Cross River Rail Project

[brissypete]

If governments don't want to release a document it either doesn't exist or makes them look bad. No politician will withhold a document that makes them look good.

There's a great Yes Prime Minister episode about the previous PM's memoirs, unfavourable chapters are tried to be blocked and the favourable ones are leaked.

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk

[ozbob]

7 News 7th April 2021

[ozbob]

9 News 7th April 2021

https://twitter.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1379718382610710529

[ozbob]

Well done 7 and 9 News.  On the money.

It wasn't ' too quizzical ' to talk about the number of trains on specific lines in 2017 was it?

Again, release updated rail service plans.  We are tired of being treated like fools Minister et al.

Other jurisdictions can manage that for similar projects, what is the problem in Queensland?

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1379811493919686661

[MTPCo]

https://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au/coordinator-general/assessments-and-approvals/coordinated-projects/completed-projects/cross-river-rail-project/project-changes

RfPC9 was quietly approved by the C-G yesterday. A lengthy submission raising the various operational issues was completely ignored, no mention of any of those issues in the report or conditions.

[ozbob]

https://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au/coordinator-general/assessments-and-approvals/coordinated-projects/completed-projects/cross-river-rail-project/project-changes

RfPC9 was quietly approved by the C-G yesterday. A lengthy submission raising the various operational issues was completely ignored, no mention of any of those issues in the report or conditions.

Very discouraging news.

[ozbob]

Facebook ..

Cross River Rail has some serious flaws at the moment and neither the Minister or the CRRDA want to engage with real...

Posted by RAIL - Back On Track on Wednesday, 7 April 2021

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1380179600857178122

[ozbob]

Series of information graphics that highlights the essential issues with Cross River Rail as it stands today ...

[ozbob]

Booked for an interview with Steve Austin Drive ABC Radio Brisbane after 5pm this afternoon (13th April 2021).

Understand someone from CRRDA will also be interviewed.

[Gazza]

Key Talking points

-When freeways merge together they build a flyover, cross river rail will have the rail equivalent of a set of traffic lights at each end.
It's the states most critical infrastructure project, but as usual motorways get built to a better engineering and capacity standard than rail gets.

-The project was delayed on the basis of "getting it right" but TMR aren't getting it right (as they did with the NGR rolling stock or the  delayed and cut back Landsborough duplication)

-They are designing on the fly to a cost, hence the Dutton park portal having to be completely redesigned after it has already gone to tender.


-These rail projects are designed with a 30 year plus horizon, but bailey et al are withholding service plans on the basis of a couple of years of covid.
Interstate they say this is what we are building because this is the long term vision, since doing it that way saves money.
Qld has abandoned a long term vision because of covid.

-$250m was promised for the busway relocation, it's unclear if we will get that and what the money will be spent on.

-CRRDA deliberately made themselves immune to FOI, so there is no accountability.
It is being polticised, the main avenue for questioning it would be in parliamentary question time, but if any question is raised, the default position is that Labor are the only party to promise it, so therefore that gives them the right to make as many mistakes as they like and it's better than nothing.

[achiruel]

Just heard ozbob's interview and the CRRDA response. They believe that the surface rail system at either end of the CRR tunnel can handle 24 tph. Clueless.

[MTPCo]

A good interview by ozbob, and a lot of spin thereafter.

"Can you confirm that all service levels in the business case will be achievable?"
"Well, we're digging a tunnel..."

[ozbob]

^^^ thanks Gazza.  Didn't get much of a chance due to time cut short and some technical issues.

Mr Matthew Marty-Jones the General Manager of  Strategy, People, and Planning CRRDA was interviewed after me.

Basically he was suggesting the "Rail Network Strategy" needs to be finalised and released to appreciate the wider network.  Their remit is the tunnel which will deliver 24 trains each direction per hour.  Seems possible issues external to that are covered by the RNS.

Oh boy ...

I will try to get a recording of the interviews tomorrow.

[#Metro]

OMG 

These people TMR et al. must think they're building a motorway which requires no thought to post-commissioning operations or integration. The last rail tunnel through the city was done aeons ago so it wouldn't surprise me if most who were around then are no longer.

[BrizCommuter]

Just heard ozbob's interview and the CRRDA response. They believe that the surface rail system at either end of the CRR tunnel can handle 24 tph. Clueless.

CRR will handle 24tph, just that it may leave the suburban tracks with just 8tph (down from 22tph), and contra-peak Gold Coast express services trundling slowly behind all stations services.

[#Metro]

VERY concerning!

Cross River Rail train planning impacted by COVID19? Huh? Timetables done 12 months before commissioning? What?

I could understand that if it were a motorway being built where you can build the infra, cut the ribbon and then leave it be, but rail lines the

rails make it fundamentally different - rail is OPERATED.

Tue 13 Apr 2021, 3:30pm
https://www.abc.net.au/radio/brisbane/programs/drive/drive/13295904

Now I am hearing that the timetable in the business case was 'indicative'. This suggests that the BCR for CRR is actually lower than 1.1 or 1.2 if this is the case.

Line Capacity vs Actual timetabling

Cross River Rail is being built to increase line capacity through the CBD. Some, but not all of that capacity will be used to run new services on opening.

Talking about the exact timetabling is a red herring - a distraction. There is a difference between the operating timetable and the line capacity.

A timetable always has to be equal to or less than the line capacity. For example, QR might decide that the Gold Coast line will

run ten trains in the peak hour towards Brisbane but then decide that passenger demand only warrants five trains to actually run with

capacity for an additional five.

Line capacity is the maximum that the line can run on the infrastructure post-CRR. This is a fixed value and is unaffected by COVID-19, timetabling, passenger demand or trends etc.

[ozbob]

Interviews ABC Brisbane Radio 13 Apr 2021 Drive with Host Steve Austin, Robert Dow RBoT and Mr Matthew Martyn-Jones  CRRDA

Topic Rail Service Plans Cross River Rail

Interviews --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcbris/abc_drive_rd13apr21.mp3 MP3 18.7MB

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1381986512456142851

[ozbob]

So Mr Matthew Martyn-Jones  CRRDA has suggested the Rail Network Strategy (RNS) be released but it is the Minister's call.

On the 24th September 2020 I contacted RTI TMR enquiring if it was possible to obtain a copy
administratively of  the " 10 Year SEQ Rail Network Strategy ".

This strategy was done in 2018 by SYSTRA Scott Lister in consultation with TMR, and was concerned with the development of a 10 year demand driven strategy to optimise the benefits of the rail network in SEQ.

I understand it was finalised around 2019.  I was informed by TMR RTI Officer pursuing RTI action to obtain the document would not be successful as it had been to Cabinet and therefore was ' Cabinet - In - Confidence '.  So unless the Minister can over ride the Cabinet - In - Confidence restriction we will never see it Mr Martyn-Jones.

So my comments in the interview stand.  Please release the updated rail service plans for CRR.  They must exist within ConOps.

The RNS should be publicly available as well.  It's Queensland Citizens rail network, it is our money that it is funding it.

WHY THE NON TRANSPARENCY ?

I am considering requesting the RNS administratively again.  Perhaps the Minister might decide to release it with Cabinet's permission?

Can you help us out here lurkers?   

[#Metro]

Could we see the link to the CRR business case again?

[ozbob]

Could we see the link to the CRR business case again?

https://buildingqueensland.qld.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Building-Queensland-Business-Case-LR.pdf

[SABB]

OMG 

These people TMR et al. must think they're building a motorway which requires no thought to post-commissioning operations or integration. The last rail tunnel through the city was done aeons ago so it wouldn't surprise me if most who were around then are no longer.

For Information. The QR engineer who managed the design and construction of all of the Inner City Tunnel Upgrades was David Bywater (Manager Civil Engineering) until retirement in the early 2000s. David Bywater also had a large part in the upgrade of the QR from the steam era to now, in particular the upgrade of the Central Queensland coal field structures from 20TAL to 35TAL traffic. The tunnel designer was Harry Ashkanazy from Connell Wagner.

[kram0]

The other thing we know sweet F%^k all about is how will Boggo Road Station link to Park Road Station. Some basic walkway way with minimal shade from the weather?

Surely they have finished a detailed design considering where they are up to? 

[paulg]

The other thing we know sweet F%^k all about is how will Boggo Road Station link to Park Road Station. Some basic walkway way with minimal shade from the weather?

Surely they have finished a detailed design considering where they are up to? 

The concept images on the CRR website give you an idea. It will just be a basic covered walkway to the existing Park Road station overbridge:

[SurfRail]

I've seen it claimed somewhere that is very much subject to review.

What Moorooka will look like and how it will work are also a mystery.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/TransLinkSEQ/status/1383880598134001665

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Cross River Rail fail as wait times double $

Wait times have more than doubled on the state government's much-hyped Cross River Rail line compared to what was promised for key services when the project opens.

Despite a pledge in 2018 from the government that a train would leave from the Sunshine Coast for Brisbane every six minutes on average during the morning peak, CRR is now saying it "could" be every 15 minutes.

While Transport Minister Mark Bailey says the exact timings and configuration are still being worked out, the CRR website has revealed major increases on several lines ahead of the multi-billion dollar project's opening in four years' time.

An April 2018 media release from the government had claimed that a train would leave from the Sunshine Coast for Brisbane every six minutes on average during morning peak.

But the CRR website now says the project "could" mean for the Sunshine Coast a train leaving for Brisbane every 15 minutes on average in the morning peak on the Nambour line north of Caboolture.

The media release from three years ago had also claimed the project would deliver for Logan a "train every 2 minutes on average during peak on the Gold Coast/Beenleigh line".

The CRR website now indicates that for Logan, the project could mean a train leaving for Brisbane every five minutes on average on the Gold Coast line in the morning peak.

And a train could leave every six minutes on average for Brisbane in the morning peak on the Beenleigh line from Loganlea. ...

STATE GOVERNMENT MEDIA RELEASE – APRIL 16, 2018

Cross River Rail will deliver:

– For the Sunshine Coast – a train leaving the Sunshine Coast for Brisbane every 6 minutes on average during the morning peak

– For Logan – a train every 2 minutes on average during peak on the Gold Coast/Beenleigh line

CROSS RIVER RAIL WEBSITE NOW

With increased capacity for more frequent rail services, Cross River Rail could mean for:

Sunshine Coast

– a train leaving for Brisbane every 15 minutes on average in the morning peak on the Nambour line north of Caboolture

Logan

– a train leaving for Brisbane every 5 minutes on average in the morning peak on the Gold Coast

-a train leaving for Brisbane every 6 minutes on average in the morning peak on the Beenleigh line (from Loganlea station)

https://twitter.com/couriermail/status/1384511796413800455

[ozbob]

^ " ... The LNP's transport spokesman Steve Minnikin claimed it was another example of the government over promising but under-delivering.

"Here they are again starting to condition us that this project will be watered down and will not deliver what was promised," he said.

"It's time this government was honest with Queenslanders about this project. .. "

Finally a growing realisation that there is a need for transparency ...

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https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1384519933594198023

^

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1384525916752138241

[ozbob]

^

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1384521963855515652

[ozbob]

Good Morning Lurkers 

It is only going to get worse.  How the network will operate is what the punters would like to know please ... the truth!

While you contemplate the emerging sh%tstorm  enjoy ... 

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/hansard/2021/2021_04_20_DAILY.pdf

Questions Without Notice

Cross River Rail

Ms McMILLAN: My question is to the Minister for Transport and Main Roads. Will the minister
update the House on how Cross River Rail will transform the way we travel and provide the critical
transport link for a 2032 Olympics?

Mr BAILEY: I am very, very happy to answer that question from the member for Mansfield. What
we saw this morning was the Premier outline a new vision for the Gabba as part of our Olympic bid—
an extraordinary announcement that will have long-term benefits for this city, this region and this state.
A 50,000-seat stadium will be absolutely fantastic for the Olympics. What we are seeing is that all roads
and rail will lead to the Gabba, and this is only possible because we invested in Cross River Rail after
those opposite cut it. While we could not get any federal funds for it, we funded 100 per cent of it. On
that basis, we can see—

Mr Minnikin interjected.

Mr SPEAKER: The member for Chatsworth is warned under the standing orders.

Mr BAILEY: We can see a heavy rail connection, where 900 people per train can come in every
couple of minutes. It will be absolutely fantastic. The Cross River Rail project—which we all know is
awesome—will be a new way to get to the Gabba. You can get there by busway now and other
conventional means, but you will be able to get there by heavy rail. You will be able to get on at the
new Albert Street Station and you will be there in a couple of minutes. All of those people in the inner
city will have a lot easier access, and there will also be a lot easier access out of the Gabba. Anyone
who has been to the Gabba knows that it is hard to get out of there. There are a lot of buses but it is
very difficult. The heavy rail connection is the game changer there.

Anyone who drives by the Gabba now will see hundreds and hundreds of workers in fluoro getting
the job done. We are now at more than one kilometre of underground tunnelling under the Brisbane
River and elsewhere. We are going south, we are going north. The tunnel boring machines are doing
a great job.

While we are cutting through the Brisbane rock, we know that those opposite cut this project.
That is the truth of it. We are getting on with this. It is 100 per cent funded by the Palaszczuk Labor
government, with a vision for a balanced transport network doubling the inner city rail capacity, putting
us in a position to have a really strong Olympic bid. If those opposite had been in power, they would
have cut this project a second time. They cut it when they were in government, and then they promised
to cut it again at the 2017 election, and the people spoke. The people said they want this project, they
want the jobs, they want infrastructure. We have got an infrastructure boom going on in Queensland
right now, with $26.9 billion worth of infrastructure in Queensland. That is an absolute record. It is a hot
market in terms of projects, of infrastructure, of companies right across this state. There is a record
$26.9 billion commitment in roads and rail right across this state.

In terms of the Olympic bid, Cross River Rail will create a new centre at the Gabba, opening up
the centre of the Gabba for the very first time to the community, with the plaza being a direct route in
and out of the stadium. It is going to be awesome.
(Time expired)

[ozbob]

^ crafted question.  Right on the message ' how Cross River Rail will transform the way we travel ' ...   

What happened to more trains more often?

#askingforthepunters

[#Metro]

Bailey is muddling timetable capacity and maximum line capacity.

Maximum line capacity is independent of passenger demand.

Rail operators know this because they know how many slots are left in the timetable for additional services.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Remember expected future network plans back in 2015/2016 has drastically changed since then. Most notably rollingstock availability. And it's been known for a long, long, long time that QR has always preferred longer trains on long distance runs over frequency due to patronage and constraints with full express/semi express and all stoppers sharing paths along with the ability to run a short haul trains in peak between city services ie Beenleigh-Varsity and Caboolture-Landsborough/Beerwah runs in peak hours.

[ozbob]

Actual frequencies are not my real concern at present.  We would like to know sectorisation, line pairs, routing etc. and and some indication of maximum line capacities. They have to know that to build the brownfield sections north and south of the tunnel. It would be part of the ConOps.

I hear your concerns with rollingstock availability.  I don't expect any real frequency increases at all.

MetroTunnel Melbourne

https://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/about-the-project/benefits-for-your-train-line#savings

All lines routing etc. clearly displayed.

Example: Cranbourne / Pakenham lines  all lines are available. This is the standard that CRR needs to be at.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1384644539273474054

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yeah I know. I was just making reference to the frequency claims which would have been planned on what rollingstock they were expecting to have by now when in reality it's by far from what we actually have right now

[kram0]

For f^&k sake Bailey, just admit you are well beyond your depth with this project and employ the like of David Bannister to fix your half baked project, before us the tax payer, pay a hefty price in the long run.