runs from about 6.30pm

stephenk

I received a second reply about my most recent Northern Busway complaint, this time from Brisbane Transport:-

"Thank you for contacting TransLink regarding alterations to route 66.

As you may be aware, TransLink undertook an investigation into the matters you raised. In consulting with our delivery partner, we were provided with the below information:

Brisbane Transport thank you for your suggestion to extend route 66 to the RCH and the RWBH. However, Brisbane Transport operates on contract to TransLink and the decision-making process is  currently  with TransLink.  When a decision has been made, the announcement will be made through the media and will be on the TransLink Website.  We apologise for the inconvenience that this has caused you however there are many factors to take into consideration before alterations to this route occur."
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2007 - 7tph
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2010 - 4tph
* departures from Central between 16:30 and 17:30.

somebody

Quote from: stephenk on January 17, 2010, 17:59:06 PM
I received a second reply about my most recent Northern Busway complaint, this time from Brisbane Transport:-

"Thank you for contacting TransLink regarding alterations to route 66.

As you may be aware, TransLink undertook an investigation into the matters you raised. In consulting with our delivery partner, we were provided with the below information:

Brisbane Transport thank you for your suggestion to extend route 66 to the RCH and the RWBH. However, Brisbane Transport operates on contract to TransLink and the decision-making process is  currently  with TransLink.  When a decision has been made, the announcement will be made through the media and will be on the TransLink Website.  We apologise for the inconvenience that this has caused you however there are many factors to take into consideration before alterations to this route occur."

That's just a rephrase of "we don't appreciate you daring to question our actions, so sod off."

This should be escalated IMHO.

#Metro

#141
Fair enough that BT is just operating the buses under the command of TL.
And TLs response is "BUZ off".

Charter a bus from a licensed operator and just pick up passengers for gold coin donation and take them to RBWH on the busway. It could also go to UQ while its there. With all that latent demand in the [109 + 66] corridor it might even be profitable. No ticket required. It could be a ripoff of route 66 - called "route 99".

NB: Not sure if this is allowed though.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

somebody

Quote from: tramtrain on January 17, 2010, 20:54:24 PM
Fair enough that BT is just operating the buses under the command of TL.
And TLs response is "BUZ off".

Charter a bus from a licensed operator and just pick up passengers for gold coin donation and take them to RBWH on the busway. It could also go to UQ while its there. With all that latent demand in the [109 + 66] corridor it might even be profitable. No ticket required. It could be a ripoff of route 66 - called "route 99".

NB: Not sure if this is allowed though.
Not quite sure what would stop it, other than BCC being unwilling to fund something that TL should be doing.

beauyboy

And that is the problem, Translink is BROKE and Stupid but BCC is also broke but will get no publicity if they fund it themselves because it is on State Infrastructre, not council infrastructure.

Donald
www.space4cyclingbne.com
www.cbdbug.org.au

somebody

Quote from: beauyboy on January 19, 2010, 12:08:54 PM
And that is the problem, Translink is BROKE and Stupid but BCC is also broke but will get no publicity if they fund it themselves because it is on State Infrastructre, not council infrastructure.

Donald
TL may be broke, but they do have the option of cutting a less overloaded service and increasing service at RB&WH.  So broke isn't an excuse, they just don't want to solve the problem.

#Metro

QuoteBROKE and Stupid but BCC is also broke

Hmm. I wonder why?
Can't be rates- more people moving to SEQ means more ratepayers
Can't be rate levels- house prices have hit the roof and rates are going up higher than inflation

Could it be... tunnels...
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

beauyboy

Well I didn't vote for him and his additional road capacity.

Donald
www.space4cyclingbne.com
www.cbdbug.org.au

Sir Loin

Got on the 7:34am 333 bus at the cultural centre this morning. I had just seen the large bendy 66 bus go past with about 5 people onboard. There were so many people get on the 333 that I was one of 4 people standing as it went over the bridge. More people got on at King George and only 2 people were able to get on at Roma, leaving at 20+ people waiting.

Only a couple of people got off at Kelvin Grove (I imagine a few more would have gotten on the 66 which was ahead of us), our bus was basically empty as it left RBWH.

Why can't the RBWH services be allocated the extended bendy buses?

Yesterday afternoon, I waited for over 20 minutes for a overdue bus to arrive at RBWH. It then left behind about 8 people (including a young mother with children in a pram) waiting at the RCH stop. I missed my connecting train at Roma by 30 seconds >:(

It gets to the stage where it makes you angry when you get to work, then angry by the time you get home. Public transport is ruining my life :'(

ozbob

The situation at Herston has been brought to the attention of TransLink Sir Loin. 

I am hopeful that there will be some service improvements shortly.

8)

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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somebody

#149
Pretty interesting suggestion to swap in some bendy buses on the 333 run.  I'd think the only place which could possibly be a problem for this would be the Chermside interchange and KGSBS.  While it isn't a cost neutral suggestion, they could trim other services a little bit.  Perhaps if they need to move to a different stop in KGSBS that would be too hard.

Quote from: ozbob on January 21, 2010, 11:02:08 AM
I am hopeful that there will be some service improvements shortly.
Do you have some under the counter information?  I know you can't answer that.

Seems that everything is suggesting they have no plans to do anything about it for an indefinite period.

#Metro

QuoteGot on the 7:34am 333 bus at the cultural centre this morning. I had just seen the large bendy 66 bus go past with about 5 people onboard. There were so many people get on the 333 that I was one of 4 people standing as it went over the bridge. More people got on at King George and only 2 people were able to get on at Roma, leaving at 20+ people waiting.

Only a couple of people got off at Kelvin Grove (I imagine a few more would have gotten on the 66 which was ahead of us), our bus was basically empty as it left RBWH.

Why can't the RBWH services be allocated the extended bendy buses?

Yesterday afternoon, I waited for over 20 minutes for a overdue bus to arrive at RBWH. It then left behind about 8 people (including a young mother with children in a pram) waiting at the RCH stop. I missed my connecting train at Roma by 30 seconds

Just put a train on the line. It would get you to RBWH Herston in 2 minutes flat and carries ~ 800 people.
There is even a station already there and a track to boot! Trial  :pr
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

somebody

Quote from: tramtrain on January 21, 2010, 12:09:45 PM
Just put a train on the line. It would get you to RBWH Herston in 2 minutes flat and carries ~ 800 people.
There is even a station already there and a track to boot! Trial  :pr
Now, now.  It wouldn't be two minutes flat.  It's slightly further from Roma St than Auchenflower.  But maybe about 4 if there is no congestion problem.

I think there's three questions here:
1) Would congestion on the Exhibition line be a problem?
2) Would this be preferable to improved busway service? - I think the answer to this is probably no as the station's location is less convenient to the hospital.
3) Would this be cheaper to run than improved busway service? - Doubtful.

longboi

Whats this fascination with the Exhibition line?!?! It is already used extensively for train movements and is of benefit only to hospital staff who already have two busway stations.

The northern busway isn't anywhere near complete yet but in time it will be just as functional as the SE Busway.
Spending money to upgrade the exhibition loop is just a waste, I can think of ten projects off the top of my head that are much more important than the Ekka loop.


stephenk

Quote from: ozbob on January 21, 2010, 11:02:08 AM
The situation at Herston has been brought to the attention of TransLink Sir Loin. 

I am hopeful that there will be some service improvements shortly.

8)



I'm hopeful too! Nearly 6 months of increased frustration for RCH Herston commuters since the opening of RBWH station, and 20 months since the problems started with the stunting of the 393.

I used the Northern Busway from RCH into the CBD yesterday and today after work. On both occasions, the first bus did not stop at RCH Herston as it was full, and the second filled up the capacity at RCH Herston leaving passengers behind. Both waits were 23mins - significantly longer than the theoretical average wait of approx 3-4mins (8-10 buses/hour)!

Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2007 - 7tph
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2010 - 4tph
* departures from Central between 16:30 and 17:30.

#Metro

Yes, I used to think Exhibition line was a waste of time.
But that is if you only see what is there now. It's what you don't see, and what one could see (which could be part of a bigger picture) then it begins to make a lot of sense.

Quote
I think there's three questions here:
1) Would congestion on the Exhibition line be a problem?
2) Would this be preferable to improved busway service? - I think the answer to this is probably no as the station's location is less convenient to the hospital.
3) Would this be cheaper to run than improved busway service? - Doubtful.

1. No. QR has been parking wagons on it, there are 6 tracks in places. Remove Mayne and the problem simplifies.
As an aside, Why does through-freight have to travel anywhere near the city anyway? Trucks bypass the city entirely using the Gateway or ICB. Rail bypass for Brisbane.

2. This is the wrong/biased question. There are co-located stations at Park Rd, South Bank, South Brisbane/Cultural Centre, Buranda etc. Should we rip them up or never built them at all? As part of a bigger picture, rail would make sense and serve a very different function to that of the INB.

3. Would it be cheaper? Again, depends on whether the bus and train service are the same kind of service with the same purpose. I'm not advocating a service only to Exhibition, I'm advocating for a service which includes Exhibition.

And there can be no talk of expenses without references to benefits. I could use that same argument to justify not building the INB in favour of simply expanding the ICB freeway. Bus might be cheaper, but it might have substantially lower benefits to the public (speed, capacity, route) as part of a bigger picture.

In the shorter term, more buses would be helpful. Good luck with lobbying TL for that one  :-t
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

somebody

Quote from: tramtrain on January 21, 2010, 22:01:29 PM
And there can be no talk of expenses without references to benefits. I could use that same argument to justify not building the INB in favour of simply expanding the ICB freeway. Bus might be cheaper, but it might have substantially lower benefits to the public (speed, capacity, route) as part of a bigger picture.
But that was exactly the question I was trying to ask in my question 2!  Are you thinking of benefits to people other than hospital workers?

Unless there is a service to Exhibition from the Bowen Hills end, you are really talking about a service which is less useful than the existing busway service would be with a decent service.  People coming to the hospital from the northern lines are better off getting off the train at Bowen Hills and either using the 393 or just walking it.  Coming from the southern end, you would have to be talking about extending some Roma St terminators to Exhibition.  These aren't really useful for through passengers (unless they're mobility impaired), all passengers would be changing from the Ipswich and south lines at Roma St.  Just like for the busway.

beauyboy

people can also catch services such as the 375, 379... etc that run between the RBWH and the Brunswick Street station.

The keys here are improved busway services and and greater public awareness of services.

Making the 375 a BUZ would partly resolve the need for a station at the Ekka to open as it would serve that corridor between the RBWH and the Valley.

Donald
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somebody

Quote from: beauyboy on January 22, 2010, 11:35:15 AM
Making the 375 a BUZ would partly resolve the need for a station at the Ekka to open as it would serve that corridor between the RBWH and the Valley.
That would require butcherring some sacred cows, like BUZ's must service the Cultural Centre for a start.  I'm pretty unconvinced that this should be the next BUZ in any event.

#Metro

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Unless there is a service to Exhibition from the Bowen Hills end, you are really talking about a service which is less useful than the existing busway service would be with a decent service.

Fair comment. But I think you're not seeing what I'm seeing.

What if the train left from QUT Gardens Point/Parliament? ;)
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

#Metro

Quote

But that was exactly the question I was trying to ask in my question 2!  Are you thinking of benefits to people other than hospital workers?

Well there would be benefits, among others, such as less congestion at Cultural Centre and less strain on the busway network for INB stations. The Nth Busway is going to become very popular when as it becomes extended towards Chermside.
It will face the same problems as the Sth Busway does today. And the Sth Busway has co-located stations at South Brisbane, South Bank, Park Rd and Buranda... the INB has none.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

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