Cross River Rail Project

[Gazza]

Hasnt bus patronage been slow too over the same period?

Edit it has:

BUS PATRONAGE

2008-09: 114.4m
2009-10: 117.9m
2010-11: 119.12
2011-12: 120.3m
2012-13:119.77m
2013-14: 118.65m
2014-15: 113.13m
2015-16: 114.11m

Shows that fares and general crapness in Brisbane is to blame, not wrong projections.

By that logic, defer the metro too 

Sick of public transport run like sh%t, and then blaming passengers unwillingness to put up with that as a reason to justify non investment.

[ozbob]

^ thanks Gazza.  Excellent point.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/876272023160225792

^

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/876272694487957504

^

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/876273265416691712

[Gazza]

Cross River Rail has been designed to death over the past to 10 years.
But hey, deferring to 2026 as Frecklington suggests gives us another 10 years to tweak the same old basic design and do and re do change reports and EISs 

The capacity constraint on the Merivale Bridge won't occur until 2026 at the earliest, so we have the time to get this right."

top joke

It's daft anyway. If we start tommorrow, it'll be ready in 2022 at the earliest. Frecklington reckons 2026.

If the tunnel is going to be around for 80-100 years, is building it 4 years earlier actually a problem?

[kram0]

I have sent a strongly worded email to Tim asking him to outline LNP's plans for CRR, let's hope he has the courtesy to reply.

[ozbob]

I have sent a strongly worded email to Tim asking him to outline LNP's plans for CRR, let's hope he has the courtesy to reply.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/876538202177191936

^

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/876543963829649408

[#Metro]

MUCH prefer the original headline. Guess it was unprintable. 

[SteelPan]

Which one of these two proposed projects

1) BAT
2) CRR  V3,789,543,582

Would have allowed to be developed, literally right under/at the doors of [ie, Circular Quay like] a fully integrated RAIL/FERRY/BUS CBD interchange....right under [like it or not] what will be a multi-billion dollar tourist/lifestyle hub in the CBD



Stop the lies......Bring Back BAT!!!!!!

[#Metro]

1) BAT
2) CRR  V3,789,543,582

Would have allowed to be developed, literally right under/at the doors of [ie, Circular Quay like] a fully integrated RAIL/FERRY/BUS CBD interchange....right under [like it or not] what will be a multi-billion dollar tourist/lifestyle hub in the CBD



Stop the lies......Bring Back BAT!!!!!!

Hi SteelPan. The BaT solution does have some merit and work has been done by TMR into its feasibility. Although there appear to be no

engineering reasons that would prevent its construction, the bus component is now made redundant by the Brisbane METRO.

You are correct that combined interchange would be a major advantage of a combined tunnel (despite the huge criticism of that aspect on

this forum by others), however, the CRR is the project that is being built at the moment.


Only if there were a change of government would it be likely that a return to that project would again be in the

pipeline. Indeed, I suspect that this is what the Blue Team game plan is - resurrect BaT if they return to office and place the Brisbane

METRO into the bus component.


So at the moment, it is CRR, and that is an acceptable solution IMO now that the Brisbane METRO is sorted.

[SurfRail]

There are several engineering problems with BaT actually - fire protection is a BIG one which to my knowledge was never resolved.

So...

[Stillwater]

The LNP has sniffed the breeze and now see it is politically advantageous to support CRR BUT to kick the project down the track a few more years (probably to oblivion if that occurs), presumably because the money the State Government has kicked into it would be reallocated by an LNP government into pet projects they have in mind ... that means projects in seats they hope to retain or win at the next election.

Yet they have ignored the weapon they can use now to attack State Labor.  They can say that the ALP wants to build a tunnel that will be made useless because they won't have the trains needed to operate the services through it (NGR).

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/CrossRiverRail/status/876680830768132096

[SurfRail]

Yet they have ignored the weapon they can use now to attack State Labor.  They can say that the ALP wants to build a tunnel that will be made useless because they won't have the trains needed to operate the services through it (NGR).

More like wanting to avoid being hoist on their own petard.

[Stillwater]

What's happened merely was a seminar involving industry, telling them that CRR is happening.  We should not confuse slick PR with construction activity.

[ozbob]

Letter to the Editor Queensland Times 20th June 2017 page 17

Looking into the future of transport

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/CrossRiverRail/status/877435953077305345

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/CrossRiverRail/status/877797611184336896

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Traffic congestion is a handbrake on economic growth

Imagine if each and every year, the Australian government discovered a hollow log containing $16.5 billion.

We could use that windfall to boost services or reduce government debt. Or we could return the money to the pockets of families and small businesses via tax cuts.

Actual hollow logs are rare in Canberra.

But it is sobering to think that traffic congestion is costing the national economy $16.5 billion in lost productivity each year, according to the government's own bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics.

That figure is expected to reach $53 billion a year by 2031 if nothing is done.

It makes economic sense to act to reduce these losses.
Advertisement

That would involve investing in better urban rail as well as roads, making it cheaper and easier for people and goods to move around our cities.

Such action would lower costs to business, boost profitability and allow businesses to create more jobs.

This is not rocket science. It's common sense.

But the Coalition government is reducing investment in roads and refusing to make new investments in public transport infrastructure. This inaction is allowing traffic congestion to worsen and detracting from other elements of government policy aimed at lifting growth.

Peak industry group Infrastructure Partnerships Australia recently warned that last month's budget would drive federal infrastructure investment to its lowest level in more than a decade.

That's not surprising.

In 2013 the incoming Coalition government cancelled all Commonwealth investment in public transport, scuttling funding deals reached by the former Labor government to deliver projects such as Brisbane's Cross River Rail and the Melbourne Metro.

It reallocated the funding to dud toll road projects including Melbourne's East-West Link and the Perth Freight Link.

But both of these projects had not been the subject of proper planning and collapsed when it became clear they did not stack up in terms of design or value for public money.

When Malcolm Turnbull took over the prime ministership in 2015 he reversed predecessor Tony Abbott's public transport ban, at least in rhetorical terms.

But while the Prime Minister enjoys taking selfies aboard trains, trams and buses, he has failed to provide new investment for trains, trams or buses.

The budget included a plan for a National Rail Fund which the government says could be used to contribute to rail projects including Cross River Rail and the Melbourne Metro, as well as newer proposals such as the AdeLINK light rail project and the Western Sydney Rail link to the new Western Sydney Airport.

But this fund is a sham.

It won't yield a dollar this year, next year or the year after.

Meanwhile, the excuses continue.

Back in 2012, the independent Infrastructure Australia declared Cross River Rail was "ready to proceed" and placed it at the top of its National Infrastructure Priority List. Five years later, Mr Turnbull is refusing to contribute to the project, claiming that it has not been assessed by Infrastructure Australia.

Mr Turnbull is also trying to sideline Infrastructure Australia by creating a new Infrastructure Financing Unit within the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet.

The IFU is supposed to work with the private sector on "innovative" arrangements to finance infrastructure projects.

But the IFU is a solution looking for a problem.

Infrastructure Partnerships Australia, which includes investors in its membership, says there is no need for this body.

"Commonwealth government funding support is needed for infrastructure," IPA said in its pre-budget submission.

"Commonwealth financing is not."

Traffic congestion acts as a handbrake on economic growth and is a misery to commuters.

It won't fix itself. It requires Commonwealth leadership and investment to help states, local government and the private sector to deliver.

Anthony Albanese is the opposition spokesman for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development.

[kram0]

Coming too you live from the Singapore MRT, where they have built 2 new lines (in addition to the existing lines) in the last 10 years (while we have been talking about CRR) with more either under construction or planned to start in the next couple of years. Once more most lines are driverless and operate on a timetable of every 1-2 minutes peak and every 5 minutes off peak with a trip from Changi Airport to the City costing around $2 Australian.

[Cazza]

Coming too you live from the Singapore MRT, where they have built 2 new lines (in addition to the existing lines) in the last 10 years (while we have been talking about CRR) with more either under construction or planned to start in the next couple of years. Once more most lines are driverless and operate on a timetable of every 1-2 minutes peak and every 5 minutes off peak with a trip from Changi Airport to the City costing around $2 Australian.

Stop rubbing the salt into the wound! 

[#Metro]

SMRT is a multimodal transport provider (Rail, Buses, Taxis) owned by Temasek Holdings Pte Ltd. Until recently, it was listed on the Singapore Stock Exchange as a for-profit business. IMO it is a potential contender for operating trains (and possibly BCC buses) here in SEQ should the system be opened up to any fit and proper operator to apply.

It would be very interesting to have a single operator work both BCC buses and QR trains. Might facilitate the integration of the two systems better than at current.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMRT_Corporation

[ozbob]

The Conversation --> Brisbane's Cross River Rail will feed the centre at the expense of people in the suburbs

The Cross River Rail project offers a solution to a narrowly conceived problem while ignoring the bigger picture of metropolitan planning.

The Queensland government is pushing for the Cross River Rail project, a second railway connection through Brisbane's CBD.

In the state's ShapingSEQ regional plan, advocates of the project claim it will remove a constraint on job growth by improving access to inner Brisbane. However, the plan neglects an alternative strategy of prioritising job growth in a few strong "metropolitan centres" within the greater Brisbane metropolitan area to the CBD's north, west and south.

The Cross River Rail project emerged from a narrow focus on boosting the CBD's peak-hour commuting capacity by overcoming a bottleneck on the single rail bridge across the Brisbane River. The issue was framed as a problem, rather than a potential opportunity to encourage employment decentralisation.

Life outside the CBD

It's been 60 years since Australia's first drive-in shopping centre, Westfield Chermside, opened in Brisbane's north. The centre is now one of the largest in Australia.

In the ShapingSEQ plan, Chermside is one of 11 "principal regional activity centres" outside the CBD competing for market share within Brisbane's greater metro area. If media reports are correct, there is an "arms race" between some centres on Brisbane's northside.

But is competition between so many centres the best strategy for a metro area with rapid population growth, most of it expected at the fringe? Would it be better to have three "key metropolitan centres" providing more diverse employment and higher-level services – not just "big box" shopping – closer to these areas than the CBD is?

These questions have been dodged for more than a decade.

Key metropolitan centres

Planning authorities promoted a key metropolitan centres concept as early as the mid-1970s. The Moreton Region Growth Strategy recommended three key centres in metropolitan Brisbane, beyond the CBD. Each was to be a focal point for "public and private employment growth".

These three centres were to be given "priority over other centres in relation to planning, promotional and resource allocation activities of government". The report considered key centres offering alternative employment locations to the central city "both necessary and feasible".

This approach was continued during the 1990s in the Regional Framework for Growth Management (RFGM) in the southeast. By 2005, when the first statutory regional plan was introduced, the concept had been dropped.

Instead, a policy of "principal regional activity centres" was adopted and remains in effect. It was based largely on centres designated by local councils at that time, rather than being a more integrated regional approach.

The large area of the city relative to southeast Queensland means Brisbane City Council has significant influence on planning for the region. Without its support, a policy of key metropolitan centres outside the Brisbane City boundary would not have been possible. Such a policy would have necessarily restrained the growth of some centres within the city.

In addition, background research for the 1994 RFGM noted that "considerable forward planning effort" would be needed to consolidate retailing, office, civic and community facilities in selected locations. Any resolve to undertake this seems to have dissipated by 2005.

About that time, and particularly after the global financial crisis, transport infrastructure development became more about promoting economic growth than being part of an integrated land use strategy. This was particularly evident in Brisbane's TransApex road projects, with Cross River Rail falling into a similar category.

Infrastructure development has since threatened to supersede spatial planning in Australian metropolitan areas.
Thinking strategically about the whole city

If built, the rail project will serve areas that already have comparatively good public transport services. The suburban areas where most people live would continue to have limited transport options.

RMIT's Jago Dodson has called for a stronger suburban focus in city policy. Projects like the Cross River Rail project have "questionable merit", according to Dodson, and will have "little impact on conditions in our suburban growth areas".

A key metropolitan centres policy would likely create more benefits for these growth areas, particularly if combined with effectively networked public transport offering good service to these centres.

Some upgrades of southeast Queensland's passenger rail network might be needed. These should serve the agreed spatial planning strategy rather than being narrowly focused on relieving forecast congestion.

The sense of urgency created around Cross River Rail works against the need for genuine community engagement in planning for the Brisbane metro area and the broader region.

The Cross River Rail project should be considered in the context of a metropolitan area that citizens want, not simply as a response to forecast travel demand.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

I also posted this as a comment on the article at The Conversation.

6th July 2017

Comment: Article 'Brisbane's Cross River Rail will feed the centre at the expense of people in the suburbs'

Greetings,

RAIL Back on Track wishes to comment on an article that appeared in The Conversation late yesterday.
The gist of the article is that perhaps Cross River Rail should not be built, but instead a "central planning"
approach taken to direct businesses to locate outside the Brisbane Central Business District.

We disagree. It's a bit like saying that Cross River Rail isn't required because the Gold Coast, the Sunshine Coast, and Ipswich all exist and
businesses can just move there as an alternative to locating in Brisbane.

In Queensland, businesses are free to locate in whatever part of Queensland they like.
RAIL Back on Track would welcome changes to zoning and planning rules that would permit more mixed use development,
particularly around key activity centres. However, we are not convinced that this would have any bearing on the
requirement for extra capacity at peak hour for trains across the Merivale Railway Bridge.

The article ignores entirely the existence of a non-planning mechanism that already pushes against "too many" businesses locating
in the Brisbane CBD. Namely, the price system. The popularity of the Brisbane CBD is what makes it expensive
to locate there. This expensiveness, in turn, encourages businesses that do not need to be within the CBD to look at locating
elsewhere.

We noticed that although the article cast doubt over Cross River Rail, the article also gave no examples of any cities where
the "decentralisation" approach being advocated had been tried and was demonstrably successful in postponing further infrastructure
works. Indeed, activity centres such as Chermside and Carindale have major access issues as they are not located on railway
lines. A further intensification of development (which we would not oppose) requires the extension of the busway network,
a task that we believe would cost around $100 - 200 million per kilometre. In other words, even with this alternative approach,
(and assuming that it 100% really did work) we would still need to spend a comparably large sum of money on infrastructure works in
the form of a Northern Busway extension or an Eastern Busway extension. Neither extension could go ahead without enabling works
to unblock the core of the Brisbane CBD, which is what Brisbane City Council's the $0.5 BN Brisbane Metro Project seeks to do.

And of course, we don't even know if this suggested alternative approach is effective, or works at all.
If the "satellite centre" approach actually worked, surely we would not be facing today's railway capacity constraints
across the Merivale Bridge as businesses would simply have chosen to locate on the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast and in
Ipswich. In fact, businesses now have another choice - Springfield Lakes - which is rapidly emerging as a new satellite city.

Internationally, the approach advocated does not appear to work. London, for example, has a vast number of satellite cities.
The mere existence of these satellite cities has not prevented the need and construction of one of the United Kingdom's
most expensive transport projects - the GBP 15 billion Cross Rail project that will connect one side of London
to the other side of London.

The article also makes a similar argument to that advanced by the Liberal National Party - that Cross River Rail is an "inner city"
project that will only benefit a few areas near the Brisbane CBD. Nothing could be further from the truth! Sure, the infrastructure
is in the Brisbane CBD, but the main beneficiaries of the infrastructure will be residents of the Gold Coast and Logan City Council
areas. The fact that Cross River Rail stations will be located at Woolloongabba, the CBD, Roma Street and Exhibition is purely incidental.

After almost ten years of inaction, we need Cross River Rail. It is a project that will benefit all of South East Queensland. Cross River Rail allows for more trains and new railways throughout SEQ.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Reference:

Brisbane's Cross River Rail will feed the centre at the expense of people in the suburbs
https://theconversation.com/brisbanes-cross-river-rail-will-feed-the-centre-at-the-expense-of-people-in-the-suburbs-79418

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/882755284287889408

[ozbob]

Analogous to Cross River Rail in a general sense ..

https://twitter.com/metrotunnelvic/status/882567134714372097

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/9NewsQueensland/status/885020478364147712

^

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/885961523696291845

[kram0]

Feedback from Cross River Rail authority.

Hi,

The GoPrint site is proposed to be the primary staging site for the tunnel boring machines (TBMs) and the location of the future Woolloongabba station. Early works and procurement of major works will take up to 18 months, with major construction works to commence in late 2018.

[ozbob]

^  thanks ..

https://twitter.com/CrossRiverRail/status/886853856893775873

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> LNP refuse to pledge rail link funds

THE LNP has refused to commit to funding Cross River Rail without the help of the Commonwealth, leaving a massive question mark over the future of the $5.4 billion new train link if it wins the next election.

Opposition Leader Tim Nicholls on Monday declined to match the Palaszczuk Government's Budget pledge to build the second river crossing whether Queensland has Malcolm Turnbull's help or not.

The Government last night demanded the Opposition Leader be frank with Queenslanders ahead of an election as the state's peak infrastructure industry group called for its support.

But asked directly whether the LNP would be prepared to go it alone, Mr Nicholls would only commit to working with the Prime Minister on the ­project.

"Unlike Labor, the LNP won't cut infrastructure funding," he said.

"After 12 months Labor still hasn't released the secret business case for Cross River Rail — if the project stacks up they should release the business case.

"The LNP has a track record of working with the federal Government to get the best deal for Queenslanders, not picking petty political fights."

Mr Nicholls said he had "always said that there's going to be a need for another link across the Brisbane River", but didn't support the project going ahead "without a business case being made publicly available and at the expense of infrastructure throughout the state".

A sanitised business case is due for release next month.

Mr Nicholls's comments follow his claims that Labor's promise to build was "nothing more than a blatant, political, face-saving exercise" for Deputy Premier Jackie Trad's South Brisbane seat.

The Opposition Leader's comments throw doubt over the $5.4 billion new train link, should he win the next election.

Ms Trad said it was time the Opposition made its position clear and she predicted that only a Labor Government would build the underground train line.

"We saw the LNP cancel Cross River Rail the first time, which set us back years, and now Tim Nicholls is refusing to reveal his position on the project," she said.

"You can't trust the LNP to deliver public transport infrastructure for Queensland."

She said "grandstanding tactics" by Mr Nicholls that the project was just for the inner city showed he didn't understand it was needed to unclog the bottleneck over the Merivale Bridge, increase services and build the Sunshine Coast, Flagstone and Springfield rail extensions.

Infrastructure Association of Queensland chief executive Steve Abson insisted Cross River Rail had "tremendous benefits" and a "project worth backing".

"What we don't want to do is go back to the last seven years of seeing three different incarnations of this particular project," he said.

"What we don't want to see is squabbling over major investments and believe that the LNP should be supporting the state's number one priority project."

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/886989784081616897

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/886990052848353280

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/886994167066275840

[ozbob]

I have had a gut-full of these stupid dumb political games. Turnbull has held back funding for CRR in an deranged attempt to give Nicholls et al a leg up.  Well I do not think it will work.  The LNP is very very dumb.  They clearly have not learned much over the past three years or from the wipe-out last time.  They do not have much policy sense.  The ALP have their issues, but clearly the role of LNP in setting up rail fail and their major botch with the NGR will prove costly as the election proceeds. Newman's mate, the former DG TMR has much to answer for, as do Newman,  Nicholls & Emerson.

[ozbob]

Engineers Australia

State Infrastructure Plan Update and Cross River Rail Breakfast

> https://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/portal/event/state-infrastructure-plan-update-and-cross-river-rail-breakfast

INFRASTRUCTURE IS HAPPENING

In a bold move, the Queensland Government has stepped up to commit funding for its number one infrastructure priority in the 2017-2018 State Budget, without federal support. 

After a budget season which focused on priority infrastructure at all levels of government, you can already feel the positive momentum of industry planning for opportunities to deliver projects in the Sunshine State. Infrastructure needs collaboration and courage, and this exclusive breakfast covering two critical Queensland initiatives will be sure to demonstrate both. 

Speakers:

Department of Infrastructure Local Government and Planning, Director-General, and Cross River Rail Delivery Authority, Chairperson, Frankie Carroll

Releasing the 2017 update to the State Infrastructure Plan (SIP) and commenting on addressing the state's future infrastructure needs.

Cross River Rail Delivery Authority, Head of Authority, Graeme Newton

Setting the new strategic direction for Queensland's number one infrastructure priority, early challenges for the Delivery Authority and preparing for procurement and construction.

This is a not to be missed industry event hosted in partnership by Infrastructure Association of Queensland, Engineers Australia and Consult Australia.

[Stillwater]

QUOTE: "The GoPrint site is proposed to be the primary staging site for the tunnel boring machines (TBMs) and the location of the future Woolloongabba station. Early works and procurement of major works will take up to 18 months, with major construction works to commence in late 2018."

And Jackie Trad said back in May that 'work could start tomorrow' -- tomorrow too far away, it seems.

[ozbob]

I have been advised that further geo-technical surveys are about to commence and early works on Go Print site September 2017.

[kram0]

In other correspondence from the CRR team, they have advised that demolition and site preparation at the Go Print site will commence in September 2017 with major tunnelling works to commence in late 2018. We are slowly moving in the right direction.

[Stillwater]

The ALP should push the project as fast as it can so that work is substantially progressed by the time of the next election.  That way, the LNP would have a big job of halting it and filling the hole back in. 

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Opinion: Commuters have a right to know

ALL too often, voters tire of hearing promises from politicians that never seem to ­materialise.

Commuters on packed trains have heard for years how Cross River Rail will save them time — up to 15 minutes — and deliver them extra services on their daily grind to work.

But many remain dubious they'll ever emerge from planned city subways, considering the series of iterations aired for almost a decade.

The Palaszczuk Government made a Budget pledge to entirely fund and open the $5.4 billion line by 2024, even if the Turnbull Government won't come to the party.

But nothing can be guaranteed with an election on the way.

The Newman Government turned Labor's last Cross River Rail into the BaT (Bus and Train) Tunnel when it won office.

Now the LNP is refusing to say what its plans are for state's largest infrastructure project.

The project isn't new. It hasn't caught the Opposition by surprise. With an election months away, Queenslanders have the right to know where they stand.

^ spot on ! 

[Mr X]

Sad thing is, is that a lot of punters will probably swallow the LNP's spin "The ALP's CRR project is a gold plated waste of money... budget emergency.. rail fail they can't run trains.. CRR will never be delivered..  but hey here's another $500mil road so you can save 90 sec on your commute, and we can have more people sitting in chronic congestion!"

We've been talking about this for a decade and had they just started building it back in 2010/11, with a then Labor state and Labor federal government, it probably could have been delivered and operating by now.

[Cazza]

And Jackie Trad said back in May that 'work could start tomorrow' -- tomorrow too far away, it seems.

Tomorrow never arrives...