Toowoomba <> Brisbane

[#Metro]

Which brings us to today, the Greyhound express bus Roma St to Toowoomba, via the Gatton Bypass, and quite a bit faster than any of the previous rail/bus co-ordinated services. It does a fine job as is, and we should not be meddling with it.

Disagree with this completely.

There needs to be an hourly TransLink service to and from Toowoomba, direct from Brisbane, no train connections forced, TransLink fares, TransLink Go Card, swipe on, swipe off, no need to book.

Pay $11 - $18 adult fare, introduce concessions and student fares etc as well. Trips taken on it count towards the 9-then free weekly cap.
Funds can be sourced from Toowoomba Regional Council as a contribution as well.

[colinw]

Why?

Demonstrate for us why there is a need for this service.  Sell it to us.

As I said, I am a regular user of the Toowoomba to Brisbane bus, have been for decades, and am perfectly happy with it. It is better now than it ever has been, and far better since it was untangled from QR and connection off crappy Ipswich local rail services.

And why do you want to subsidize a 120km+ bus journey with such cheap fares?

We've got a bus service here which is doing fine as is, from an area that is outside TransLink's sphere of operation, and you want to force it into TransLink for no reason other than a bald assertion that it should be TransLink for some reason.

I will oppose you implacably on this one. Not buying it.

As far as priorities for SEQ public transport go, this must be down near the bottom of the list.

[HappyTrainGuy]

How about getting hourly bus services to places within 15km of Brisbane. How about a damn bus that actually runs in some parts on a Sunday. I'd be extatic if I even saw buses that were running after 5.30pm!

[somebody]

Why should there be no need to book?  Are you then going to allow standees??  That would be very unusual on bus services reaching over 80km/h in general traffic.

How about getting hourly bus services to places within 15km of Brisbane. How about a damn bus that actually runs in some parts on a Sunday. I'd be extatic if I even saw buses that were running after 5.30pm!

Indeed.

[colinw]

+1. 

Indeed. I live 20km from the Brisbane CBD and don't have a bus service that good.  Can't even go out at night and use the bus to get home, because it quits at 7:20PM.  And being Clarks Logan City Buslines, free travel for the footy doesn't work on it either.

Dragging TransLink into something like this when we can't even get the network basics right in Brisbane would be just plain insane.  Change for the sake of change.

Besides I see it as the "thin end of the wedge".  What next, TransLink to Maryborough?  TransLink from Toowoomba to Oakey? We'll end up with TransLink across the whole darn state and unable to co-ordinate anything it will be stretched so thin.

This discussion is nuts.

[HappyTrainGuy]

*facepalm* Almost as bad as the 338 on weekends. Gotta love the two hour frequencies still in use in 2012. Anyone got photos of the 314 timetable? I'm even laughing at the thought of seeing it

[#Metro]

Demonstrate for us why there is a need for this service.  Sell it to us.

Major regional centre, population ~ 130 000 +, no rail service. Sunshine Coast, Caboolture, Ipswich, Gold Coast all connected and (Sunshine Coast/Gold Coast) within comparable distance. Toowoomba is a similar distance, and yet not connected to SEQ.

As I said, I am a regular user of the Toowoomba to Brisbane bus, have been for decades, and am perfectly happy with it. It is better now than it ever has been, and far better since it was untangled from QR and connection off crappy Ipswich local rail services.

And why do you want to subsidize a 120km+ bus journey with such cheap fares?

Distance is around 100km. Check the distances from Coolangatta (zone 18) or Gympie North (172 km from Central), all of which are within TL boundaries, TL ticketing and TL fares. Yet Toowoomba is not.

We've got a bus service here which is doing fine as is, from an area that is outside TransLink's sphere of operation, and you want to force it into TransLink for no reason other than a bald assertion that it should be TransLink for some reason.

It is expensive and not integrated. Places at or greater than comparable distance are within the TL network, and yet Toowoomba is not. Plus, but I have received feedback from a person studying at UQ Gatton for want of a better service. The car petrol costs ex Brisbane are crazy plus they're not going to pay $60 per day on coaches to get there.

I will oppose you implacably on this one. Not buying it.

That's your stance, not mine.

As far as priorities for SEQ public transport go, this must be down near the bottom of the list.

Disagree. Toowoomba Regional Council could be approached for funding. Everybody et. al has been looking at hyper-expensive dead-end rail non-solutions, use the bus and a road, both are there, they just need to be integrated.

[#Metro]

Indeed. I live 20km from the Brisbane CBD and don't have a bus service that good.  Can't even go out at night and use the bus to get home, because it quits at 7:20PM.  And being Clarks Logan City Buslines, free travel for the footy doesn't work on it either.

Does your house have 130 000 + people living at it and is a major regional centre? Didn't think so.

[colinw]

Indeed. I live 20km from the Brisbane CBD and don't have a bus service that good.  Can't even go out at night and use the bus to get home, because it quits at 7:20PM.  And being Clarks Logan City Buslines, free travel for the footy doesn't work on it either.

Does your house have 130 000 + people living at it and is a major regional centre? Didn't think so.

Ok, so now you're happy to argue that well populated suburban areas a moderate distance from the CBD or another regional centre like Mt Gravatt don't deserve a decent service, but somewhere 100 km away does despite it being a distinct centre without a huge commuter flow to Brisbane.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to take anything you say seriously. It seems that your viewpoint just morphs & changes based on the latest enthusiasm, and when challenged you will come out with rubbish like I have quoted here which undermines everything the group stands for.

I love the way, when challenged, you suddenly start running other peoples rights to a service down.

I think you are talking unmitigated rubbish here, and will continue to say so. Quite simply, I do not agree with you. Deal with it.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Indeed. I live 20km from the Brisbane CBD and don't have a bus service that good.  Can't even go out at night and use the bus to get home, because it quits at 7:20PM.  And being Clarks Logan City Buslines, free travel for the footy doesn't work on it either.

Does your house have 130 000 + people living at it and is a major regional centre? Didn't think so.

How many people would you say live between Chermside and Mtchelton and have to put up with the 1.5-2 hour 354?

[#Metro]

Ok, so now you're happy to argue that well populated suburban areas a moderate distance from the CBD or another regional centre like Mt Gravatt don't deserve a decent service, but somewhere 100 km away does despite it being a distinct centre without a huge commuter flow to Brisbane.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to take anything you say seriously. It seems that your viewpoint just morphs & changes based on the latest enthusiasm, and when challenged you will come out with rubbish like I have quoted here which undermines everything the group stands for.

I think you are talking unmitigated rubbish here, and will continue to say so.

Getting back to the debate at hand...

If we have services to Gympie North (172 km away), we have services to Coolangatta (100 km), why do we not have TL services to Toowoomba (~ 100 km away, major centre)? TransLink needs to come out and explain their rationale for leaving Toowoomba outside the TL system, when it contains a major regional population centre at comparable distances to other TL covered areas. It also needs to explain why Coolangatta and Gympie North which all come under TL fares etc are ok, but Toowoomba, at a similar distance, does not.

Just because it does not have a rail option (like Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast), doesn't mean that a decent TL service can't be provided.

By your own arguments, perhaps we should excise the Sunshine Coast region and Southern Gold Coast region from the TL system, get a private coach which they have to pre-book (real popular this one) and serve them with that at $30 bucks a pop and no concession either.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Zero bus services to Gympie that are under the Translink banner. There are two trains under the Translink banner which are pretty much Nambour service extensions or as you reference bus services "welfare services". There are another three-four direct fast and comfy train services under the TravelTrain banner and another three-four direct fast comfy bus services under the Greyhound banner again. Both Greyhound/TravelTrain trips are about $40, are direct, are fast with limited stops and offer better comfort.

[Gazza]

TT, you still havent answered my question...Which buses in Mackay are more frequent than Bulimba?

[Arnz]

By your own arguments, perhaps we should excise the Sunshine Coast region and Southern Gold Coast region from the TL system, get a private coach which they have to pre-book (real popular this one) and serve them with that at $30 bucks a pop and no concession either.

The Gold Coast Train Service also competes with Greyhound and the many many Airport to Motel/Hotel/Major area operators, same with the Sunshine Coast, they have Greyhound and many Airport to Motel/Hotel/Major area operators too.  As HTG also pointed out QR Traveltrain also books passengers Brisbane-Nambour-Cooroy-Gympie on their long distance services to Central and Northern Queensland. 

Premier Motor Service are also Greyhound's competitors on the same corridors.  Veolia Queensland used to have a 1x day express service to Noosa before they withdrew from the market and concentrated on the Brisbane-Sunshine Coast day tour business.

Most of TransLink's competitors on the same corridors are doing fine, despite charging a premium over the TransLink service.

[STB]

Sigh...

TT, if Greyhound doesn't want to be part of the TL network, TL can't force it to.  And if they have quite a workable business now, I highly doubt that they would want to go under TL, doesn't make any business sense.  If TL try to find an alternative operator, Greyhound have the legal right to take action against TL from loss of potential income.  It's a legal and contractual minefield, which I've come across before when I tried to get Westside to service Karalee about five years ago.  Because it went into another operators area, we were told in no uncertain terms that legally we cannot do that without having to deal with the consequences of compensating for loss of the other operator's business.

Also, as I've stated some time ago in another thread, legally no passenger can stand on a bus beyond 20kms, which is partly why Greyhound has to be prebooked, to control the numbers travelling that long distance.

And I concur with Colin, I can't take you seriously either nowadays, from coming up with ideas such as building a brand new rail line right next to an existing track, ala your very obvious fight with former member Stephen K who quite rightly got frustrated with you when you just wouldn't listen to what he was reasonably saying, through to just not getting the idea that the 590 can't go via Cannon Hill though to this thread.  And I'm only mentioning a few of your unworkable, unrealistic ideas here.  There is no debate, the others are correct, and not just for what I've mentioned above.   Move on!

[Arnz]

Let's not forget the Toilet requirements.  You can rule using a coach out, most of them don't meet DDA requirements, and the few of them that do, take a lot more space (eg big ramp along with the  ramp being powered by motors) than the typical low floor and also takes a lot more time for the driver to load up a passenger requiring DDA access.   There are also no "low floor" buses that has toilets onboard either, as low floors were designed for urban all-stopping or urban limited stop trips, not long distance runs.

At least most Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast trains have toilet facilities (except when they're out of order - aka when tanks needs decanting).

[#Metro]

It's just a forum. Yes really~! 

TT, if Greyhound doesn't want to be part of the TL network, TL can't force it to.  And if they have quite a workable business now, I highly doubt that they would want to go under TL, doesn't make any business sense.

My understanding is that they already do receive subsidy from Queensland Transport for the Toowoomba-Brisbane run, correct me if I am wrong, do you have info counter to this? If a train line were placed to Toowoomba with passenger service, would compensation be payable also then for lost custom. I think you are referring to competitive neutrality?

Also, as I've stated some time ago in another thread, legally no passenger can stand on a bus beyond 20kms, which is partly why Greyhound has to be prebooked, to control the numbers travelling that long distance.

This is true - I think route 141 is the other one that doesn't permit standing (a TL service operated by BT). The no standing requirement though doesn't prevent TL integration though IMHO. It just means pre-booking or making sure that there is always excess capacity.

And I concur with Colin, I can't take you seriously either nowadays, from coming up with ideas such as building a brand new rail line right next to an existing track, ala your very obvious fight with former member Stephen K who quite rightly got frustrated with you when you just wouldn't listen to what he was reasonably saying, through to just not getting the idea that the 590 can't go via Cannon Hill though to this thread.  And I'm only mentioning a few of your unworkable, unrealistic ideas here.  There is no debate, the others are correct, and not just for what I've mentioned above.   Move on!

Not a crime to have a 'wrong' opinion or fanciful ideas. Once upon a time high frequency buses running every 15 minutes on Sunday night up until 11.30 pm, busways or building a network around transferring was considered fanciful...

[techblitz]

im going to assume that translink focus on north to south is because there is a hell of lot more population than going east to west

At the end of the day...numbers is what counts....if there aint the numbers then dont waste money on it.

[#Metro]

im going to assume that translink focus on north to south is because there is a hell of lot more population than going east to west

At the end of the day...numbers is what counts....if there aint the numbers then dont waste money on it.

I don't have the numbers, I might need to derive them, but from the newspaper article in this thread the Toowoomba-Brisbane run is one of the busiest for the company. There would be more passengers with the gaps filled, longer span and cheaper fares of course. Now I don't expect the patronage on this thing to rival that of the Gold Coast line, but I think it would be worthwhile to look at and model.

Toowoomba Regional Council has been proposing a rail link, but they are blinded by mode, if focused on buses/coaches they might actually get somewhere.


http://www.thechronicle.com.au/story/2011/01/13/public-transport-brisbane-returns/

Quote

    The Toowoomba – Brisbane route is the busiest commuter route for the national coach company in Australia and hundreds of passengers rely on it for transportation as well as freight needs on a daily basis.

    The drop off and pick up points remain as normal in both Brisbane (Roma Street) and Toowoomba (28 Neil Street).

[STB]

It's just a forum. Yes really~! 

TT, if Greyhound doesn't want to be part of the TL network, TL can't force it to.  And if they have quite a workable business now, I highly doubt that they would want to go under TL, doesn't make any business sense.

My understanding is that they already do receive subsidy from Queensland Transport for the Toowoomba-Brisbane run, correct me if I am wrong, do you have info counter to this? If a train line were placed to Toowoomba with passenger service, would compensation be payable also then for lost custom. I think you are referring to competitive neutrality?

Also, as I've stated some time ago in another thread, legally no passenger can stand on a bus beyond 20kms, which is partly why Greyhound has to be prebooked, to control the numbers travelling that long distance.

This is true - I think route 141 is the other one that doesn't permit standing (a TL service operated by BT). The no standing requirement though doesn't prevent TL integration though IMHO. It just means pre-booking or making sure that there is always excess capacity.

And I concur with Colin, I can't take you seriously either nowadays, from coming up with ideas such as building a brand new rail line right next to an existing track, ala your very obvious fight with former member Stephen K who quite rightly got frustrated with you when you just wouldn't listen to what he was reasonably saying, through to just not getting the idea that the 590 can't go via Cannon Hill though to this thread.  And I'm only mentioning a few of your unworkable, unrealistic ideas here.  There is no debate, the others are correct, and not just for what I've mentioned above.   Move on!

Not a crime to have a 'wrong' opinion or fanciful ideas. Once upon a time high frequency buses running every 15 minutes on Sunday night up until 11.30 pm, or building a network around transferring was considered fanciful...

Well you just self defeated your argument, you want it to be within the TL network, but you also now want it pre-booked, which defeats the purpose of it being in the TL network.

Regarding your original thing....so the past 4 years of myself being in the heat of the western region (and other regions) planning isn't enough for you?  I no longer have access to the paperwork, but I'm sure you can take my word for it.  Would you like a copy of my resume as proof of what I did there?  I can give you a referee .

Not a crime, no, but certainly doesn't add cred to yourself or to RBOT overall.  Just will give ammo to the naysayers that we are just a bunch of uneducated foamers.

[Arnz]

It's just a forum. Yes really~! 

TT, if Greyhound doesn't want to be part of the TL network, TL can't force it to.  And if they have quite a workable business now, I highly doubt that they would want to go under TL, doesn't make any business sense.

My understanding is that they already do receive subsidy from Queensland Transport for the Toowoomba-Brisbane run, correct me if I am wrong, do you have info counter to this? If a train line were placed to Toowoomba with passenger service, would compensation be payable also then for lost custom. I think you are referring to competitive neutrality?

Only for the Toowoomba-Brisbane ALL-STOPS services, as shown on this map.
www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/b7f18f3d-c899-4cdb-aa42-6379e1014185/pdf_qconnect_service_area_0707.pdf

I believe the express services are operated by Greyhound directly, and iirc is where most of the patronage goes.

Not a crime to have a 'wrong' opinion or fanciful ideas. Once upon a time high frequency buses running every 15 minutes on Sunday night up until 11.30 pm, or building a network around transferring was considered fanciful...

Of course it's not a crime to have some ideas, but unrealistic foaming ideas like a "maglev bus from Doomben to Caboolture" express, or the "Morningside to Fortitude Valley underground line" can expect to have very heavy criticism.

[STB]

Not a crime to have a 'wrong' opinion or fanciful ideas. Once upon a time high frequency buses running every 15 minutes on Sunday night up until 11.30 pm, or building a network around transferring was considered fanciful...

Of course it's not a crime to have some ideas, but unrealistic foaming ideas like a "maglev bus from Doomben to Caboolture" express, or the "Morningside to Fortitude Valley underground line" can expect to have very heavy criticism.

And quite rightly laughed and ignored.  Welcome to the hard truth TT .

[#Metro]

Well you just self defeated your argument, you want it to be within the TL network, but you also now want it pre-booked, which defeats the purpose of it being in the TL network.

Sorry STB, do you pre-book route 141 before you ride on it?... didn't think so.

Where did I say "I want it pre-booked"? The statement

The no standing requirement though doesn't prevent TL integration though IMHO. It just means pre-booking or making sure that there is always excess capacity.

simply means that if there absolutely has to be NO STANDING PASSENGERS and this means pre-booking, this still does not prevent integration with TL (Go Card, fare and zone structures).

Regarding your original thing....so the past 4 years of myself being in the heat of the western region (and other regions) planning isn't enough for you?  I no longer have access to the paperwork, but I'm sure you can take my word for it.  Would you like a copy of my resume as proof of what I did there?  I can give you a referee .

No you can keep your resume, I was just asking if the law you were referring to was the competitive neutrality one. Now, was that a yes or a no?

Not a crime, no, but certainly doesn't add cred to yourself or to RBOT overall.  Just will give ammo to the naysayers that we are just a bunch of uneducated foamers.

Nonsense. The RAILBOT Terms of Reference are quite clear. No prohibition against ideas.

[#Metro]

Of course it's not a crime to have some ideas, but unrealistic foaming ideas like a "maglev bus from Doomben to Caboolture" express, or the "Morningside to Fortitude Valley underground line" can expect to have very heavy criticism.

While I can appreciate your view, the real foam here is proposals and ideas for regular QR passenger trains up to Toowoomba - and a view even espoused by Toowoomba Regional Council! That is NEVER going to happen!. Pardon me if I try to find a more realistic alternative using buses!

I will remind forum posters in this thread who are quite quick to criticise to read the following statements, particularly the last one because a rail line between Toowoomba-Brisbane (foam?? , using rail motors), is our official position...

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=214.0

Posted on behalf of Centenary Heights State High School Students Environmental leadership Council

RAIL Back On Track strongly supports this proposal.

Proposal: Toowoomba - Brisbane Train Link

This letter is addressing the need for a fast-link passenger train service between Toowoomba and Brisbane.

If Toowoomba is to take its place as a major hub of tourism there needs to be sufficient transport services between Toowoomba and the state capital. This service needs to be at regular intervals to provide a legitimate alternative for persons already driving.

See here --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=189.0

Media Release 13 August 2007

Rail passenger service for commuting between Toowoomba and Ipswich needed!

Rail Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) supports calls for regular rail motor services for Toowoomba and thinks that such a service should connect Toowoomba and Ipswich. Toowoomba is presently behind most significant regional cities of similar or lesser size around Australia in that it is lacking a fast, frequent public rail transport service to the major capital.

Robert Dow said:

?A project recently undertaken by the Government in Victoria delivered new ?Vlocity? diesel rail motors (1) and upgraded lines between the regional cities of Bendigo and Ballarat to allow 160km/h speeds and dramatically improved service frequencies to these cities.  The benefits of the improved services lead to increases in patronage to a 50 year high and better transport options for regional residents with the Victorian Government ordering a further two motor units and an additional 14 trailer cars to cope with demand.  Similarly the Blue Mountains are linked to Parramatta and Sydney by an electrified rail network.  The population of Toowoomba is larger than Bendigo, Ballarat and comparable to the Blue Mountains suggesting that a fast, frequent rail service would be well justified for Toowoomba.?

I don't deny that there is a need for a decent link between Toowoomba and Brisbane, but in my opinion, it won't be rail for a long time. Bendigo, Ballarat, Blue Mountains etc - are these all going to be on usual PT network fares?

Not so foamy now!!

[Arnz]

I just want to point out that they're 2 different press releases.  Brisbane-Toowoomba and Ipswich to Toowoomba from 2007, and one of them was a brief release supporting a "school" organisation's call.

Also the "fast, frequent" tagline on the press releases also covers the call for work (re-alignment) required to achieve that goal, referencing Victoria's work in re-aligning lines to achieve their goal. 

Had the press release said "Frequent" service on the current alignment, then it may border on foaming.

[#Metro]

I just want to point out that they're 2 different press releases.  Brisbane-Toowoomba and Ipswich to Toowoomba from 2007, and one of them was supporting a "school" call.

Also the "fast, frequent" tagline on the press releases also covers the call for work (re-alignment) required to achieve that goal.  Had the press release said "Frequent" service on the current alignment, then it may border on foaming.

Look, someone even started a petition on it ---> http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/toowoomba-brisbane-train-link.html

Toowoomba city along with South East Queensland is growing at a great rate and because of this, there needs to be an extension of transport services. As a result of mass automobile transport between Toowoomba and Brisbane, there is a large contribution to climate change, through carbon emissions.

A regular passenger train service, as public transport, would firstly, reduce carbon emissions, as well as being beneficial for commuters.

And here I am being called a foamer - just because I think it would be good to use my GoCard and not have to pay extortion fares..., and when other places at the same or further distance in SEQ already have it. Foamer Indeed!!

I've put my idea out there, if people don't like it, that's fine, I've put it out there. And that's the important thing.

[Gazza]

TT.... The buses in Mackay? Which ones are more frequent than Bulimba?
You've replied to other people with several posts in the interim, but ignore me repeatedly? Why?

[#Metro]

Hi Gazza,

Route 6 mackay versus 232, however I misread the additional services on Saturday as being on weekdays due to the way the table is formatted.
Both route 6 and 232 are hourly. I will retract my statement if it is incorrect.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Toowoomba-Brisbane is different than Brisbane-Gympie/Beyond and Brisbane-Gold Coast/Beyond due to how they are run with small local providers such as Arnz pointed out; other well established bus providers such as Vioela which Arnz also pointed out too along with other long distance competitors that are well established in the market such as Greyhound, Queensland Rail's Traveltrain and CountryLink (XPT and Coach services). Toowoomba-Brisbane is pretty much only Greyhound/Greyhound dominated corridor.

I forgot all about Premier MS. Do they still offer faster trips from Brisbane-Surfers faster than Translink for pretty much the same price? If they ran a service in the morning and one in the afternoon I'm sure it would steal patronage from Translink services lol.

[STB]

Well you just self defeated your argument, you want it to be within the TL network, but you also now want it pre-booked, which defeats the purpose of it being in the TL network.

Sorry STB, do you pre-book route 141 before you ride on it?... didn't think so.

Where did I say "I want it pre-booked"? The statement

Firstly you are thinking of route 142, not 141.  It has a seated load only due to the circumstance that it cannot drop/pick up passengers within the 20km limit.

Not a problem - TT:

Seems to be $25-35 each way, would be good if this was TL and hop on, swipe, hop-off.

, which implies that you see it as a non booked service, which Colin then quite rightly pointed out that it must be a booked service, and for good reason.  Hence, having a Go Card is not realistic as you cannot control the numbers on who will be boarding and the amount of luggage they will need to take on the bus. Which Arnz backed up with

Greyhound is a long distance intercity-interstate coach operator.  A passenger cannot simply just jump on and pay at the door.  They have to either pre-book or pay at the coach counter on the day of travel.

.  There was also this quote from you

But this can be changed (might not have to though). Passengers to the Sunshine Coast don't pre-book a seat on the QR train and that's long distance, intercity.

.

So, you see, you argued previously that it should not be prebooked then said

This is true - I think route 141 is the other one that doesn't permit standing (a TL service operated by BT). The no standing requirement though doesn't prevent TL integration though IMHO. It just means pre-booking or making sure that there is always excess capacity.

[Arnz]

I forgot all about Premier MS. Do they still offer faster trips from Brisbane-Surfers faster than Translink for pretty much the same price? If they ran a service in the morning and one in the afternoon I'm sure it would steal patronage from Translink services lol.

http://www.premierms.com.au/newhome/TimeTableSelect.asp

x3 services a day passing through the Gold Coast on the way to Lismore/Sydney.  1hr and 15 mins from Roma Street to Surfers Paradise transit center, a lot faster than the train + bus TransLink service.  They're doing fine for people that get on and off at Surfers (there is a market for those that want a direct service to Surfers at a premium fare), but the more budget concsious takes the TransLink train and bus service.

[#Metro]

STB I obviously want a service that is simple to use and you don't have to ring ahead and book it. But being a bus, which doesn't have excess seating capacity that a train has does present a potential problem if the bus becomes full due to this no standing rule.

Of course, if excess capacity could be provided on the bus (ie. forecast) by adding extra services when the bus would likely be full, this may actually be a solution to this problem.

In any case, regardless, having to book does not preclude it from being a TL service with TL fares.

Firstly you are thinking of route 142, not 141.  It has a seated load only due to the circumstance that it cannot drop/pick up passengers within the 20km limit.

Not a problem - TT:

Thank you for the correction. My mistake.

But like I said intended, no-one makes a booking for route 142. The no standing rule is enforced by making sure that there are no standees... not by enforcing bookings So it is possible to enforce the no standing rule *and* not have a booking - you make people who didn't book catch the next service, or ensure that you put enough services on at peak times such that everyone would have a seat.

Indeed it is possible to run booking/no booking concurrently - if you want to be guaranteed a seat, you ring up and book, or if you turn up and don't then you take a chance that you may have to catch the next one. For an hourly service that's not a bad thing IMHO.

No one rings up and books a seat on the 142...

[HappyTrainGuy]

http://www.premierms.com.au/newhome/TimeTableSelect.asp

x3 services a day passing through the Gold Coast on the way to Lismore/Sydney.  1hr and 15 mins from Roma Street to Surfers Paradise transit center, a lot faster than the train + bus TransLink service.  They're doing fine for people that get on and off at Surfers (there is a market for those that want a direct service to Surfers at a premium fare), but the more budget concsious takes the TransLink train and bus service.

Very very interesting.

PremierMS
Depart Roma Street: 4.00pm
Arrive Surfers Paradise Transit Centre: ~5.20pm
Travel Cost: $17.00 with healthcard concession-Student-Concession/$19.00 full fare

Translink
Depart Roma Street: 3.57pm
Arrive Surfers Paradise RSL (Opposit Transit Centre): 5.37pm + 200m walk
Depart Roma Street: 4.03pm
Arrive Surfers Paradise RSL (Opposit Transit Centre): 6.15pm + 200m walk
Travel Cost: $5.50 concession/$10.99 adult

[Gazza]

Hi Gazza,

Route 6 mackay versus 232, however I misread the additional services on Saturday as being on weekdays due to the way the table is formatted.
Both route 6 and 232 are hourly. I will retract my statement if it is incorrect.

If they are both hourly, then how does that make the Mackay one better?

If I get 8/10 on a maths test, and my friend also gets 8/10, did I get a better result than my friend?

Also, the 232 actually has half hour gaps in peak (eg Dep Cannon Hill 8:30, 9:00, 9:25....Dep Edward St 4:20, 4:50, 5:20, 5:50) , but the

Mackay route 6 is hourly all the way through. So the Mackay bus cant be better, by any means. It's actually worse.

[Fares_Fair]

Look, someone even started a petition on it ---> http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/toowoomba-brisbane-train-link.html

It appears to be an open ended petition, been going for 5 years !

Toowoomba-Brisbane Train Link
Petition published by Kyle and Nathan on Jun 03, 2007
563 Signatures

[HappyTrainGuy]

Mackay route 6 is hourly all the way through. So the Mackay bus cant be better, by any means. It's actually worse.

Looks identical to a Strathpine/Warner/Lawnton/Bray Park bus timetable to be honest minus the rail connection bits

[Gazza]

Does your house have 130 000 + people living at it and is a major regional centre? Didn't think so.

Lol fail. Buses have a 'catchement area', they don't just serve the house it stops in front of.

I'm suprised you didn't realise that.

Eg the 199, lets say it serves roughly half of West Ends population, and most of New Farm due to the way it goes through Merthyr.
Thats about 13,000 people served by that route, over only a few km.

Also, it seems to be some people on here can't separate raw population with travel demand....Eg because the SC has higher population than Springfield that means the SC line would carry more pax. Saying stuff like this ignores that short trips occur more often than longer one, and just because one area has more people doesn't mean they are all conveniently placed around the one stop...They could well be dispersed etc.

Major regional centre, population ~ 130 000 +, no rail service. Sunshine Coast, Caboolture, Ipswich, Gold Coast all connected and (Sunshine Coast/Gold Coast) within comparable distance. Toowoomba is a similar distance, and yet not connected to SEQ.

The main difference for me, particularly with the GC, is that it is more of a continuous urban area....Theoretically, you can get from Brisbane to Tweed heads using local buses for instance, due to this never-ending suburbia.
Beenleigh kisses the GC and Caboolture kisses the SC, and there is more 2 way travel demand.
On the other hand you get past Ippy and its 75km of farmland, with a couple of places 'on the way' like Gatton.

Rail services to Gympie north got tacked on because that's where CityTrain historically went. The Coastal strip from Noosa south to Caloundra also acts as the continuous urban area for those zones.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to take anything you say seriously. It seems that your viewpoint just morphs & changes based on the latest enthusiasm, and when challenged you will come out with rubbish like I have quoted here which undermines everything the group stands for.

I love the way, when challenged, you suddenly start running other peoples rights to a service down.

+1.
You need to accept you are wrong on something sometimes. Instead you'll go the other way and come up with increasingly and increasingly ridiculous reponses to any points put to you (Or ignore the parts of peoples posts that potentially undermine what you have written)...."Avoid being wrong at all costs". There's having an opinion, and theres the opinion actually being defensible.
I would agree its not a good look for RBoT when it just gets silly and there are posts with loud bolded phrases ( eg CUT!!!!!
I mean, obviously its quite a noticeable pattern, and not just a one off occurence, or else people wouldn't be commenting.

just because I think it would be good to use my GoCard and not have to pay extortion fares..., and when other places at the same or further distance in SEQ already have it. Foamer Indeed!!

My personal view on the former is that the coach fares to Toowoomba are not extortionate. Your backside is being shuttled 200km round trip, and people should be willing to pay for that service.
I've said before that fares to the GC and SC should be higher, with correspondingly fast and frequent trains (This is the way the Europeans and Japanese go about things)

Secondly, GoCard integration is nice to have, but not crucial IMO. I suppose if you were a daily user it would be nice, but ticketing technologies are not the be all and end all. Depends on the application really.

[Arnz]

As few people also said, the money could be sent into improving local bus services in Brisbane and other regions.  Brisbane Northern suburbs and Bulimba for starters.

And at the same time, surrounding regions could also have their own case for bus upgrades.  Arguing for bus services in my own region, some Sunshine Coast bus routes could do with a upgrade from hourly for starters (eg the 602 could be upgraded to half-hourly since they split the Nambour leg into its own route 612), and those at half-hourly might even have a case for a upgrade to 15 minutes (For example 616 University to Sunshine Plaza via Buderim - currently half-hourly frequency - starts at the University, passes through major urban centres, passes through beach suburbs, etc, some buses also have standing loads at times too).  We are also fortunate that the council charges the PT tax through our rates to fund some upgrades as well as introduce/trial cross-town routes like Route 623.

[Fares_Fair]

How long would a train trip to/from Toowoomba take?

[Arnz]

How long would a train trip to/from Toowoomba take?

Approx 3hrs on the Westlander, the alignment west of Grandchester is worse than the alignment north of Landsborough.

Also like us, the line also carries freight. (although it carries less freight than the NCL)