Cross River Rail Project

[timh]

https://www.facebook.com/317856871906116/posts/952619605096503/

^so I'm not fully following here. Can someone tell me they they need to drill boreholes south of Dutton park? Why would they need to be drilling boreholes to test the mineral makeup super deep between Fairfield and Salisbury when the stations will be at surface level?

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[red dragin]

They'd need to check to find bedrock for any retaining wall structures, overbridges, probably the track bed too. Pretty much anything new to be built.

Residential house sites need soil sampling to ensure the footings are built to suit the ground conditions.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/JoshBavas/status/1184611918557827073

The money would have been handy for bus service improvements ...   

[dancingmongoose]

Went to the community consultation at Pimpama City today, asked them a few questions

• The name Helensvale North is not set in stone and may change as renaming it to Hope Island has come up a lot
• Asked about bus services here, response was that it's up to Translink though they have provided bus facilities
• Moorooka platform 3, was told that the current design probably isn't ideal and will likely change
• Asked about whether there was any plan to fast track Pimpama, answer was no but as that's up to the government of the day it may change and they'd be happy if it was

Was a good chat

[ozbob]

Thanks DMG.  Moorooka needs correction!  🏋

[SurfRail]

I'm most likely going to Pimpama on Saturday so if anybody has any queries they want relayed let me know.

I'm especially interested in how they think the track configuration will work.

[BrizCommuter]

Yes, it's a very rare new BrizCommuter article - looking at one of CRR's major Achilles Heels - the Beenleigh Line Corridor.
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2019/10/cross-river-rails-achilles-heel.html

[verbatim9]

Yes, it's a very rare new BrizCommuter article - looking at one of CRR's major Achilles Heels - the Beenleigh Line Corridor.
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2019/10/cross-river-rails-achilles-heel.html

If Libs get in? Robot could push for Alstom trains built in Perth to top up the potential shortfall in trains for CRR and the overall network. They can be delivered via the freight line across the country. I am sure the specs of the trains would meet ETCS level 2 (semi automatic) (Driver only) and the gauge is also the same. Being built in WA it would be easy to ensure quality control for Qld specs. How many do we need another 60 6 car sets? Plus 20 9 car sets?

Having 2 competing train builders on the network is good for over competition.

[ozbob]

Yes, it's a very rare new BrizCommuter article - looking at one of CRR's major Achilles Heels - the Beenleigh Line Corridor.
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2019/10/cross-river-rails-achilles-heel.html

Thanks Briz.  Sent to all outlets &

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1187956865495228417

[BrizCommuter]

There will be two articles forthcoming, one on the constraints between Mayne and Northgate, and the other on the false benefit claims (in fact damn right lies) made on CRR's website. It seems that CRR is now so half-baked, and with associated infrastructure not forthcoming, that the only benefits of CRR that can be directly attributed to CRR (and not ETCS) will be a 6tph increase in peak Gold Coast services, and even that might not be achievable.

[timh]

Yes, it's a very rare new BrizCommuter article - looking at one of CRR's major Achilles Heels - the Beenleigh Line Corridor.
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2019/10/cross-river-rails-achilles-heel.html

Great post Brizcommuter. The triple track between Dutton park and Kuraby is an obvious constraint and is pretty apparent to seemingly everyone but those in charge. It's very worrying that they have nothing planned to fix it either. I hope your article gets some of the right attention

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[Bretto1082]

Yes, it's a very rare new BrizCommuter article - looking at one of CRR's major Achilles Heels - the Beenleigh Line Corridor.
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2019/10/cross-river-rails-achilles-heel.html

If Libs get in? Robot could push for Alstom trains built in Perth to top up the potential shortfall in trains for CRR and the overall network. They can be delivered via the freight line across the country. I am sure the specs of the trains would meet ETCS level 2 (semi automatic) (Driver only) and the gauge is also the same. Being built in WA it would be easy to ensure quality control for Qld specs. How many do we need another 60 6 car sets? Plus 20 9 car sets?

Having 2 competing train builders on the network is good for over competition.

Just because the it is built doo for one network/operator does not mean it can run doo for another. The qr network must have a sign off from the the onrsr to approve doo before hand hence why Ngr was never able to be ran as doo even though can do wanted it to be

[BrizCommuter]

Part 2 in the series looking at Cross River Rail's Achilles Heel - Northside
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2019/10/cross-river-rails-achilles-heel-part-2.html

[ozbob]

Part 2 in the series looking at Cross River Rail's Achilles Heel - Northside
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2019/10/cross-river-rails-achilles-heel-part-2.html

Thanks again Briz.  Sent to all outlets &

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1189194261792559104

[Stillwater]

Note that the State Government now refers to CRR as being a $6 billion project.

[BrizCommuter]

Note that the State Government now refers to CRR as being a $6 billion project.

So even worse value for money now!

[ozbob]

The lack of proper work on the rest of the network to support Cross River Rail is a huge blunder of course. 

Beyond the direct responsibilities of the CRRDA. 

This blunder has TMR thumbprints all over it .. worse than the NGR DDA botch.

[timh]

Part 2 in the series looking at Cross River Rail's Achilles Heel - Northside
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2019/10/cross-river-rails-achilles-heel-part-2.html

Another great post Brizcommuter!

Trouts road line is 100% necessary to unlock capacity on the Northside, especially when CAMCOS comes into effect. I can't see CAMCOS services running on the existing tracks from Mayne to Strathpine.

Connecting trouts road line to CRR with a tunnel, also a great idea. However I would put stations at Red Hill and Ashgrove. Ashgrove has pretty poor PT connections and Kelvin Grove (as per your design) already has a busway station.

I'm also coming to realise that the original plan for CRR with a tunnel surfacing at Yeerongpilly was a much better plan. Greatly increased southside capacity and also allowed for Ipswich/Springfield/Toowoomba etc bound trains to use CRR (via Tennyson). Starting to get worried about the current plan...

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[ozbob]

^ correct conclusion Tim.  The present iteration of Cross River Rail is very much a compromise, and in so doing it is arguable if it is even worth doing.  It can be argued that a  full roll out of ETCS L2, with selected track layout improvements including duplications and better turnbacks etc.  would deliver the same frequency improvements that will be gained from CRR.  The only good thing about the present CRR is that there will be a couple of new stations in the CBD and at the 'Gabba.

IA had CRR at the highest priority project when it was from Yeerongpilly.  The current iteration has lost that priority.  Hence the State bumbling along crying poor, more out of political stubbornness than a proper understanding of network requirements.

I will add, we are basically stuck with this version of CRR however there are some people working quietly away endeavouring to make the most of the situation and trying to drive the necessary network improvements that will hopefully improve the functional outcomes of this version of CRR. 

All is not lost, just yet.

[SurfRail]

Look, the core assets are going to be fine.  There is no big deal with the way the tunnels are being configured, even at the southern end.  It is a hell of a lot easier to fix the surface and approach works than anything underground.

Trouts Rd doesn't require stubs, even back to 2012 the intended connection was always going to be dives in the Ekka loop outbound from the northern dives.  I'm also reticent to see any more good money thrown down the toilet that is the existing alignment south of Dutton Park, beyond adding platform faces and signalling upgrades.  The Gold Coast service needs to be a hell of a lot faster and no amount of track amplification of the current route will fix that, it needs to be a new line and how and where that interfaces with CRR is entirely outside the scope of the project as it stands.

[ozbob]

Indeed, fast rail to both the Sunshine and Gold Coasts will require new lines from Brisbane to Beenleigh (Gold Coast) and Brisbane to Strathpine (Sunshine Coast).  The existing  middle / inner northern and southern lines are simply not suitable for fast rail.

[Gazza]

Bob I think CRR is worth doing, because the key thing is having the hole in the ground that we can find ways to use in the coming decades, and signalling upgrades just don't offer the step increase in capacity.
And in the short term, it offers some increase in capacity, which will probably do us for a few years because rail fail and fares policy did such a good job at slowing demand growth anyway.

Track amplifications to the north and the south will come, but they'll be attached to the projects that actually need them, in the same way the Ipswich line only had upgrades to permit the Springfield line to be built.

[Gazza]

Cant be bothered doing any images at this point, but a direct line from Roma St to Alderley is 4km, an alternative alignment from an above ground connection east of Normanby is 5km. Ideal? Maybe not, but probably won't make a difference for a few reasons.

Basically, I question the need for a heavy rail station at Kelvin Grove to begin with. Its getting a metro, and wouldn't really do much as an interchange that Roma St won't be doing already.
Skipping that station saves time.

Victoria Park Golf Course is reportedly being turned into a public park.
After the CRR portal, I would swing the tracks over the ICB, and cut and cover through the new park, parallel to Gilchrist Avenue.

Once you get to around Herston, Run in a tunnel on an axis that passes under Ballymore and surfaces at Newmarket Station, That tunnel only needs to be about 2km.

Essentially, what this segment is doing is just avoiding taking the line on a cooks tour through Windsor and Mayne.

then quad the FG line between Newmarket and Alderley and remove the two level crossings, and upgrade one of the stations to have 4 platforms.

After Alderly, tunnel for 2km to avoid all the houses and emerge at the start of the NWTC.

[ozbob]

... I'm also reticent to see any more good money thrown down the toilet that is the existing alignment south of Dutton Park, beyond adding platform faces and signalling upgrades.  The Gold Coast service needs to be a hell of a lot faster and no amount of track amplification of the current route will fix that, it needs to be a new line and how and where that interfaces with CRR is entirely outside the scope of the project as it stands.

The state wants to do a bit though.  And unless they do, the proposed frequencies post CRR will not be achieved.

>> https://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/map/gold-coast-rail-line-capacity-improvement-kuraby-beenleigh

[timh]

Look, the core assets are going to be fine.  There is no big deal with the way the tunnels are being configured, even at the southern end.  It is a hell of a lot easier to fix the surface and approach works than anything underground.

Trouts Rd doesn't require stubs, even back to 2012 the intended connection was always going to be dives in the Ekka loop outbound from the northern dives.  I'm also reticent to see any more good money thrown down the toilet that is the existing alignment south of Dutton Park, beyond adding platform faces and signalling upgrades.  The Gold Coast service needs to be a hell of a lot faster and no amount of track amplification of the current route will fix that, it needs to be a new line and how and where that interfaces with CRR is entirely outside the scope of the project as it stands.

Do you have any documentation/plans with those details about the alignment for the Trouts road corridor interfacing with Ekka loop? I'd be very interested to see them!

Regarding capacity south of Dutton park, my concerns are less regarding GC line capacity and more about capacity for Beaudesert line/additional Western line extensions (Springfield-Ripley, Toowoomba, etc.). We've all pretty much established at this point that Beenleigh line alignment is not suitable for fast GC rail going forward.

Regarding the Trouts road line interfacing with CRR I feel like that can be accomplished without the Tunnel stubs. The idea Gazza proposed of a tunnel portal in Victoria park is a pretty good idea. For southern capacity though capacity between Dutton Park + Salisbury has to be addressed. I doubt that in future a new tunnel can be built to the original Yeerongpilly location so the works would have to be done at surface, which we've already established would be quite difficult. Hence my concerns. I expect after CRR when the next round of projects are being looked at, that stretch between Salisbury/Dutton park is going to be the biggest problem.

[red dragin]

Why not tunnel Mayne North Yard to Felstead St/Trouts Rd Everton Park (beginning of the clear path of the NWTC - no resumptions), with a stop at Stafford Shopping Centre and give some heavy rail coverage to areas without heavy rail. It is about 5.9km as the crow flies.

[aldonius]

Regarding Mayne North... I'd prefer that tunnel portals be in locations that aren't subject to riverine flooding where possible.

While the tunnel would basically parallel the tracks Alderley-Newmarket, I don't think it's worth surfacing there. You'd need to dive at or before Alderley anyway... unless you want to keep climbing, and go elevated to well north of Stafford Rd.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Cross River Rail: Electrical Trades Union calls for all work to stop over 'dirty deals, laziness, cost blowouts and dysfunction'

A powerful Queensland union has demanded all work on the $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project be halted over accusations of "dirty deals, laziness, cost blowouts and dysfunction".

A POWERFUL Queensland union has demanded all work on the $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project be halted with simmering tensions over industrial negotiations exploding into the public domain.

Electrical Trades Union state secretary Peter Ong has accused the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority of overseeing "dirty deals, laziness, cost blowouts and dysfunction".

"Our members have lost all respect and trust in the CRRDA," Mr Ong said.

"It's an oxymoron to have delivery in their name. Our members don't trust them to deliver a kebab let alone one of the single biggest infrastructure projects in the state."

There are growing fears that progress on the Palaszczuk Government's signature public transport initiative will ground to a halt amid a looming dispute between a number of unions and the consortium awarded the project, CPB.

It is understood other influential unions are livid that CPB was allowed to do a deal with the Australian Workers Union.

Mr Ong accused CRRDA of "gross incompetence", saying it allowed CPB to sign a deal which "undercut wages and conditions behind our members' backs".

"The project must be halted immediately, no further work completed, no further contracts signed and the CRRDA disbanded so we can fix the IR and cost blow outs mess," he said.

"We will not accept substandard industrial agreements that fall well short of comparable agreements elsewhere.

"This Government must facilitate a fair bargaining process to ensure there is a single project agreement covering all unions on the site.

"Failure to do so will leave the ETU and our members with no option but to campaign throughout the five years of the project."

Comment is being sought from Cross River Rail Minister Kate Jones.

[ozbob]

The CRRDA Board

>> https://crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/about/our-people/

[Gazza]

Just sounds like grandstanding by the ETU, sour that they didn't get everything they demanded so they want to upend the table.

[verbatim9]

Just sounds like grandstanding by the ETU, sour that they didn't get everything they demanded so they want to upend the table.

Sounds like the pre Comm Games (CFMEU demands) with work on the Stadium and surrounding site. It ended up not to be justified claims by the union. They were reprimanded as a result.

[SurfRail]

Look, the core assets are going to be fine.  There is no big deal with the way the tunnels are being configured, even at the southern end.  It is a hell of a lot easier to fix the surface and approach works than anything underground.

Trouts Rd doesn't require stubs, even back to 2012 the intended connection was always going to be dives in the Ekka loop outbound from the northern dives.  I'm also reticent to see any more good money thrown down the toilet that is the existing alignment south of Dutton Park, beyond adding platform faces and signalling upgrades.  The Gold Coast service needs to be a hell of a lot faster and no amount of track amplification of the current route will fix that, it needs to be a new line and how and where that interfaces with CRR is entirely outside the scope of the project as it stands.

Do you have any documentation/plans with those details about the alignment for the Trouts road corridor interfacing with Ekka loop? I'd be very interested to see them!

Regarding capacity south of Dutton park, my concerns are less regarding GC line capacity and more about capacity for Beaudesert line/additional Western line extensions (Springfield-Ripley, Toowoomba, etc.). We've all pretty much established at this point that Beenleigh line alignment is not suitable for fast GC rail going forward.

Regarding the Trouts road line interfacing with CRR I feel like that can be accomplished without the Tunnel stubs. The idea Gazza proposed of a tunnel portal in Victoria park is a pretty good idea. For southern capacity though capacity between Dutton Park + Salisbury has to be addressed. I doubt that in future a new tunnel can be built to the original Yeerongpilly location so the works would have to be done at surface, which we've already established would be quite difficult. Hence my concerns. I expect after CRR when the next round of projects are being looked at, that stretch between Salisbury/Dutton park is going to be the biggest problem.

I don't have ready access to it, but there was a drawing done (possibly part of the reference design for CRR Mk 1 pre-2012) which had words to the effect of "NWTC connection" somewhere near the Victoria Park land bridge, and might even have had some indicative drawings.  It should be available somewhere (maybe using Wayback).

[HappyTrainGuy]

Regarding Mayne North... I'd prefer that tunnel portals be in locations that aren't subject to riverine flooding where possible.

While the tunnel would basically parallel the tracks Alderley-Newmarket, I don't think it's worth surfacing there. You'd need to dive at or before Alderley anyway... unless you want to keep climbing, and go elevated to well north of Stafford Rd.

If you go via the ferny Grove line you might as well send them via Northgate with a quad and rework Zillmere's alignment as a lot of the track there is already 80-100kph.

[Gazza]

Yeah. i was thinking if you go via mayne it's getting much longer because its becoming even more of a bulge in the line to the east.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Cross River Rail digs up the past

A PERFUME bottle created in honour of Queen Victoria, a gin bottle from the 1880s and a primitive jar of Vegemite are among the artefacts recovered as excavation begins for Cross River Rail.

And more historic finds are anticipated over the next six months as work ramps up on the $5.4 billion project's Albert St site – home to the city's old Chinese quarter.

Cross River Rail Minister Kate Jones said work on four new underground stations required the most extensive tunnelling work the city had ever seen on a major infrastructure project, with excavation reaching 40m underground.

Ms Jones revealed some of the discoveries at the Woolloongabba site on Sunday.

"We are unlocking Brisbane's history through this future project," she said.

"We have, for example, old castor oil bottles – glad that's gone out of fashion – and also old toothpaste bottles as well as some of the very first editions of The Crown perfume that was created by Queen Victoria, the Queen who named our state of Queensland."

Niche Environment and Heritage archaeologist Dr Kevin Rains said most of the artefacts were from overseas but some were local, like 100-year-old shoes and a cobbler's anvil from a long-ago business.

"They tell a slice of history of the local residents of Brisbane from about the 1870s, 1880s through to about 1910 and it shows us what they were consuming, what they were interested in," Dr Rains said.

"The Albert St site is going to be very interesting because that's part of the old Chinese quarter from the 1870s through to the early 1900s so we're hoping to find some of their artefacts relating to the Chinese residents of that period."

All items will be donated to the Queensland Museum, with some likely to be passed to local historical societies.

[#Metro]

"We have, for example, old castor oil bottles – glad that's gone out of fashion – and also old toothpaste bottles as well as some of the very first editions of The Crown perfume that was created by Queen Victoria, the Queen who named our state of Queensland."

The Crown Perfume? Created by Queen Victoria?

There is a picture of the toothpaste box

Archaeologists find Queen Victoria-inspired perfume under future Woolloongabba Cross River Rail station
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-03/discoveries-of-artefacts-under-cross-river-rail-site/11667486

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommuter looks at the claimed benefits of CRR on their website.
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2019/11/check-mate-cross-river-rails-bs-ometer.html

[#Metro]

^ Hey Brizcommuter, if your claims check out, maybe they should pull the website.

[BrizCommuter]

^ Hey Brizcommuter, if your claims check out, maybe they should pull the website.

They should pull it, it's exceedingly misleading.

[ozbob]

BrizCommuter looks at the claimed benefits of CRR on their website.
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2019/11/check-mate-cross-river-rails-bs-ometer.html

Thanks Briz ... 

Sent to all outlets & 

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1192106704353103872