Cross River Rail Project

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1170162664577699840

Cross River Rail --> EXCLUSIVE: Cross River Rail train campaign revealed

A train-manufacturing workforce in a small Queensland town could be on track to secure one of the State Government's most high-profile contracts - the Cross River Rail.

By Christian Berechree, Fraser Coast Chronicle

A LUCRATIVE State Government train-building contract could help secure Maryborough's status as a manufacturing powerhouse.

News Corp Australia can reveal negotiations are under way to build trains for the Cross River Rail project at Downer's Maryborough factory.

Maryborough MP Bruce Saunders said he had long advocated for the Heritage City to be chosen to boost the state's train fleet.

"I've been promoting Maryborough for Cross River Rail constantly since it was announced," Mr Saunders said.

"We're going to need more trains in the future because once Cross River Rail is built, more people are going to be using the trains than ever."

Negotiations with top-ranking politicians, including deputy premier Jackie Trad and Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey, continue, Mr Saunders said.

"I've been chewing deputy premier Jackie Trad's ear off incessantly about the future and the extra trains we're going to need," he said.

He said the response to his push had been "very positive."

has been up here three times to look at the trains," Mr Saunders said.

Mr Saunders, who was instrumental in securing the $330million NGR train-modification contract for the Maryborough factory, said he had discussed the Cross River Rail project with Downer leaders.

"I've had some great talks with Downer and you can't beat the trains Downer builds," he said.

While Downer representatives could not provide details of the negotiations at this stage, a spokesperson said the company was building its workforce to support future train contracts.

"Downer is committed to supporting sustainable jobs in regional Queensland through our rail manufacturing facility in Maryborough," the spokesperson said.

"With the recently announced recruitment of 12 new apprentices for 2020, we continue to reshape our workforce to support current and future contracts."

A spokesperson for Mr Bailey said no decision had been made about the need for additional trains but the government was "committed to rail manufacturing jobs in the Heritage City."

"Transport and Main Roads staff continue to plan for future network requirements as projects like the Beerburrum to Nambour rail duplication, Cross River Rail, and Kuraby to Beenleigh rail upgrade.

"This planning includes whether any additional trains will be required," the spokesperson said.

"The Palaszczuk Government will make sure that when new trains are required, they'll provide jobs for Queenslanders."

[AnonymouslyBad]

And at least we know for sure that new trains are coming!

I mean, it seemed impossible there wouldn't be, but nothing's impossible after #railfail. 

[#Metro]

Why not build the trains in Logan?

[achiruel]

Why not build the trains in Logan?

At what facility?

Also I noticed mentioned in the article the Kuraby to Beenleigh upgrade. What exactly does DTMR have planned in that corridor?

[#Metro]

Construct one

[STB]

Construct one

That makes no sense.  Maryborough has been a rail building town for decades and is a major source of employment for locals up there, regional areas need employment as well.  Logan has easy access to Brisbane and the Gold Coast in other forms of employment, no need to build something that's already done and done well in Maryborough.

[Gazza]

Yeah metro could you stop being stupid.

Australia cannot support building a new train factory everywhere that wants one to create jobs.

Downer EDI is well established, and has already shed jobs once, which was a bit of a hit to Maryborough.

A train building facility in Logan in preference to giving work to an established one would not only cost more, it would be political suicide.

[#Metro]

But why not have Brisbane trains built in Brisbane? or at least SEQ?

Factories can always move. Maybe the Queensland Government can put a special subsidy/grant for the company and its employees to move.

After all, they gave money to Virgin Australia and companies that make movies like Thor Ragnarok to move here.

Perhaps a facility could go into Ipswich or surrounds?? Would be popular politically there...

[ozbob]

Maryborough will be the location. 

[Gazza]

But why not have Brisbane trains built in Brisbane? or at least SEQ?

Factories can always move. Maybe the Queensland Government can put a special subsidy/grant for the company and its employees to move.

After all, they gave money to Virgin Australia and companies that make movies like Thor Ragnarok to move here.

Perhaps a facility could go into Ipswich or surrounds?? Would be popular politically there...

Irrationally flogging a dead horse, who would win?

#Metro or Verbatim9?

[Gazza]

But why not have Brisbane trains built in Brisbane? or at least SEQ?

Because that's entirely arbitrary

Factories can always move.

Usually they only move factories when they want to take jobs to a country with lower wages, or consolidating operations
For someone who bangs on about using existing infrastructure and not wasting money, the notion that you'd scrap a factory and build a replica is not like you at all

Maybe the Queensland Government can put a special subsidy/grant for the company and its employees to move.

Oh cool, so not only does the government pay for the cost of relocating the factory, it has to pay for the costs of relocating and disrupting lives, and the the cost of losing experienced employees who don't want to relocate.
At least Thor and Virgin created jobs. Your proposing hundreds of millions to create no new jobs.


after all, they gave money to Virgin Australia and companies that make movies like Thor Ragnarok to move here.

Yes, they brought jobs to Qld, not re arranging jobs within the same state

Perhaps a facility could go into Ipswich or surrounds?? Would be popular politically there...

No, it might be politically popular in one seat, meanwhile it just worsens the perception that only SEQ matters, and would be seen as an irrational bit of pork barrelling, and deliberately harming a country town.

[#Metro]

 

[HappyTrainGuy]

 

[Gazza]

Oh so you were just being a dh and trolling then?

[ozbob]

From https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10227.msg225985#msg225985

David Bannister Report into Cross River Rail - Design Flaws

At the conclusion of the meeting I presented the Federal Minister with a copy of a report prepared by Mr David Bannister, a highly experienced rail infrastructure expert who now works as a Consultant for the UK Govt. His report highlights major flaws in the current design of Queensland's Cross River Rail.
This report was also handed to the Queensland Treasury representative (in lieu of the Hon Jackie Trad MP, Deputy Premier of Queensland and Treasurer, and Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Partnerships).

The report itemises serious issues that have been raised with the Queensland Co-ordinator General in June 2019, but were ignored in the department's response.
Amongst other issues, these design flaws impair the ability of Cross River Rail to improve service levels to the Sunshine Coast.

[SurfRail]

It should be much less of an issue in future.  The NGR order involved a very high rate delivery tempo to replace block obsolescence of the EMUs and ICEs, and to grow the fleet rapidly.  If they have a more sustainable schedule (ie not 2 x 6 car trains a month for 3 years) they should be able to manage.

If the next order is for say 50 new 6 x car trains (300 cars) over the 5 years from 2022 to 2027, I expect that would be a lot more palatable to them.  That would let everything older than IMU161 be retired by 2027 while still growing the fleet, meaning the oldest train would be 20 years old.

[#Metro]

Has the opposition got a copy of the Bannister report?

[ozbob]

Has the opposition got a copy of the Bannister report?

I am sure they will have soon.  My concerns were dismissed as well, but hey I am just a mug punter ...   

[ozbob]

It should be much less of an issue in future.  The NGR order involved a very high rate delivery tempo to replace block obsolescence of the EMUs and ICEs, and to grow the fleet rapidly.  If they have a more sustainable schedule (ie not 2 x 6 car trains a month for 3 years) they should be able to manage.

If the next order is for say 50 new 6 x car trains (300 cars) over the 5 years from 2022 to 2027, I expect that would be a lot more palatable to them.  That would let everything older than IMU161 be retired by 2027 while still growing the fleet, meaning the oldest train would be 20 years old.

Mature and rational.  Thanks.  I think it is the good timing for Maryborough.   

[aldonius]

The other interesting question is what about the extra middle cars for 9-car services? Presumably that's well beyond the 5 year horizon...

But it does also raise the question of will the new Gold Coast stations, like the CRR stations proper, be built with 9-car platforms (or at least designed for easy extension)?

[verbatim9]

The other interesting question is what about the extra middle cars for 9-car services? Presumably that's well beyond the 5 year horizon...

But it does also raise the question of will the new Gold Coast stations, like the CRR stations proper, be built with 9-car platforms (or at least designed for easy extension)?

No doubt the new proposed Loganlea Station will built to 9car standard.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The other interesting question is what about the extra middle cars for 9-car services? Presumably that's well beyond the 5 year horizon...

But it does also raise the question of will the new Gold Coast stations, like the CRR stations proper, be built with 9-car platforms (or at least designed for easy extension)?

Depends on who is in and whose cheque book is on the counter as it all can be cut in a instant.

[Gazza]

So long as you have a straight piece of track 9 cars long, it doesn't matter if loganlea only is built with 6 car platforms initially.

[verbatim9]

So long as you have a straight piece of track 9 cars long, it doesn't matter if loganlea only is built with 6 car platforms initially.

It's always more expensive to retrofit than build with the initial project.  Steve Minnikin MP is not a fan of retrofitting. So don't expect the LNP to unnecessarily retrofit all the dodgy past projects. (Do it once, do it good, then move on)

[SurfRail]

The 3 new Gold Coast stations are either on straights (Pimpama and Hope Island) or on a slight curve (Merrimac), assuming they end up at the preserved location sites.  New construction in the last 10 years (so Varsity Lakes station, the Springfield and the Kippa-Ring lines) have finally left behind the traditional method of platform construction in Qld which involved building up with fill - all you do is tack on another 30m extra or so at both ends and the work is done.  Signal locations would need to be updated in places and Robina is probably only going to be extended at the south end, but the actual station works shouldn't be any fuss.

[SABB]

So long as you have a straight piece of track 9 cars long, it doesn't matter if loganlea only is built with 6 car platforms initially.

It's always more expensive to retrofit than build with the initial project.  Steve Minnikin MP is not a fan of retrofitting. So don't expect the LNP to unnecessarily retrofit all the dodgy past projects. (Do it once, do it good, than move on)

QR's project managers don't follow that thought train.   They are very mindful of project creep.
During the 3rd Road project to Petrie, the surveyors pointed out that the 3rd road alignment was quite close to the western property boundary. While there was room to do the 4th road earthworks at the same time, it would not be possible to do this work (within the existing corridor) at a later date because of the restrictions on building near the 3rd road if it was an operating railway. Their suggestion was to do the 4th road earthworks at the same time.
I believe that the project manager's response was "His job is to complete the 3rd road project On Time and On Budget and if that meant that the 4th road could not be built at a later date, it was not his responsibility".

[Stillwater]

Yep, that's the attitude -- hence the response re CRR and the desirability of works included in that project that would allow for NWTC link.   

[achiruel]

Well, I guess what can we expect when the man at the top is completely clueless?

If Minnikin is genuinely against retrofitting (and assuming he maintains the Transport portfolio after the election) it might be enough to sway my vote.

[HappyTrainGuy]

So long as you have a straight piece of track 9 cars long, it doesn't matter if loganlea only is built with 6 car platforms initially.

It's always more expensive to retrofit than build with the initial project.  Steve Minnikin MP is not a fan of retrofitting. So don't expect the LNP to unnecessarily retrofit all the dodgy past projects. (Do it once, do it good, than move on)

QR's project managers don't follow that thought train.   They are very mindful of project creep.
During the 3rd Road project to Petrie, the surveyors pointed out that the 3rd road alignment was quite close to the western property boundary. While there was room to do the 4th road earthworks at the same time, it would not be possible to do this work (within the existing corridor) at a later date because of the restrictions on building near the 3rd road if it was an operating railway. Their suggestion was to do the 4th road earthworks at the same time.
I believe that the project manager's response was "His job is to complete the 3rd road project On Time and On Budget and if that meant that the 4th road could not be built at a later date, it was not his responsibility".

That arose around the same time that the yes men came in when it was corporatised and things got shuffled around in the early 90's. And that pretty much spawned from treasury who would cut funding/push dates back on other projects to make up the shortfall. Compare the city network with the profit making side which used the same planners/designers and you'll see there was a slight difference in what was getting pushed through. We also saw this with the Corinda-Darra upgrade as part of the Springfield extension when treasury put a halt to some extra planning.

Well, I guess what can we expect when the man at the top is completely clueless?

If Minnikin is genuinely against retrofitting (and assuming he maintains the Transport portfolio after the election) it might be enough to sway my vote.

Sorry to remind you. LNP were responsible for the issues with the NGR mess, L2P (Lawnton infrastructure relocation works, bridge duplication and Petrie station modifications), MBRL (signalling and active transport links/connections), Springfield (active transport links/connections), I think IMU ATP was also another project halted and a few other things here and there.

AFAIK the 3 car expansions are the same design as the existing NGR's but with the cab end removed and production can start pretty quickly.

[#Metro]

Sorry to remind you. LNP were responsible for the issues with the NGR mess, L2P (Lawnton infrastructure relocation works, bridge duplication and Petrie station modifications), MBRL (signalling and active transport links/connections), Springfield (active transport links/connections), I think IMU ATP was also another project halted and a few other things here and there.

AFAIK the 3 car expansions are the same design as the existing NGR's but with the cab end removed and production can start pretty quickly.

Part of the problem back them was the three year term and each team cancelling the other team's version of CRR.

10 years later...

Plus the lack of rational planning - it's all about whatever gets through the political process and is still functional after all of that.

Good thing we have four-year terms now... Things can move.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Not quite. CRR maybe. But it doesn't explain the botching of other projects. Active transport and pedestrian links were removed in 2 projects which had nothing to do with crr but involved pedestrian bridges and tunnels around stations ie richlands. Petrie had future and NWTC provisions removed (against qr's original planned design) which also has the extra effect of the drama in the dakabin stabling starters/terminators removed. Strathpine station terminus was removed in favour of extending that to petrie which would also remove dead running and express patterns for petrie north services. There was $$$ savings at the time but it will cost more in the long run. Both parties are guilty of this as they treat the railways as a voting tool.

[verbatim9]

Video shows walk-through of proposed Albert St train station and plaza

Brisbanetimes.com.au------>https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/queensland/video-shows-walk-through-of-proposed-albert-st-train-station-and-plaza-20190910-p52puw.html

[aldonius]

Note the nine-car train...

[verbatim9]

Note the nine-car train...

Yes, saw that.

[Stillwater]

Are those escalators wide enough for a nine-car train?  What about public safety?  What happens in the event of an electricity blackout?  I assume there must be emergency stairs built into the design in the event of a mass evacuation event.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1171565802266353664

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/CrossRiverRail/status/1172038911897395202

[timh]

https://twitter.com/CrossRiverRail/status/1172038911897395202

Note they very clearly didn't use the word "temporary" when referring to the coach terminal. More and more I feel like this will be a permanent setup. I've got no problem with that, this seems fine

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[STB]

Apparently it's due to open in 4 days time (16th September), to which I assume they will soon begin looking at starting the demolition of Roma Street Transit Centre itself - and guessing that there will soon be some sort of announcement of changes to ped and bus routes to enable the demolition.

[Golliwog]

Apparently it's due to open in 4 days time (16th September), to which I assume they will soon begin looking at starting the demolition of Roma Street Transit Centre itself - and guessing that there will soon be some sort of announcement of changes to ped and bus routes to enable the demolition.

Yeah, they have a works notice up already.
https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/cross-river-rail/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/05144644/003.1-Roma-St-site-establishment-notification.pdf

Looks like a few other stations have similar notices.