Cross River Rail Project

[#Metro]

"The new Ekka Station would be a fully operational, year-round train station, providing direct rail access to the showground precinct, which every year is home to the famous show and numerous international sporting events and music festivals.

Regular trains to Ekka Station? Fantasy, but not anymore!!!
But there you go- in a ministerial media release, black and white.

[#Metro]

Judging by the location, a certain newspaper's HQ will have a nice rail station nearby.

[somebody]

TT, your dreams look like coming true.  But we already knew that didn't we?

[#Metro]

They aren't my dreams. Group dreaming isn't possible is it? 
Time to rename the fantasy file to the fantastic file.

[#Metro]

"The new Ekka Station would be a fully operational, year-round train station, providing direct rail access to the showground precinct, which every year is home to the famous show and numerous international sporting events and music festivals.

I take this to mean that contentious yearly gouge that is Ekka "special zone" rail entry fee will be forever abolished!

[ozbob]

I take this to mean that contentious yearly gouge that is Ekka "special zone" rail entry fee will be forever abolished!

Indeed TT.

When we first raised the issue of Exhibition station many moons ago, many lampooned us. Life is like that    

The public generally has always been behind us on this though.    Still a way to go yet, but a solid case is building.

Regular rail into the Ekka will be of great benefit to the Herston Medical Precinct of course, as well as what is proposed in terms of development.

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Major hotel to make way for cross river rail

Major hotel to make way for cross river rail
Tony Moore
November 11, 2010 - 12:30PM

The Royal on the Park Hotel will be demolished as part of Brisbane's $8 billion underground rail project.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan this morning confirmed the Alice Street hotel, owned by the Sultan of Brunei, was "slated for resumption" in the plans for a new Albert Street underground rail station.

"[The hotel] is a significant part of Brisbane, but a very significant part of Brisbane's future will be an Albert Street railway station and a metro-style underground rail for the first time," she said

A total of 10 CBD properties would be resumed, including several businesses around Albert Street. Across the entire 18-kilometre cross river rail route, running from Salisbury to Bowen Hills, a total of 39 properties would be acquired.

"They are not as major a building as [the Royal on the Park]," Ms Nolan said.

"But the Albert Street station is quite a major station, it will allow for 220-metre long trains."

The Royal on the Park site, opposite the city botanical gardens, was required for one of two entry points to the underground Albert Street station.

Project director Luke Franzmann said the new station would likely cater for 100,000 rail passengers a day.

"We are looking at two entry points into Albert Street and the discussions and the meetings we have had with all the owners in the Albert Street precinct have largely been very positive," he said.

Mr Franzmann said the project team was confident an appropriate resumption price could be reached.

"We have actually met with the owners and we have spoken about the process that we are working through," he said.

Ms Nolan also announced a major upgrade of the existing Exhibition train station, which would be known as "The Ekka" station.

A new underground train station at Woolloongabba, under the existing Go Print site near the stadium, would be called "The Gabba".

The business case and the environmental impact statement for the cross river rail project were both due to be submitted to the Federal Government early next year, with construction to be completed by 2016.

[O_128]

Just a random thing but why not also rebuild Bowen hills station a few hundred meters north so as to all a new 6 platform station to be built

[ozbob]

Courier Mail --> Iconic Royal on the Park Hotel to be bulldozed for Brisbane Cross River underground rail

[ozbob]

Media Release 11 November 2010

SEQ:  Cross River Rail gains momentum

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has welcomed the release of reference design for the Cross River Rail project (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The Cross River Rail is a critical piece of transport infrastructure needed for a sustainable transport future."

"The return of rail to the Gabba, albeit underground this time is another quirk of history but a welcome one!"

"Round the clock, round the year rail services into the Ekka allow direct access to the Herston Medical Precinct and to the planned developments."

"Property resumptions are a fact of life.  Imagine the many thousands of resumptions should a thirty lane road be pushed through the same route.  A double railway line is equivalent to a thirty lane road way in terms of passenger capacity.  Rail has the capacity needed to move forwards."

"Cross River Rail will transform public transport in south-east Queensland."

Reference:

1. http://statements.cabinet.qld.gov.au/MMS/StatementDisplaySingle.aspx?id=72531


Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[somebody]

Just a random thing but why not also rebuild Bowen hills station a few hundred meters north so as to all a new 6 platform station to be built

Wouldn't that put it beyond the Ferny Grove line flyover?  If so, then there is no point as there would be no interchange with the Ferny Grove line.

[Jonno]

Courier Mail --> Iconic Royal on the Park Hotel to be bulldozed for Brisbane Cross River underground rail

Understand the need to resume...just.  Surely he station can be incorporated into the basement of a new hotel/ retail development

[Derwan]

Just a random thing but why not also rebuild Bowen hills station a few hundred meters north so as to all a new 6 platform station to be built

Wouldn't that put it beyond the Ferny Grove line flyover?  If so, then there is no point as there would be no interchange with the Ferny Grove line.

It's been discussed here before.  The idea is to build platforms (i.e. a second level) on the flyover.  I don't know if this would be possible though.

[Mozz]

Wow they are resuming "Royal on the Park" to build the Albert Street station.....

[SteelPan]

All sounds good with progress - unless this new rail corridor is built through inner-Brisbane, the entire metro system - from Gympie to the Gold Coast and out to beyond Ipswich, is going to grind to a halt!  There is simply no more long-term capacity left in the existing inner-city corridor.  Further, I find it somewhat concerning that people, in the wider-community, could be anti the development of such fundamental city infrastructure as underground rail - it appears many who call Brisbane home have 1) never left it, to experience other larger cities and 2) do not appreciate calenders have "flipped over" from the mid-1960's!  How many tunnels, road and rail, run under New York City, London or even Sydney?  Finally, the hotel in question has been in developers sights for years, it's long past its useby date!  (medication taken-rant over...for now  )

[Golliwog]

Just a random thing but why not also rebuild Bowen hills station a few hundred meters north so as to all a new 6 platform station to be built

Wouldn't that put it beyond the Ferny Grove line flyover?  If so, then there is no point as there would be no interchange with the Ferny Grove line.

It's been discussed here before.  The idea is to build platforms (i.e. a second level) on the flyover.  I don't know if this would be possible though.

This would totally be possible... except for one thing. The ICB overpass would likely get in the way.

[Jonno]

Agree totally that the hotel is at then end of its commerical life.  I just hope by the Government resuming this land that we are not left with a single storey railway station no matter how fancy.  There is enough park alnd surrounding it so no need for a square or anything. The station can be built undeneath a multi-strey development.

[paulg]

The detailed maps on the Cross River Rail website show the alignment of the Bowen Hills flyover, as well as station layouts and entrance locations:

http://www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/images/stories/pdf_map_03_woolloongabba_bowen_hills.pdf
http://www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/images/stories/pdf_map_02_yeerongpilly_woolloongabba.pdf
http://www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/images/stories/pdf_map_01_salisbury_yeerongpilly.pdf

Cheers, Paul

[somebody]

Thanks paulg.

I'm confused about the need to bridge over all the tracks but then connect to the mains.  Isn't there enough room to go under the FG flyover?  And if you are bridging, then wouldn't it make far more sense to attach to the suburbans?

[Golliwog]

Thanks paulg.

I'm confused about the need to bridge over all the tracks but then connect to the mains.  Isn't there enough room to go under the FG flyover?  And if you are bridging, then wouldn't it make far more sense to attach to the suburbans?

The need is to avoid conflict points and retain grade seperation. You probably would go under the FG flyover, but you would lose stabling space, which is the whole reason they didn't surface in the Clapham yards, so I wouldn't think they would remove any of Mayne either.

As for attaching to the Mains rather than the Suburbans, I don't really know but its probably a capacity thing. If you're going to run 9 car trains, which is a planned eventuality for this project, then you would want to attach to the line that has the biggest catchment area and is most likely to fill up these trains. The latest newsletter says this:

It is proposed Gold Coast, Beenleigh, Caboolture, Petrie and Sunshine Coast trains would use the tunnel meaning Cleveland, Ferny Grove and Kuraby trains would have exclusive use of the Merivale Bridge to cross the river between South Brisbane and Roma Street stations.

Wonder what will happen with the IPS_CAB rewrite then?

[BrizCommuter]

Comments on the reference design. http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2010/11/cross-river-rail-reference-design.html
It's nice to have something positive to say for once!

[ozbob]

   yes good at this time.  Some further refinements no doubt to come ..

Wonder what will happen with the IPS_CAB rewrite then?

Good question.  Not sure if the IPS-CAB sectorisation will hold absolutely in a CRR environment.  Looks like the longer term planning is Sunshine Coast <-> Gold Coast and all in between via CRR ?  Or Petrie to Kuraby CRR, Ips - Cab via surface as now?

Ipswich <-> Airport?  the mind boogles ..

[paulg]

I think the Reference Design is excellent, it has a lot of very exciting features and opportunities.

The only complaint I have is that the designers have been very greedy in the Yeerongpilly area, with a lot of resumption of high-density residential blocks that I don't see as being absolutely necessary.

For example, why couldn't they make do with this more modest design for the new station:



Sure, there aren't as many platforms, and the access points are a little constrained, but it saves a whole lot of money (fewer resumptions) and should keep the community a lot happier.

The major risks to CRR going ahead are the cost of the project and potential local community opposition, and a more modest Yeerongpilly design would help to mitigate both of those concerns.

Cheers, Paul

[ozbob]

Easy to route trains onto Tennyson as well, couple of crossovers easily achieved.

Must have their reasons Paul.  No harm in putting it forward to them.

[ozbob]

Cost is a factor.  But when you look at what was burnt on the roof insulation scheme (around $3 billion) ...  it doesn't seem unattainable.  Combination of private funding achieved through value adding (investment opportunity at station sites), and federal and state money.

[frereOP]

Pity no one told the business operators in Albert St.  The Royal on the Park s due to be demolished to make way for the new Albert St station but the hotel is planning a multi-million dollar refurbishment.  Someone stuffed up in the communications process because no one seems to know what is going on.

[ozbob]

Negotiations with the Royal on the Park have been going on for a while ..

Brisbanetimes --> Underground rail leaves hole in hotel market

[Emmie]

Pity no one told the business operators in Albert St.  The Royal on the Park s due to be demolished to make way for the new Albert St station but the hotel is planning a multi-million dollar refurbishment.  Someone stuffed up in the communications process because no one seems to know what is going on.

Hum. Not suggesting anything, since I don't know the particulars, but in my country childhood, we all knew that if land was going to be resumed for a dam, you prepared for the resumption by planting a nice, expensive crop, so that the land had to be resumed at agricultural value, not pastoral value. Rhubarb, anyone?

[colinw]

Why not re-develop a new & modern hotel plus mixed use commercial building over the Albert St Station site?

The low rise plan for Albert St station looks pretty in artist's impressions, but is a very poor use of inner city space.

[somebody]

The need is to avoid conflict points and retain grade seperation. You probably would go under the FG flyover, but you would lose stabling space, which is the whole reason they didn't surface in the Clapham yards, so I wouldn't think they would remove any of Mayne either.

That's probably what they are thinking, but I struggle to believe that a better solution couldn't be found.

As for attaching to the Mains rather than the Suburbans, I don't really know but its probably a capacity thing.

I'm afraid not.  Attaching to the mains as per the diagram would cause the whole CRR1 project to do zip for capacity from the north.  That's because coming through the mains at Northgate sends you either to Central 5/6 OR CRR1.  Both of these possibilities will fight with each other.  Clear enough?

[Jonno]

Why not re-develop a new & modern hotel plus mixed use commercial building over the Albert St Station site?

The low rise plan for Albert St station looks pretty in artist's impressions, but is a very poor use of inner city space.

Exactly.  It seems to be a very poor use of an CBD site.  I assume though they need to own the site to get sub-terrainian access and once they have that they can then sell/lease the air space. That can be my only thinking on why you would have to buy it.  I just hope that it does not go the way of other "air-space" development in SEQ...nowhere.

[frereOP]

Why not re-develop a new & modern hotel plus mixed use commercial building over the Albert St Station site?

The low rise plan for Albert St station looks pretty in artist's impressions, but is a very poor use of inner city space.

Exactly.  It seems to be a very poor use of an CBD site.  I assume though they need to own the site to get sub-terrainian access and once they have that they can then sell/lease the air space. That can be my only thinking on why you would have to buy it.  I just hope that it does not go the way of other "air-space" development in SEQ...nowhere.

It's the government.  They can do what ever they like to properties - access them, dig under them, resume them and turn them into schools, hospitals or railway stations - whatever they want to do.  The only stipulation is that the Australian Constitution guarantees that a fair price must be paid where property is resumed.

I think the opportunity for a massive retail and office space development above the station will happen.  After all, look what happened on the opposite and diagonal corners!  The SE end of Albert St is the developing area of town - especially if the $30M hole-in-the-ground that was to be Vision Tower gets a new lease on life.

[Cam]

http://www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/images/stories/pdf_map_01_salisbury_yeerongpilly.pdf

The linked map doesn't show any connection between the Tennyson loop & the southern portal. Therefore, it would appear that Ipswich Line services won't have direct access to The Gabba 

[ozbob]

Indeed, but not hard to sort.   Crossovers need to be in place to allow that from day one.  And of course as this was one of the stated reasons for choosing Yeerongpilly for the portal ...

[somebody]

I still don't understand the need to demolish the existing Yeerongpilly platforms.  Not the prettiest station, but it seems functional enough.  Even if they are at a different elevation to the other platforms, I don't think that's a big problem.

Tracks passing under the existing tracks toward Tennyson would be one way to allow direct Ipswich trains after games at the Gabba, but seems quite expensive for the benefit IMO.  You may as well ask people to change trains at Yeerongpilly or Roma St if heading towards Ipswich.

[colinw]

I still don't understand the need to demolish the existing Yeerongpilly platforms.heading towards Ipswich.

Eh?  The project map - http://www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/images/stories/pdf_map_01_salisbury_yeerongpilly.pdf - shows the current Yeerongpilly as "existing platform".  I thought it would remain unchanged with a new station plopped next to it.

Also, from the presence of the "Floodgate building", I take it that the tunnels are being designed to be sealed off in the case of a 1974 type event?

[somebody]

Pretty sure I have read that elsewhere, but it isn't clearly noted on the map what is to happen with the existing platforms.

But regardless, why is there a need for two additional platforms which connect only to Yeronga?  Perhaps that's what I should have said first.

[somebody]

Also, why is there a need for 3 southbound tracks away from Yeerongpilly, not counting the DG.  I mean, one running on the south side of Moorooka station, one between the station and Clapham Yards, and the third through the station?  Or have I read the map wrong?

[colinw]

Ah, I see what you're driving at now.  My bad.

Yes, a 6 platform station at Yeerongpilly seems an extravagance, particularly if you end up with four platforms servicing only the old route via Yeronga.

Better to design a more modest 4 platform station which allows connectivity from Tennyson via CRR, although it would be a very tight curve from the new station toward Tennyson.

The reasons I can think of for the Yeronga bound platforms in the new station are :-

1. Allow services via Yeronga & South Brisbane which do not have an at grade conflict with trains using the line to Corinda (avoid flat junction conflicts).
2. To cater for a future Browns Plains / Flagstone via South Brisbane service.
3. Old Yeerongpilly will be closed or relegated to occasional use for trains via Tennyson.
4. Yeerongpilly terminators.

Any thoughts on this?  It does seem a bit odd now I think about it.

cheers,
Colin

[Golliwog]

The need is to avoid conflict points and retain grade seperation. You probably would go under the FG flyover, but you would lose stabling space, which is the whole reason they didn't surface in the Clapham yards, so I wouldn't think they would remove any of Mayne either.

That's probably what they are thinking, but I struggle to believe that a better solution couldn't be found.

As for attaching to the Mains rather than the Suburbans, I don't really know but its probably a capacity thing.

I'm afraid not.  Attaching to the mains as per the diagram would cause the whole CRR1 project to do zip for capacity from the north.  That's because coming through the mains at Northgate sends you either to Central 5/6 OR CRR1.  Both of these possibilities will fight with each other.  Clear enough?

I get you're point, although I would like to see some clearer diagrams of the track layout north of Bowen Hills station. With all the dashed lines its virtually impossible to tell if they're just shifting the current tracks a little to fit in the new flyover of if they are changing the set up of the cross overs. It might make more sense if the FG flyover was also shifted to connect to the Mains rather than the Suburbans.