Cross River Rail Project

[Gazman]

Mr Turnbull could make the point that the CRR business case doesn't stack up without the passenger numbers fast rail to the Sunshine Coast would feed into CRR.

I don't think Mr Turnbull could make any credible point about the business case not stacking up after throwing $5 billion at the Melbourne airport link without a business case.

[matlock]

Mr Turnbull could make the point that the CRR business case doesn't stack up without the passenger numbers fast rail to the Sunshine Coast would feed into CRR.

I don't think Mr Turnbull could make any credible point about the business case not stacking up after throwing $5 billion at the Melbourne airport link without a business case.

Exactly. The Melbourne Airport Link is a good idea, but it isn't more important than other infrastructure projects. CRR will probably see greater daily use if built than the Tullamarie link.

The amount of money the Feds have been willing to throw at Sydney's light and rapid rail projects is, while welcome, incredibly frustrating for us here in SE Queensland because we're in dire need of a transformational infrastructure project.

[Stillwater]

A bit more of the picture comes to light:

http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/bill-shorten-to-back-cross-river-rail/news-story/9388113e812ac902cc7462e736ec25cb

[ozbob]

When do we break the news to Bill et al that there are not enough trains or crew for CRR?

[kram0]

Good to see the media have done some quality research again. Tunnel from West End?

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/RMorrison9/status/985701125335625728

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/AustralianLabor/status/985698515153121280

[aldonius]

Tim Mander needs to look at the business case. There are operating costs included in the headline price tag IIRC.

As for his station upgrades figure - where did he pull that from?

[Stillwater]

I question whether the federal government can make payments for the operational/running costs of a project, and identify a sum specifically for that purpose.  Anyone know a Constitutional lawyer?

[ozbob]

Mate!

https://twitter.com/RMorrison9/status/985750094413574145

[ozbob]

Huh?

https://twitter.com/QLDLabor/status/985752035566862336

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/9NewsQueensland/status/985754707527335936

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/billshortenmp/status/985754472730120192

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/tennewsqld/status/985779728148647936

[Gazman]

Huh?

https://twitter.com/QLDLabor/status/985752035566862336

Oh great! Mr Shorten added a few extra billion on to his cheque today?!

[#Metro]

I'm not against Bill Shorten announcing funds for CRR, just like I'm not against Malcolm announcing funds for airport rail. My only concern here is the Sunshine Coast line. Does both these announcements come at the expense of Sunshine Coast upgrades??

[Stillwater]

It is, as expected, a game of political snooker to show Malcolm Turnbull up as a skinflint.

But something doesn't add up here.  It smells.

Queensland ALP is funding CRR 100 per cent - they have told us over and over.  So Bill Shorten and Labor will put in $800m to the construction costs of a project that already is 100 per cent state funded.  This, we are told, displaces a corresponding $800m in STATE funds to go towards 'other state infrastructure projects'.  So, the obvious question is: Why didn't Bill Shorten promise $800m to those other projects -- extension of rail to Ripley perhaps.

The cynics would say that Ms Trad and co were $800m short in their budget and needed federal Labor to bail them out.  In which case, there are no displaced funds for 'other infrastructure projects'.

The fact that the bulk of the federal Labor promised money will be used for operational expenses in the first few years, suggests that the BCR was fudged, as the Federal Government and IA suspected.  So, is CRR being funded before its time?  Is Brisbane Metro a better proposition?

Assuming federal Labor will get up at the next election and Bill Shorten is PM, what happens when the federal operating subsidy runs out?  The trains stop?  (If only we had sufficient trains and crew.  Or will CRR run to a 'special timetable Mondays to Wednesdays?)  Or Ms Trad screams at Canberra - SHOW US THE MONEY.., again.

[Gazman]

I'm not against Bill Shorten announcing funds for CRR, just like I'm not against Malcolm announcing funds for airport rail. My only concern here is the Sunshine Coast line. Does both these announcements come at the expense of Sunshine Coast upgrades??

The feel I get is that is all the other projects in the pipeline/ proposed won't even get any consideration until CRR (eventually) becomes operational. The government at the moment deflects any talk of rail infrastructure "until we have CRR." My expectation is that we will go through years and years of this kind of political to-ing and fro-ing before we see anything else come to fruition.

It is, as expected, a game of political snooker to show Malcolm Turnbull up as a skinflint.

But something doesn't add up here.  It smells.

Queensland ALP is funding CRR 100 per cent - they have told us over and over.  So Bill Shorten and Labor will put in $800m to the construction costs of a project that already is 100 per cent state funded.  This, we are told, displaces a corresponding $800m in STATE funds to go towards 'other state infrastructure projects'.  So, the obvious question is: Why didn't Bill Shorten promise $800m to those other projects -- extension of rail to Ripley perhaps.

The cynics would say that Ms Trad and co were $800m short in their budget and needed federal Labor to bail them out.  In which case, there are no displaced funds for 'other infrastructure projects'.

The fact that the bulk of the federal Labor promised money will be used for operational expenses in the first few years, suggests that the BCR was fudged, as the Federal Government and IA suspected.  So, is CRR being funded before its time?  Is Brisbane Metro a better proposition?

Assuming federal Labor will get up at the next election and Bill Shorten is PM, what happens when the federal operating subsidy runs out?  The trains stop?  (If only we had sufficient trains and crew.  Or will CRR run to a 'special timetable Mondays to Wednesdays?)  Or Ms Trad screams at Canberra - SHOW US THE MONEY.., again.

I wondered where the 800 million figure came from... but I read somewhere today, and I can't remember where now... but it sounded like the state government had already allocated $3-4 billion in the next 2 or 3 year's budgets, so maybe at this stage it ISN'T fully budgeted. So maybe the 800 is something like 50% of the rest? And then in order to prop up their contribution, they've provided a nominal amount for "running" costs.

Agree that something sounds a little off about it though, when you lay it out like that.

[Stillwater]

Who knows, maybe the federal Labor subsidy for 'running costs' is actually to purchase additional trains sets.  Either way, the LNP should do its job and seek the answers.

[Gazman]

Who knows, maybe the federal Labor subsidy for 'running costs' is actually to purchase additional trains sets.  Either way, the LNP should do its job and seek the answers.

Yep!

[red dragin]

Fed Labor went for CRR as it is a point of difference to the liberal party.

Either to force the libs to match them and support CRR, or have them throw money at another SEQ rail project.

[James]

This announcement from Federal Labor is, well, a bit puzzling.

They've committed $800m for CRR 'in writing', and promised to make further contributions 50:50 if elected ($2.2bn). This is despite Jackie Trad crowing constantly about how CRR has been "fully funded" by the State Government and how she is "getting on with the job" etc. Bill Shorten has also agreed to match the LNP in terms of funding contributions for the M1. The catch? This money would be given under the same funding model as was proposed by Malcolm Turnbull last week and promptly slammed by Mark Bailey. Ignoring that technicality, +$1bn to total spend today.

And then somehow, in that tweet above, a commitment of $1.8bn, or $3.2bn if you use the 50:50 figure, has turned into $5.4bn. And what happens to all this money that was slated for CRR, but has been freed up by the federal cash splash? In effect, it's Bill Shorten giving $800m to Anna to fund other projects.

Good media circus though, unless you're a bit switched on it sounds like Bill Shorten is the only person who will build CRR.

[matlock]

My understanding is that they're going 50-50 on construction costs. The total cost is $5.4bn, so Federal Labor will give $2.2bn. They are then going to also give $800mil to the operational costs to actually run the thing once it opens.

This leaves the Queensland Government with $2.2bn which it can spend on other projects, provided Federal Labor is elected.

The cynicism here is pretty disappointing. We should be supporting the fact that this is getting some support, however worthless it might be at this stage. Just remember that less than six months ago we feared that Blue team would scrap the project. They've consistently shown themselves to be hostile toward CRR.

[not_available]

This leaves the Queensland Government with $2.2bn which it can spend on other projects, provided Federal Labor is elected.

How much % of the Realign and Duplication Beerburrum-Nambour can 2.2 billion do? You can actually have both, right?

[matlock]

This leaves the Queensland Government with $2.2bn which it can spend on other projects, provided Federal Labor is elected.

How much % of the Realign and Duplication Beerburrum-Nambour can 2.2 billion do? You can actually have both, right?

Not sure, but the Turnbull Government might end up contributing to that anyways. If both the CRR and Sunny Coast projects are split between state and federal they'd both be affordable.

[ozbob]

The Guardian --> How 'short-term politics' is putting the brakes on Brisbane's public transport

The two public transport projects are designed to work together, unlike the federal and Queensland governments

Together they are Brisbane's most significant public transport projects – two plans to prevent river bottlenecks for city buses and trains.

The Brisbane metro and cross-river rail projects are even designed to work together. If only the federal and Queensland governments could get on board and agree on a direction.

Guardian Australia understands the federal government will allocate roughly $300m in funding for the Brisbane metro bus project in the upcoming budget. The rest of the $1bn total cost comes from the Brisbane city council, which manages the bus network.

On Monday, federal Labor promised $2.2bn for cross-river rail, a project the Queensland government is already committed to financing without federal help. So far, the Turnbull government won't help pay for the rail plan, which involves building four new underground stations and alleviating a key choke point, citing problems with the state's business case.

In 2012, a version of the cross-river rail plan was assessed as "ready to proceed" by Infrastructure Australia. But IA now instead ranks the metro project among its top priorities nationally and says "the benefits of [cross-river rail], as set out in the business case, are significantly overstated, and the costs of the project as currently presented are likely to exceed its benefits".

The metro project scores higher than cross-river rail on a cost-benefit analysis. Largely because the cost is relatively low, work could start immediately, and a bus interchange at the South Brisbane cultural precinct is long overdue.

Brisbane is also a bus city. Dedicated busways allow for short and efficient trips. The city's rail network is not as extensive as in Sydney or Melbourne, and buses are a more convenient form of travel for many residents.

The deputy premier, Jackie Trad, says the state is very supportive of the metro, which will ultimately compliment cross-river rail.

Trad says the rail project, which she has consistently championed, has a full and peer-reviewed business case, and would allow the government to expand the network, which is likely to become overcrowded within a decade.

"Without [cross-river rail], rail services will be completely unable to keep up with growth," Trad says.

Trad points to the recent federal decision to fund the $5bn Tullamarine line in Melbourne, which is listed in the lowest-priority category by IA, as evidence that federal funding decisions had been hijacked by "short-term politics".

    This project is way more than the $5.4bn Labor keeps spruiking.
    Deb Frecklington, Queensland opposition leader

She says "successive LNP governments have ensured it was put on the backburner".

Unable to get federal funding, the Queensland government announced in 2017 it would fund the cross-river rail project itself. The state opposition has maintained a soft position – not outright opposed to the project but publicly unconvinced it has merit for the cost.

The opposition leader, Deb Frecklington, points to the business case that listed capital costs as $5.4bn, with another $9bn required in operational and auxiliary costs.

"Annastacia Palaszczuk and Jackie Trad said they could deliver cross-river rail by themselves," Frecklington says. "The fact [federal Labor] has promised 50% of the operational costs shows that this project is way more than the $5.4 bn Labor keeps spruiking."

The LNP holds the federal seat of Brisbane by about 6% but the electorate is a top target of both Labor and the Greens, and both parties believe it can be won. Public transport is, unsurprisingly for the inner-city, near the top of voters' list of concerns.

Coalition sources say the government's re-election pitch to city voters will likely be around funding the metro.

Last week, Brisbane MP Trevor Evans was polling voters on the metro, with a preamble that reinforced that the bus project was among infrastructure Australia's top-six priorities. Evans has also set up a petition for metro funding.

The federal LNP member appears more positive about cross-river rail than his state counterparts. But he says the metro should be the priority for funding and that he is "fighting hard" to have the project included in this year's budget.

"It's important that we get the politics out of infrastructure decisions and that the experts give governments advice on which proposals are best," Evans says. "That's actually why Infrastructure Australia was created and why it exists.

"Infrastructure Australia has listed Brisbane Metro as being in the nation's top six high-priority projects and my view is that it should be funded accordingly."

Evans says the metro should not be seen an alternative to cross-river rail.

"Both projects will be critical to Brisbane's future because there are emerging bottlenecks for both the train network and the bus network," he says. "But I'm also conscious that twice as many people uses buses than trains in Brisbane.

"I want to see both projects developed in a collaborative and cooperative way because of the huge benefits for Brisbane, but both projects should proceed on their own timelines and on their own merits.

"The business case for the cross-river rail is not yet as advanced or ready."

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/CrossRiverRail/status/987214923716378624

[Stillwater]

So ... CRR funding 'oversubscribed' by Labor -- more money than required to build it.  The federal Coalition is looking for a 'distinguishing project' -- different to CRR.  CRR has Labor's fingerprints all over it, so why would Malcolm Turnbull and Co. fund Labor's pet project when ALP has sucked all the good publicity from it?  Voila!  Brisbane Metro, worth $1 billion.  Coalition works with a compliant BCC and gives Team Quirk $300 million to build it, not so much as to have the good folk of Brisbane get around faster by bus, but to shore up the vulnerable seat of Brisbane at the next election (which Labor also covets via its big spend on CRR).

The feds then biding their time while North Coast Connect business case is worked up (in next 12 months), to be released just before the next federal election.  Funny that.  Sunshine Coast is an LNP stronghold, so state Labor won't put anything towards SCL upgrade.  LNP probably will, just how much becomes the issue.  Most likely it will be a large slice for the Beerburrum-Landsborough duplication as a 'construction ready' project, while other aspects of the project are worked up.  We can assume the feds won't fund it all.  And they know that Jacki Trad has a spare $800 million displaced from federal Labor's generosity for CRR.  So, most likely, $800 million becomes the amount the Coalition says will be required as a state contribution towards North Coast Connect.  Ms Trad will get red-faced and stamp her high heels, citing 'other priorities' (presumably in state Labor electorates) and will refuse to put Qld money into that pet LNP project.  Stalemate and standoff, while the feds do to Trad/Bailey/Palaszczuk re SCL what state Labor is doing to Malcolm over his failure to cough up money for a project (CRR) that Labor says, strangely, it is funding 100 per cent using Queensland Government money.

Like wrestlers trying to get a hold on their opponent, Trad will do the switcheroo and name the projects Labor wants to spend its $800 million 'windfall' on, but they will proceed only if Malcolm Turnbull/Coalition matches the projects with 50-50 funding.  Malcolm will say SCL and Brisbane Metro are his projects, both with BCRs higher than CRR, as calculated by IA.

Its all a bit churlish, but it's called 'strategic transport planning'.   

But, out of it, we might just get CRR, SCL duplication (and possibly NCC within 5 years)    .... and Brisbane Metro.

Not without a great deal of bluff and bluster politics, as is the Queensland way.

[ozbob]

BrizCommuter is predicting Cross River Rail Fail. Why? Read on!
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2018/03/will-qrs-rail-fail-impact-cross-river.html

20/07/2016 Qld Deputy Premier Jackie Trad assures estimates there will be trains for Cross-River Rail

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommuter is predicting Cross River Rail Fail. Why? Read on!
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2018/03/will-qrs-rail-fail-impact-cross-river.html

20/07/2016 Qld Deputy Premier Jackie Trad assures estimates there will be trains for Cross-River Rail

There will be trains, just not enough at this rate! I think QR and TMR appear to be oblivious to the looming requirement for additional trains.

Just posted this blog post. https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2018/04/north-west-transport-corridor-missing.html
It is critical that CRR has tunnel stubs to allow for the addition of Trouts Rd Line / North West Transport Corridor. Otherwise due to lack of turnback facilities in the CRR tunnel, CRR will have to be closed for months - doh!

[Gazman]

Just wondering... I don't suppose anyway has a link to or a copy they could attach of the original inner city rail capacity study? I've never actually seen the report in it entirety and have been curious to read it. I've found links at a few different sources but they have all been broken. Thanks.

[ozbob]

I will check out my archives Gazman later today. I think I have a copy somewhere..

[Gazman]

I will check out my archives Gazman later today. I think I have a copy somewhere..

Great, thanks! 

[ozbob]

Inner City Rail Capacity
Study: Pre-Feasibility Report 2008

> https://backontrack.org/docs/icrcs/icrcs2008.pdf 3.3MB

[ozbob]

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/hansard/2018/2018_05_02_DAILY.pdf

Queensland Parliament Hansard

Ministerial Statements

Cross River Rail

Hon. JA TRAD (South Brisbane—ALP) (Deputy Premier, Treasurer and Minister for Aboriginal
and Torres Strait Islander Partnerships) (9.41 am): Queenslanders are becoming used to being
disappointed by the Turnbull LNP government which continually invests in other states like New South
Wales and Victoria but gives Queensland a raw deal.

Cross River Rail is a transformative project. It is a nation-building project. It will deliver more
trains more often. It will double the capacity across the South-East Queensland network, making it
much easier and quicker for people right across South-East Queensland to get around and it will bust
congestion.

Mr Crandon interjected.

Mr SPEAKER: Member for Coomera, please cease your interjections.

Ms TRAD: It is disappointing that the Turnbull LNP government has not yet decided to invest in
this transformational project, choosing instead to fund projects in Victoria and New South Wales that
far outweigh the investment provided in Queensland. The Turnbull government is spending more than
$6 billion on Snowy Hydro 2.0. It is investing billions in WestConnex in Sydney and more than $5 billion
for a second airport in Western Sydney.

The federal government has withheld support from the Cross River Rail project in part based on
a flawed Infrastructure Australia report that has been widely criticised and ridiculed for basic
inaccuracies. Meanwhile, in Victoria, the federal government has announced $5 billion in funding to
support a rail link that has no completed business case and does not even have a finalised route. I
understand that the Victorian government had not even asked for the funding. In fact, when I spoke to
the Victorian Treasurer he was very grateful for the funding but they are scratching their heads around
the timing and the urgency for the $5 billion in funding.

Ms Palaszczuk: There's an election around the corner.

Ms TRAD: I will take that interjection from the Premier. There must be a federal election around
the corner.

Next week's federal budget is a test for the Turnbull LNP government. Will they back Queensland
and invest in critical projects like Cross River Rail or will they continue to ignore our state? Cross River
Rail will be one of Queensland's most important job-generating projects, supporting economic growth
and employment now during construction and well beyond its completion. It will unlock and drive
economic growth and jobs across our fast growing South-East Queensland region.
During the five-year construction period Cross River Rail will support on average 1,500 jobs each
and every year and up to 3,000 jobs in the most intensive year of construction. Every dollar invested in
the project will return $1.41 in economic benefits back to the state, and the total benefits of the project
will exceed costs by more than $1.9 billion. Cross River Rail will also support new rail connections—
important new rail connections—and increase rail services to key growth areas like the Sunshine Coast,
Ripley Valley and Flagstone.

Queensland cannot afford to wait for the Turnbull government. We could not afford to wait for the
Turnbull government to come to its senses, so we have fully funded Cross River Rail and we are getting
on with delivering it. Let me make it clear: that does not mean that the Turnbull government should be
let off the hook. Queenslanders pay their fair share of taxes to the federal government. We expect the
federal government to invest that money back in our state. That being said, I welcome the
announcement from the federal Leader of the Opposition, Bill Shorten, that a future Labor federal
government will invest $2.24 billion in Cross River Rail, a commitment that recognises the national
significance of the project.

It is not too late for the Turnbull LNP government to get on board. I call on the federal government
to make a significant investment in Cross River Rail in next week's budget. It is a project essential to
the future of transport in the fastest growing region in our state and to provide Queensland with the
support it deserves which is no more support than what is currently being enjoyed by other states like
New South Wales and Victoria.

[Gazman]

Inner City Rail Capacity
Study: Pre-Feasibility Report 2008

> https://backontrack.org/docs/icrcs/icrcs2008.pdf 3.3MB

Thanks very much, much appreciated... some bedtime reading for tonight!

[ozbob]

No worries.  It is a good read!   

[ozbob]

Sunshine Coast Daily --> Cross River Fail: Former deputy PM criticises rail funding

THE former deputy Prime Minister has hit out at the Federal Government's "con job" rail duplication announcement, criticising them for not funding the Cross River Rail project.

It was this week announced $390 million would be put forward by the LNP for a rail duplication and upgrade between Beerburrum and Nambour.

Lilley MP Wayne Swan lambasted the move and said the plan couldn't go forward until the Cross River Rail was funded.

The Cross River Rail, lauded as the State Government's "highest priority infrastructure project", is a 10.2km rail line between Dutton Park and Bowen Hill, with a 5.9km twin tunnel under the Brisbane River.

"Essentially in the absence of any Federal Government commitment to do Cross River Rail, it's a con job," Mr Swan said.

"The Cross River Rail is an essential precondition for any improvement on the Sunshine Coast which they're not stumping up a dollar for."

Fairfax MP Ted O'Brien, who campaigned hard for the rail upgrades, said the State Government was funding the project on their own "as per the commitment they made to the people of Queensland at the last election".

"Duplication of the rail line will separate freight from passenger trains and it is not necessary for the Cross River Rail to be complete in order to get started on that work," Mr O'Brien said.

"There is no doubt that the entire southeast Queensland rail network needs to be improved and there is always going to be a linkage, but you can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Annastacia Palaszczuk and Mr Swan have both criticised the Federal Government for not funding the duplication 80/20, but Mr O'Brien said this was never agreed upon.

"Such works as these are not traditionally funded by the Federal Government and since the state owns the rail this is effectively a gift of $390 million," he said.

Mr Swan is still talking mumbo jumbo ...  hey Swanny the State has moved on cobber!

[BrizCommuter]

Sunshine Coast Line Duplication - Reality Check
https://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2018/05/sunshine-coast-line-duplication-reality.html

[Stillwater]

Good read BrizCommuter.  So what is the speculation that, behind the political fight, is a row over whether fed funds go to CRR (that door seems to have closed) or that - following the Business Case for North Coast Connect project - the Federal Government announces funding for Trouts Road Corridor rail?  Those politicians with tiny minds seem to have a fixation about CRR being funded (or not) by the Federal Government without having the smarts to realise that an opportunity for big bucks from Canberra, on a scale of rail funding for Sydney and Melbourne, could come in the form of money for Trouts Road Corridor.  So Queensland might get its 'fair share' of funding (whatever that is) for major rail infrastructure after all.

If Queensland wants more money for transport infrastructure, it should take the preparation of Business Cases more seriously than they do currently. Incomplete information, fudging the figures, assumptions get us nowhere.