Cross River Rail Project

[BrizCommuter]

After Rail Fail and NGR Fail, BrizCommuter is half expecting CRR project to get metres and feet mixed up and build tunnels too small for trains to fit through.

[Stillwater]

Oh that's easily fixed, BrizCommuter ....

The Queensland Government merely applies for an exemption from the Weights and Measures (National Standards) Act 1960.  It introduces a Queensland law that adopts the 'Queensland metre' measure.  Fixed.   

Sovereign jurisdictions have been here before:

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/jackietrad/status/959201272741048321

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/jackietrad/status/959205518068695041

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Shortlist of Cross River Rail consortia to be announced within a month

The shortlist of consortia to design and build the state's biggest infrastructure project, the $5.4 billion Cross River Rail, could be announced within a month.

Details of the big contracts are now being finalised by the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority, a semi-autonomous body set up by the Palaszczuk government in 2016 to make Brisbane's underground rail project a reality.

The first major contract will be to supply, install and then maintain the underground Cross River Rail system and link it to Brisbane's existing rail services.

The second major contract is for the tunnelling work from Dutton Park on the southside to Red Hill on the northside of the city. This second contract includes building Brisbane's underground stations.

A shortlist of consortia that bid for two major sections of work is being assessed by the CRRDA, but has yet to be finalised by its board, which includes Queensland's under treasurer Jim Murphy and former Labor deputy premier Paul Lucas, who, as transport minister, launched the idea in 2007.

A spokeswoman for Deputy Premier Jackie Trad said the delivery authority's board was expected to decide on the shortlist of consortia this month.

After that decision, the short-listed consortia would be asked to prepare detailed engineering submissions for the project, which would take up to eight months.

Winning tenders for the two major works packages for the Cross River Rail project will then be chosen from those detailed engineering submissions.

CRRDA chief executive Graeme Newton told reporters at the site of the demolished Go Print building on Friday that details of the consortia short-listed for the two major contracts would be announced soon.

"We're in the advanced state of the expressions of interest elements of the project now," Mr Newton said.

Ms Trad said that the shortlist stage would lead to "a longer request for detailed proposals".

"This will be quite important because we will test out a lot of the engineering and final design work, which will be critical," she said.

In August and September 2017, the state government called for expressions of interest for the two major contracts.

Cross River Rail's project timeline shows the short-list of consortia would be made in February 2018.

The Go Print building at Woolloongabba, across Ipswich Road from the cricket stadium, has been demolished and material is being removed. Work on that demolition started in October.

It was one of two early works contracts awarded last year. The Sunmap Centre and the adjacent South Brisbane Dental Clinic will be demolished in the second half of 2018.

The complete site will slowly be transformed over five years into the new Woolloongabba train station, which is part of Cross River Rail project.

"The Cross River Rail Woolloongabba Station will be constructed around 27 metres below ground, with 220-metre long platforms to accommodate nine-car trains," Ms Trad said.

The large tunnel boring machines will dig out from the Wolloongabba site towards Dutton Park, under the Brisbane River towards new stations at Albert Street and Roma Street.

"This site will be the epicentre for construction of the Cross River Rail," Ms Trad said.

Ms Trad said adding the new underground train station at Woollongabba as part of Cross River Rail would make a major improvement to the Gabba precinct.

However, she said any submissions to improve the conditions at the Gabba ground itself was "a conversation" needing to be assessed on merit as part of Queensland's 2018-19 state budget.

"Fans enjoying the summer of cricket at the Gabba, who will have seen the demolition progress over the past months, can look forward to better public transport to the ground when the brand new Woolloongabba station is complete," she said.

"We know better transport will dramatically improve the match day experience for fans and the new station will see its expected average daily passenger load of 18,000 potentially double to more than 30,000 users for major events."

[Stillwater]

Okay, so putting all the hype to one side, Cross River Rail is at the:

"Advanced stage of the calling of expressions of interest phase."

[SurfRail]

It's certainly more progress than they have ever made previously.  Last few starts only got as far as the geotech drilling.

[matlock]

It's certainly more progress than they have ever made previously.  Last few starts only got as far as the geotech drilling.

Bingo.

Let's not jump on the populist bandwagon either when it comes to government infrastructure projects. Stage 2 of the GC Light Rail was delivered earlier than expected so the Government has shown it can deliver if things are executed right.

I just hope that CRR is a) actually delivered, b) delivered on time and on budget, and c) well funded and staffed upon launch so there's very decent boosts to the number of trains per hour running through the GC, Beenleigh lines. Also very much hope that the Government announces in the next couple of years the commencement of an expansion to the Springfield and Ipswich lines to cater to new communities and the duplication of the Sunshine Coast lines, so that the rail network really gets going by 2021.

[ozbob]

+1 Matlock.  Well said ..

[Derwan]

Woolloongabba update:  Our superiors have been advised that the Landcentre building must be vacated by June.  It was previously September/October.

[Stillwater]

How many chocolate eggs do you think the Easter Bunny will leave you this year, Matlock? 

[ozbob]

Kind of sad that most of us cannot believe anything much any more when it comes to ' projects '. 
Too many videos, glossy brochures, spin and bull.

Take Cross River Rail, until we see a TBM pop out the other end there will be much doubt hey Thomas?

Anyone seen a ' Rail Revolution '  in their travels?  Was around for a while but seems to have gotten lost ... 

[SurfRail]

[verbatim9]

New job opportunities for Cross River Rail

https://www.facebook.com/CrossRiverRail/posts/563012110723923

[kram0]

Chatting to an engineer friend who works for QR on the weekend and he has said they definitely plan to have quad track from Dutton Park to Yerongpilly by 2025. He was part of the major works last weekend and future planning was part of those works.

[v6hilux]

The quad track will be for the ARTC Inland Rail coal plan to take coal from the western line (Ipswich) and have the coal run via the Kagaru to Acacia Ridge line.

[kram0]

The quad track will be for the ARTC Inland Rail coal plan to take coal from the western line (Ipswich) and have the coal run via the Kagaru to Acacia Ridge line.

So are you saying this involves quad from yeerongpilly to Dutton Park as that's what he said was happening and they are future proofing for this now.

[verbatim9]

The quad track will be for the ARTC Inland Rail coal plan to take coal from the western line (Ipswich) and have the coal run via the Kagaru to Acacia Ridge line.

So are you saying this involves quad from yeerongpilly to Dutton Park as that's what he said was happening and they are future proofing for this now.

[v6hilux]

So are you saying this involves quad from yeerongpilly to Dutton Park as that's what he said was happening and they are future proofing for this now.

Currently three tracks in place, and one is bi-direction dual gauge for interstate trains to go to Roma Street and the Port of Brisbane.

It's really speculation on my part, as the current capacity with coal trains going to the Port of Brisbane are limiting the number of trains. The additional track is also needed to accommodate for the CRR of course, if built.

[matlock]

So are you saying this involves quad from yeerongpilly to Dutton Park as that’s what he said was happening and they are future proofing for this now.

Currently three tracks in place, and one is bi-direction dual gauge for interstate trains to go to Roma Street and the Port of Brisbane.

It's really speculation on my part, as the current capacity with coal trains going to the Port of Brisbane are limiting the number of trains. The additional track is also needed to accommodate for the CRR of course, if built.

What is the current plan for the lines taking CRR? Beenleigh and Gold Coast taking CRR while Cleveland and eventually Flagstone take the Merivale?

Anyway, glad to see there will be improvements elsewhere on the innercity lines than just on CRR. CRR is useless without surrounding infrastructure having the capacity to make the best use of it.

[aldonius]

Gold Coast will take CRR, Cleveland will take Merivale.

I expect the Beenleigh/Gold Coast lines will at some point swap from two tiers to three, the innermost one will go via Merivale. (More or less one tier per local govt area, although the Logan tier could go as far south as Helensvale or at least to a big park and ride at Yatala.)

It might well make sense to run Flagstone with 9-car trains from the get-go, in which case it would need to take CRR, possibly displacing the 'Logan' BL/GC tier back to Merivale.

[matlock]

Gold Coast will take CRR, Cleveland will take Merivale.

I expect the Beenleigh/Gold Coast lines will at some point swap from two tiers to three, the innermost one will go via Merivale. (More or less one tier per local govt area, although the Logan tier could go as far south as Helensvale or at least to a big park and ride at Yatala.)

It might well make sense to run Flagstone with 9-car trains from the get-go, in which case it would need to take CRR, possibly displacing the 'Logan' BL/GC tier back to Merivale.

I wonder if there is merit to the idea of running some Beenleigh services via Merivale and others via CRR? Station announcements would need to be clear so commuters don't catch the wrong service or at least are aware they'll have to change lines - "Ferny Grove train, via South Brisbane and Central" versus "Ferny Grove train, via Woolloongabba and Albert Street".

There certainly are examples of that happening in other cities. Sydney's T1 comes to mind, as does London's Northern Line.
https://aarkangel.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/the-northern-line-game.jpg

[SurfRail]

^ The Northern Line is seriously capacity restricted as a consequence of that set-up, and it will eventually be changed so the branches at either end no longer swap around (and there is decent speculation it will be identified as 2 separate routes).  BrizCommuter would be all over the technical detail.

I don't think there is going to be enough capacity to route Flagstone, outer Beenleigh and Gold Coast services via Cross River Rail.  The Merivale Bridge route would also be under capacity as it would only need to cater to Cleveland and inner Beenleigh services, which is only going to chew up around 16 trains in the peak of peak.

[#Metro]

KISS

Run everything from Gold Coast and Beenleigh via CRR.

Run all Cleveland trains via South Brisbane, boost frequency during the day.

[SurfRail]

KISS

Run everything from Gold Coast and Beenleigh via CRR.

Run all Cleveland trains via South Brisbane, boost frequency during the day.

It is much more sensible to use the capacity that is available.  Over 20 tph available via both routes.  Half of CRR's capacity is going to be for Gold Coast trains (12 per hour), another 8 or so will be outer Beenleigh services.  Where do the Kuraby services go but via South Bank, unless you want to restrict them to 15 minute headways indefinitely and never be able to add any other services?

[BrizCommuter]

KISS

Run everything from Gold Coast and Beenleigh via CRR.

Run all Cleveland trains via South Brisbane, boost frequency during the day.

It is much more sensible to use the capacity that is available.  Over 20 tph available via both routes.  Half of CRR's capacity is going to be for Gold Coast trains (12 per hour), another 8 or so will be outer Beenleigh services.  Where do the Kuraby services go but via South Bank, unless you want to restrict them to 15 minute headways indefinitely and never be able to add any other services?

The current plans are for 6tph from Salisbury via South Bank, 6tph Beenleigh and 12tph Gold Coast services via CRR (which presumably would all run express between Salisbury and Park Rd.

[#Metro]

It is much more sensible to use the capacity that is available.  Over 20 tph available via both routes.  Half of CRR's capacity is going to be for Gold Coast trains (12 per hour), another 8 or so will be outer Beenleigh services.  Where do the Kuraby services go but via South Bank, unless you want to restrict them to 15 minute headways indefinitely and never be able to add any other services?

Gold Coast trains every 5 minutes? Is that right??

Currently, there are six trains/hour coming from the Gold Coast and passing Park Road in the AM peak. (7am - 8am, Park Road).

7:02, 7:09, 7:17, 7:32, 7:39, 7:47 AM

Will be surprised if GC line peak patronage jumps 100% on tunnel opening.

Can't really see why all GC and Beenleigh trains can't go via the tunnel during all off-peak periods, and likely during peak periods as well.

Update
---

And why are trains beginning at Salisbury? That is not a terminus station with stabling facilities. Will services be dead running empty from Beenleigh to make up those?

[dancingmongoose]

Will be surprised if GC line peak patronage jumps 100% on tunnel opening.

Well there will be 3 new stations (Pimpama, Helensvale North/Hope Island & Worongary/Merrimac), plus the fact that population on the Gold Coast, particularly northern GC is growing rapidly. I board at Ormeau and some days can't get a carpark at 7am, and it's not unusual for the train to be so full I have to stand until Park Road. GC line passenger demand growing by 100% from now to CRR opening is entirely feasible.

And why are trains beginning at Salisbury? That is not a terminus station with stabling facilities. Will services be dead running empty from Beenleigh to make up those?

I'd expect they'd end up terminating at Coopers Plains, though part of me is hoping that they are planning to have started on the Flagstone line and have at least an Acacia Ridge station running but don't want to spill the beans just yet

[James]

Trains on the GC line every 5 minutes simply isn't possible without adding additional stops to Gold Coast trains, and by that I mean trains stopping to at least Loganlea and then running express from there - even then there may be issues with GC trains running up the backside of all-stopping trains. 8tph for the Gold Coast Line could be possible though, as we've seen with the use of Bethania P3 to allow Gold Coast trains to pass.

There needs to be a planning study done as to whether it is cost-effective to go in and resume a whole heap of properties and straighten out the Beenleigh line to 100kph and 4 tracks from Salisbury to Loganlea/Bethania, or whether to build a whole new alignment beside/above the M1 Mandurah-line style. CRR is all fine and dandy, but there's a world beyond CRR, and packaging it up with a 'succession package' would be very good for keeping the engineering & construction expertise in Brisbane.

It is going to be a very ugly, expensive exercise, but the only other options I can see are:
1. Discouraging people living in the Beenleigh - Coomera corridor from working in Brisbane, whether that be by disincentives (tolls, taxes) or incentives (encouraging business to move to the GC), or
2. Building a 10 or 12-lane M1 and putting in express lanes like you see with Toronto's Highway 401. The 'second M1' will perform a local function, which is fine, but acid sulfate soils around the Logan River + 'Koala Tollway' will make an extension of this freeway up to the Gateway M1 toxic and unviable.

[#Metro]

Well there will be 3 new stations (Pimpama, Helensvale North/Hope Island & Worongary/Merrimac), plus the fact that population on the Gold Coast, particularly northern GC is growing rapidly. I board at Ormeau and some days can't get a carpark at 7am, and it's not unusual for the train to be so full I have to stand until Park Road. GC line passenger demand growing by 100% from now to CRR opening is entirely feasible.

Really doubt this. Extra stations will generate some genuinely new patronage, but some of that will be by decreasing patronage at older existing stations that are adjacent. Car park congestion is not a good metric because we all know a 1000 pax car park fills just one train.

I would say that a lot of that "rapid growth" on the GC is also not very dense growth. And then again, only a fraction of that is Brisbane bound. For example, Ipswich/Springfield is also "rapidly growing" but the combined Ipswich and Springfield line trains in the busiest hour 7 am - 8 am has only 8 trains.

That's two cities worth, both rapidly growing:

DARRA 7:09 7:15 7:21 7:27 7:33 7:39 7:45 7:57

So I don't know where this GC train every 5 minutes idea is coming from.

So I really doubt it. In any case, the timetable can always be changed later when that growth materialises (if ever).

[BrizCommuter]

It is much more sensible to use the capacity that is available.  Over 20 tph available via both routes.  Half of CRR's capacity is going to be for Gold Coast trains (12 per hour), another 8 or so will be outer Beenleigh services.  Where do the Kuraby services go but via South Bank, unless you want to restrict them to 15 minute headways indefinitely and never be able to add any other services?

Gold Coast trains every 5 minutes? Is that right??

Currently, there are six trains/hour coming from the Gold Coast and passing Park Road in the AM peak. (7am - 8am, Park Road).

7:02, 7:09, 7:17, 7:32, 7:39, 7:47 AM

Will be surprised if GC line peak patronage jumps 100% on tunnel opening.

Can't really see why all GC and Beenleigh trains can't go via the tunnel during all off-peak periods, and likely during peak periods as well.

Update
---

And why are trains beginning at Salisbury? That is not a terminus station with stabling facilities. Will services be dead running empty from Beenleigh to make up those?

There are multiple reasons why some trains will have to run via South Bank:
- To maintain peak capacity through South Bank. Cleveland Line services (8tph unless there is a duplication) won't be enough.
- To avoid running CRR at maximum capacity (24tph) which would have lower reliability
- There is nowhere for 24tph to go to at the Northern End of CRR
- Better journey opportunities.

Salisbury services would ultimately be extended to the Flagstone Line if it is ever built. Reversing facilities would need to be constructed, this could just be a reversing siding South of the Sydney Line junction.

Of course, in the land of QLD ineptitude reality, CRR will open with a half-arsed service (or half-arsed service on other lines a la #RailFail) due to lack of drivers, trains, and additional track infrastructure.

[#Metro]

There are multiple reasons why some trains will have to run via South Bank:
- To maintain peak capacity through South Bank. Cleveland Line services (8tph unless there is a duplication) won't be enough.
- To avoid running CRR at maximum capacity (24tph) which would have lower reliability
- There is nowhere for 24tph to go to at the Northern End of CRR
- Better journey opportunities.

- Can't see why services need to originate at Salisbury. If the Flagstone line doesn't exist, the train does not need to start or terminate there until the line does exist. The line may not even ever be built. It only took the good people of Kippa-Ring 100 or so years...

- Trains every 5 min from the GC on tunnel opening is highly unlikely, and I don't believe it.
Off-peak, there are no capacity constraint reasons to run some via Merivale and some via the tunnel.

- The CRR website shows CRR trains exiting the tunnel before Exhibition station and then running on the surface through Mayne before entering the network at a point after Bowen Hills. Would it not be possible to turn back some trains after they exit the tunnel at a point after Exhibition station / around Mayne? After all, many peak hour trains on the network already terminate at Bowen Hills.

https://www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/info-2/#rail-route-top

- The only stations "missed" are South Bank and South Brisbane.  CRR serves Roma Street and Park Road - people for those two stations can just change at Roma Street or Park Road. The busway network also serves those two locations already. The journey options are still there. You will still be able to access the GC and Beenleigh lines from South Bank and South Brisbane - with a same station transfer.

If more capacity on the network through South Bank and South Brisbane is required - run more Cleveland line trains. IIRC people are already having trouble getting on/off peak hour Cleveland line services.

They don't all have to originate at the Cleveland terminus, you could for example, have more trains run from Manly, Cannon Hill etc. (The area around Cannon Hill has quite a bit of new housing also).

[SurfRail]

So I don't know where this GC train every 5 minutes idea is coming from.

Have a look at the planned operating model.  Your belief isn't relevant, the available information says 12tph from south of Beenleigh.

[#Metro]

Any " plan " coming out of the Queensland Government should be treated with scepticism!

Which plan is this? Connecting SEQ 2050? 

[BrizCommuter]

There are multiple reasons why some trains will have to run via South Bank:
- To maintain peak capacity through South Bank. Cleveland Line services (8tph unless there is a duplication) won't be enough.
- To avoid running CRR at maximum capacity (24tph) which would have lower reliability
- There is nowhere for 24tph to go to at the Northern End of CRR
- Better journey opportunities.

- Can't see why services need to originate at Salisbury. If the Flagstone line doesn't exist, the train does not need to start or terminate there until the line does exist. The line may not even ever be built. It only took the good people of Kippa-Ring 100 or so years...

- Trains every 5 min from the GC on tunnel opening is highly unlikely, and I don't believe it.
Off-peak, there are no capacity constraint reasons to run some via Merivale and some via the tunnel.

- The CRR website shows CRR trains exiting the tunnel before Exhibition station and then running on the surface through Mayne before entering the network at a point after Bowen Hills. Would it not be possible to turn back some trains after they exit the tunnel at a point after Exhibition station / around Mayne? After all, many peak hour trains on the network already terminate at Bowen Hills.

https://www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/info-2/#rail-route-top

- The only stations "missed" are South Bank and South Brisbane.  CRR serves Roma Street and Park Road - people for those two stations can just change at Roma Street or Park Road. The busway network also serves those two locations already. The journey options are still there. You will still be able to access the GC and Beenleigh lines from South Bank and South Brisbane - with a same station transfer.

If more capacity on the network through South Bank and South Brisbane is required - run more Cleveland line trains. IIRC people are already having trouble getting on/off peak hour Cleveland line services.

They don't all have to originate at the Cleveland terminus, you could for example, have more trains run from Manly, Cannon Hill etc. (The area around Cannon Hill has quite a bit of new housing also).

Track layouts, reversing points, future service patterns, and allowing outer Beenleigh Line services to run express from Salisbury dictate that it is the sensible temporary terminus.

Why are you suggesting running Gold Coast services via Merivale Bridge off-peak, that would be very confusing?

There will quite easily be demand for 12tph Gold Coast services.

Reversing excessive trains north to south around Mayne is an inefficient use of rollingtstock that could otherwise run via South Bank and service a Northside line.

You highly underestimate the demand for via South Bank services (which will only increase with more development). I use South Bank station and it is very busy in the peaks. There is considerable counter-peak traffic from Roma St to/from South Bank/Brisbane.

Terminating extra via South Bank services early on the Cleveland Line is again an inefficient use of rollingstock. There are also limited reversing points on the Cleveland Line, which is already at capacity in the peaks (minus the removed services due to Rail Fail).

I know you don't like it, but running some inner-Beenleigh Line services via South Bank will be a much more efficient use of resources than running all trains via CRR, and better balances northside and southside service patterns. 

[#Metro]

Brizcommuter, my position was run all Gold Coast and Beenleigh trains via the tunnel at all times.

[matlock]

Any " plan " coming out of the Queensland Government should be treated with scepticism!

Which plan is this? Connecting SEQ 2050? 

The Cross River Rail website explicitly mentions Flagstone. I think that is a major hint that they're serious about making that line a reality within the next 10 years.

Is Trouts Road still happening as well?

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommuter is predicting that the knock-on effects of Rail Fail and NGR Fail will negatively impact on CRR's opening in 2024. The blog article will be published in the next fortnight.

[James]

Have a look at the planned operating model.  Your belief isn't relevant, the available information says 12tph from south of Beenleigh.

I think given the current state of infrastructure, 12tph on the opening of CRR south of Beenleigh is fanciful. 12tph seems like one of those 'Connecting SEQ 2041' plans where everything materialises in 2040.

Even if we get all the trains in the world and all the fully-trained drivers and guards in the world, fundamentally there is a track capacity issue between Beenleigh and Kuraby where an express train is unable to pass an all-stops train. Unless GC trains are going to stop all stations to Kuraby, I can't see how 12tph will work. Perhaps all stops to Loganlea and express from there inbound could negate this problem, but try selling an extra 6 stops to someone travelling from Robina (3 new infill stations + Holmview/Eden's Landing/Bethania).

I mentioned this above, but it didn't receive much comment, but Brisbane is in desperate need of a Sydney-style Clearways program. No new infrastructure, just key duplications, triplications and quad track as required.

[dancingmongoose]

I mentioned this above, but it didn't receive much comment, but Brisbane is in desperate need of a Sydney-style Clearways program. No new infrastructure, just key duplications, triplications and quad track as required.

Absolutely, and add grade separation to that