Cross River Rail Project

[#Metro]

Is it worth having a bus stop and turnaround for peak hour buses that come from Yeronga?

Or leave that for when Yeronga is upgraded?

Also a space for Uber etc pickups?

[STB]

There could be pros and cons with building full length.

Obviously cheaper and less disruptive to do it in one hit.

But if you build it early then you are stuck having to clean the whole lot, and could lead to passenger confusion with respect to where a current 6 car set will stop.

Presumably with the underground stations they'll be able to put in temporary walls till 9 car sets become routine.

I don't think that will be much of an issue IMHO.  That can be easily mitigated through temporary signage eg: 6 car stopping point, painted signage on the platform, and announcements by station staff.

[STB]

^ thanks.  Certainly looks like set up for future 9 car train length.

On this page states, "165m long island platform with future provision for extending to nine-car trains"

https://crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/stations-routes/exhibition-station/

Also says will be "open all year round. 365 days". Does anyone know how this is faciliated during Ekka for commuters/ regular passengers when the station entrance is within the showgrounds and you don't have a Ekka ticket?

I just got off the phone with surprisingly an Engineer working on that project and he advised me that there will be two entrances/exits, one to O'Connell Tce and one to Gregory Tce, and that one of those entrances will be closed off on a temporary basis during the Ekka period where the only way to access it is via an Ekka ticket, however the other entrance/exit will remain open 24/7 everyday of the year.  It's expected that QR will place signage indicating the changed ped movements during the Ekka.

Edit: Can I just mention how easy it was to be transferred from the customer information line to an actual Engineer working on the project, made communication so much easier compared to trying to talk to the TL Planners where by you've got to jump through several hoops to even attempt it and even then it's highly unlikely you'll get to speak to an actual Planner, more likely ending up with a simple 'Thank you for your feedback, it will be considered'.  Seriously, reminded me what it was like in the early days of TL being around, no mucking about, if you wanted to speak to an actual Planner from TL, all you had to do was ring the customer service line and you'll get transferred, or you can ask for a callback and the actual Planner will contact you and not a customer service officer who wouldn't have a clue about the technicalities of what you are trying to explain.

What number did you ring??? Theres so many details I'd like to find out from them... :O

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Just the regular contact number found on the Cross River Rail website.  Said I had some general recommendations for the upgraded stations, and that I was simply a member of the public, he then put me through to an Engineer from the project, who then went off to check what I said to him (in regards to the lifts and accessiblity plans for the various stations), and then said Engineer contacted me about 20mins later with an answer.  During that initial moment, I was able to quickly ask him about the Exhibition station set up which he was able to respond to straight away.

[timh]

That rail corridor is really tight. It's a shame because there's clearly no way to retrofit a 4th track in there without major resumptions.

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[BrizCommuter]

The lack of provision for a 4th track is highly concerning. Could it be possible to have 4 tracks but just 2 platforms at most stops where expresses don't need to stop?

[nathandavid88]

^^ You would still have the issue that the corridor looks too narrow in areas to accommodate a four track without requiring major property resumptions.

[verbatim9]

This was taken yesterday about a week after the Roma Street pedestrian overpass was closed. It should also be mentioned that the only pedestrian crossing connecting George Street to Roma Street Station at Herschel St does not have a countdown timer. The pavement along that section is also not consistent. This 'desire' path will continue to be dangerous in order for people to make train times.

Edit: I can't figure out how to embed the tweet. Essentially people are now crossing two roads following under the general path of the now closed pedestrian overpass.

https://twitter.com/officialburgo/status/1219146342666137601

[Admin: when posting tweet just the url without " ?s=21 or variants of that "  No BBC code is needed, it is deprecated.  Thanks]

Yeah pedestrians and cyclists need to cross at Roma Street where Parkland Boulevard meets. The stop light phase is very slow at that intersection. Waiting times can be long for pedestrians and cyclists to cross Roma Street at that intersection. I had mentioned this at the beginning of last year in the Council's pedestrian and cycling safety and priority iniative. Nothing has been improved in this area.

Sent from my moto g(6) plus using Tapatalk

I also wrote to Council for a solution when the Busway is closed as there will be extra bus traffic along Roma Street sharing space with cyclists. They replied it's not our issue. Cross River Rail is in control of that corridor during the project.

To Council Planning,

In relation Cross River Rail and the redevelopment of the Roma St precinct; A segregated twoway cycleway should be built on the full length of Roma Street from Countess St with a floating bus stop outside Police HQ. It can connect with the George St cycle way that can continue to QUT and also continue to the Pullman hotel on the Court side along Roma Street. This would provide traffic calming and improved safety for pedestrians and cyclists. Plus discourage unnecessary private vehicle movements in the area minimising local air and noise pollution plus traffic congestion.

I hope this idea can be worked in with Council's long term plan to provide safe and active transport solutions in the area.

Regards,

Reply from Council asking me to contact the Cross River Authority for a solution

Thank you for contacting Brisbane City Council providing feedback regarding the Cross River Rail project.

I appreciate the time you have taken to forward your suggestion.

The Cross River Rail project team is the best authority for managing enquiries about this work.

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ROMA STREET CHANGES

The pedestrian bridge across Roma Street is now closed and a new signal crossing will soon be established. Until then, pedestrians are urged to follow signs and use alternative crossings at Makerston Street or Parkland Boulevard for safe access to and from Roma Street station. 
More info: http://bit.ly/2TLFoiv

[nathandavid88]

I feel they really should have got the traffic lights sorted before closing the pedestrian bridge. The scatter crossings in Albert Street were added well in advance of works, surely they could have done the same here.

[burgo]

I'm struggling to think where this proposed signalled crossing will be??

[verbatim9]

I'm struggling to think where this proposed signalled crossing will be??

The map clearly shows two new crossings

[Gazza]

I'm struggling to think where this proposed signalled crossing will be??

The map clearly shows two existing crossings

Fixed

https://www.google.com/maps/search/roma+st/@-27.4666227,153.0188363,68m/data=!3m1!1e3

https://www.google.com/maps/search/roma+st/@-27.467031,153.0205729,67m/data=!3m1!1e3

[burgo]

Yes, the map shows the two existing crossings. It would be hard to implementing a crossing in the desire path without disrupting traffic too badly. I've highlighted in this picture https://imgur.com/a/5P1v5pr the current desire paths in red, and my thouught of where the temporary crossing could go.

[James]

I don't see why you couldn't put a pedestrian crossing across Herschel Street to the little island between George, Herschel and Roma Sts, and a crossing from that island to Roma Street?

You would have to reduce some lane lengths, particularly on the Roma Street eastbound approach, and likely extend the green phase given to vehicles turning right from Herschel St into Roma St (to give sufficient time for pedestrians to cross Roma St), but beyond that I see no issue. You'll need to pour a little concrete and add a few signals, but nothing too major.

I think the reason they haven't done it just yet is because they are yet to demolish the footbridge - and demolition works will definitely shut down the area surrounding it (including peak jaywalking territory) for a few months.

The lazy solution would be to simply whack up fencing along that spacious median & along the southern side of Roma Street, but I imagine that can't happen until the footbridge is fully demolished anyway.

[BrizCommuter]

^^ You would still have the issue that the corridor looks too narrow in areas to accommodate a four track without requiring major property resumptions.

Resume properties then, otherwise CRR will be left with a permanent bottleneck.

[red dragin]

So, starting from the corner of Herschel/George (bottom of the escalator), guestimating the pathway to underneath the Heritage building, in the subway.

~ 237m - to be closed overbridge
~ 255m - via George to Makerston St/Roma St across to Entrance
~ 388m - up behind the law courts, across Roma St, along Transit centre to entrance

So, we are discussing having to walk an extra 18 metres if I understand correctly?

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Roma St overpass closed as part of Cross River Rail, but concerns on commuter jaywalking

The closure of an important pedestrian link in Brisbane's CBD has left commuters taking the long way round or making a dangerous dash, with at least one near-miss between a car and pedestrian so far.

PEDESTRIANS are dicing with death across an "extremely dangerous" CBD street after a popular footbridge was closed as part of Cross River Rail works.

Public transport advocates claim they've noticed a spike in the number of jaywalkers across Herschel St and Roma St following the closure of the pedestrian bridge linking the Transit Centre with the Supreme Courts on January 13th.

The Courier-Mail visited the site on Friday and spotted over 10 jaywalkers in the immediate surrounds of the bridge in less than five minutes.

The pedestrian link, which has closed to make way for the construction of Cross River Rail's underground platforms at Roma St Station, was popular with commuters going to and from nearby offices.

No replacement pedestrian crossing has yet been installed, despite promises by the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority for new lights at street-level.

Public transport advocate Jackson Burgess, who frequently walks through the area for work, described the practice as "extremely dangerous" and said he'd already witnessed a near-miss between a jaywalking pedestrian and a car.

"It will only be a matter of time before a more serious accident occurs," Mr Burgess said.

He said he first noticed an uptick in jaywalking after the bridge was closed, especially in peak hour, when he said hundreds would flood across the road every hour.

"The overpass was there for a reason," Mr Burgess said.

"Lights should have been built unless the overpass demolition has to be done first," he said.

"From the groundworks they appear to be doing, the demolition of the overpass wouldn't have prevented them constructing the crossing prior to closing the overpass."

Scramble crossings were installed in late 2018 by Brisbane City Council near Cross River Rail's other CBD station on Albert St.

The Cross River Rail website states that the authority will install "additional signalised pedestrian crossings at the intersection of Roma and Herschel streets," however does not state when construction would commence.

In response to a request for comment, a Cross River Rail spokeswoman said new signalised pedestrian crossings would open in March.
"Signage has been installed all around the area to direct pedestrians to the two signalised crossings of Roma Street," the spokeswoman said.

"Temporary fencing is being installed along Roma Street on the Brisbane Transit Centre side to safely direct pedestrians to the two signalled crossings."

Paper

Couriermail 25th January 2020 page 22

It's cross-road rail fail

[Gazza]

Why are they calling it Jaywalking?
Its more than 20m from a crossing so its Ok.

Also...in the absence of lights, why isn't there a traffic controller?

[Cleveland Line]

So, starting from the corner of Herschel/George (bottom of the escalator), guestimating the pathway to underneath the Heritage building, in the subway.

~ 237m - to be closed overbridge
~ 255m - via George to Makerston St/Roma St across to Entrance
~ 388m - up behind the law courts, across Roma St, along Transit centre to entrance

So, we are discussing having to walk an extra 18 metres if I understand correctly?

It's not the 18 metres. It's the three sets of traffic lights and indirect route. It does nothing to positively encourage the safe route making the unsafe route for people more attractive.

[red dragin]

A bit of fencing discourages the unsafe route.

[City Designer]

Putting in fencing to stop a pedestrian link is defeatism at its finest. Pedestrians know the shortest path. Design for it.

[AnonymouslyBad]

A bit of fencing discourages the unsafe route.

Do you mean on-road fencing? That will take away the unsafe part. 

Roma St is not a freeway. It's a piece of city road outside a very busy train station, that they're working to make an even busier train station.
If cars are going through at speed and then you're asking pedestrians to wait at 3 sets of lights, it's not the pedestrians who are wrong, it's your design.

[red dragin]

Is this set up temporary or long term, do we know?

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Asbestos fears at Brisbane CBD site


These parts are allegedly covered in asbestos and have been left in the open at a Cross River Rail demolition site on Albert St in Brisbane's CBD.

Workers, pedestrians and residents have allegedly been exposed to asbestos on a Cross River Rail demolition site in the middle of the Brisbane CBD.

PEOPLE have been warned to avoid one of Brisbane's busiest streets amid allegations workers, pedestrians and residents have been exposed to asbestos on a Cross River Rail demolition site.

Queensland's powerful construction union has demanded urgent intervention by the Palaszczuk Government, claiming a cavalier approach by the contractor on the Albert St building was endangering lives.

"Personally, I avoid walking around there unless me and my team are suitably attired," CFMEU assistant state secretary Jade Ingham said. "People should avoid the area – that's my view."

The union and the Government have been at loggerheads over wages and conditions since contracts were signed to build the $5.4 billion underground train link.

The Cross River Rail Delivery Authority has insisted the public is safe and all asbestos had been disposed of by licensed professionals.

"As work proceeds, unexpected finds of asbestos can occur, which is not uncommon in old buildings," a CRRDA spokeswoman said.

"Removal of materials containing asbestos has been done by a licensed subcontractor according to a safe removal plan, which has been reviewed and approved by Worksafe Queensland."

However, the CFMEU has obtained pictures of lift brakes (above), identified in an expert report as being riddled with asbestos, lying exposed on the site, which is ringed by apartment buildings and abuts a busy street. Video shows workers employed by the contractor shifting the exposed lift parts with heavy equipment.

Mr Ingham insisted the footage clearly demonstrated unlicensed workers had been required to handle asbestos and authorities had taken issue with the contractor on a number of occasions. He blamed the cut-price contract struck by the Palaszczuk Government.

"The state need to urgently intervene and the safety regular needs to have a serious intervention to give workers and members of the public peace of mind that they are not going to be exposed to this deadly product," he said.

"If they don't, there will be blood on their hands."

However, the CRRDA spokeswoman said authorities had been closely monitoring the demolition site and at no stagerequired work to stop.

"In addition, air quality monitoring in accordance with Australian standards, including for asbestos removal, has been ongoing at the site."

[red dragin]

Those lift brakes operated for years, dropping asbestos dust into the shaft, then being moved around and out of the shaft by the air as the lift moved, but only now, sitting on the ground are they dangerous 

I've been exposed to plenty of asbestos as a kid growing up in a mechanics workshop. We've all been exposed by train, truck and car brakes until asbestos usage was banned.

[kram0]

This was taken yesterday about a week after the Roma Street pedestrian overpass was closed. It should also be mentioned that the only pedestrian crossing connecting George Street to Roma Street Station at Herschel St does not have a countdown timer. The pavement along that section is also not consistent. This 'desire' path will continue to be dangerous in order for people to make train times.

From memory, there are supposed to be major alterations to occur to the Roma Street/George Street/Herschel Street intersections that would improve the pedestrian crossing situations in that area. Why these have not yet been implemented I'm not certain - possibly because they aren't possible during the current demolition phase maybe?

In other news, I notice that a PDF is out showing the proposed changes for Fairfield Station. Here are some JPEGs of the 2 page PDF. Construction is scheduled for mid-year.

Looks like a huge improvement.

Is this essentially a demolition and rebuild with full height/length platforms? if so, I assume it will be the same for all station upgrades south to Salisbury?

[timh]

Is this essentially a demolition and rebuild with full height/length platforms? if so, I assume it will be the same for all station upgrades south to Salisbury?

Yes, but with three platforms at every station Salisbury-Dutton park.

On a side note, personally I think that's unnecessary. 3 platforms at Salisbury to facilitate interchange, sure (although it should be 4). In my opinion, rather than putting in 3 platforms at the other stations (where the gold coast trains don't stop), use the extra room to put in a 4th track. Obviously the corridor isn't wide enough for 4 tracks all the way but if you chuck in 4 tracks at every station surely that could provide enough passing loop capacity to provide additional GC line capacity?

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ShannonMM9/status/1224236352381734912

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Cross River Rail: The multibillion-dollar project no one knows about

It's the multibillion-dollar project poised to revolutionise travel throughout southeast Queensland, but poll figures show most people don't know what it is, where it will operate or even that the project will require tunneling beneath the Brisbane River.

IT'S the multibillion-dollar project poised to revolutionise public transport travel throughout southeast Queensland.

However, most people don't know what Cross River Rail is, where it will operate or even that the project will require tunneling beneath the Brisbane River to provide new inner-city stations.

The lack of public awareness about the Palaszczuk Government's signature infrastructure project has been exposed in a new poll of Brisbane and Gold Coast residents conducted for The Courier-Mail.

Undertaken by YouGov, the poll has revealed 55 per cent of residents have heard of the 10.2 kilometre rail link but don't know what it will do. A further one in five had never heard of the project.

The findings come despite Cross River Rail being caught up in Deputy Premier Jackie Trad's integrity crisis and comes amid mounting concern that the project will significantly blow its $5.4 billion.

Significant earthworks on the project, which will link Dutton Park to Bowen Hills and include four new underground stations when completed in 2026, have begun at Woolloongabba along with demolition in Brisbane's city centre at Albert and Roma streets. The poll shows only 44 per cent of people knew Cross River Rail would require tunnels with 12 per cent believing it required a bridge to be built.

Presented with alternative maps, just 21 per cent of respondents named the correct Cross River Rail route. However, while most people were ambivalent about the project's potential, very few were opposed to its construction.

Gold Coast residents were most uncertain with 62 neither supporting or opposing the project while support was strongest among residents who lived along the route.

Shown were the rail link would snake through Brisbane suburbs and provide new stations, 50 per cent of people voiced their support for the project however 41 per cent remained undecided.

Cross River Rail Minister Kate Jones said the project was vital and the polling showed Queenslanders supported it when aware of its many benefits.

"We have to build this project to avoid a bottleneck in 2030," she said. "It's great to see Queenslanders getting on board - they understand how critical this infrastructure is to keep our city moving.

"Cross River Rail allows us to run more trains more often across the whole of southeast Queensland. We expect that with Cross River Rail in place, an extra 47,000 people will choose rail instead of road by 2036."

" ... "Cross River Rail allows us to run more trains more often across the whole of southeast Queensland ... " 

providing the rest of the network is brought up to speed ...

[Gazza]

"The Merivale Bridge and the Fortitude Valley tunnels will reach capacity by 2030, with all train slots taken, so construction is starting now on Cross River Rail"
"Cross River Rail is a new tunnel from Dutton park to Bowen Hills, passing through Wooloongabba and the CBD"
"This new tunnel will provide a 50% increase in the number of train slots through the city, allowing more trains to be scheduled, and providing capacity for new train lines to feed in from outer areas"

You're welcome Government PR department

[aldonius]

I'm not sure exactly what the state government rules are for when they can stop spending state money on advertising what they're doing before the election period... But surely there will be some TV ads about CRR once the Council elections are done.

[nathandavid88]

"The Merivale Bridge and the Fortitude Valley tunnels will reach capacity by 2030, with all train slots taken, so construction is starting now on Cross River Rail"
"Cross River Rail is a new tunnel from Dutton park to Bowen Hills, passing through Wooloongabba and the CBD"
"This new tunnel will provide a 50% increase in the number of train slots through the city, allowing more trains to be scheduled, and providing capacity for new train lines to feed in from outer areas"

You're welcome Government PR department

Would the general public understand what a "train slot" is? We're talking about people whose extent of train knowledge might be only that the round button with the green light opens the doors.

[Gazza]

Its a term i made up because people know what a landing slot is at an airport

[timh]

Its a term i made up because people know what a landing slot is at an airport

I think that would be a stretch too tbh.

As I said in a previous thread, most regular people I speak to don't know the difference between Brisbane Metro and cross River rail, if they can even name them

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[SurfRail]

So I was having a think about how Exhibition might work if CRR is eventually linked to a Trouts Rd line.  My thinking is something like this.

For passenger facing purposes, there are basically 4 groups of lines, which you could colour code the way we do now but in a more consistent way (eg all services on each sector are green, red, orange and blue).

1. Ipswich/Rosewood and Springfield (Ripley) - Mains - slew over onto the subs after Bowen Hills - Airport and Shorncliffe.
2. Salisbury (Flagstone) and Cleveland - Subs - Ferny Grove and Doomben.
3. Kippa-Ring/Caboolture/Sunshine Coast - Trouts Rd - CRR - southern Beenleigh and Gold Coast.
4. Strathpine all stations to Albion on the mains, then Exhibition, then Roma Street P10. 

Issues:
- Roma St needs some thought but it should be possible to create 2 platform faces around P10 and still allow long distance services to operate from the station in some fashion.
- Doomben line runs on the group 1 tracks from Bowen Hills to Eagle Junction and there is a flat cross just after Ferny Grove flyover.  This should be manageable.
- Dutton Park to Salisbury - Flagstone trains running in between expresses going south of Salisbury on the existing route.  This is an issue for CRR even now so nothing new, and only gets fixed with full on quad on the surface or further tunnelling from say Dutton Park to Yeerongpilly like CRR Mk 1.
- Still end up with clashes at the following locations
-- Strathpine (getting all the trains from north of here into Trouts Rd without fouling everything).
-- Milton between express and all stations trains (this is the big one).
-- Park Road between Cleveland and Salisbury (Flagstone) trains (I am not too concerned about this one).
-- Eagle Junction between Doomben and Airport/Shorncliffe trains, and Airport junction between Airport and Shorncliffe trains.  (I am not too concerned about this one.)

[kram0]

The reality is the government need to stop f%&king about and listen to the experts such as David Bannister and make changes to the project as outlined. This project will end up costing closer to $8 billion + and to adopt the recommended changes would be somewhere in the vicinity of $400-500m which is a small price to pay to get it right.

The 2018 design had a cut and cover tunnel from the subs south of Albion to Exhibition without conflicting the other lines. It was a major mistake taking this out of the project for future proofing. I also think Airport-GC services should remain a pair, as the two very much work together.

CRR is a good project, but I feel they are cutting corners just to save a few dollars and save political face. A BS decision.

[Gazza]

I dunno. I think once G link reaches Coolongatta the airport pairing will become a lot less relevant.

[kram0]

I dunno. I think once G link reaches Coolongatta the airport pairing will become a lot less relevant.

I disagree as the two destinations make the perfect sense plus people don't want the hassle of changing trains. Not only that, the heavy rail should be extended to the GC AIRPORT (as is planned) as the tram will take much longer and make it not that appealing so people will drive/Uber etc.

[timh]

I liked David Bannister's idea in his recent blog articles about CRR re: Exhibition post NWTC. His idea would be to reconfigure Eagle Junction to remove flat junctions and route the Doomben line via exhibition

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[ozbob]

No great surprise this little vignette. We have always known the cost was >> than the touted $5.4 billion ...

Couriermail --> George St Beat: Rumour puts Cross River Rail project off the rails by around $7b

ALL aboard for what shapes, according to some in the know, as a gargantuan financial train wreck, as rumours circulating along George St have revealed the whole-of-project cost for Cross River Rail, and it's a whopper.

ALL aboard for what shapes, according to some in the know, as a gargantuan financial train wreck.

The scuttlebutt along George St is that a brief has landed in the Cabinet bags of Palaszczuk Government ministers laying out the whole-of-project cost for Cross River Rail.

And the figure being bandied about – unconfirmed, of course, because these things are top secret – is ... wait for it ... a whopping $12 billion.

That would be some blowout given the 10.2km rail link was priced at $5.4 billion.

Apparently it's got something to do with upgrades to existing train stations.

And there's suggestions only the New Generation Rollingstock – those Indian-made models that Labor doesn't much like – are the only trains capable of handling Cross River Rail's incline.

No wonder left-wing union foot stamping for a better wage deal is falling on deaf ears.

Add in the extra cost of trains, and necessary track improvements on the network ... is $12 Billion going to cover it?

[SurfRail]

There's a reason Des' rantings don't appear on the front page