Cross River Rail Project

[#Metro]

Don't be silly, that would take up room that could be used for car parks.

Nice humour!

An interesting suggestion, although I really only see the 100 and 105/108 using said bus bay.  If Beaudesert Rd services could use it via Green St, that would be different.

Bus bays should be standard at all railway stations.
Helpful for local buses to do interchange, and helpful when something happens and a rail replacement bus is required.

With a station with such high frequency and such a fast trip to the CBD, not building an interchange would be a PT fail.
Suggestion for bus 100 to use it is interesting!

[#Metro]

http://www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/images/stories/Pdf_crr_local_update_sal_fair_01.pdf

OK, above is the newsletter.

Better facilities including:
• better lighting and security
• new bike storage facilities
• more ticket gates
• new kiss and ride bays
• improved disability access
• station canopy to shade and shelter
passengers
• sheltered bus interchange
• noise barriers and buffer planting between
the new station and residences
• extension of the new pedestrian bridge
from Fairfield Road to the new station.

[somebody]

Suggestion for bus 100 to use it is interesting!

Not that interesting, it's the obvious service isn't it?  The only "local buses" anywhere near are the 105/107/108/116/196/197.  At least that I can think of OTOH.

Wonder where the bus interchange would be? (east or west side)

[#Metro]

Both BrisbaneTimes and Courier Mail are running scare stories over 66 "properties" being demolished.
Eastern Busway at Buranda took out 300!

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/300-homes-to-be-resumed-for-eastern-busway/2008/06/05/1212258970171.html

[colinw]

Don't you just love the way the media always go for the "Shock! Horror! We're all ruined!!!" scare story, rather than balanced reporting of facts.  How many houses did the South East Freeway take out back in the 1970s?

Over all, while I still think the dive could have been between Fairfield & Park Road, I think the Yeerongpilly portal is a positive.

1. It fits well with Yeerongpilly as a TOD.
2. It provides a very useful 10 minute saving inbound from Yeerongpilly, which will benefit all lines that feed into it.
3. It makes CRR available via the Tennyson route, potentially creating a 15 minute transit time Corinda to Albert St
4. It will provide spare surface capacity to run a frequent local service to Yeerongpilly or Corinda or Darra via South Brisbane.
5. It saves a bunch of possible resumptions in Yeronga & Fairfield.
6. It facilitates a dedicated freight line on the surface route, which could still be quadrupled without major resumptions.
7. It means Fairfield station can stay where it is, rather than moving it to a less useful location.
8. It creates ample track capacity for the future Browns Plains / Greenbank / Flagstone / Beaudesert route - at least 5 tracks
   available inbound from Yeerongpilly, and plenty of space to add more from Yeerongpilly to Salisbury.

Decision made.  Time to move on to funding & construction..

[somebody]

Seems to be a bit of gold plating here.  If it is to have a UDUD arrangement, why can't we just leave the existing platforms at Yeerongpilly alone?

3. It makes CRR available via the Tennyson route, potentially creating a 15 minute transit time Corinda to Albert St
...
Decision made.  Time to move on to funding & construction..

Not sure why it is an advantage to be able to connect Albert St with the Tennyson loop though.

Also, it's only "preferred option" status.  That could change, although it doesn't seem very likely.

[colinw]

Redundancy of route options.  Opens up 3 alternative routes to the city from either Corinda or the Beenleigh/Gold Coast/Flagstone lines.  Allows "footy specials" to the 'gabba to run from Ipswich & Springfield.

[#Metro]

  I am so surprised at the turn of events over the last month.

What is happening inside the Department of Transport?
Judging from the plans and things that have come out, some kind of sustainable transport revolution must be happening inside the Department's four walls!

It's very surprising, but also very good!  

Final major hurdle--- getting the cash to fund it!!!

( I also noticed the Courier-Mail changed the title of the story and took down the giant banner!) 

[Derwan]

Final major hurdle--- getting the cash to fund it!!!

After scuttling Traveston Dam, the Federal Government owes us one!!

[#Metro]

Redundancy of route options.  Opens up 3 alternative routes to the city from either Corinda or the Beenleigh/Gold Coast/Flagstone lines.  Allows "footy specials" to the 'gabba to run from Ipswich & Springfield.

It will be a very fault-tolerant and robust network when complete.
A fault near the CBD can be bypassed by using the Tennyson loop or Cross River Rail tunnel.
A fault on the Northern lines can be bypassed by using the Cross River Rail Tunnel or the Trouts Road line

[somebody]

Allows "footy specials" to the 'gabba to run from Ipswich & Springfield.

That's a good plus.  They could also turn the other way towards Sherwood too, so just about every line can get a direct service except Ferny Grove and Cleveland.  I think 3 way redundancy is somewhat overkill though.

It will be a very fault-tolerant and robust network when complete.

Any problem or trackwork in the new tunnel results in disruption to pax though.

[O_128]

... don't forget to build a bus bay or something as well there! With frequency like that, it opens up a world of feeder bus and cross town bus opportunities linking in with the express rail service.

Don't be silly, that would take up room that could be used for car parks.

im thinking with the TOD, Tennyson developments and etc that there will be no need for carparks, there is already limited parking.

Also lets make sure that at the very least albert street and roma street have 4 platforms

[#Metro]

Some people will have to move, and they should be compensated.
A really savvy developer however could offer them a place across the road inside the Yeerongpilly TOD if that is fast-tracked and approved to allow it to be built just before people need to move out.

[Golliwog]

Do they ever say they are actually getting rid of the old platforms at Yeerongpilly? From my interpretation of the map its going to be a 6 platform station. Something I found interesting though is that only 1 of the 2 new island is planned to be long enough for 9 car trains. I understand the thinking that the GC express trains have the least number of stations so it easiest to upsize those, but surely the eventuality is we will be needing the possibility of 9 car trains at all stations? Especially once people start seeing the longer trains and whinging with the whole "I want one!" attitude.

[Stillwater]

People at Yeerongpilly whose houses have to be resumed should receive compensation at market values.  Those nearby who are complaining about a bit of dust and noise don't appreciate just how much property values will go up once the station redevelopment is completed.  They are sitting on a tidy profit just by hanging out until they have 15min train services taking 10mins to the city.

I understand that if there is noise from works etc, the government will even put you up in a motel for a night or two.  Maybe they could ask for a weekend away at the Gold Coast -- won't cost anymore than a Brisbane motel.

At to whether the Federal Government will meet the cost of CRR, when the lollies were handed out to the states last time around, the only 'shovel ready' project was the Redcliffe line.  The FG funded the feasibility study for the CRR.  Hopefully the SG can do a rigorous business analysis to convince the FG that this is a worthwhile project consistent with its renewed focus on 'building our cities'.  There's a lot of detail to be worked through and I hope the SG is serious, not just interested in grabbing a headline.  The groundwork is laid out in the Connecting SEQ document.  It is a good foundation.  A lot more flesh is required on the skeleton.

I hope the SG is also thinking about putting together a 'regional transport' project, because there will be FG money earmarked specifically for that purpose?  Beaudesert rail perhaps?  Maybe Ipswich-Gatton passenger rail?

BTW, with all this talk of 'next generation' trains for the SEQ, what trains are available now that meet the requirements for trains operating at 160km/hr?

[somebody]

From my interpretation of the map its going to be a 6 platform station.

A possibility I am not excited about.  Seems to be a conflicting move at the north end of the station, but more importantly I cannot see a logical reason why Yeerongpillly would require more than 4 platforms, unless it is a matter of bifurcating the via Albert St track.  Perhaps there is a misunderstanding by the person that drew that picture.

surely the eventuality is we will be needing the possibility of 9 car trains at all stations? Especially once people start seeing the longer trains and whinging with the whole "I want one!" attitude.

I don't see much percentage in 9 car trains except for the Gold Coast.  There is little percentage upgrading the frequency about the 15 minute mark there, so longer trains make sense.  On the Ipswich and Caboolture lines, a 10 minute service to all stations, with expresses would be awesome.

Hope that made sense.

[#Metro]

Do they ever say they are actually getting rid of the old platforms at Yeerongpilly? From my interpretation of the map its going to be a 6 platform station. Something I found interesting though is that only 1 of the 2 new island is planned to be long enough for 9 car trains. I understand the thinking that the GC express trains have the least number of stations so it easiest to upsize those, but surely the eventuality is we will be needing the possibility of 9 car trains at all stations? Especially once people start seeing the longer trains and whinging with the whole "I want one!" attitude.

You could do it.. but it would only be useful IMHO if all of the upstream stations (Fairfield, Dutton Pk, Pk Rd, etc) had a long platform too.

[O_128]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/million-dollar-homes-in-firing-line-20100915-15cc7.html

and here starts the crying, do people not realize that they are compensated AT market value for there house, yes i know its unfortunate but this is all for progress, clapham yards just don't allow for services via Tennyson which is a pain

[Golliwog]

Yes, 9 car trains on all lines is not something I see happening any time soon however if your building totally new platforms, why not spend that tiny bit extra and make all 4 new platforms long enough? Its only a small extra cost and it saves them from having to come back in the future and disrupt services. And if in the end we dont go to 9 cars across the board, theres no harm in that.

[ozbob]

 http://bit.ly/aTg49p Brisbane home buyers on the right track

[ozbob]

The house I grew up in Melbourne is now part of the Dandenong Road light rail/road system.  That is reality.  

Transport infrastructure is needed for the benefit of the community.  The Eastern Busway will claim around 300 houses.  The impacts of the CRR at Yeerongpilly are significant but will be managed, as are the Eastern busway resumptions.

Many residents in Brisbane have and are still putting up with construction of many activities. Even in my own local area, Oxley residents have worn some major disruption the last few years. Darra likewise.  Wooloowin residents etc. etc.  Certain communities on the Caboolture to Beerburrum duplication also had periods of disruption.  Gold Coast ...  All over ... That's life folks ...

The thousands driving on the Ipswich Highway this morning are unlikely to thank the Darra residents forced out of their houses, are they?

The houses at Oxley brought and turned into car park spaces, thanks residents say the car parkers NOT ... 

The best thing the residents in Yeerongpilly can do is actually engage with the consultation processes on offer and look forwards.

[ozbob]

The reasons why the portal was not further south have been stated as:

• cost significantly more
because a longer underground
tunnel would be required

• require everything north
of the tunnel portal to be
underground, including the
proposed new Yeerongpilly
Station – this would add
significant additional cost and
risk the station not being part
of the project

• require a new stabling facility
to be found elsewhere, which
could potentially require a 15
hectare land site to be resumed
further south, the equivalent of
three Suncorp Stadiums

• require additional surface
tracks to connect Cross River
Rail to the new stabling facility

• not allow the Tennyson Loop
to connect to Cross River Rail
in the future, if required.

http://www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/images/stories/Pdf_crr_local_update_sal_fair_01.pdf

Why Yeerongpilly:

Yeerongpilly was selected
as the preferred portal and
station location as it would:

• provide the best balance
between cost, community
impact, community benefit
and rail operations

• provide a new station
at Yeerongpilly

• help achieve one of the project's
key objectives – to provide
city-building opportunities
by supporting the proposed
transit oriented development
(identified in the 2010 Growth
Management Summit as a location
where high quality and frequent
public transport is required)

• minimise the amount of
residential property impacts

• largely use commercial and
industrial land instead of
residential land

• require a shorter portal structure
because of the area's favourable
topography

• allow the Tennyson Loop to
connect to the Cross River Rail
tunnel in the future, if required.

Locating the southern tunnel portal
in Yeerongpilly would also allow
Cross River Rail to connect to the
Clapham Rail Yard in Moorooka.

The yard has been earmarked as
the main southern stabling facility
for the increasing number of trains
that will be added to the region's
rail network over the coming years.

If the portal was to be located in the
yard, a longer portal structure would
be required because of the area's
topography and poor geology.

This would mean the tunnel could
not surface until well into the yard
and there is not enough space to
have both the portal and a stabling
facility in the existing yard.

While planning for Cross River Rail
includes looking at ways to minimise
the impacts on the local communities,
infrastructure projects like Cross River
Rail inevitably have some impact.

The environmental impact study will
assess potential impacts of the project
on local and regional communities from
construction and operation and identify
ways to maximise the benefits and
avoid or minimise these impacts.

[Jonno]

Both BrisbaneTimes and Courier Mail are running scare stories over 66 "properties" being demolished.
Eastern Busway at Buranda took out 300!

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/300-homes-to-be-resumed-for-eastern-busway/2008/06/05/1212258970171.html

Having you home or property resumed is always going to be difficult to deal with... but if this project is not built then the city needs to find corridors for 30 lanes of freeway.   How many homes/properties would need to be resumed for that.  Just ask the people of Kedron and it is underground.

If this was a freeway the headline would be "66 home go in the name of progress".   

[Jonno]

Yes, 9 car trains on all lines is not something I see happening any time soon however if your building totally new platforms, why not spend that tiny bit extra and make all 4 new platforms long enough? Its only a small extra cost and it saves them from having to come back in the future and disrupt services. And if in the end we dont go to 9 cars across the board, theres no harm in that.

Is an interim step doing just though stations/platforms that have express/limited stops thus allowing these services to be 9 cars.  Just thinking aloud?

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Railyards 'not suitable' for portal

Railyards 'not suitable' for portal
Tony Moore
September 16, 2010 - 5:42AM

It would be impractical to build a new portal to Brisbane's planned underground rail network at rail yards near Moorooka, Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said yesterday.

And the minister last night received the backing of Brisbane's most prominent public transport advocate.

The state government has dismissed the option to build the southern entrance and exit to the underground rail network in the existing Clapham rail yards behind Moorooka rail station.

Clapham was the preferred option for Yeerongpilly residents, 66 of whom now face their properties being resumed for the new portal to be built alongside Yeerongpilly's existing train station.

Those properties included 47 residential properties with 33 houses and 72 units among a number of unit complexes.

Twenty industrial properties would also be affected.

Ms Nolan said the Clapham option was too expensive when it was fully considered, despite it affecting just 38 properties, fewer than the chosen site at Yeerongpilly (66), or a Fairfield option (130).

"That would not have been the extent of it, because the proposal is that the Clapham Yard area would need to be used for train stabling," she said.

"So it would have been 38 properties there to build the tunnel, but there would have to have been quite significant resumptions somewhere else for the trains to be stabled."

Rail: Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow agreed last night, saying geo-technical problems at Moorooka prevented the project getting a good alignment for the tunnel entrance.

He said Moorooka's rail stabling yards were necessary with the state government progressively buying an extra 200 trains.

Mr Dow said the decision to improve Yeerongpilly was sad for some residents, but ultimately would improve the overall rail network and provide good capital returns for residents.

"A service with five minute frequency, 10 minutes into town - that's fabulous," he said.

"If I win Lotto tonight, I am going to buy property in Yeerongpilly tomorrow."

Mr Finn said the decision to move the portal south from Fairfield to Yeerongpilly saved heritage homes around Fairfield.

"Originally the proposal was for Fairfield. The community sought for the portal location to be shifted further south," Mr Finn said.

"And the reason why the community sought that was for the protection of heritage housing."

Mr Finn said the decision to move the entrance portal to Yeerongpilly protected 197 properties, 130 fewer than Fairfield.

"Some of these are early 1900s housing have significant heritage value," he said.

"I welcome the fact that we have been able to protect these 130 properties and mainly take industrial land for the project."

Yeerongpilly MP Simon Finn said he had asked that the Clapham rail yard be studied after being lobbied by residents.

However, the project team said Yeerongpilly offered better options, including improvements to the spur link line from Corinda.

On his website, Mr Finn said the Clapham rail yards added extra engineering costs to the project.

"Finding suitable land for alternative train stabling would have required property resumption elsewhere on the southern network," he said.

"The Yeerongpilly portal location announced today provides a balance between property impacts, future growth demands and project cost as well as delivering great public transport outcomes."

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail 16th September 2010 pages 16 and 17

Properties marked for demolition amid project's Yeerongpilly portal



Lack of consultation over resumptions raises residents' ire



I am surprised with the claims of 'lack of consultation'.  A few weeks ago at the Brisbane Institute forum Derailing traffic chaos a resident in the rail corridor actually congratulated Mr Luke Franzmann CRR Project Director for the consultative processes being undertaken.  A lot of attention has been focussed closer in to Park Road but all residents in the corridor were invited to participate.  Maybe the media articles constantly harping actually were counter productive for some residents actually engaging in the processes available.

[ozbob]

From the Brisbane mX 15th September 2010 page 1

It's Yeerongpilly

[Golliwog]

Yes, 9 car trains on all lines is not something I see happening any time soon however if your building totally new platforms, why not spend that tiny bit extra and make all 4 new platforms long enough? Its only a small extra cost and it saves them from having to come back in the future and disrupt services. And if in the end we dont go to 9 cars across the board, theres no harm in that.

Is an interim step doing just though stations/platforms that have express/limited stops thus allowing these services to be 9 cars.  Just thinking aloud?

Yes I think that would be one way of going about it. Another would be trying to prioritise those stations which aren't overly busy now but will be in the future. Also those that have the capacity to close of some platforms and leave others in use (eg: towards the start of the Corinda to Richlands upgrade, inbound from Corinda (I mostly only noticed it around Toowong, but thats just because thats the only part of the line I use) they would close down two of the four lines so they could replace the older wooden sleepers with concrete ones. The trains could be easily handled by the remaining two tracks. Later one they just switched which two tracks were closed) You would have issues at some stations though for example Mitchelton has road/rail crossings at both ends of the station.

Another way of thinking though is that you probably wouldn't have to close the station while you do it. Its not like theres going to be significant changes to the existing platform (unless they decide to raise it to train level). The only problem may be that they would need a weekend track closure to change the alignment of the tracks just past the station where the platform is to go so that it will actually fit.

[ozbob]

Property values and Railway lines ...

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane home buyers on the right track   

[#Metro]

You would have issues at some stations though for example Mitchelton has road/rail crossings at both ends of the station.

You probably could extend Michelton Station to allow 9-car trains- extension at both ends would probably be needed though.
Why does this Station have 3 tracks yet only 2 platforms?
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.411475,152.975852&z=20&t=h&nmd=20100720

[Golliwog]

I think they sometimes use the 3rd track as storage? I've never seen a train on it though. It used to connect at both ends (I think) so it may have originally been for express trains? I don't really know, but they never took it out as it didn't need to go.

[colinw]

The 3rd road at Mitchelton dates back to the days of loco hauled suburban trains.  Trains would terminate at Mitchelton, then the loco would detach, run around via the 3rd road, turn on the triangle and re-attach at the other end.

There was a 3rd road & triangle at Kuraby for the same purpose, also at Goodna (but no triangle there).

cheers,
Colin

[Golliwog]

Makes sense, the triangle no longer exist but it was further inbound from the station and poked into what is now the grounds of Mt St Michaels.

[somebody]

The CRR website states that the rails (or was it platforms) will be 5m below the level of Wilkie St.  Will Tennyson loop access actually be achieved if that is the case?  There may need to be an underpass to do it.

[Golliwog]

...maybe they are raising the street instead of lowering the tracks?

[ghostryder]

Colinw/golliwog

I have been doing some research on the Brisbane Suburbs and just happen to have this week been looking over the track plans of both Mitchelton and Goodna for use in a trainz simulator map.
Mitchelton had more than three tracks, it Had the Up and Down Mains either side of the Island Platform, it had a Down Loop an Up loop and a goods siding. Goodna had a goods siding on the Highway side of the station with the goods shed located between the old footbridge and Church st on the highway side. On the River side of the station there was a Refuge Loop which and a good siding that had a loading bank and a 3 ton whip crane. Goodna was for a while used as a terminal Station for services from Both Ipswich and Brisbane.

scott   

[colinw]

Hi Scott,

That's interesting, thanks for the info.  I can only ever remember seeing 3 tracks at either Mitchelton or Goodna, which means the removal of the additional tracks occurred before I moved to Brisbane in 1989.

cheers,
Colin

[ozbob]

Courier Mail --> 300 angry Yeerongpilly residents protest $8bn cross river rail tunnel

[colinw]

I can understand their concerns, but would rather 66 resumptions at Yeerongpilly to 200 at Yeronga & Fairfield.  In any case, no matter what you propose building, or where you put it, somebody always complains.

[ozbob]

Around 300 resumptions for the Eastern Busway are occurring as well.  Resumptions are constant at the moment for various projects, roads and road tunnels, busways and rail lines.  Darra is about to cop another whack as well (Darra to Rocklea highway upgrade).