Toowoomba <> Brisbane

[ozbob]

Posted on behalf of Centenary Heights State High School Students Environmental leadership Council

RAIL Back On Track strongly supports this proposal.

Proposal: Toowoomba - Brisbane Train Link

This letter is addressing the need for a fast-link passenger train service between Toowoomba and Brisbane.

If Toowoomba is to take its place as a major hub of tourism there needs to be sufficient transport services between Toowoomba and the state capital. This service needs to be at regular intervals to provide a legitimate alternative for persons already driving.

Many Toowoomba residents travel to Brisbane everyday or regularly for employment. As a result of this we are becoming major contributors to climate change through carbon emissions. As a government and as residents of Toowoomba or Brisbane, we not only have a responsibility to reduce our impact on the environment but also, should have the ability to choose that option. 

The current transport services between the two cities, i.e. buses and the Westlander train service are not sufficient to the rising need of commuters. This letter is not concerning the progress of the State Bill currently being debated in Government, involving a Melbourne to Toowoomba train, but rather a simple, regular, electric train service, being put in place linking these two quickly developing cities; Toowoomba and Brisbane. 

The most sensible and logical approach that the government can take to addressing these issues is putting in place a regular train service for Toowoomba and Brisbane. Our ?Smart State? needs to start taking action on these smart choices for our future.

To express your support or endorsement please contact us via the above address or email: nelvery@hotmail.com. Alternatively sign our online petition at http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/toowoomba-brisbane-train-link.html

Sincerely,
Nathan Elvery and Kyle Howard
Centenary Heights State High School Students Environmental leadership Council

[ozbob]

RAIL Back On Track has a previous media release on rail between Toowoomba and Brisbane.

See --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=189.0

Regards
Ozbob

[#Metro]

Just wondering what the situation is with the bus that goes from Ipswich to UQ Gatton and up to Toowoomba. Is this a translink service and does anyone have the timetable/fares? Just know someone who has complained about getting around out that way.

Ideally the single bus that goes out there and on to Ips would be incorporated into TL if it isn't already.

[ozbob]

539 bus finishes at Helidon.  To go further various private ( non TransLink ) services.

[colinw]

Toowoomba local services are Qconnect, operated by various local buslines, mainly Stonestreets, Sunbus & Kynoch Coaches.

Buses beyond Rosewood railway station to Laidley, Gatton & Helidon are TransLink.  Should be a DMU service along that nice double track mainline, but I digress ... (Ok, I'm still sulking about the loss of the Helidon railcar service in 1993).

Services Roma St to Toowoomba are Greyhound, and are non TL. Some are dedicated Toowoomba services, others are part of longer distance runs.

http://www.greyhound.com.au/

Stonestreets (local Toowoomba bus company) used to run a competing service, but Greyhound bought it out.

[ozbob]

Helidon/Gatton definitely should have interurban rail services.  Connecting bus up/down the range for those going further.

In a can-do state like Victoria, there would be a hourly service during the day with at least 30 minute peak.  But that is a can-do state,  Queensland is a can't do ' we sold off the locos and carriages, rail motors and what not '.  Get on the roads, what do you think railways are for,  passengers?  HAHAHAHA

[SurfRail]

Toowoomba has got a single bus operator (Bus Queensland Toowoomba), which is the end result of a lot of different operators being amalgamated over the years.  Same operator runs the Ipswich, Park Ridge and Lockyer Valley TransLink services.

Until there is actually a connection between the systems, there is not a huge point to it - likewise the very limited Gympie network which has no connection to the train due to route design and hours of operation.

[#Metro]

So what people are saying is that it is not possible to sit in Toowoomba and get a direct bus to Ipswich that is QConnect or TL? Is this correct?

The purpose, I might add, isn't patronage. The purpose here is coverage and connectivity goals.

[#Metro]

Seems to be $25-35 each way, would be good if this was TL and hop on, swipe, hop-off.

[somebody]

So what people are saying is that it is not possible to sit in Toowoomba and get a direct bus to Ipswich that is QConnect or TL? Is this correct?

The purpose, I might add, isn't patronage. The purpose here is coverage and connectivity goals.

This service is covered far better and cheaper by commercial operators.

[#Metro]

http://www.greyhound.com.au/App_Assets/user/File/Timetables/Brisbane-Toowoomba.pdf

Better? How? Cheaper? How?

I think the section between Brisbane and Toowoomba can be made TL, just like the bay island ferries can be incorporated into TL. All TL would have to do is install go card readers, do up the road bus stops in TL livery and contract greyhound of whoever it is.

What zone would Toowoomba be in if we were to apply the TL zoning system to it?

[colinw]

It ain't broke, so why are you trying to fix it?

Before messing with the perfectly usable Greyhound services to Toowoomba, how about putting some effort into Lockyer valley services.

As for Go Card, these are pre-booked services for the most part. When I go to Toowoomba I typically purchase a week or two in advance (pay online & print).

[colinw]

Toowoomba has got a single bus operator (Bus Queensland Toowoomba), which is the end result of a lot of different operators being amalgamated over the years.  Same operator runs the Ipswich, Park Ridge and Lockyer Valley TransLink services.

There you go then. I was sure Stonestreets were still around.

[somebody]

Compare that to the Gatton TL services.

Cheaper in the sense of total cost, and fares to users are comparable to Translink fares, which are almost $20 to Gympie.

[ozbob]

I travelled in a Stonestreets coach Toowoomba to Ipswich in April, when the Westlander was terminated at Toowoomba due to track work.  It was a hire by QR Travel Train.  Relatively new coach but had the Stonestreets livery etc.

[#Metro]

It ain't broke, so why are you trying to fix it?

That's not what I'm hearing through the grapevine.

Before messing with the perfectly usable Greyhound services to Toowoomba, how about putting some effort into Lockyer valley services.

How about dealing with the issue at hand, not avoiding it.

As for Go Card, these are pre-booked services for the most part. When I go to Toowoomba I typically purchase a week or two in advance (pay online & print).

What does this mean? Should people going to Gympie or the Sunshine Coast Line pre-book as well?

[colinw]

It ain't broke, so why are you trying to fix it?

That's not what I'm hearing through the grapevine.

I use the Greyhound bus to Toowoomba several times a year. Nothing wrong with either the ticketing or comfort levels.  I'd HATE to see it caught up in the whole TransLink disaster.

HANDS OFF!

How about dealing with the issue at hand, not avoiding it.

I disagree that I am avoiding the issue.  I just don't think Toowoomba to Brisbane services are "broken" at present, and that is speaking as a user of them.  I do, however, think TransLink services beyond Ipswich are massively broken and nowhere near as good as what Laidley/Gatton/Grantham/Helidon had back in the '80s with the rail motor services.  I'd much rather focus efforts in that area rather than trying to extend the range of TransLink to a service that is doing fine on a standalone basis.

The last thing I want to do is extend the scope & geographical range of TransLink.  Its too big already, to the detriment of anyone outside the 20km from Brisbane radius who has the misfortune to be caught up in it.

If you want to expend energy in this area, do something about Lockyer Valley & greater Ipswich services rather than trying to drag Greyhound & Toowoomba services into Brisbane's network of failure.

EDIT: re-wrote to remove crankiness :-)

[Arnz]

Greyhound is a long distance intercity-interstate coach operator.  A passenger cannot simply just jump on and pay at the door.  They have to either pre-book or pay at the coach counter on the day of travel.

Also to mention, many services to Toowoomba continue on elsewhere to western/central Queensland, or down to Sydney via western NSW.

[SurfRail]

Toowoomba has got a single bus operator (Bus Queensland Toowoomba), which is the end result of a lot of different operators being amalgamated over the years.  Same operator runs the Ipswich, Park Ridge and Lockyer Valley TransLink services.

There you go then. I was sure Stonestreets were still around.

I should clarify that I was only talking about public route service.  Kynoch and Sunbus were bought out by the Pulitanos (Bus Queensland).  Stonestreets is still there in the school, charter and mining market, but Greyhound is the go-to operator for actually getting to Toowoomba from here.

Extending the 539 to Toowoomba wouldn't necessarily be impossible, but there would be very limited benefit given it would be connected to an all stations Rosewood train, then change to an all stations Ipswich train.  Even making the Ipswich train express would not carve a lot of time off it.

Any train would need to run like a Gold Coast service non-stop from Ipswich, maybe stopping at Darra and Indoroopilly only - and that means realignment and tunnels between Grandchester and Laidley to get to Gatton as a minimum.

[colinw]

Its been tried before.

Back in 1993 when the Rosewood electrification first opened, the Helidon railcar was replaced with a bus service beyond Rosewood to Grandchester, Laidley, Forest Hill, Gatton, Grantham & Helidon.

This was known as the "Rosewood Rail Bus".  It accepted QR tickets, and you could still buy a ticket to Helidon from any QR station.

The Rosewood Rail Bus in its first incarnation was operated by McCafferty's, and some of the Helidon services actually ran through to/from Toowoomba.

Uptake of the service beyond Gatton was very poor.  I tried to use the Toowoomba to Rosewood bus a few times, as a replacement for the former Toowoomba to Ipswich "Metro Link". It just didn't cut it compared to direct services via the Warrego Hwy, and actually managed to be somewhat slower and less comfortable even than the old 2000 class railmotor service (bless its memory).

Toowoomba to Brisbane passengers soon learned which side their bread was buttered on, and transferred in droves to the direct Toowoomba to Roma St buses, bypassing the change at Rosewood or Ipswich and the horrible all stations trundle on the train.

I'm quite happy with the current Toowoomba to Brisbane services, although would welcome a return of rail to Gatton or Helidon. I'd much rather such longer distance services were a separate tier like V/Line in Victoria.

[#Metro]

I use the Greyhound bus to Toowoomba several times a year. Nothing wrong with either the ticketing or comfort levels.  I'd HATE to see it caught up in the whole TransLink disaster.

HANDS OFF!

Not a reason for non-integration. Much easier to turn up, swipe and go, IMHO, especially if you don't have baggage.
I don't see how bringing one bus route to Toowoomba into the TL network will cause a catastrophe.

The last thing I want to do is extend the scope & geographical range of TransLink.  Its too big already, to the detriment of anyone outside the 20km from Brisbane radius who has the misfortune to be caught up in it.

I think it would be easier to connect if that one service was contracted by TL and brought into the TL network.

Greyhound is a long distance intercity-interstate coach operator.  A passenger cannot simply just jump on and pay at the door.  They have to either pre-book or pay at the coach counter on the day of travel.

But this can be changed (might not have to though). Passengers to the Sunshine Coast don't pre-book a seat on the QR train and that's long distance, intercity.

Also to mention, many services to Toowoomba continue on elsewhere to western/central Queensland, or down to Sydney via western NSW.

Why not just incorporate that section between Toowoomba-Brisbane. Wherever the bus continues after that is none of TL's concern. This is exactly the same system used on the Airtrain. Soon as the train leaves the QR network, it's airtrain fares. In fact, if we can integrate Airtrain, which is a profit making, PRIVATE COMMERCIAL company into the TL system, one that charges premium fare, and has passengers all carrying baggage from the airport, why why why can't we do the same for a bus/coach to Toowoomba?

[Arnz]

Don't quote me on this, but there are proposals going around of merging the Qconnect and TransLink systems.  The areas will retain their separate fare systems, but involves introducing/merging go card systems to the one card.  Enabling a user to use a QLD Go Card on any PT system in Qld covered under Qconnect or TransLink.  This proposal is only whispers in the offices at this stage.

While we're at it, perhaps people may advocate for QR Traveltrain services including the tilts be under the go card.  Same for all long distance coach services all over Qld.  Load 400 bucks or so and get to a destination under the one go card (despite going through different fare systems).  Tramtrain?

[somebody]

Don't quote me on this, but there are proposals going around of merging the Qconnect and TransLink systems.  The areas will retain their separate fare systems, but involves introducing/merging go card systems to the one card.  Enabling a user to use a QLD Go Card on any PT system in Qld covered under Qconnect or TransLink.  This proposal is only whispers in the offices at this stage.

While we're at it, perhaps people may advocate for QR Traveltrain services including the tilts be under the go card.  Load 400 bucks or so and get to a destination under the one go card (despie going through different fare systems).

I'll believe that one when I see it.

Go Card can't even cope with charging to the end of the bus trip, apparently, so I'd be surprised if it can handle two completely separate fare systems.

I could be wrong though.

[Arnz]

To Cubic's credit they did take ages to fix the anomaly of the AirTrain and TransLink fares.  Which in that case, better late than never.

[ozbob]

To be fare, the fare ripoff for the Airtrain was not a Cubic issue, but a legacy of the old ticketing system, contracts and so forth.  Now sorted though.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Airtrain is unoffically part of QR's network. They maintain the track/signaling/infrastructure/rollingstock and inreturn they get to keep it in a few years which all predated Translink. The same with the Nambour/Gold Coast.

You can't compare a established train line to a greyhound bus line as they are two different established modes. QR estalished that route and ran it prior to translink with frequency, fixed timetable and established stops. If you are going to compare the true modes then compare it to TravelTrain services which you have to prebook even if only to Nambour/Gympie. The Gympie express had to be prebooked by some as selected stations were bypassed back in the 90's.

TravelTrain will never be gocard enabled due to the fact its services are innercity express requiring seats to be prebooked and difficulties with class types/sleepers/distance etc.

[#Metro]

You can't compare a established train line to a greyhound bus line as they are two different established modes.

Are you saying that because the train has steel wheels and the bus has rubber tyres, ticketing, fares and network integration is not possible
between Brisbane and Toowoomba? I find that hard to believe.

QR estalished that route and ran it prior to translink with frequency, fixed timetable and established stops. If you are going to compare the true modes then compare it to TravelTrain services which you have to prebook even if only to Nambour/Gympie. The Gympie express had to be prebooked by some as selected stations were bypassed back in the 90's.

But no one pre-books to Caboolture, Glasshouse Mountains or Gympie North on normal QR services. The pre-booking is only there for baggage purposes.

Toronto manages to do it:

http://www.gotransit.com/publicroot/en/schedules/sysmap.aspx

Kitchener is 100 km from Toronto. The thin green lines are buses. They're all going to a Go-Card like system called Presto.
https://www.prestocard.ca/en/

The GO network of trains and buses extends all over the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA).

GO Trains and GO Buses serve a population of seven million in a 10,000-square-kilometre area extending from downtown Toronto to Kitchener-Waterloo in the north-west; Niagara Falls in the south-west; Orangeville, Barrie, and Beaverton to the north; Stouffville, Uxbridge, and Peterborough in the northeast; and Oshawa and Newcastle in the east. We connect with every municipal transit system in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton areas, including the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC).

Might rival TransLink!

https://www.prestocard.ca/en/

New to PRESTO?

PRESTO is a state-of-the-art electronic fare system currently available across the Greater Toronto and Hamilton transit regions and soon to be introduced on the OC Transpo network in Ottawa. Travel with ease, all with the tap of a small reloadable plastic card.

[SurfRail]

Long distance, for profit, passenger coaches have no interest in being part of an urban transit system.  Why the hell should they? 

They can run a service to Toowoomba on almost an hourly basis, with no government support.  More power to them.

Gympie North has 2 trains a day, which lose buckets of money.  That is no argument to close down the service, but it isn't a resounding endorsement for putting on more trains (at least north of Nambour).

[ozbob]

The GN services do reasonably well in terms of pax.  The frequency is a major turnoff though.

Coaches don't pay for the real cost of the road infrastructure, if they did they would be as costly to operate as the trains if not greater I would suggest.  This is the big illusion that doesn't get rail on the level playing field.

I have heard it said that public transport is subsidised $3 for every $1 of fares, the true subsidy of roads is 7-8$ for every $1 spent by road vehicles.  Not surprising when you factor in the real costs of trauma, congestion, environmental, infrastructure costs and so forth.

Smart jurisdictions are getting back onto rail for the obvious advantages, economic, social and environmental.

Queensland?   You want buy a loco cheap??  That is if you are not a heritage group, for you heritage group $70K for a DEL, if you are an overseas country you can have it for $10K.   

[Fares_Fair]

I have been told that low levels of patronage has been touted as a reason for the non-upgrade of the NCL.

It is an incredible statement given the single track line frequency and reliability issues, combined with freight and congestion and 3 and 1/2 hours trips, yadda yadda yadda.
Patronage should be decreasing given the sub-standard services to the high growth region.
Slower trains.
Shorter express legs to fit more trains on the track and so on.

Public transport oblivion is already on the Sunshine Coast line.

[ozbob]

It is a strange state where the rail operator actively churns out illogical logic ...  but hey, we are in Queensland.

You want to buy some freight wagons?  Cheap??

[SurfRail]

The GN services do reasonably well in terms of pax.  The frequency is a major turnoff though.

Coaches don't pay for the real cost of the road infrastructure, if they did they would be as costly to operate as the trains if not greater I would suggest.  This is the big illusion that doesn't get rail on the level playing field.

I have heard it said that public transport is subsidised $3 for every $1 of fares, the true subsidy of roads is 7-8$ for every $1 spent by road vehicles.  Not surprising when you factor in the real costs of trauma, congestion, environmental, infrastructure costs and so forth.

Smart jurisdictions are getting back onto rail for the obvious advantages, economic, social and environmental.

Queensland?   You want buy a loco cheap??  That is if you are not a heritage group, for you heritage group $70K for a DEL, if you are an overseas country you can have it for $10K.

Not arguing that at all Bob - but in the absence of a useful railway alignment up the range, the coach is always going to win on time and comfort.  Heavy vehicle charges also do get factored into ticket pricing for larger operators like Greyhound.  And, you will get no argument from me that the GN services are useless or should be scaled back.

In terms of making Greyhound runs a TransLink service, I just don't see the real need, since it would involve the government outlaying money to provide exactly the same service which is provided now for no government outlay.  It would also mean branding, vehicle standards and other things need to be imposed pursuant to a TransLink service contract, which I can't see Greyhound wanting any part of as they have their own nation-wide goodwill, recognition and branding.  There is also probably a very limited market for commuting over this sort of timeframe on a regular basis (Gold Coast is much closer, and the Sunshine Coast has a much bigger population base).

The suggestion is basically impractical on an operational and contractual level.  Solution without a problem.

Making Toowoomba part of the TransLink service area could be something to look at if the railhead goes past Laidley and a feeder bus is put on, but even then you would still need the train to be fast inbound of Ipswich (which means stopping at Darra and Indooroopilly only at most) to compete with the time achieveable with an express coach.

[ozbob]

Don't quote me on this, but there are proposals going around of merging the Qconnect and TransLink systems.  The areas will retain their separate fare systems, but involves introducing/merging go card systems to the one card.  Enabling a user to use a QLD Go Card on any PT system in Qld covered under Qconnect or TransLink.  This proposal is only whispers in the offices at this stage.

While we're at it, perhaps people may advocate for QR Traveltrain services including the tilts be under the go card.  Same for all long distance coach services all over Qld.  Load 400 bucks or so and get to a destination under the one go card (despite going through different fare systems).  Tramtrain?

Sorry Arnz, I pressed the quote tag ...   

I have heard similar.  I think it does make some sense eg Sunshine Coast Hinterland, Toowoomba, and the major coastal cities for a start.

I think it would make it a bit easier for folks but I guess costs versus benefits has to weighed up.  It may not be worth it.

[Arnz]

It is a strange state where the rail operator actively churns out illogical logic ...  but hey, we are in Queensland.

You want to buy some freight wagons?  Cheap??

Not to mention QR throwing away money from freight being carried on the NCL.  Does the state government really wants to had over the money made from track access fees and the shares made through their part ownership in QRNational to private road freight operators?

[ozbob]

@SurfRail  yes, no issue with the coaches for the range.  The rail line as is, is not a realistic option past Helidon for commuter transport.

Toowoomba could be TransLink-ed for the purposes of ticketing, but I am not suggesting Brisbane to Toowoomba as such.  Just the local buses, but whether the benefits outweigh the costs is a moot point I guess.

[ozbob]

The other thing is that QConnect fares have been increased by CPI, TransLink  well,  bit higher than that.  That might scare off the locals ...

[HappyTrainGuy]

Are you saying that because the train has steel wheels and the bus has rubber tyres, ticketing, fares and network integration is not possible between Brisbane and Toowoomba? I find that hard to believe.

No. I'm talking about how its conducted as a transport service. Compare it to TravelTrain. CountryLink. And not comparing it to a railway line on a city network. Last time I checked $40 gets you to Toowoomba on a bus, $40 gets you to Toowoomba on a train, $40 gets a bus to Casino and $40 gets you to Nambour on a TiltTrain. All have to be prebooked with a limited span of operating hours and frequency.

But no one pre-books to Caboolture, Glasshouse Mountains or Gympie North on normal QR services. The pre-booking is only there for baggage purposes.

What a load. No one prebooks on CityTrain services as there is frequency and a assigned stopping pattern. Passengers can prebook certain stations to notify staff who can offer assistance. TravelTrains have a few daily services and only stop Caboolture, Landsbrough*, Nambour and Gympie North. Passengers have to prebook so they know what stops the train has to stop at. They are timetabled to do so but if there are no bookings they will run express or if they stop the doors will remain locked (TTs) as passengers have found out in the past wanting to make a smoko break... or in a few cases of older rollingstock having the train leave without them. Caboolture outbound only accepts passengers boarding (If no one is schedulled to board the doors remain locked). Caboolture inbound only accepts passengers getting off. Same with Greyhound. Some routes have stops where the driver has to be notified otherwise its bypassed.
*TT only.

[#Metro]

Long distance, for profit, passenger coaches have no interest in being part of an urban transit system.  Why the hell should they?

Disagree. A private service will always run less service than what the community would expect. Generally, Private operators maximise profit, which is not the same as maximising social welfare. We know this all too well with the Airtrain! Only in a few cases would the service standard meet that of public expectations - SkyBus Melbourne may well fall into this category, as would taxi services and minibus/jeepneys in developing countries.

They can run a service to Toowoomba on almost an hourly basis, with no government support.  More power to them.

If the fares were cheaper, if there were more services to fill the gap, and if you could use GoCard/slash the booking requirement, more people would use it. I don't see how it is any different to airtrain services allowing normal TL passengers to use the train and then when the train enters the Airtrain alignment, becoming a private service. Translated to the Toowoomba bus situation, passengers travelling from Brisbane to Toowoomba would be under a TL service, but beyond that would be on a private coach service.

Gympie North has 2 trains a day, which lose buckets of money.  That is no argument to close down the service, but it isn't a resounding endorsement for putting on more trains (at least north of Nambour).

Can't really see how this is relevant. Even if this line is profitable, all you are doing is confirming the fact that it won't be a great cost at all to bring it into the TL network. You can't argue that it's profitable and then make a statement implying that it will make a huge loss like Gympie North - that's a contradiction and makes no sense. Many of us suspect route 199 is profitable - does that mean that we should have it privatised, no of course not.

The suggestion is basically impractical on an operational and contractual level.  Solution without a problem.

Disagree. If it can be done for a train (Airtrain) it can be done for a bus.

In terms of making Greyhound runs a TransLink service, I just don't see the real need, since it would involve the government outlaying money to provide exactly the same service which is provided now for no government outlay.  It would also mean branding, vehicle standards and other things need to be imposed pursuant to a TransLink service contract, which I can't see Greyhound wanting any part of as they have their own nation-wide goodwill, recognition and branding.  There is also probably a very limited market for commuting over this sort of timeframe on a regular basis (Gold Coast is much closer, and the Sunshine Coast has a much bigger population base).

Disagree. You'd be able to get more service, and given that BT doesn't follow TL branding, changes can be made. Service contracts are negotiable you know!

What a load. No one prebooks on CityTrain services as there is frequency and a assigned stopping pattern.

And yet the bus services to Toowoomba from Brisbane are more frequent than the non-prebooked bog standard QR Gympie North train??

[Arnz]

If the fares were cheaper, if there were more services to fill the gap, and if you could use GoCard/slash the booking requirement, more people would use it. I don't see how it is any different to airtrain services allowing normal TL passengers to use the train and then when the train enters the Airtrain alignment, becoming a private service. Translated to the Toowoomba bus situation, passengers travelling from Brisbane to Toowoomba would be under a TL service, but beyond that would be on a private coach service.

You can argue the same thing for ALL transport operators in Queensland, including long distance coach companies AND QR Traveltrain.  Whether it's sustainable is a different question.

Even if the rumours of the proposed merging of the QConnect and TransLink Go Card systems into one ever happens, someone may argue that a passenger should go from Roma Street to a Rockhampton suburb on the ONE GO CARD by using the QLD Go Card on the Tilt Train then using it on the local bus to the suburb.  Or Even Gold Coast to Dalby via Toowoomba on one of the Long Distance Coach Operators. 

They do have the technology to recognise different fare systems over Queensland (as they did for Airtrain, although it took a while to fix the fare anomaly up).  So if it works for Airtrain, why not argue for this to be extended all over Queensland, not that I'm for or against it. 

[#Metro]

You can argue the same thing for ALL transport operators in Queensland, including long distance coach companies AND QR Traveltrain.  Whether it's sustainable is a different question.

How is this relevant to the debate? You put a Go Card reader on the bus or you'd have a portable one held by the driver. Won't cost much. For everywhere else over QLD, you wouldn't need to do this because they have ticket systems and they're obviously not in the SE corner. 

Even if the rumours of the proposed merging of the QConnect and TransLink Go Card systems into one ever happens, someone may argue that a passenger should go from Roma Street to a Rockhampton suburb on the ONE GO CARD by using the QLD Go Card on the Tilt Train then using it on the local bus to the suburb.  Or Even Gold Coast to Dalby via Toowoomba on one of the Long Distance Coach Operators.

Relevance???

For the record, Toronto, Ontario, Canada has a 10, 000 square kilometre area which they're integrating with Presto Card (see GO Transit Links in this thread) and that card is also being rolled out in a totally different province in Ottawa...

They do have the technology to recognise different fare systems over Queensland (as they did for Airtrain, although it took a while to fix the fare anomaly up).  So if it works for Airtrain, why not argue for this to be extended all over Queensland, not that I'm for or against it. 

Are you trying to say that the Toowomba-Brisbane run should not be incorporated into the TransLink system because it would unleash a catastrophic pent up demand for public transport across the entire state of queensland that would overwhelm the state government and cost billions and billions to implement? Is that right?

People can argue for or against a smart card in their region whether or not the run between Toowoomba and Brisbane is incorporated into TL or not, anyway.