Cross River Rail Project

[Stillwater]

It is interesting to consider whether demolition of the down-at-heel transit centre is a building redevelopment or core to CRR, which is a transport initiative.  So far, many of the works (building demolitions etc) are urban renewal projects and the state government seems to be picking its way around the various stages of this project without actually doing too much by way of tunnels etc, while passing off the above ground side of things as the CRR project in action.  Is the state government just biding its time to, once again, go after the feds for money for CRR during the federal election campaign in 2019 while projecting the story that the state is paying for CRR?  It is the transport side of CRR where the serious money will be spent.  The private sector is behind the above-ground works mainly.

[verbatim9]

It is interesting to consider whether demolition of the down-at-heel transit centre is a building redevelopment or core to CRR, which is a transport initiative.  So far, many of the works (building demolitions etc) are urban renewal projects and the state government seems to be picking its way around the various stages of this project without actually doing too much by way of tunnels etc, while passing off the above ground side of things as the CRR project in action.  Is the state government just biding its time to, once again, go after the feds for money for CRR during the federal election campaign in 2019 while projecting the story that the state is paying for CRR?  It is the transport side of CRR where the serious money will be spent.  The private sector is behind the above-ground works mainly.

Does anyone think CRR Authority have preliminary booked the boring machines in Perth and are just awaiting the final tunnel boring to be completed there, before shipping the tunnel boring machines to Qld to save on cost?

[Lungfish]

My understanding of tunnel boring machines is they are engineered to the local geology and that it would be unlikely that the machines that are currently digging their way through Bassendean Sand would be much use in Brisbane.

[verbatim9]

Roma Street Transit Centre Tenants will have a new home by March 19 to make way for the Cross River Rail Project.


https://www.couriermail.com.au/business/prime-site/the-transit-centre-will-be-empty-by-march-19-with-tenants-forced-to-leave-ahead-of-the-construction-of-the-cross-river-rail/news-story/ff30b181520f16f5c94f06ef7a7abb4b

The Transit Centre will be empty by March 19 with tenants forced to leave ahead of the construction of the Cross River Rail
Chris Herde, The Courier-Mail
January 20, 2019 4:02pm
Subscriber only
WORK will start later this year to prepare for the demolition of what has been renown as one of Brisbane's ugliest buildings, sparking a scramble by tenants to find new offices.

Five tenants will leave the Brisbane Transit Centre to make way for the Cross River Rail's underground Roma Street Station.

While the Transit Centre's East Tower was empty, tenants in the West Tower had to leave and find a new office before the March 19 deadline.

DHL Express Australia has secured space at 414 George St and it is understood Australia Post and Sonic Health will go to 259 Queen St, Queensland Rail have signed up at 30 Makerston St and the Department of Defence will settle in at 545 Queen St.

Colliers International's Simon Petrie said the search for new offices revealed a lack of quality options remaining in the CBD.

"What we found that it has really tightened up the North Quarter," he said

"There were very few options left in premium and A-grade buildings for big floor plates and contiguous space."

The State Government's Cross River Rail resumption process has allowed early site works to start this year, with the Transit Centre and Hotel Jen to be demolished in late 2020.

Knight Frank joint head office leasing Mark McCann said as well as the $5.4 billion Cross River Rail impacting on Transit Centre tenants the infrastructure project will also spark more CBD office inquiries.

"We anticipate significant project-related requirements to activate once the preferred tenderers are announced to commence design/construction of the Cross River Rail project," he said.

The Property Council's latest office vacancy report will be released on February 7 and there are expectations it will show a slight tightening from the 14.6 per cent in the middle of last year.

[kram0]

I am pleased to report, offices and retail stores on both sides of Albert Street have either vacated (and have signs on the door stating this is due to construction of CRR) or are in the process of vacating. I am not sure when all businesses have to be out of this PDA, but it's moving in the right direction.

[verbatim9]

I am pleased to report, offices and retail stores on both sides of Albert Street have either vacated (and have signs on the door stating this is due to construction of CRR) or are in the process of vacating. I am not sure when all businesses have to be out of this PDA, but it's moving in the right direction.

Yep I have noticed that too, businesses slowly closing in and around the station.

[BrizCommuter]

Will be updating the Cross River Rail Fail article soon. Any change since last year regarding infrastructure projects to optimise CRR (e.g. Cleveland duplication and extra tracks on Beenleigh Line), orders for more trains, and train crew recruitment?

[SurfRail]

^ The CRRDA is now responsible for the new proposed Gold Coast stations (Pimpama, Hope Island and Merrimac) and station upgrades from Dutton Park to Salisbury which will include third platform faces.  There isn't anything more about adding track capacity south of Salisbury.

The Fairfield upgrade QR is working on already appears to involve creation of a third platform face.

[verbatim9]

^^

I am not a big fan of all those inbetween stations but I guess it will help the people in those areas choose Public Transport as an option in the future.

The greatest con of this initiative is that It's going to add 6-8 mins to the trip for commuters wanting to travel further South.

I would much rather see the line completed to Coolangatta Airport first than building new infill  stations. It seems that the Government has made the new stations more of a priority than extending the line south which is unfortunate.

[kram0]

Let's hope the extension to GC Airport runs parallel to the M1 upgrade to Tugun. This would be the best value for taxpayers money.

One option to speed up the journey would be have split running pattens, but once again this would require track amplification from Kuraby to Beenleigh.

[BrizCommuter]

Thanks for the info.

[Stillwater]

Okay Ms Trad, the state government says it is 'fully funding' Cross River Rail.  If Bill Shorten and Labor get into power in Canberra in May 2019 and honour their commitment to put billions of dollars into CRR, what are the projects your government will fund using state money otherwise committed to CRR that will be displaced because of the feds' contribution to the project? 

Or is the full funding line spread by your government just a financial mirage, given there has been no actual drilling of a rail tunnel and no substantial spending by the Queensland Government, with work to date limited to resumptions, land-clearing and PRIVATE sector developer activity.

In other words, other projects won't get funded using state money because, in reality, the money is not there in the out years.

Or will the displaced state money have to go to new fleet purchases in order to run trains through the tunnel?

Some clarification, please.

[ozbob]

I am attempting to discern what the $2.4 billion actually is.  Seems $800 million for infrastructure cost, the remainder $1.6 billion for ' operating costs ' for the life of the project.  Now how does one define ' life of the project '.  This is more smoke and mirrors although $800 million is better than nought. 

[verbatim9]

I am attempting to discern what the $2.4 billion actually is.  Seems $800 million for infrastructure cost, the remainder $1.6 billion for ' operating costs ' for the life of the project.  Now how does one define ' life of the project '.  This is more smoke and mirrors although $800 million is better than nought. 

I am wondering about the 500 after construction jobs that they stated it would create. Are these jobs from all sectors, retail in and around stations, new potential apartments and offices (TOD)? Or is this just paying QR staff to stand around on platforms or be trains guards? The best train systems are the ones that are mainly Semi Automated and that have only a few customer service staff at key stations when needed, as well as late night security staff on weekends  This frees up funds to improve frequency, build and improve vital public transport infrastructure elsewhere.
"God help us!" If it's another 250 guards on top of drivers. By that time guards will be getting paid about a 120,000 gran (base rate).

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/CrossRiverRail/status/1091230727427973120

[kram0]

Ozbob (and everyone else), I am a little confused by a statement in the real estate section of the CM tonight. Do you know if they are going to demolish the entire transit centre, or only half? My understanding was the entire lot will go from late 2019. The attached paragraph in this article states only half. Can anyone shed any light on this matter?

https://www.couriermail.com.au/business/prime-site/strong-demand-and-the-looming-transit-centre-demolition-puts-a-dent-into-the-brisbane-cbd-office-vacancy-rate/news-story/e29281436e637cff171b60f01da731b4

Property Council Queensland executive director Chris Mountford said the dramatic fall was the largest of any Australian state capital.

"This result is a product of positive tenant demand, combined with the withdrawal of half of the Brisbane Transit Centre making way for the Cross River Rail project," he said.

[SurfRail]

It's going, but the office tenants aren't all leaving immediately from memory.

[verbatim9]

Ozbob (and everyone else), I am a little confused by a statement in the real estate section of the CM tonight. Do you know if they are going to demolish the entire transit centre, or only half? My understanding was the entire lot will go from late 2019. The attached paragraph in this article states only half. Can anyone shed any light on this matter?

https://www.couriermail.com.au/business/prime-site/strong-demand-and-the-looming-transit-centre-demolition-puts-a-dent-into-the-brisbane-cbd-office-vacancy-rate/news-story/e29281436e637cff171b60f01da731b4

Property Council Queensland executive director Chris Mountford said the dramatic fall was the largest of any Australian state capital.

"This result is a product of positive tenant demand, combined with the withdrawal of half of the Brisbane Transit Centre making way for the Cross River Rail project," he said.

It's going, but the office tenants aren't all leaving immediately from memory.

From sources I have read Mar/Apr seems to be the deadline for most tenants. There was an incentive to leave earlier so thats why many have left already.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/CrossRiverRail/status/1093039010824343552

[JustSomeTrainGuy]

I'm sure the engineers behind CRR have this all down pat, but CRR must get awfully close to the Clem 7 at Kangaroo Point and Legacy Way on the ICB?

[SurfRail]

I don't know that it really goes anywhere near Legacy Way, there is a bit of artistic licence in the animation.  IIRC the tunnels don't actually cross the ICB at all.

[James]

I'm sure the engineers behind CRR have this all down pat, but CRR must get awfully close to the Clem 7 at Kangaroo Point and Legacy Way on the ICB?

CRR will need to be much deeper than Clem7 at Kangaroo Point I think, due to the depth of the river/water table etc - this is why Clem7's deepest point is 60m or so under the Brisbane River. I imagine it would be a consideration, but not an issue.

CRR surfaces east of Countess St, rather than south of the ICB, so no issues with Legacy Way.

[red dragin]

Clem 7 climbs dramatically from the river heading south bound. I forget the depth at the interchange at Shafston.

It's pretty shallow at Woolloongabba, so I'd suspect CRR would be underneath.

[kram0]

With the right team of engineers, it won't be a problem. Look at the challenges the Cross Rail team faced in London. They had to feed the TBM above one underground tunnel and below an escalator service the station with only inches in it.

[Andrew]

Am I the only one that gets annoyed by all the claims of service frequency on other lines when CRR opens by CRR itself? QR haven't got their act together now.  How are they going to get to a consistent weekday schedule and then a dramatic increase in services when CRR opens in 5 years time?  I mean, they haven't even ordered anything beyond the NGRs yet to my knowledge (although apparently the NGR's can be built up to 9 cars from the existing 6 or so they claim).

[Stillwater]

Less animation, more underground drilling please.  State Labor is stalling until May, when they hope their federal counterparts will come to the rescue with fistfuls of dollars for CRR.

[SurfRail]

The 2 principal works contracts won't be let until June / July, and the timing of the next federal election really has no bearing on that.

[BrizCommuter]

Am I the only one that gets annoyed by all the claims of service frequency on other lines when CRR opens by CRR itself? QR haven't got their act together now.  How are they going to get to a consistent weekday schedule and then a dramatic increase in services when CRR opens in 5 years time?  I mean, they haven't even ordered anything beyond the NGRs yet to my knowledge (although apparently the NGR's can be built up to 9 cars from the existing 6 or so they claim).

They'll be an updated BrizCommuter post on this soon. CRR Fail is looming! Including increased frequency on the Ipswich Line in the business case is BS as CRR has no bearing on this!

[HappyTrainGuy]

Am I the only one that gets annoyed by all the claims of service frequency on other lines when CRR opens by CRR itself? QR haven't got their act together now.  How are they going to get to a consistent weekday schedule and then a dramatic increase in services when CRR opens in 5 years time?  I mean, they haven't even ordered anything beyond the NGRs yet to my knowledge (although apparently the NGR's can be built up to 9 cars from the existing 6 or so they claim).

Only need a software patch and 2xtrailer and 1xmotor car attached to the middle. A more nicer version of the old 8 car ICE trains.

[Andrew]

They'll be an updated BrizCommuter post on this soon. CRR Fail is looming! Including increased frequency on the Ipswich Line in the business case is BS as CRR has no bearing on this!

Well CRR will presumably free up paths on Merivale Bridge which will in turn free up paths through the CBD which Western Line trains could use so it's not totally unrelated. I am skeptical that QR will be in a strong enough position by then without enough staff and more trains being delivered post NGR's.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[verbatim9]

The construction of the new long-distance bus terminal is well on its way, to make room for the demolition of the Roma Street Transit Centre and the abandoned Hotel Jen for CRR.

[ozflier]

It is interesting to consider whether demolition of the down-at-heel transit centre is a building redevelopment or core to CRR, which is a transport initiative.  So far, many of the works (building demolitions etc) are urban renewal projects and the state government seems to be picking its way around the various stages of this project without actually doing too much by way of tunnels etc, while passing off the above ground side of things as the CRR project in action.  Is the state government just biding its time to, once again, go after the feds for money for CRR during the federal election campaign in 2019 while projecting the story that the state is paying for CRR?  It is the transport side of CRR where the serious money will be spent.  The private sector is behind the above-ground works mainly.

I applaud your cynicism .
I suspect the Qld government is broke .
The only evidence of the fully funded CRR is the demolition of the old Gabba Dental Hospital .
Has anyone see any other activity ?
What is happening to the north coast duplication ?
?? anything.
I think that Trad et al will stop all coal mining in the next year or so - we will be even broker!
I suspect Adani is only the start.
Am I just being cynical or can someone talk me out of this impression.

[James]

I applaud your cynicism .
I suspect the Qld government is broke .
The only evidence of the fully funded CRR is the demolition of the old Gabba Dental Hospital .
Has anyone see any other activity ?
What is happening to the north coast duplication ?
?? anything.
I think that Trad et al will stop all coal mining in the next year or so - we will be even broker!
I suspect Adani is only the start.
Am I just being cynical or can someone talk me out of this impression.

Let me assure you, the government would have not assembled consortia & alliances to go through 3-6 months of tender design, and would not be so close to announcing the successful tenderers, only to not proceed with construction.

Not only would this be a big hit in the ALP's political reputation, industry would also lose a lot of faith in it. The reason why nothing else is really happening is because all the money has been swallowed up by CRR.

[ozbob]

Don't be suprised if CRR is pushed back a bit.  The ground work is being laid ( " Queensland's summer of disasters to cost $1.5b, says Premier " https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5234.msg219574#msg219574 ).

They haven't got enough train crew or trains to deliver the October 2016 timetable, what chance post CRR in 2024?  I would suggest none.

:bi

[kram0]

Ozbob, it might be time to get your contacts at the courier mail, channel 7 etc to hit the government up for an update and timelines. I have a friend on the inside, and while they were very busy pre Xmas, he said last week when we went for a beer, it's all ground to a halt.

Let's hope we get some serious action soon.

[JustSomeTrainGuy]

Maybe they realised QR doesn't have the rollingstock/crew to operate a post-CRR timetable 

Edit: Oops, didn't see ozbob's post, but you get the idea

[ozbob]

Ozbob, it might be time to get your contacts at the courier mail, channel 7 etc to hit the government up for an update and timelines. I have a friend on the inside, and while they were very busy pre Xmas, he said last week when we went for a beer, it's all ground to a halt.

Let's hope we get some serious action soon.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/scrap-cross-river-rail-lord-mayor-20110318-1c0c9.html

Plenty of previous form

... Earlier, Premier Anna Bligh told the Property Council audience that cross-river rail was the only planned infrastructure project to have been delayed in the wake of the floods.

She said the project had not yet been funded in the budget, but this would have been the first year that money needed to be set aside.

In January, Treasurer Andrew Fraser said work on the rail project would be pushed back from 2013 to at least 2015, with the project now not due for completion until 2020 at the earliest.

"Frankly, we are just not in a position to do it," Ms Bligh said today, adding this could change in 18 months' time.

"It's not a very long delay and one we believe is manageable."   ...

When you consider the capital cost for CRR, then the additional crew, trains and ETCS ( all big money)  ...  CRR is fast becoming the impossible dream once again.  Add in very high labour costs to support the NGR trains, oh boy ...

If the present Cyclone Oma whacks the SEQ Coast, all over red rover ...

Sorry to be negative, but being realistic.   

[kram0]

Agree all these projects are big money, but we need to get on with them, as they won't get any cheaper the longer we leave it.

Vic and in particular NSW are finding 10's of billions to pour into major rail infrastructure. In comparison to Sydney Metro (both stages 1 and 2) CRR doesn't come close to this project. $6B compared to $30B.

Anna P & Trad would look even more incompetent if this project doesn't go ahead after screaming from the roof of 1 William "This is Qld's number 1 infrastructure project'. 

[BrizCommuter]

Here we go again...
Cross River Rail Fail - another year closer!
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2019/02/cross-river-rail-fail-another-year.html

[timh]

Let me assure you, the government would have not assembled consortia & alliances to go through 3-6 months of tender design, and would not be so close to announcing the successful tenderers, only to not proceed with construction.

Not only would this be a big hit in the ALP's political reputation, industry would also lose a lot of faith in it. The reason why nothing else is really happening is because all the money has been swallowed up by CRR.

Have to agree with James. It seems like the recent complaints Trad made that ScoMo wasn't going to provide federal funding for CRR isn't an indication that the State Gov doesn't have the money (they did say it was "fully funded"), but more an indication that they're sinking every last cent of infrastructure dollars into it. Hence why other projects such as the Nambour duplication, Eastern Busway, etc. have been shelved for now. For instance in 2018 when Bill Shorten came out and announced a federal Labour government would commit $2.2b to the CRR, State Gov's response was that it would be very useful money as the State money that otherwise would have been spent there could be spent on other projects.

I suspect that this is also the reason why the State Government wouldn't gift the land needed for the Brisbane Metro to BCC. They needed to sell it off because they need the money...