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Author Topic: Why not expand Tilt services?  (Read 3026 times)

Offline glossyblack

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Why not expand Tilt services?
« on: April 09, 2009, 04:05:06 PM »
It's about time QR (and Anna) thought about more tilt trains and services,like RTT extended to the Gold Coast - at least one service a day.
Toowoomba - Brisbane with a diesel TT would also be nice, I presume there  are not loading gauge problems as the Westy uses the line and they are the same as Sunlander cars.
Come on Anna, cough up with some bucks for some more Tilters!!! After all, a couple of spares, both spark and smoke would not leave the Tilt fleet looking like an overworked skeleton.

Offline stephenk

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2009, 05:56:17 PM »
Just what the world needs- more under utilised and heavily subsidised by the taxpayer tilt trains!

It would be pointless running them to the Gold Coast once a day. Do you think anyone would wait around specifically for a tilt train, when there is a normal train every 30mins?
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2007 - 7tph
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2010 - 4tph
* departures from Central between 16:30 and 17:30.

rob2144

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2009, 07:41:19 AM »
I think a heavily upgraded service to Toowoomba is needed now, the Warrego Hwy has had it too good for a long time and now is starting to get quite congested.

Offline mufreight

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2009, 08:46:20 AM »
For services to Toowoomba a good start would be the construction of new tunnel through the Little Liverpool range and electrify the line initally to Gatton then to Helidon with a return to the past with the provision of a co-ordinated bus service to Toowoomba from the end of the electrification.

A couple of IMU sets dedicated to this service could provide a service equivalent to that presently provided for Nambour and the new tunnel would shorten transit times not only for commuters but make a significant reduction in transit times for freight services (mostly coal and grain)

The IMU or ICE sets could run at 140kph making them more than time competitive with the private car for the trip.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 08:50:48 AM by mufreight »

Offline ozbob

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2009, 09:49:45 AM »
http://envirofuel.com.au/2007/10/12/bombardier-hybrid-train-enters-service-in-france/

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Bombardier hybrid train enters service in France
Posted on 12 October 2007 by Luke Hallam

A new Bombardier train has entered service in France. While not technically a hybrid its dual-mode (electrical and diesel) and dual-voltage (1500 and 25000 V) technology enables the train, known as a Hybrid AGC, to cross the entire French railway network and to access electricity from any available source. This will result in energy savings and reduced CO2 emissions, as well as negating infrastructure constraints and the need for passengers to change trains.

Bombardier Hybrid AGC

The Hybrid AGC also dovetails with the sustainable-mobility agenda, enabling operators to streamline vehicle management, enhance service quality, and protect the environment. The latest variant in the AGC range is at the cutting edge of railroad technology. As of today, 21 French regions have ordered and/or operate 698 AGC regional express trains.

French National Railways will be operating the Hybrid AGC on Champagne-Ardenne lines between Paris - Troyes - Culmont and between Culmont - Saint-Didier - Vitry.


http://www.ecogeek.org/images/image/firsthybridtrain.jpg

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A hybrid electric train built by Bombardier just took its inaugural trip in France. Diesel locomotives have always been a kind of hybrid -- their diesel engines charge batteries which power a gigantic electric motor. But this new train can run on electric power from any source available (not just the engine.) The trains will be charged with grid power, and will produce roughly 20% less CO2 than non-hybrid versions.

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1045/

--> Bombardier
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 10:39:02 AM by ozbob »
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2009, 09:57:57 AM »
These hybrids could  run under the wire to Rosewood and then run under own power to Gatton and Helidon.

 :o
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 10:37:40 AM by ozbob »
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Offline mufreight

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2009, 01:59:00 PM »
Tilt train operation to Toowoomba is barly justifiable, they have a top in service speed of 160kph and IMU sets on good track could be geared run to 140kph.

The track alignment between Helidon and Ipswich with the exception of the section through the Little Liverpool range could be upgraded to the required standard and a new tunnel through the range would reduce transit times not only for passenger services but also for the freight (currently mostly coal and grain traffic) operations.

A return to a co-ordinated electric service from Helidon would be more than time and cost competitive with the use of a car from Toowoomba to Brisbane

Offline Arnz

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2009, 03:15:19 PM »
Best thing is to co-ordinate the Train/Bus at Helidon with the appropriate re-alignment works west of Grandchester, like the old days.  The Helidon-Toowoomba bus service would fall under TransLink, but local Toowoomba bus services are currently under Qconnect. (Like the Gympie North bus arrangement, which that is TransLink, the local Gympie services are Qconnect).

<pipedream>
TBH, After the NCL gets their track upgrades and increase of off-peak services (likely to be operated by older IMU100/120s with IMU160s thrown in).

I'd initially re-allocate the ICEs to the Western Line (there are 8x power pairs, 4 trailer cars = 2x 6-car ICE, 2x 4-car ICE).  One 1x 6-car ICE would still remain to do the daily Gympie service, whilst the rest are working the Gatton/Helidon runs under this proposal.
</pipedream>
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

Offline mufreight

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2009, 08:19:49 PM »
One wonders will the new Transport Minister take any notice of this suggestion to get some of the road traffic off the Warrigo highway?

Offline glossyblack

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2009, 06:13:41 PM »
It seems that there's a bit of a difference of views on the TT.
At least the Minister should consider some Victorian style V/locity railcar sets; after all there's nothing to do but put 'em into service.

Offline O_128

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2009, 10:32:02 PM »
the hybrid train is a good idea why not run them to buedesert aswell
"Where else but Queensland?"

Offline stephenk

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2009, 08:44:57 PM »
the hybrid train is a good idea why not run them to buedesert aswell

There is a slight problem with running regular passenger trains to Beaudesert as the track capacity on the dual gauge track from Salisbury to Roma Street is limited and shared with freight services and Gold Coast expresses.

Again, if passenger services were run from Toowoomba, they would have to be timetabled so as to not create large gaps between Ipswich Line services.
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2007 - 7tph
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2010 - 4tph
* departures from Central between 16:30 and 17:30.

Offline ButFli

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2009, 07:32:52 AM »
the hybrid train is a good idea why not run them to buedesert aswell

There is a slight problem with running regular passenger trains to Beaudesert as the track capacity on the dual gauge track from Salisbury to Roma Street is limited and shared with freight services and Gold Coast expresses.

Again, if passenger services were run from Toowoomba, they would have to be timetabled so as to not create large gaps between Ipswich Line services.
1) I think stephenk wanted to run the Beudesert services on the Beudesert branch. Running it on the standard guage interstate line would be rather pointless because it doesn't pass through Beudesert. That mean there won't be capacity issues between Salisbury and Roma St though.

2) Why would a Toowoomba service have any effect on Ipswich line services? Surely the two would be run separately, with the Toowoomba trains stopping at Corinda and Ipswich like the Westlander (maybe).

Offline stephenk

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2009, 08:27:06 PM »

1) I think stephenk wanted to run the Beudesert services on the Beudesert branch. Running it on the standard guage interstate line would be rather pointless because it doesn't pass through Beudesert. That mean there won't be capacity issues between Salisbury and Roma St though.
Sorry my mistake, so you would want to use the mothballed Beaudesert Line instead?
I cannot see running rail services to a small country town financially justifiable.
With the current track layouts, there is limited to no track capacity between Bethania and Roma Street for running services to Beaudesert, particularly during the peaks. 
File Beaudesert rail services under train spotter fantasy.

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2) Why would a Toowoomba service have any effect on Ipswich line services? Surely the two would be run separately, with the Toowoomba trains stopping at Corinda and Ipswich like the Westlander (maybe).
I would think that Toowoomba services would be more financially justifiable than Beaudesert services. However, as the Toowoomba services would run express, they would eat a lot of track capacity on the two track section between Ipswich and Corinda. This wouldn't be a problem at current 30 min off-peak Ipswich Line frequency. But during the peaks, and future 15min off-peak frequency, then there would be issues with providing paths for Toowoomba trains.
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2007 - 7tph
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2010 - 4tph
* departures from Central between 16:30 and 17:30.

Offline ButFli

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2009, 09:12:17 PM »
Sorry my mistake, so you would want to use the mothballed Beaudesert Line instead?
I cannot see running rail services to a small country town financially justifiable.
With the current track layouts, there is limited to no track capacity between Bethania and Roma Street for running services to Beaudesert, particularly during the peaks. 
File Beaudesert rail services under train spotter fantasy.
I don't want to use anything. I was just pointing out a misinterpretation.

In future if Beaudesert grows enough to justify a commuter rail service it would be better off going down the standard gauge corridor (by that time probably dual gauged) and constructing a short branch into Beaudesert. Closed branch lines should stay closed.

Offline O_128

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2009, 06:44:39 AM »
Butfli obviously you are behind current projected timeliness for upgrades then. This is  a lien that should be built now for future growth.The gold coast line had to be duplicated because of this and the springfield line should really be open now
"Where else but Queensland?"

Offline ButFli

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2009, 07:33:56 PM »
I have to say I was not aware of any upgrade timeline for Beaudesert trains. Please enlighten me.

Offline O_128

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2009, 12:11:12 AM »
no iwas saing you sound like the planners infrastructure is needed now not on 10 years
"Where else but Queensland?"

Offline ButFli

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2009, 08:04:47 PM »
The infrastructure is needed everywhere "now not in 10 years". There are limited resources so you can't build a train line to everywhere. There are many places that require a train service before Beaudesert does. 

Offline mufreight

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2009, 09:53:40 AM »
The existing alignment to Beaudesert is too indirect to be able to provide a service comparable to bus in terms of transit time and operating costs.
A far better option would be an entirely new line to Beaudesert following the existing standard gauge corridor (as a seperate electrified) lineas far as Allenview then through Gleneagle to Beaudesert would provide a more direct and faster route and be through areas of greater population growth.
The government has expressed its intention to provide a ng line for freight to Bromelton by dual gauging the existing SG line, again a better option would be that a seperate double track ng line be provided parallel to the SG line as far as Bromelton with a single track line for passenger services from Bromelton to Beaudesert.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 09:40:07 AM by mufreight »

Offline ButFli

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Re: Why not expand Tilt services?
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2009, 10:47:22 AM »
The government has expressed its intention to provide a ng line for freight to Bromelton by dual gauging the existing SG line, again a better option would be that a seperate double track ng line be provided parallel to the SG line as far as Bromelton with a single track line for passenger services from Bromelton to Beaudesert.
The Government plan is silly. At the very least they need to construct the narrow gauge as a separate, parallel line. What they should do is dual-gauge the existing line and build another narrow gauge (or hopefully dual gauge) road next to it.

 

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