Cross River Rail Project

[verbatim9]

I'm writing a half-yearly CRR score card. Has there been any progress on:
- Ordering new trains?
- Employing sufficient drivers?
- ETCS?
- Associated infrastructure projects (e.g. Beenleigh Line, Cleveland Line)?
Thanks

Just ETCS I believe. No tunneling except the for the station boxes.

[ozbob]

I'm writing a half-yearly CRR score card. Has there been any progress on:
- Ordering new trains?
- Employing sufficient drivers?
- ETCS?
- Associated infrastructure projects (e.g. Beenleigh Line, Cleveland Line)?
Thanks

^

https://crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/about/rail-network-improvements/

As part of the project, Cross River Rail will also implement the European Train Control System (ETCS) upgrade on the Shorncliffe line.

ETCS will be rolled out over several stages starting with a pilot program which is being planned for the Shorncliffe Line in 2022 with early works commencing in late 2019.

Before the pilot program can start, trains and the tracks will be fitted with the new ETCS equipment which sends continuous data to report the position, direction and speed of trains and enables the system to calculate a safe maximum running speed for each train. ...

So Shorncliffe is to be the ETCS pilot.  Seems sensible to me.

[nathandavid88]

I believe works have been occurring in relation to the upgrades of the Beenleigh Line Stations (Salisbury to Dutton Park), if that counts.

https://crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/construction/work-notices/?area=area-salisbury-to-fairfield

[BrizCommuter]

I believe works have been occurring in relation to the upgrades of the Beenleigh Line Stations (Salisbury to Dutton Park), if that counts.

https://crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/construction/work-notices/?area=area-salisbury-to-fairfield

It certainly counts towards the fail as 4 tracks are required.

[BrizCommuter]

It's the Cross River Rail Score Card for 2020 Q2.
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2020/05/cross-river-rail-score-card-q2-2020.html

[timh]

It's the Cross River Rail Score Card for 2020 Q2.
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2020/05/cross-river-rail-score-card-q2-2020.html

Great summary. Still think duplication to Ascot worth noting as it is dead easy.

Also regarding GC/Beenleigh line improvments: there is plans for a passing loop (third track) at the new Loganlea station. So that's at least some capacity upgrade I guess???




Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[ozbob]

It's the Cross River Rail Score Card for 2020 Q2.
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2020/05/cross-river-rail-score-card-q2-2020.html

Thanks Briz to all outlets and ..

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1263486585409957888

[verbatim9]

Former Hotel Jen coming down fast! Plus new marketing material on the acoustic shed at Roma St.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> How Cross River Rail will change our city forever

QUEENSLAND'S biggest infrastructure project will be a heart bypass that transforms the centre of Brisbane, hooks up more trains to the suburbs and regions and creates thousands of jobs when they are needed most, its builders say.

Construction of the massive $5.4 billion Cross River Rail underground railway, tunnel and stations is currently pouring $2.8 million a day into the Queensland economy, jumping to $4.1 million a day as it ramps up even further through the second half of the year.

The Courier-Mail and The Sunday Mail, in conjunction with the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority (CRRDA), is presenting a series looking at the project and what it will bring to the state.

Matthew Martyn-Jones, CRRDA general manager for strategy and people, said the new crossing beneath the Brisbane River would end the Merivale Bridge bottleneck currently choking the rail network, open up new investment around public transport stations and get more passengers on more trains running more often.

The route runs from Dutton Park to the Boggo Road new technology precinct to a station next door to the iconic Gabba stadium before crossing under the river to a new station sunk 30m deep below Albert St.

The Albert St station cuts walking distances to less than 800m for big clusters of potential passengers in Eagle St, the new $3.6 billion Queen's Wharf precinct, QUT and William St.

It will also hook up with the new "grand central" station at Roma St, where passengers can join long-distance travel services, the Metro and buses before continuing to the Ekka showgrounds and Bowen Hills.

"Once people are catching the train through the tunnel, and experiencing it, it will totally revolutionise the way people get around southeast Queensland," Mr Martyn-Jones said.

"It will connect the two busiest parts of the existing rail network – the Sunshine Coast line and the Gold Coast line – with a new tunnel.

"That's where all the population growth is occurring up through that northern corridor up through Caboolture and up into the Sunshine Coast and then obviously down through on the southern corridor through Logan and Beenleigh and down to the Gold Coast.

"That sector of the network currently has to go through the middle of the city across the Merivale Bridge and through the old historical stations like Roma Street and The Valley.

"That's a real pinch point, a bottleneck on the network.

"So by putting in a tunnel under the river and under the CBD and under the Gabba, you're basically giving the city heart bypass surgery for the rail network and that means you'll be able to run more trains more frequently."

The underground line will also link the Gabba with the city centre.

"It's an absolute no-brainer to have a high-capacity rail station on the doorstep of the Gabba," Mr Martyn-Jones said. "It's one of our most iconic venues to go to but it's actually very hard to get to.

"It's surrounded by busy roads Main Street, Vulture Street and Stanley Street."

Albert St is set to become the busiest station on the network when it opens, taking 70,000 passengers a day after it commences operation.

The stations on the 5km tunnel section sit as deep as 30m underground, with trains pulling up at 200m-long underground platforms.

The work has continued through the COVID-19 lockdown, with the workforce of 1800 across eight construction sites, State Development Minister Kate Jones said.

"Projects like Cross River Rail are now critical to Queensland's economic recovery," Ms Jones said.

"Queensland's largest infrastructure project is generating more than 7500 jobs, certainty for working families and thousands of contracts for local subbies at the very time we need it most, it couldn't come at a better time."

Among the army of workers on the mega-project is Boggo Road area manager Megan Wood. "It's a city-shaping project which will change Brisbane for generations to come," she said. "I can't wait to take my daughter on her first train ride through the tunnel and look forward to telling my grandchildren that I was involved in delivering this amazing project."

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> How SEQ's transport systems are about to be transformed

CROSS River Rail is a $5.4 billion project executing a vision to build a 10.2km railway line and tunnel underneath the Brisbane River.

It will run from Dutton Park to Bowen Hills and include 5.9km of twin tunnels under the river and Brisbane CBD.

It includes four new underground stations at Boggo Road, Woolloongabba, Albert Street and Roma Street.

Salisbury, Rocklea, Moorooka, Yeerongpilly, Yeronga, Fairfield, Dutton Park above-ground stations will be upgraded and Exhibition will become a year-round station.

Three new stations on the Gold Coast line will also be delivered as part of the Cross River Rail project at Pimpama, Helensvale North/Hope Island and Merrimac.

The tunnel will unclog the bottleneck of the Merivale rail bridge, which currently is the only rail crossing running through the city centre.

Cross River Rail is expected to generate thousands of jobs during its construction and nearly 1800 workers have already been employed across eight Cross River Rail work sites.

Work is already under way on the project, with two inner-city corner blocks having been cleared in Albert St to make way for construction of the first train station to be built in Brisbane's CBD in generations.

Work continues at the new and refurbished stations as well as Shorncliffe, for the new train management system and Mayne yard.

[kram0]

Its good to see the CM double checked all the locations of stations....

I tried to post a screen shot but file won't upload. They have Boggo Rd and Dutton Park in the wrong location.

[ozbob]

Thanks.

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1264334846240845824

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/MarkBaileyMP/status/1264342345702498305

[BrizCommuter]

See the CM are falling for the spin machine. Some investigative journalism that shows that there will be bottlenecks where it plugs into the rest of the network, that most of the system wide capacity upgrades are due to ETCS and not CRR, and that additional infrastructure is required to achieve proposed services would be welcome. As it is, CRR alone is only going to add a handful of additional train services to the network.

[ozbob]

Puff pieces Briz. 

[James]

"While improving service on every line"

I wasn't aware that CRR was improving capacity on the Cleveland, Springfield and Ipswich lines.

I just wish they'd be honest, I remember last election Labor touting trains every 6 minutes at Toowong once CRR is done. We already have that anyway...

[BrizCommuter]

"While improving service on every line"

I wasn't aware that CRR was improving capacity on the Cleveland, Springfield and Ipswich lines.

I just wish they'd be honest, I remember last election Labor touting trains every 6 minutes at Toowong once CRR is done. We already have that anyway...

Yep, did an article on this last year.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2019/11/check-mate-cross-river-rails-bs-ometer.html

[Stillwater]

A train every five minutes from Caboolture? Every 15 minutes from Nambour? They are drinking too much red cordial at QR and the Cross River Delivery Authority. As BrizCommuter has shown, the project has serious deficiencies in terms of the benefits it can deliver without further thinking and investment.

In the interest of fair and balanced reporting, CM should devote similar space given over to its puff pieces to BrizCommuter's research and analysis.

[ozbob]

^  i think the latest puff pieces with errors were a response to this this effort by Mr Minnikin ..

It is also possible that the CM is luring the Govt into a trap and will unleash on them later this week?

It is a very very strange place Qld politics  ... 

https://twitter.com/SteveMinnikinMP/status/1262625328716869632

Queensland Parliament Hansard
https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/hansard/2020/2020_05_19_DAILY.pdf

19 May 2020

Matters of Public Interest

Cross River Rail

Mr MINNIKIN (Chatsworth—LNP) (2.45 pm): I rise today to outline concerns in relation to the
Labor government's so-called significant infrastructure project, the Cross River Rail. This will be
south-east Queensland's biggest infrastructure project for over a decade. However, with Labor's poor
track record of project delivery, the Cross River Rail is certainly deserving of very careful oversight
before it becomes yet again another failed Labor project. Right from the beginning, this project got off
to a disappointing start and the hits have just kept coming, more recently courtesy of the state's former
'let me be perfectly clear' treasurer.

The business case for this project was released in August 2017. In its assessment of this project,
Infrastructure Australia concluded that the benefits of the proposal were significantly overstated and the
costs of the project as presented were likely to exceed its benefits. More specifically, Infrastructure
Australia considered that the estimates of the growth in rail patronage were too high and that the
network's capacity constraints could take longer to materialise. For most agencies, that kind of
assessment from the nation's independent adviser on infrastructure investments would have set off the
alarm bells, however not for this inept Labor government. Although they were encouraged to go back
and work with Infrastructure Australia in order to review the business case, the Labor government chose
to simply ignore these findings and go ahead despite the misgivings.

In February 2018, it was indicated that tunnelling work was set to begin in the second quarter of
2019; however, this was subsequently pushed back to mid-2020. Then, in 2019, the investment
property saga emerged leading to the former deputy premier and treasurer, who had carriage of the
Cross River Rail, being removed from all dealings with the project. Accordingly, the responsibility for
delivering the Cross River Rail project was shifted to a new minister, with construction works eventually
beginning in September last year. However, early in the construction phase workplace health and safety
officers identified various contraventions involving contamination from asbestos-containing material
occurring at the Albert Street site of Cross River Rail. The contraventions included—not wetting down
a site while removing 200 lineal metres of wall; workers' shoes not being decontaminated; appropriate
protection equipment not being worn (type 5 disposable overalls, P2 half face respirators); and
appropriate training not being provided to workers. While progress has been slow, tunnelling has finally
started with a road header excavating the first part of the project's Roma Street site.

The Rail Supporters Association of Queensland recently reviewed the current Cross River Rail
project and provided a report on its conclusions. Many issues were raised including—significant
capacity and operational limitations with the project which will impact the people of Queensland for
generations and which cannot be fixed except at massive cost; the project provides little or no additional
usable capacity overall to that currently available; and massive investment for capacity expansion is
required. Furthermore, it identifies serious deficiencies in the economic assessment of the Cross River
Rail as the estimated cost of delivery has been significantly and systematically understated. For any
government, let alone one with a dubious reputation for project delivery, this surely must have been
cause for review; but, again, evidently not!

Due for completion in 2024, there are growing alarms about cost blowouts and the uncertainty
surrounding this project. To add to the pressure, the Auditor-General's report No. 11 for 2019-20 relating
to Queensland government state finances highlights right on page 1 that the financial performance of
the Queensland government has reduced over the last two financial years. The report goes on to state
that debt is expected to rise over the next four years as the government commences a program of
capital works and highlights that the delivery of major infrastructure projects like CRR needs to be
closely monitored. Evidently, despite introducing nine new or increased taxes, Labor was still spending
more than it earned, and this was all well before the COVID-19 crisis arrived and not because of it.
Under Labor, public transport users have already endured the costly 'rail fail'. Queensland cannot
afford yet another project disaster with 'Cross River fail'. In terms of transparency, Labor has again
failed miserably. It has failed to release the business case for the project and failed to provide any
revised train service plan. It has underestimated that Cross River Rail is contingent on further network
improvements, including layout issues north and south of the new tunnels as well as upgrading lines
such as Cleveland and replacing level crossings. Just like the state budget, the full cost of all of the
components associated with this project continues to be hidden. In response to a recent question on
notice about the full costs, it was stated to be $5.4 billion. It has not been made clear what further costs
will be incurred with the delivery of this project. What will it cost?

[Gazza]

Dissenting opinion here, but why the focus on all the peripheral infrastructure when we are talking about CRR itself?

The point is, NONE of the improvements to other lines can occur without getting the tube in the ground first.
....It has been a battle to get to that point. The project has struggled for funding, got delayed in 2011 due to the floods, has undergone redesigns with each incoming government, it even probably would have been cancelled outright for a decade or more had the LNP got in. And a lot of people still think its an inner city subway and nothing else.

The project has always very much been about the future, and giving the network the flexibility to allow future upgrades to plug in to utilise the step increase in capacity. The project still does that and always has.

Realistically, patronage has tanked a bit, first due to fare increases, then due to rail fail and now likely due to Covid-19 so the network probably wont be under much pressure by 2025.
And as much as I'd love all other capacity constraints in the network (Eg Cleveland, Beenleigh etc) to be fixed simultaneously, the Government has never spend that much in one go.

IMO I think its better to reframe the issue on a line by line basis. For example we should be saying that "The Cleveland line wont be able to take full advantage of CRR until we build a Manly 3rd platform and/or duplicate to Cleveland"

In Summary, I don't think its fair to blame CRR for a lack of investment in the broader network.
Calling it a white elephant just gives ammo to anti PT types IMO, a few years after opening we'll be more fully utilising its capacity.

I see three possible ways of doing things.

-Build CRR, do other line upgrades at a later date (Cheaper, but not ideal because the tunnel is underutilised initally)
-Do other line upgrades first, then CRR (Not ideal because there are insufficient paths across the Merivale bridge to support the number of services a Beenleigh quad or a Cleveland duplication etc would add.
-Build CRR and do other line upgrades simultaneously (Best option, but probably not 'affordable' for the Gov)

[kram0]

OzBob, you should try and contact the 'journalist' and get them to look at the big picture.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> How Cross River Rail will change peak hour commutes

QUEENSLAND'S biggest infrastructure project will take almost 50,000 people off choked roads and cut morning peak hour train waiting times to five minutes on crucial lines serving the Gold and Sunshine coasts and Ipswich.

The $5.4 billion Cross River Rail – an underground link from Dutton Park to Bowen Hills – will end the rail bottleneck choking the southeast's train network by providing a second river crossing.

As well as paving the way for expansion projects, such as the Nambour-to-Beerburrum duplication, it will allow more trains more often.

With the southeast Queensland population forecast to grow from 3.5 million now to 4.9 million in 2036, and rail passenger demand to ­almost triple in that time, the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority (CRRDA) says its project will help get people from fast-growing outer areas to where they work closer to the city centre.

While more than 80 per cent of population growth will be outside Brisbane, and almost 1.2 million new residents settling in areas such as the Gold and Sunshine coasts, Ipswich, Moreton and Logan, 45 per cent of job growth will be inside the city limits, CRRDA said.

The new tunnel means Gold Coast, Caboolture and Ipswich commuters will have to wait only five minutes between trains, and those coming from Nambour 15 minutes, with thousands of extra seats being put on as well.

The Courier-Mail, in conjunction with the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority, is ­presenting a series looking at the project and what it will bring to the state.

Construction of the project is pouring $2.8 million a day into the Queensland economy – jumping to $4 million a day as it ramps up even further through the second half of the year – and currently employs 1800 people across eight sites.

The 10.2km line will run from Dutton Park to Bowen Hills and include 5.9km of twin tunnels under the river and Brisbane CBD and four new, underground stations at Boggo Road, Woolloongabba, Albert Street and Roma Street, as well as upgrades at other stations.

Matthew Martyn-Jones, CRRDA general manager for strategy, said the project offered a "heart bypass" that would unlock travel and open up massive new development in Brisbane's city centre.

Tereinga Pihere, 16, who we caught up with at Helensvale train station, said she was looking forward to improved services. "We always go to the beach, so we often get transport to get there," she said.

MORNING PEAK CHANGES

SUNSHINE COAST

Nambour trains every 15 minutes

450 extra seats

Extra capacity on the network to support other rail network growth projects, such as the duplication of the Sunshine Coast line between Beerburrum and Nambour

IPSWICH

Trains every five minutes from Ipswich station

1800 extra seats
Trains every 15 minutes from Rosewood station

900 extra seats

Extra capacity on the network to support other rail network growth projects, including Flagstone extension

CABOOLTURE

Trains every five minutes from Caboolture station

1800 extra seats
BAYSIDE

Trains every 5.5 minutes from Manly station

1800 extra seats
GOLD COAST

Trains every five minutes on the Gold Coast line

3150 extra seats
Beenleigh line

Trains every six minutes from Loganlea station

2700 extra seats
Trains every 15 minutes from Beenleigh station

INFORMATION: Go to crossriverrail.qld.gov.au and enter your postcode for travel benefits in your area

^ we all know these service frequencies are NOT deliverable unless there are significant network improvements, together with more trains and crew.

Very very misleading as presented.

[timh]

^ we all know these service frequencies are NOT deliverable unless there are significant network improvements.

Very very misleading as presented.

Yeah I saw those numbers in that article. Should send the BrizCommuter posts straight to CM, wonder what they'd think of the numbers then!   

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1264719667307806720

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1264719831506366465

[ozbob]

^ we all know these service frequencies are NOT deliverable unless there are significant network improvements.

Very very misleading as presented.

Yeah I saw those numbers in that article. Should send the BrizCommuter posts straight to CM, wonder what they'd think of the numbers then!   

They have been sent.  Also other material as well.  Journalism is not what it used to be.

PS. They fixed up their diagram ... 

[Gazza]

Ok but are those frequencies promised from opening day or just what the project is capable of?

[ozbob]

Ok but are those frequencies promised from opening day or just what the project is capable of?

Either way it needs to be qualified with what is really needed to deliver those service frequencies.  It is very murky. Certainly as the CM is presenting it is raising false expectations.  CRR is a bit more measured.

[BrizCommuter]

Ok but are those frequencies promised from opening day or just what the project is capable of?

I think it was 2026, but now unstated. Ultimately 4 tracks merging into 3 at the southern portal, and 6 tracks merging into 4.33 at the north end isn't good!

[ozbob]

I am very fond of double slips ... 

[Gazza]

Ok but are those frequencies promised from opening day or just what the project is capable of?

Either way it needs to be qualified with what is really needed to deliver those service frequencies.  It is very murky. Certainly as the CM is presenting it is raising false expectations.  CRR is a bit more measured.

OK but 4 tracks merge into 2 east of Milton right?

[verbatim9]

A train every five minutes from Caboolture? Every 15 minutes from Nambour? They are drinking too much red cordial at QR and the Cross River Delivery Authority. As BrizCommuter has shown, the project has serious deficiencies in terms of the benefits it can deliver without further thinking and investment.

In the interest of fair and balanced reporting, CM should devote similar space given over to its puff pieces to BrizCommuter's research and analysis.

They wouldn't be able to afford running that kind of frequency under the current operational model. Plus there wouldn't be enough trains. A Driver only model with the extra 50 trains could be possible?

[ozbob]

It's the Cross River Rail Score Card for 2020 Q2.
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2020/05/cross-river-rail-score-card-q2-2020.html

ABC Radio are interested in have a chat on air about this.  I will be doing an interview with host Rebecca Levingston ABC Radio Brisbane Mornings around 10.05 am tomorrow (26th May 2020).

Also interested in the ATO aspect of the ETCS L2 system.

^ ETCS L2 + ATO in the tunnel.  Be interesting to see if they can set it up.   

I hear there are problems with the signalling design already. After the debacle with the Redcliffe line, let's hope they can get it right.

Page 100/101 https://buildingqueensland.qld.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Chapter-5.pdf

I hope they can achieve ETCS 2 with ATO. Once a successful rollout in the tunnels it will be easier to deploy this tech throughout the network in the future.

[BrizCommuter]

I am very fond of double slips ... 

I'm more of a Switch Diamond kind of guy!

[AnonymouslyBad]

Dissenting opinion here, but why the focus on all the peripheral infrastructure when we are talking about CRR itself?

The point is, NONE of the improvements to other lines can occur without getting the tube in the ground first.
....It has been a battle to get to that point. The project has struggled for funding, got delayed in 2011 due to the floods, has undergone redesigns with each incoming government, it even probably would have been cancelled outright for a decade or more had the LNP got in. And a lot of people still think its an inner city subway and nothing else.

The project has always very much been about the future, and giving the network the flexibility to allow future upgrades to plug in to utilise the step increase in capacity. The project still does that and always has.

I agree.

Yes the government is being a bit disingenuous. They're taking your first option, and promoting what CRR will make "possible" rather than what it will achieve on day one.
The state knows full well that more upgrades will be needed later. But the reality is that financial capital is limited, and that means political capital is limited, and the options are build CRR now and upgrade it later, or not build it at all.

One can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Let's not be naive: if it wasn't necessary to carefully navigate the political minefield, CRR would have been finished, properly, 5 years ago. But that's not how it works in the real world. We're complaining that the Courier-Mail coverage is too positive, but the Courier-Mail is a famously conservative rag: what do you think would happen if $10b or $15b was committed to do all the extra upgrades as well? The opposition would have a field day, the CM would have a field day, CRR would be "dead, buried and cremated" before construction even started.

Pointing out the issues with CRR (of which there are many) will not lead to any kind of nuanced media coverage. It will lead to "white elephant, blowouts, Labor bad, BaT tunnel good". Remember that?

[Arnz]

Dissenting opinion here, but why the focus on all the peripheral infrastructure when we are talking about CRR itself?

The point is, NONE of the improvements to other lines can occur without getting the tube in the ground first.

A number of track amplifications, especially the Beerburrum to Landsborough bit doesn't require the CRR for it to proceed. 

For example constructing CRR and Beerburrum-L'sborough simultaneously within a similar timeframe would only require a simple extension of most existing Caboolture daytime terminator trains to Landsborough. 

Even had Beerburrum-L'sborough went before CRR, that would only require a simple extension of every 2nd Caboolture train to Nambour at the minimum, or 'the optimal' extension of "all" existing Caboolture daytime terminators to Landsborough with every 2nd to Nambour.  Gympie North trains would be converted to Nambour shuttles to not take up any unnecessary paths.

Courier Mail
MORNING PEAK CHANGES

SUNSHINE COAST

Nambour trains every 15 minutes

450 extra seats

#FakeNews.  Single track north of Beerburrum + balancing the counter-peak pax/long distance currently doesn't allow that for the entirety of the peak period. 

Basing that on the assumption no upgrades north of Beerburrum there are no changes to the current 18-24 min headways, so no major increase whatsover apart from maybe the 1 token service.

[ozbob]

Yes on the mark Arnz. 

Using CRR as they do as a precursor to the Sunshine line upgrade that was actually commenced in 2009 (Beerburrum > Landsborough) but stopped because of crass politics is also very disingenuous. 

They didn't have the same ' requirement ' for the Helensvale / Coomera duplication hey?

I am not going to sit back and pretend all is well when it is obviously not.   Pointing out the projected service levels will require a lot of additional network capacity enhancements is the correct thing to do.  To pretend it will not is just folly and being just as disingenuous as the rest of them ...

[Gazza]

Yes on the mark Arnz. 

Using CRR as they do as a precursor to the Sunshine line upgrade that was actually commenced in 2009 (Beerburrum > Landsborough) but stopped because of crass politics is also very disingenuous. 

They didn't have the same ' requirement ' for the Helensvale / Coomera duplication hey?

I am not going to sit back and pretend all is well when it is obviously not.   Pointing out the projected service levels will require a lot of additional network capacity enhancements is the correct thing to do.  To pretend it will not is just folly and being just as disingenuous as the rest of them ...

CRR can accommodate 24 trains per hour.
It's never going to be that straight away. The Merivale Bridge didn't run anywhere near full capacity on opening day, nor did the CBD tunnels done in the 90s.
To me this discussion is a bit like calling the Merivale Bridge a white elephant because the budget for the bridge didn't include the SMUs and the Ferny Grove duplication to make full use of it in the (then) distant future..

How far do we go? Do we need to account for everything that might contribute to peak demand on CRR. Is it a white elephant without Camcos or a Beaudesert line or the Coolangatta extension.?

The CM is a famously negative rag that quite often garbles phrasings and figures when it comes to infrastructure projects. As AnyonymouslyBad said, its going to be impossible to have a nuanced discussion about this through the CM.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
The reality is the project is already unpopular in regional Qld because of its cost and seemingly city focus.

If its subject to endless negativity, don't kid yourself, people will just look at the headline and think the whole thing is bad, and pay zero attention to the fact that it's specific constraints on specific lines that are the real problem.

My view is that we should get back to the fundamental issue: the lack of track amplification, rather than drag CRR through the mud.

It's entirely possible to frame the discussion in terms of saying "The Government cannot provide X trains per hour to the GC or Cleveland without doing X". That's the real issue.

and the options are build CRR now and upgrade it later, or not build it at all.

So do we want this??

[ozbob]

Which is my point entirely, the lack of track amplifications is really the issue.

I have been supporting Cross River Rail since  c 2007, when I was shown by Campbell Newman an early plan which actually had the tunnel up near Eagle Street interestingly.  Personally, I don't have any issues with the tunnel or the stations per se.  It is the rest of the network.

[Gazza]

Agreed.

But the narrative (Often adopted by the opposition and rags like the CM) is that the "real" cost CRR is being hidden because every last peripheral project hasn't been included.

A great political strategy that people are falling hook line and sinker for.
Want to re-run a stereotypical story about "Labors cost blow outs"? Easy. Just think of everything that could potentially relate to CRR to fluff up the cost.

Trains, amplifications, operational costs for an arbitrary number of years, you name it.

As far as I'm concerned, the "true cost of CRR" is the tunnel/stations/approach tracks that acts as an open ended funnel to run 24 tph through the core. Nothing else.
How future goverments/ operators utilise the tunnel is up to them.

I'm not counting signalling upgrades outside of the tie in.

I'm not counting station upgrades (These have to be legally done CRR or not)

I'm not counting rolling stock (If CRR didn't happen and we were doing ungodly stuff like GC via Corinda instead to try and meet demand we'd still need new trains)

[Gazza]

#FakeNews.  Single track north of Beerburrum + balancing the counter-peak pax/long distance currently doesn't allow that for the entirety of the peak period. 

Basing that on the assumption no upgrades north of Beerburrum there are no changes to the current 18-24 min headways, so no major increase whatsover apart from maybe the 1 token service.

But the SC duplication is confirmed funded to Landsborough at least right?