Cross River Rail Project

[kram0]

Thanks, I had not seen that video. Let's hope the existing platforms and buildings get a significant upgrade to 'grand central' status as they are looking very dated currently.

Yes, I believe the busway is still going underground.

[nathandavid88]

While the aboveground portion of Roma Street Station might be a bit dated, it's not nearly as bad as the mess that is Central Station. Roma Street's main concourse is more than adequate and the platforms, while showing their age, are both consistent in design and functional.

I feel Central should be addressed before Roma Street.

[ozbob]

Central station upgrade rolls on ..

Latest update:

Central Station upgrade update https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/aboutus/mediacentre/central-station-upgrade-update
11/7/2019

[kram0]

Have they started any of these works at Central?

[verbatim9]

Have they started any of these works at Central?

Years away

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2020/894-2020.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 894

Asked on 13 August 2020

MR T NICHOLLS ASKED THE MINISTER FOR STATE DEVELOPMENT, TOURISM
AND INNOVATION (HON K JONES) ―

QUESTION:

With reference to the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority—

Will the Minister advise for 2019-20 and 2020-21 (reported separately by financial
year) (a) marketing and communications expenditure and
(b) expenditure on corporate wardrobe items?

ANSWER:

The Palaszczuk Government's $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project is transforming
South East Queensland's public transport network unlocking the bottleneck in
inner-Brisbane.

The Cross River Rail Delivery Authority has been charged with responsibility for
ensuring the Queensland community is informed of the project's progress, milestones,
benefits and activities including construction impacts.

The expenditure figures requested are:

2019/20     2020/21
Marketing & Communications Expenditure $863 700     $20 800
Corporate Wardrobe Items $32 730     $1 710

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2020/911-2020.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 911

Asked on 13 August 2020

MR D CRISAFULLI ASKED THE MINISTER FOR STATE DEVELOPMENT,
TOURISM AND INNOVATION (HON K JONES) ―

QUESTION:

Will the Minister advise whether as a result of full sectorisation of rail operations via
the Cross River Rail (CRR) alignment, all Gold Coast/Beenleigh trains will terminate
at Park Road or a nearby station during CRR construction?

ANSWER:

Cross River Rail (CRR) will enable a world class turn-up-and-go public transport
network, that will allow our growing population to travel to, from and through Brisbane
City with greater ease and more comfort.

CRR is a new 10.2 kilometre rail line, including 5.9 kilometres of twin underground
tunnels, from Dutton Park to Bowen Hills that will integrate into the existing rail corridor.
Railway construction in a 'live' brownfield environment is complex and will require
some service changes for public transport users. As final designs are progressed, track
and network changes will be identified and communicated with all transport users.
The Cross River Rail Delivery Authority works closely with the Department of Transport
and Main Roads, Queensland Rail and TransLink to determine the scheduling across
the entire South East Queensland network.

[Gazza]

They're asking in parliament if there will be track closures during CRR works. Geez 

[verbatim9]

I think they are asking if it's likely to be a prolonged shutdown as what occurred in Vic last summer and NSW with the Metro conversion from Chatswood.

[Gazza]

Does it really matter if it's a long shut down?
Obviously they'll minimise it because bustitution is expensive and difficult.

[JimmyP]

If there is, it's likely Beenleigh and GC trains would just run express to/from the City via Tennyson i'd say. Shuttle trains Roma St to Park Road and buses Park Road to Moorooka.
Another option might be to have GC run via Tennyson and Beenleigh trains start/finish at Yeerongpilly, with Ferny Grove trains start/finishing at Park Road and buses in between.
Will be interesting to watch it all play out.

[verbatim9]

I think they are asking if it's likely to be a prolonged shutdown as what occurred in Vic last summer and NSW with the Metro conversion from Chatswood.

Does it really matter if it's a long shut down?
Obviously they'll minimise it because bustitution is expensive and difficult.

Obviously that's why they were asking about a prolonged shutdown. As interim measures would need to be put in place and budgeted for. It's likely that a prolonged shutdown will occur at some stage but the Government is not obligated to enlighten on any potential shutdown.

[verbatim9]

If there is, it's likely Beenleigh and GC trains would just run express to/from the City via Tennyson i'd say. Shuttle trains Roma St to Park Road and buses Park Road to Moorooka.
Another option might be to have GC run via Tennyson and Beenleigh trains start/finish at Yeerongpilly, with Ferny Grove trains start/finishing at Park Road and buses in between.
Will be interesting to watch it all play out.

I agree they will probably utilise the Tennyson link as much as possible on the Southside.

[BrizCommuter]

If there is, it's likely Beenleigh and GC trains would just run express to/from the City via Tennyson i'd say. Shuttle trains Roma St to Park Road and buses Park Road to Moorooka.
Another option might be to have GC run via Tennyson and Beenleigh trains start/finish at Yeerongpilly, with Ferny Grove trains start/finishing at Park Road and buses in between.
Will be interesting to watch it all play out.

There will certainly need to be more than 4tph counter peak through South Bank!

[Gazza]

If there is, it's likely Beenleigh and GC trains would just run express to/from the City via Tennyson i'd say. Shuttle trains Roma St to Park Road and buses Park Road to Moorooka.
Another option might be to have GC run via Tennyson and Beenleigh trains start/finish at Yeerongpilly, with Ferny Grove trains start/finishing at Park Road and buses in between.
Will be interesting to watch it all play out.

There will certainly need to be more than 4tph counter peak through South Bank!

Can't everyone just be encouraged to use buses from Roma St to Cultural Center too?

[BrizCommuter]

If there is, it's likely Beenleigh and GC trains would just run express to/from the City via Tennyson i'd say. Shuttle trains Roma St to Park Road and buses Park Road to Moorooka.
Another option might be to have GC run via Tennyson and Beenleigh trains start/finish at Yeerongpilly, with Ferny Grove trains start/finishing at Park Road and buses in between.
Will be interesting to watch it all play out.

There will certainly need to be more than 4tph counter peak through South Bank!

Can't everyone just be encouraged to use buses from Roma St to Cultural Center too?

Not really 1 train = 16 buses (ish). Passengers are not just heading to Cultural Centre, but also South Bank, and Park Road, with only a handful of bus routes not requiring another change. Pre COVID, the 66 and 61 were often full.

[verbatim9]

If they can run replacement buses that are bi articulated, every 5-10 mins from Coopers Plains to South bank over the off peak times from January to mid February it should be OK. Then run the Gold Coast trains via Tennyson.

Presuming a 6 week shut down a lot of work could be performed as well as money saved. I think a lot of people would prefer a 6 week shutdown than on and off disruptions all throughout the year.

[JimmyP]

If there is, it's likely Beenleigh and GC trains would just run express to/from the City via Tennyson i'd say. Shuttle trains Roma St to Park Road and buses Park Road to Moorooka.
Another option might be to have GC run via Tennyson and Beenleigh trains start/finish at Yeerongpilly, with Ferny Grove trains start/finishing at Park Road and buses in between.
Will be interesting to watch it all play out.

There will certainly need to be more than 4tph counter peak through South Bank!

Cleveland line trains should still be running, so weekdays that will give at least 8tph counter/off-peak.

[Fares_Fair]

Queensland Parliament

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2020/911-2020.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 911

Asked on 13 August 2020

MR D CRISAFULLI ASKED THE MINISTER FOR STATE DEVELOPMENT,
TOURISM AND INNOVATION (HON K JONES) ―

QUESTION:

Will the Minister advise whether as a result of full sectorisation of rail operations via
the Cross River Rail (CRR) alignment, all Gold Coast/Beenleigh trains will terminate
at Park Road or a nearby station during CRR construction?

ANSWER:

Cross River Rail (CRR) will enable a world class turn-up-and-go public transport
network, that will allow our growing population to travel to, from and through Brisbane
City with greater ease and more comfort.

CRR is a new 10.2 kilometre rail line, including 5.9 kilometres of twin underground
tunnels, from Dutton Park to Bowen Hills that will integrate into the existing rail corridor.
Railway construction in a 'live' brownfield environment is complex and will require
some service changes for public transport users. As final designs are progressed, track
and network changes will be identified and communicated with all transport users.
The Cross River Rail Delivery Authority works closely with the Department of Transport
and Main Roads, Queensland Rail and TransLink to determine the scheduling across
the entire South East Queensland network.

Paraphrased: We have no idea.

[Andrew]

Paraphrased: We have no idea.

Or we don't want to tell...

[BrizCommuter]

If there is, it's likely Beenleigh and GC trains would just run express to/from the City via Tennyson i'd say. Shuttle trains Roma St to Park Road and buses Park Road to Moorooka.
Another option might be to have GC run via Tennyson and Beenleigh trains start/finish at Yeerongpilly, with Ferny Grove trains start/finishing at Park Road and buses in between.
Will be interesting to watch it all play out.

There will certainly need to be more than 4tph counter peak through South Bank!

Cleveland line trains should still be running, so weekdays that will give at least 8tph counter/off-peak.

It's 8tph peak and 4tph counter-peak. There might be a few more  services through SB that form empty runs from Park Rd to Manly, but these would be earlier in the am peak only.

[JimmyP]

If there is, it's likely Beenleigh and GC trains would just run express to/from the City via Tennyson i'd say. Shuttle trains Roma St to Park Road and buses Park Road to Moorooka.
Another option might be to have GC run via Tennyson and Beenleigh trains start/finish at Yeerongpilly, with Ferny Grove trains start/finishing at Park Road and buses in between.
Will be interesting to watch it all play out.

There will certainly need to be more than 4tph counter peak through South Bank!

Cleveland line trains should still be running, so weekdays that will give at least 8tph counter/off-peak.

It's 8tph peak and 4tph counter-peak. There might be a few more  services through SB that form empty runs from Park Rd to Manly, but these would be earlier in the am peak only.

4tph Cleveland line plus 4tph shuttle/Ferny Grove starters/finishes, like I said in the original post...

[aldonius]

I mean, the Ferny Grove trains might just terminate at Roma St. But it would ideally be Park Rd, yes.

[mufreight]

It would be another planning disaster if when Cross River rail is built that the TBM's that are used to tunnel from Dutton Park through to Roma Streeet one of them should be refurbished then turned around and used to bore a single track tunnel through from Dutton Park to Clapham or Sailsbury to remove the bottleneck that will otherwise choke Cross River Rail.

[Gazza]

It would be another planning disaster if when Cross River rail is built that the TBM's that are used to tunnel from Dutton Park through to Roma Streeet one of them should be refurbished then turned around and used to bore a single track tunnel through from Dutton Park to Clapham or Sailsbury to remove the bottleneck that will otherwise choke Cross River Rail.

Ideally, it should have just been the dual track tunnel to Yeerongpilly as always planned, then it would have been a simple case of 2 express tracks underground, 2 express tracks above ground, with the current 3rd Dual Gauge track being a dedicated freight line from Acacia Ridge to the Port of Brisbane.

[JimmyP]

I believe the tunnel between Dutton Park and Gabba is to be dug by road headers, not TBMs?

[mufreight]

They are going to use TBM's to go across under the river and since they will have them here they could be used to tunnel from Dutton Park south to Clapham with the single bidirectional track used for express services.

[JimmyP]

Pretty sure I read it is going to be TBM Normanby to 'Gabba and road header Gabba to Dutton Park due to alignment etc issues.

[ozbob]

Pretty sure I read it is going to be TBM Normanby to 'Gabba and road header Gabba to Dutton Park due to alignment etc issues.

Yes, I think that is the case. 

' The TBMs will be launched from the Woolloongabba Station site and will each dig a tunnel under the Brisbane River to the Albert Street Station. From here they will then continue to the new Roma Street Station before emerging at the project's northern portal at Normanby.'

[BrizCommuter]

They are going to use TBM's to go across under the river and since they will have them here they could be used to tunnel from Dutton Park south to Clapham with the single bidirectional track used for express services.

That would require common sense, and $$$.

[Gazza]

Why would you do a single track and not dual?

[ozbob]

Paraphrased: We have no idea.

Or we don't want to tell...

[BrizCommuter]

If there is, it's likely Beenleigh and GC trains would just run express to/from the City via Tennyson i'd say. Shuttle trains Roma St to Park Road and buses Park Road to Moorooka.
Another option might be to have GC run via Tennyson and Beenleigh trains start/finish at Yeerongpilly, with Ferny Grove trains start/finishing at Park Road and buses in between.
Will be interesting to watch it all play out.

There will certainly need to be more than 4tph counter peak through South Bank!

Cleveland line trains should still be running, so weekdays that will give at least 8tph counter/off-peak.

It's 8tph peak and 4tph counter-peak. There might be a few more  services through SB that form empty runs from Park Rd to Manly, but these would be earlier in the am peak only.

4tph Cleveland line plus 4tph shuttle/Ferny Grove starters/finishes, like I said in the original post...

So no Ferny Grove to Beenleigh/Coopers Plains via Tennyson Line? I could see peak capacity issues on the Beenleigh/Gold Coast Line here.

[JimmyP]

If there is, it's likely Beenleigh and GC trains would just run express to/from the City via Tennyson i'd say. Shuttle trains Roma St to Park Road and buses Park Road to Moorooka.
Another option might be to have GC run via Tennyson and Beenleigh trains start/finish at Yeerongpilly, with Ferny Grove trains start/finishing at Park Road and buses in between.
Will be interesting to watch it all play out.

There will certainly need to be more than 4tph counter peak through South Bank!

Cleveland line trains should still be running, so weekdays that will give at least 8tph counter/off-peak.

It's 8tph peak and 4tph counter-peak. There might be a few more  services through SB that form empty runs from Park Rd to Manly, but these would be earlier in the am peak only.

4tph Cleveland line plus 4tph shuttle/Ferny Grove starters/finishes, like I said in the original post...

So no Ferny Grove to Beenleigh/Coopers Plains via Tennyson Line? I could see peak capacity issues on the Beenleigh/Gold Coast Line here.

Perhaps an additional stop for GC trains at Moorooka to allow pax to change for all stations services could work? Having both Beenleigh and Gold Coast trains running via Tennyson would put a lot of strain on the Western line during peaks.

[mufreight]

The additional single line tunnel from Dutton Park to Clapham would effectively give four tracks from the southern portal of CRR to Clapham, from Clapham there is sufficent room in the corridor to add the additional line to give four tracks to Beenleigh,
The initial operations would need the four tracks to enable express services from Clapham into the city, as demand increases that need for express services would need the capibility for express services to pass would need to be extended to Beenleigh to the city.

[Gazza]

The additional single line tunnel from Dutton Park to Clapham would effectively give four tracks from the southern portal of CRR to Clapham, from Clapham there is sufficent room in the corridor to add the additional line to give four tracks to Beenleigh,
The initial operations would need the four tracks to enable express services from Clapham into the city, as demand increases that need for express services would need the capibility for express services to pass would need to be extended to Beenleigh to the city.

But the corridor ultimately needs 5 tracks as the long term vision for segregated operations.
1 freight / DG
2 express
2 local

[verbatim9]

I went past Park Road on the train today and the CRR construction crew were busy at the new station site.

[MTPCo]

The additional single line tunnel from Dutton Park to Clapham would effectively give four tracks from the southern portal of CRR to Clapham, from Clapham there is sufficent room in the corridor to add the additional line to give four tracks to Beenleigh,
The initial operations would need the four tracks to enable express services from Clapham into the city, as demand increases that need for express services would need the capibility for express services to pass would need to be extended to Beenleigh to the city.

But the corridor ultimately needs 5 tracks as the long term vision for segregated operations.
1 freight / DG
2 express
2 local

+1

I think mufreight is completely correct in terms of trying to reuse the TBMs while they are here though. There are all manner of efficiencies in terms of rolling on the tunnelling including the local knowledge/mobilisation activities.

The biggest issue is the lack of future-proofing to extend the tunnels. In trying to shoehorn into Dutton Park there's not going to be a viable connection point. They could easily have extended the tunnels slightly further south and had Dutton Park serviced by trains from (e.g.) Ferny Grove, with those services extended to Yeerongpilly when the tunnels were ultimately extended. There is of course still time, but I daresay a lack of motivation.

[James]

Pretty sure I read it is going to be TBM Normanby to 'Gabba and road header Gabba to Dutton Park due to alignment etc issues.

Roadheaders are being used between Woolloongabba and Dutton Park because there's no room to lift out a TBM at Dutton Park once they're done. This would definitely be contributing to a higher overall cost of the project.

Paraphrased: We have no idea.

This is no surprise. Construction has been very slow over at Park Road / Dutton Park, probably because they still don't really know how they're going to build that end of the tunnel yet.

I recall reading earlier in this thread there was talk that Dutton Park station may still yet be closed - there may be the trade off. Keep Dutton Park open post-construction, but close two of the three tracks for a few months, or close Dutton Park but keep the railway line open.

[JimmyP]

Thanks James! I knew I read there was a particular reason, but couldn't quite remember what it was.