Cross River Rail Project

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Cross River Rail acting boss led 2011 floods recovery


Graeme Newton is now acting head of the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority Board. Photo: Deloitte

The man who headed the recovery effort after the 2011 Queensland floods has been appointed the interim head of the Cross River Rail project.

Former Queensland Reconstruction Authority CEO Graeme Newton is now acting head of the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority Board and will lead the search for a permanent CEO.

Deputy Premier and Transport Minister Jackie Trad announced the appointment in state parliament on Friday.

"The Delivery Authority will be working in close partnership with industry to ensure that they are involved every step of the way and are able to maximise their involvement in the efficient delivery of the project.

The government announced in its budget this week that it would pay for the full cost of the $5.4 billion project, after the federal government elected not to allocate any funds towards it in its May budget.

However, the state government said it would continue to pressure the Commonwealth to fund the project.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/CrossRiverRail/status/875155454107635712

Cross River Rail. It's happening.

With the State Government's announcement yesterday of a full project funding commitment, we are building Cross River Rail.

Hear from Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk, Deputy Premier Jackie Trad and the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority about the project and its benefits to South East Queensland and the project's next steps, including procurement and the role of industry going forward. This project will shape our city and economy. It will define the way future generations live, work and play in South East Queensland. We hope you can join us as we take this next step on Queensland's number one infrastructure project.

Date and time: Friday 16 June 2017 12pm – 12:45pm (UTC+ 10:00, Brisbane time)

The Cross River Rail Project Update will be live streamed here on Friday 16 June at 12:00pm.

Now

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/875540056227721216

[ozbob]

16th June 2017

Media Release

JOINT STATEMENT

Premier and Minister for the Arts
The Honourable Annastacia Palaszczuk

Deputy Premier, Minister for Transport and Minister for Infrastructure and Planning
The Honourable Jackie Trad

Packed industry forum backs Cross River Rail

The construction industry has embraced the start of Cross River Rail, with a room full of major contractors, building companies and potential suppliers attending an industry briefing on Queensland's number one infrastructure project.

During the briefing at Parliament House, Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said it was imperative that industry was on board, with early works for Cross River Rail set to start in September.

"Industry is ready to play its part after my Government committed to fully fund Cross River Rail," the Premier said. 

"We are wasting no time - I have been clear that Cross River Rail is happening and that we will deliver this nation building infrastructure project.

"I understand that we need our industry leaders to be ready to act on our tenders and start the flow of jobs which is why we are having our first industry briefing today."

Deputy Premier and Minister for Infrastructure Jackie Trad said the briefing outlined the project's scope and was live streamed for national and international companies.

"We are getting on with the job of building Cross River Rail and are bringing industry with us," Ms Trad said.

"I'm pleased to announce that Graeme Newton will be the Acting Head of the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority while we embark on the search for a CEO.

"Graeme is perfectly placed to drive this project forward. He works for Deloitte Australia with a national focus on the delivery of large, complex and high profile infrastructure and major capital projects. He is also a former Coordinator-General and CEO of the Queensland Reconstruction Authority."

Acting Head of the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority Graeme Newton said he was delighted to join the Delivery Authority.

"This fully funded $5.4 billion infrastructure project will be a flagship project for industry and an opportunity to showcase world-leading design and delivery practices," Mr Newton said.

"A great amount of planning has gone before us and now is the time to flip the switch and get on with the job of building Cross River Rail.

"The Delivery Authority is in a unique position to partner with industry to build Cross River Rail and we will look to industry and our other delivery partners to mobilise quickly so that Queenslander's can realise the benefits of Cross River Rail sooner."

To see the briefing and for more information visit: www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au

[SteelPan]

Why have you gone all negative on CRR all of a sudden?

His rates have gone up to pay for Metro that he'll never use

SteelPan has mainly been trolling lately.

1) I'm not "negative on CRR" - I said on-wards and upwards and congratulated govt - regardless of political colour, on some of the major rail projects undertaken in SEQ in recent years - I'd like to see MORE.

2) comment re trolling - irrelevant

3) Comment re no-one puts a bus tunnel on top of a train tunnel - irrelevant and frankly dumb!

4) AGAIN, no-one answers the question, apart from a 2nd CBD Rail corridor - what's CRR really achieve? It seems to simply put more public transit infrastructure, into regions with already considerable public transit infrastructure! For the billions spent, where's the rail infrastructure to parts of Brisbane totally UNserved by rail? For example, a govt now wanting to get me all excited about turning the glaringly obvious inner-city Ekka station, into an actual 365 day factional rail station, does not get me jumping around like a little kid, that one's been there, for any govt to do for years [as in generations] and they all have shown ZIP interest!

AGAIN, it's what I think people in the art world would call very "minimalist"!  If fact, if you blokes were really honest, like Quirk's back-the-front buses for his freaky bus "Metro"     [funny I don't play political favourites when it's outright silly] - all CRR [and Metro] do....is bump a whole bunch of issues a few years down the track!

[#Metro]

Hi SteelPan,

Thanks for your post. The simple reality is that Queensland does not have the funds or political setup to perform 'rail everywhere'.

As you have just witnessed, it has taken almost 10 years to push Cross River Rail through the political system.

It would be a dream to have Regional Rapid Rail, a subway on every corner and such like. But there are other modes of transport

aside from rail - bus, ferry, tram etc - that can also move people around.


Cross River Rail is something that is located in the inner city, but it has benefits network wide due to the simple fact that all trains must pass

through the city core. The sole exception are Rosewood services that originate and terminate at Ipswich/Rosewood. Nothing works otherwise.


Brisbane has plenty of rail stations - there are around 85 alone within the Brisbane City Council area.

That's about 55% of the QR network in the BCC area and more train stations than busway stops.

Rail isn't just for long distances, but short distances as well.


The problem with rail isn't a lack of stations within the BCC area.

No, the problem is (a) frequency is terrible, (b) it is ridiculously expensive and time-consuming (9+ months training) to add 1 additional

service due to extreme service production costs and the requirement for 2 staff per train, (c) a whole host of legacy issues like curvy platforms

and platforms at very low height. I could go on.


What needs to happen is Bus Reform, so that people can get to the existing QR stations near them. There needs to be a removal of guards

(yes, it will cost money to fix stations, but the result will be a permanent fix), and a general boosting of daytime all-day frequency on lines

such as Shorncliffe, Cleveland etc. Removal of level crossings, duplication of single track. I much prefer these things than new rail corridors

or spurs to anywhere.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/7NewsQueensland/status/875599474868985859

[Gazza]

due to extreme service production costs

But QR staff aren't building the trains themselves.

[Gazza]

3) Comment re no-one puts a bus tunnel on top of a train tunnel - irrelevant and frankly dumb!

4) AGAIN, no-one answers the question, apart from a 2nd CBD Rail corridor - what's CRR really achieve? It seems to simply put more public transit infrastructure, into regions with already considerable public transit infrastructure! For the billions spent, where's the rail infrastructure to parts of Brisbane totally UNserved by rail? For example, a govt now wanting to get me all excited about turning the glaringly obvious inner-city Ekka station, into an actual 365 day factional rail station, does not get me jumping around like a little kid, that one's been there, for any govt to do for years [as in generations] and they all have shown ZIP interest!

AGAIN, it's what I think people in the art world would call very "minimalist"!  If fact, if you blokes were really honest, like Quirk's back-the-front buses for his freaky bus "Metro"     [funny I don't play political favourites when it's outright silly] - all CRR [and Metro] do....is bump a whole bunch of issues a few years down the track!

Bus tunnels on top of trains, no its dumb.

Tunneling is the most expensive form of transport corridoor, so you want to maxmize the usage so more people get to benefit from it. Trains can carry heaps more people per hour, so you'd have a situation where you have a lower deck carrying heaps of people with fewer staff, and an upper deck carrying less people with more staff.  Madness 

If you are going to do a double deck, either have rail on both levels (like the Melbourne city loop) or have something with at least semi reasonable capacity on the upper deck (Like BART heavy rail / Muni Light rail)
But busses on the top is pissweak, which is why no other cities do it....Because its inherently the least efficient option.
It is good BaT got dropped, because it means the money has gone towards making the rail project fully functional, not castrated.

In terms of putting rail where it is already heavily served. Yes, but you can't avoid that. It's a chicken and egg situation.
People are always going to want to go into the inner city, and the train you board is going to continue across the city and to the otherside with or without you, because thats the way the network is set up.

I think everyone wants to see more suburban and regional extensions happen, but there are just not enough slots in the CBD to support a new line at the moment. The most recent extensions to Springfield and Kippa Ring that opened in the last 6 years will chew up the remaining capacity, and the lines from the southside are already close to using up the remaining Merivale Bridge capacity (Especially since the Coomera duplication will mean the gold coast line gets unchained!)

The good thing is, once Cross River Rail gets built then the inner city is probably sorted for rail infrastructure for the next 30 years, and we can turn our attention solely to building up the network outside the CBD.

I hope that helps you understand the chicken and egg situation.

The problem with rail isn't a lack of stations within the BCC area.

I would disagree, there is a big lack of rail or busway stations in the North East quadrant of the city between the Ferny Grove line and the Caboolture line.
Bus and train can work together of course, but public transport still wont be attractive if you have to sit on a feeder bus for 8km before you are even at a train station! This is where the trouts road will fill in the gap in the network, along with the northern busway (Which will probably be a BCC metro BRT now right?)

[#Metro]

Don't think the logic is right.

Train in Qld isn't cheap, as bus drivers are not paid anywhere near what train crew are paid  and buses do not have guards.

Also, you have confused vehicle capacity with line capacity. The busway already achieved light rail capacity and beyond. That's why the busway isn't being "upgraded" to LRT.

If you are going to say that LRT + Rail is acceptable to you like BART + muni, you have already lost the argument because the busway already does LRT capacities.

[James]

Don't think the logic is right.

Train in Qld isn't cheap, as bus drivers are not paid anywhere near what train crew are paid  and buses do not have guards.

Also, you have confused vehicle capacity with line capacity. The busway already achieved light rail capacity and beyond. That's why the busway isn't being "upgraded" to LRT.

If you are going to say that LRT + Rail is acceptable to you like BART + muni, you have already lost the argument because the busway already does LRT capacities.

In terms of per passengers carried, train is a more efficient way of carrying passengers than bus. You have 2 people per 1000 passengers, as opposed to 4 drivers per 1000 passengers with a bus in the best circumstance (250+ pax superbus) - it could easily end up double that with a smaller vehicle (125 pax superbus).

No mode of transport will ever rival that of a heavy rail or metro system built properly. This is why we need to be using heavy rail. The only reason bus has taken off is because major shopping centres were built along road and bus (formerly tram) corridors - Chermside, Garden City, Carindale. Then the busways were built.

The LNP has let go of BaT. Most of Rail: Back on Track has let go of BaT. It is time for the few remaining people to let go of it. It was never going to work. The bus network was going to have to fit around it. It was going to have all sorts of problems integrating with the network. The tunnel boring machine required would have been enormous, and there was the very real issue of having to make the largest TBM ever. BaT - a pipe dream. Let it go.

[tazzer9]

Buses in a tunnel mean a whole load of other issues.  Like having to build them bigger because drivers need extra room to drive a vehicle.  Ventilation issues.  Emergency exits.   I can go on.   There is a reason why brisbane is pretty much the only place in the world with a love affair for bus tunnels.

[Gazza]

If you are going to say that LRT + Rail is acceptable to you like BART + muni, you have already lost the argument because the busway already does LRT capacities.

Not really, the LRT would have lower running costs from the outset (For Brisbane its not worth the disruption and cost to achieve that on the busway via retrofit after the fact)

Also, for a BRT or LRT of equivalent capacity, the LRT runs in a more organized manner that doesn't require people to run down the platform.

It's all academic anyway since BaT is Dead  ...IMO heavy rail or metro is the only thing worth putting through a deep bore tunnel.

Anything else is just inefficient....You'd never see the Germans attempting such nonsense 

[#Metro]

Anything else is just inefficient....You'd never see the Germans attempting such nonsense 

EXHIBIT A


Kerb guided trolleybus & tram at Essen's Berliner Platz stn (2)

Never say never!!

[Gazza]

Is that a deep bore tunnel?
Do you not get the main thrust of what I'm saying?

Short stretches of cut and cover tramwayunderground, like the one in Essen (And heck even here in SEQ at GCUH) are one thing.

But no smart city would try to builld a multi billion, multi kilometer deep bore tunnel....and then only use it for buses or light rail.

[#Metro]

Ah, so you were saying that deep bore tram or bus tunnel is okay as long as it carries lots of passengers? That what I thought the principle behind your thrust was?

[Gazza]

The thrust of what I was saying was.

It's all academic anyway since BaT is Dead   ...IMO heavy rail or metro is the only thing worth putting through a deep bore tunnel.

A deep bore bus or tram tunnel is inherently inefficient, because heavy rail ultimately has higher capacity and operating efficiency in the long term.
At least if its heavy rail or metro you are using your super expensive tunnel fully.

[#Metro]

A deep bore bus or tram tunnel is inherently inefficient, because heavy rail ultimately has higher capacity and operating efficiency in the long term.

At least if its heavy rail or metro you are using your super expensive tunnel fully.

Yes, but there might be other considerations.

If buses become automated/self-driving in the long term, the labour cost argument will no longer be true also.


So, I agree with SteelPan that a bus tunnel wasn't something to dismiss at first glance. Public servants should just run the

evaluation just like any other mode of transport. We never saw a rail/rail tunnel option, but if the Brisbane METRO MkI was

anything to go by, it would have been really expensive and very short! Instead of stopping one stop before RBWH, maybe it

would stop at Roma Street. You would perhaps have a 3 stop stubway Gabba - CBD - Roma Street. Not very useful.


Where a train would stop, a bus would just continue through. But hey, it's an option - maybe people want that.


If we were to always take the view that "rail is the best" then we would have a city with no bus service - at all.

How practical is that?

Non-Heavy Rail or Subway and Deep Bore Tunnels

I get that general argument that if you want to go to the trouble and expense of deep boring tunnels, then you'd want to use

it maximally. Though a different choice of mode might be made simply due to circumstance / other considerations.

Is that a deep bore tunnel?
Do you not get the main thrust of what I'm saying?

Short stretches of cut and cover tramway underground, like the one in Essen (And heck even here in SEQ at GCUH) are one thing.

But no smart city would try to builld a multi billion, multi kilometer deep bore tunnel....and then only use it for buses or light rail.

Well, I can show that it already exists. LRT in a deep bore tunnel for many kilometres.

EXHIBIT B

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_Tunnel

The Robertson Tunnel is a twin-bore light rail tunnel through the Tualatin Mountains west of Portland, Oregon, United States, used by the MAX Blue and Red Lines. The tunnel is 2.9 miles (4.7 kilometers) long[1] and consists of twin 21-foot-diameter (6.4 m) tunnels. There is one station within the tunnel at Washington Park, which at 259 feet (79 m) deep is the deepest subway station in the United States and the fifth-deepest in the world.[5] Trains are in the tunnel for about 5 minutes, which includes a stop at the Washington Park station. The tunnel has won several worldwide engineering and environmental awards.[6] It was placed into service September 12, 1998.[7]

The tunnels pass through basalt layers up to 16 million years old. Due to variations in the rock composition, the tunnel curves mildly side to side and up and down to follow the best rock construction conditions.[8] The tunnels vary from 80 to 300 feet (24–91 m) below the surface.

It's light rail, for almost 5 km deep underground. They chose not to use a heavy rail or subway for this.

When the trams exit, they then run on city streets in downtown Portland. They chose LRT because it works for them and it

works with what they had already. Good for them.

[Gazza]

I think the North American cities are an interesting case (Seattle is another other one with a downtown bus/lrt tunnel)

Their solutions have come about because they historically have not had the established suburban rail systems that Australian/European cities have, and tend to be too tightarse / pro car to build new ones.

So they get LRT instead into the suburbs, and underground them downtown where possible.

So, not denying that examples of these don't exist, but I don't think it's a desirable outcome.

Rail to everywhere is not possible as you say, but I think a lot of US cities are at the other extreme....They are too bus reliant, their LRTs aren't that much faster, and those bilevel diesel commuter rail systems tend to be very infrequent.

So they could easily support high frequency suburban rail, but just don't build them 

However, in Australia, despite the grumbles we may have, do manage to at least invest in suburban heavy rail and do some pretty decent new lines....So in this environment, we don't need to waste time trying to put buses in tunnels into the CBD when we can just feederise them onto a decent heavy rail line......Imagine if Sydney or Melbourne tried to strap a bus tunnel onto their new metro 

And Certainly here in Brisbane, the Metro Mk2 is a much better and more logical outcome than BaT ever was.

*****

Just on the North American context, there seems to be a degree of mild retardation in terms of their political discourse and funding model.

There was talk of converting a current  Caltrain diesel line corridor through the south of the city to BART.
http://www.bayrailalliance.org/question/q-why-not-replace-caltrain-with-bart-wont-that-cost-the-same-as-electrifying-caltrain

This was the argument against it:

To replace Caltrain with BART, all the Caltrain infrastructure would have to be removed and rail service would have to be shut down rail service for years during the construction period. Replacing the entire Caltrain line with BART could cost as much as $20 billion and would take from 30 to 50 years to fund and construct. So it's out of the question.

A 70km  above ground train line costs $20 bil and takes 50 years. Righto.
Tell that to Perth.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Cross River Rail to dominate Queensland election

ON A purely timesaving basis, Cross River Rail, as Deputy Premier Jackie Trad likes to say, is a "no brainer".

City-bound commuters coming from the south will save up to 15 minutes and another 8600 seats will be added in peak times.

From the north and west the travel time saved is six minutes and from the east it's 14 minutes with more than 10,000 extra seats at peak travel times across the three routes.

Then there's the economic uplift.

Analysis conducted for the Palaszczuk Government pegged the figure at a mind-boggling $70 billion over 40 years.

Little wonder then that the Government announced in this week's State Budget that it would be "going it alone" on this $5.4 billion project with the aim of completing it by 2024.

However, this "no-brainer" decision becomes significantly more vexed when the question is expanded from what problem CRR will solve to when this project – or an alternative – is necessary to solve it.

The nexus between these two is shaping as a central theme for the battle for Brisbane, and the wider southeast corner, at the looming Queensland election.

It's a multibillion-dollar wedge, or maybe a multibillion-dollar booby trap, which has been inserted in the Budget that the region's residents are about to hear plenty about. While Labor is committed, the LNP are not. And already the Government is ramping up the rhetoric.

"My main ambition has been to secure this project for the people of Queensland and for the Government," Trad tells The Courier-Mail.

"And I think the time is now for the LNP to commit to it and absolutely commit to not cancelling it, like they did in 2013."

Trad admits the public may be sceptical given the length of time the Cross River Rail has been talked about.

"Clearly I acknowledge the cynicism," she says. "This is a project which has been talked about for almost 10 years.

"But we have done more than any other government to secure this project and the reason why our timelines have slipped is because we have been waiting for the Federal Government to come on board with a funding contribution."

But timelines haven't just slipped under the Palaszczuk Government, they've been slipping for a decade and more.

Cross River Rail, ostensibly, solves a crunch point when demand for services exceeds the network's ability to supply.
Through automation, ETCS allows more train traffic to safely traverse the Merivale Bridge, boosting inner-city rail capacity by 20 per cent.

It's all caused because there's only one rail route from the south into the city, via the Merivale Bridge.

A 2008 study first identified a crunch point was coming in 2016 with public transport demand booming, leading to the first iteration of the Cross River Rail.

Yet that date came and went last year with timetable changes helping to avoid the demand/supply imbalance.

The date has been shifted to 2021 and, in the interim, Cross River Rail morphed from an $8.8 billion project to the Bus and Train Tunnel.

The latest edition of it is a 10.2km route linking Dutton Park to Bowen Hills with four new underground stations at Boggo Road, Woolloongabba, Albert St and Roma St.

Yet that 2021 date has now been kicked down the road to 2026 courtesy of the $634 million introduction of the European Train Control System.

Through automation, ETCS allows more train traffic to safely traverse the Merivale Bridge, boosting inner-city rail capacity by 20 per cent.

So why has this decade-long delay been possible for a smidgen of the original cost? Basically because patronage has fallen and flatlined.

Between 2010-11 and 2015-16, rail passenger trips have fallen from 55 million to 51 million. There's been some uptick in patronage in the past two years but nothing significant. Why, then, the rush for Cross River Rail?

This is the question that Infrastructure Australia and the Turnbull Government have been asking over the 12 months since being handed the project's business case.

The Cross River Rail may deliver those significant travel-time savings. However, the problem it seeks to solve isn't travel times but unmeetable demand. And right now that problem doesn't exist.

Rail fail is impacting on Cross River Rail's  very existence. We have made this point several times.

The fare fail from 2011 has also had an impact.  There is no doubt that the high fare cost increases were deliberate to slow patronage.  Combine that with rail fail and the result is inevitable.

Queenslanders do lack a long term vision generally, look at the present mess.
 
If State Labor prevail and the Federal ALP is returned, then it might get done.

If Labor loses the next state election CRR is as dead as a dodo. SEQ will be then consigned to transport failure, a mess of congestion and grid lock.

Well done Queensland Rail fail.  You have really fu%ked SEQ's future.  #FleeQLD

[ozbob]

It is all pointless.  Until they sort out the organisational failures nothing much will occur.

Probably a few more videos and glossy brochures.

The best chance now is Sunshine Coast Line upgrade, ext to Redbank Plains and ATP (ETCS 2 or better) for the suburban network.

BaT was devised by Campbell Newman and the LNP in full knowledge that it never would be built.

Correct Mr Stillwater.

That's it!  They are not serious about Cross River Rail.  It has been a big fantasy ... changes at various political whims. 
It is a very compromised project now.  Do it right or forget it.

I am fairly confident that the LNP will run the line that CRR is not needed.  ATP will do it all.

Don't forget the Couriermail is a LNP supporter so they will blitz on this, pointing to falling patronage a consequence of rail fail, no demand, and in any case ATP will provide the capacity boost needed.

Not much hope is there ...

Jo-Ann Miller made some interesting statements in Parliament yesterday.  She said not very happy with rail fail, amongst other things.  I can guess at the constituent feedback as the buses fail and when you add that to rail fail little wonder she has voiced concern in parliament. 

Estimates could be interesting .. 

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

17th June 2017

2028 - SEQ transport failure claims another Government

Good Morning,

It is 2028.  The Liberal/Democratic Queensland Coalition Queensland Government has just lost the 2028 state election against the strong predictions  from all the  ' teleport mind polls '.

The big issue for Election 2028 was the transport failure in SEQ.  The Opposition used the point that it was the then LNP Government that cancelled the well advanced Cross River Rail project in 2018, and in so doing, highlighted the lack of their longer term vision which has now resulted in chronic overloading of the public transport system and daily gridlock on the road system. It is commuter hell these days.

As the RAIL Off Track spokesperson commented " Transport failure is now synonymous with Queensland and  the Liberal/DQ Coalition. The retro-spectroscope is a wonderful tool.  It was clear in 2018 what was going to occur down the track, so to speak, when Cross River Rail was consigned to history."

Will we ever learn?  Apparently not ..

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

 

[#Metro]

Just on the North American context, there seems to be a degree of mild retardation in terms of their political discourse and funding model.

There was talk of converting a current  Caltrain diesel line corridor through the south of the city to BART.
http://www.bayrailalliance.org/question/q-why-not-replace-caltrain-with-bart-wont-that-cost-the-same-as-electrifying-caltrain

Thanks for posting this. Yes, it does look like crazy talk. BART can't run express - really? Even QR can do that.

***

I think Rail fail is impacting on Cross River Rail's  very existence. We have made this point several times.

Yes, Blue Team are going to scrap the CRR IMO because (a) they have said nothing about it (b) the BaT doesn't work now because the bus

component is now Brisbane METRO. Now unless they are going to resurrect BaT II, I think they will cancel it and put their own idea forward,

Half baked and with cut corners, of course. It might just be signal upgrades, but I suspect that they might do a via South Brisbane option

and just widen the existing Merivale Bridge corridor.


Yes, patronage has fallen on the Queensland Rail network. A terrible outcome that is a reflection of (a) the introduction of BUZ services that

are simply better than rail, (b) a bus model that actively prevents people getting to train stations, (c) politicised fare policies that ratcheted up

fares and put the revenue/patronage in a death spiral.


However, the fact that overall patronage has fallen isn't the right metric to be looking at. You have to ask whether looking at that number is

the right thing to do. It is not - transport networks are designed around peak hour requirements. What is the peak hour looking like?

[ozbob]

Detailed patronage is a state secret.   Less services = less patronage.

After years of struggle we finally got a much improved fare structure - only to have to sabotaged by rail fail.

I am moving on.  Queensland Rail is finished if the LNP get in.  In part not their fault but nothing is improving in reality.  OTR is actually getting worse.  The cut back timetables are shambolic in the way they give no consideration to the timing impacts of missed connections and so forth.

My gut feeling is that the present red mob will try to go out to May 5, 2018 before #qldvotes now.  Hoping that they get a lift from the Commonwealth Games,  and hoping that by then there will be more train crew and people will perhaps forget the rail fail pain. If they do go through to May 2018, there is a chance that real construction for CRR might have commenced too.

NGR is also shaping up as a very big issue now.  The present QR train fleet clearly has some issues when one looks at the constant procession of mechanical issues ...

If nothing else, interesting times ... 

[HappyTrainGuy]

The whole issue with the railways is a political issue. And it has been one since trams were running in Brisbane. It got ugly and turned into trains vs buses. The council has maintained that mentality. Translink was supposed to solve this issue but it didn't. Additional services aren't simple as what they used to be. Remember translink took 30 days to approve swapping 2 trains around with a lot of people blaming QR for doing nothing when in reality they had sorted out job cards and rollingstock positioning a couple days after the issue arouse. The state has been using the trains as a political tool with BCC. And it became very toxic with the management when Anna Bligh split the group and new staff came in back in 2007.

Even for metro you can still read the BS that is brisbane buses are better than trains. People don;t like trains. People don't like to interchange between buses and trains but they are happy to interchange between bus and a metro bus.

[#Metro]

Detailed patronage is a state secret.

Yes, absolutely terrible and another reason why QLD should get an upper house. It is a free-for all at the moment.

[BrizCommuter]

Yes, patronage has fallen on the Queensland Rail network. A terrible outcome that is a reflection of (a) the introduction of BUZ services that

are simply better than rail, (b) a bus model that actively prevents people getting to train stations, (c) politicised fare policies that ratcheted up

fares and put the revenue/patronage in a death spiral.

You forgot:
- Poor frequencies - in particular pm peak and off-peak - due to chronic lack of trains/drivers.
- Overcrowded trains - in particular 3-car services - due to chronic lack of trains.
- Services axed by Rail Fail - due to lack of drivers post MBRL.

Buses are merely a blip on the non-available rail patronage figures.

[techblitz]

@htg
give it a rest with the educational speeches on why QR isn't to blame......were all getting a bit sick of QR and its plethora of issues......and for the record.....if metro team/bcc want to sprout that people prefer bus-bus over bus-rail then given the current state of queensland rail.....they are perfectly entitled to spruik up their new metro.....

[#Metro]

You forgot:
- Poor frequencies - in particular pm peak and off-peak - due to chronic lack of trains/drivers.
- Overcrowded trains - in particular 3-car services - due to chronic lack of trains.
- Services axed by Rail Fail - due to lack of drivers post MBRL.

Buses are merely a blip on the non-available rail patronage figures.

I hear you but there were too many sins to list! Maybe your blog can list all the sins point by point - you know the top 50 sins...

Sorry to upset the boat but I think it is time for a new train operator.

[HappyTrainGuy]

@htg
give it a rest with the educational speeches on why QR isn't to blame......were all getting a bit sick of QR and its plethora of issues......and for the record.....if metro team/bcc want to sprout that people prefer bus-bus over bus-rail then given the current state of queensland rail.....they are perfectly entitled to spruik up their new metro.....

If anything give it a rest with the ........ ........ ....... ....... .......

I'm not saying they aren't to blame. I'm just saying how PT has been used as a political tool time and time again for someones short term goal and how now public transport across seq is suffering brutally up front and right in the publics face while everyone is doing the most absolute little and PR spin to address the real issue.

BCC has been very anti rail for decades. Now that something major is blowing up with Queensland Rail they are using that as a political tool to their advantage to heavily promote and heavily push their bus only agenda for Brisbane. Its amusing that Quirk came out so hard pushing Metro that it was as if he had no consultation about anything at all related to the project and was making it up as he went along.

We've all seen it with CRR version 1 over a decade ago when the BCC refused to have anything at all to do with it. Then it was we will fund some but only if we can have buses using it hence the bat tunnel was formed. Then came the network review to utilise the existing rail/bus and bus/bus interchanges but BT at the request of BCC said no because people don't like interchanges and we will have a look at doing it ourselves. BAT MkII came out before that got sh%t canned. Then came the light rail proposal/metro proposal/free friday travel on BCC buses proposal with metro ultimately coming out on top. Which is now going to force an interchange which is opposite to what they said a few years ago. Even on promotional material now they keep going on about how rail-bus interchanges are some of the least used services. And you look at the rail-bus interchanges and you see why they are the least used services like the 336/337 running every 2 hours between morning and arvo peak, 326/327 going past the station the same time both trains are scheduled to arrive, the first 335 past carseldine railway station to connect to trains that run more frequent than the buz standard is something like 9.10am, the 326/327 peak hour craziness, 328/341 peak hour only direction or the 338/357/339 mess between Albany Creek-Brendale with the 338 taking random detours to Bald Hills if its a school day with the last service leaving strathpine at 5.17pm - just to name a few.

Translink was established to eliminate the mess that PT had become in SEQ. SEQ had the best PT ticketing system in Australia and look how it wasn't maximised for its full potential. It had some benefits for people using ferries, trains and buses but internally all it did was create additional red tape due to how it was set up as operators had to get approval for any service changes. Communication also got out of whack as Translink was now the party responsible for handling all communication. If you have a complaint talk to translink. If there is a delay talk to translink. Got a question talk to translink. If there is a delay Translink mentions it. It finally had a good internal structure and things were changing. There were new services. Bus/train/light rail had timetabling mods to work with each other. But that was short lived when the minister for transport stepped in and let BCC look after it followed up with cuts and was merged into a division of TMR. Operators aren't allowed to release detailed info without Translink allowing. Lots of secrets about projects such as MBRL, Petrie-Lawnton, CRR, NGR along with patronage across all modes and operators.

Queensland Rail was cursing along with network mods here and there then there were project cuts (some were public and others not) and reorganisation which is what kicked off the major start of the toxic environment. There were more cuts which didn't help and then it was announced that its structure was once again changing. 500+ full time jobs had to go. Apprentices went once their contract was up. Staff that you saw cleaning the trains we the first to go/redeployed. There were cuts left right and center (not just the drivers). Lots of the old/experienced guys took the redundancy pay. It was publicly stated that no frontline jobs would be cut but lots of frontline staff left under the VR. From memory about 1500 total part/full time/apprentice/contractor jobs went. Positions were outsourced to TMR. Contractors were brought in for certain jobs where previously QR staff did the job. Projects like the Beerburrum-Landsborough duplication and realignment were only going to happen if other assets and state assets were privitised or sold off. Employees really hated what could happen if Newman got in again as the threat of privitisation and further additional cuts was very very high. And now you have the current mess.

You put all that together and you can see why public transport. Be it bus or train. Its really stuffed up. There's lots of areas that have poor connections. Buses don't feed into train stations. Buses don't feed into interchanges. We have 26 buses running between Chermside-RBWH at 10-11pm yet you can count all the routes north of chermside that have a bus service better than 59 minutes during the day. Buses that don't connect 2 major areas (Bracken Ridge-Bald Hills/Strathpine has the 327 running out of service. Strathpine-Albany Creek has no services after 5.20pm. Carseldine-Fitzgibbon only has a single peak hour direction only bus that goes to Taigum. Over complicated routes and timetables. The whole no sunday services with buses every 2 hours or not at all). Trains lack the frequency due to limited patronage from the lack of bus services. Trains rely on people driving there due to the poor bus network to access the station. To increase the patronage like in 2012 you add more stops to the timetable making services slower. Outsourced railway projects are now hampering the effective running of the railways. The sheer amount of the lack of proper business cases for CRR. The lack of redesigning Brisbanes bus network to remove over duplication. The lack of addressing infrastructure constraints like the inner city, Cultural Center Bus Station, Beerburrum-Landsborough duplication etc. Political promises are pushing the limits of the existing network and services. BCC spending 1/3 of their budget on improving roads to ease congestion while not addressing missing bus lanes, over duplication and inefficiency of their designed bus network with some routes running 30 mins longer that scheduled or empty through the city and active transport to/from the city/bus interchanges/railway interchanges.

People might say privitising the operators would fix the issue but that's pointless if TMR is still running the show. They'd just do the same job that QR does now but run it to bottom dollar to make the most profit for the shareholders (many keep saying Metro in Melbourne is the golden goose but there are many many problems with them from mtce blow outs, poor track condition, running and contract loop holes). Some might say that "but QR could put in a tender". There have been many tenders where QR wasn't allowed to take part in.

It's just a vicious cycle that goes around and around and anyone that uses public transport is suffering. In my opinion Queensland Rail, Brisbane City Council and the State Government are all to blame for this mess that we currently find ourselves in which unfortunately has no short term end in sight.

[#Metro]

People might say privitising the operators would fix the issue but that's pointless if TMR is still running the show. They'd just do the same job that QR does now but run it to bottom dollar to make the most profit for the shareholders (many keep saying Metro in Melbourne is the golden goose but there are many many problems with them from mtce blow outs, poor track condition, running and contract loop holes). Some might say that "but QR could put in a tender". There have been many tenders where QR wasn't allowed to take part in.

The thing one has to understand about HTG's position and similar positions that I have heard is that the public operation takes

precedence over absolutely everything. In this ideological framework, there are no alternatives and there is no space for any

private operators under any circumstances. The only possible 'allowed' solution are continued extension of the Queensland Rail

contract irrespective of whatever happens with the performance metrics (cost recovery, reliability, services, whatever).


There actually is no bottom limit to how low service standards can fall with this view.


You have to note also that HTG isn't advancing any benefits of continued public operation or continued indefinite extension of a

clearly failing public operator. No, quite the opposite, scare stories are waved around about Melbourne (who incidentally have an

excellent frequent railway) without really much linking cause and effect or looking for solutions. And of course there are no

focus on exploring solutions to potential problems - like how one could ensure that maintainence is done to a high standard - no

of course not. Because all paths must lead to the continuation of the current public operator, at any and all costs.


This is not how you run a railway, or indeed anything.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> LNP calls out Qld govt over rail numbers

Queensland's Liberal National Party has accused the Palaszczuk government of over-estimating the need for its flagship Cross River Rail project.

Deputy Premier Jackie Trad says the $5.4 billion project is a "no brainer" to reduce congestion at the Merivale Bridge, which is currently Brisbane's only river rail crossing.

The government on Tuesday announced it would go ahead and fund the project on its own, rather than wait a couple of years to seek money from the Turnbull government's $10 billion National Rail Program.

But Deputy Opposition Leader Deb Frecklington said the government own rail figures show there is no need to rush the development because passenger numbers are dropping.

Since 2010/11 rail patronage on the southeast Queensland network has dropped from 55 million people to 51.1 million people, according to the Department of Transport and Main Roads.

That's despite Labor's as yet unreleased business case for the project reportedly showing six per cent annual growth in passenger numbers, Ms Frecklington said.

"Labor's claimed six per cent year-on-year growth can't be believed," she said.

"Labor knows its numbers are dodgy. The capacity constraint on the Merivale Bridge won't occur until 2026 at the earliest, so we have the time to get this right."

[#Metro]

^ this is such a bad outcome. I can't really say more.

[SteelPan]

 

elevated/underground "highER speed" corridor needed ASAP, between the soon to be built sexy new underground stations at inner Southside and Beenleigh......

Linking WORLD CLASS....World City....."Brissy" and the GC..........

The first phase in a TransApex of Interurban rail to network the key economic drivers of the SEQ region

1) Brissy/Beenleigh/GC
2) Rosewood/Toowoomba [the impact of this one alone in turbo charging SEQ cannot be overstated]
3) Brissy/Sunshine Coast (I think some version of this one may actually be on some mythical planning desk...somewhere.....)

All up and running within the next 12yrs.......

I just know at that POWERHOUSE of initiative....1 William St...their burning the midnight oil on it......   

[ozbob]

^ this is such a bad outcome. I can't really say more.

Indeed. Very costly for Queensland's future these hopeless Governments. It will never be sorted until we get PTQ.

Looking forward to see some real progress down south.  This time next week I will accessing 10 minute off peak services ..   

[HappyTrainGuy]

People might say privitising the operators would fix the issue but that's pointless if TMR is still running the show. They'd just do the same job that QR does now but run it to bottom dollar to make the most profit for the shareholders (many keep saying Metro in Melbourne is the golden goose but there are many many problems with them from mtce blow outs, poor track condition, running and contract loop holes). Some might say that "but QR could put in a tender". There have been many tenders where QR wasn't allowed to take part in.

The thing one has to understand about HTG's position and similar positions that I have heard is that the public operation takes

precedence over absolutely everything. In this ideological framework, there are no alternatives and there is no space for any

private operators under any circumstances. The only possible 'allowed' solution are continued extension of the Queensland Rail

contract irrespective of whatever happens with the performance metrics (cost recovery, reliability, services, whatever).


There actually is no bottom limit to how low service standards can fall with this view.


You have to note also that HTG isn't advancing any benefits of continued public operation or continued indefinite extension of a

clearly failing public operator. No, quite the opposite, scare stories are waved around about Melbourne (who incidentally have an

excellent frequent railway) without really much linking cause and effect or looking for solutions. And of course there are no

focus on exploring solutions to potential problems - like how one could ensure that maintainence is done to a high standard - no

of course not. Because all paths must lead to the continuation of the current public operator, at any and all costs.


This is not how you run a railway, or indeed anything.

My personal view is that railway assets should never be privatised. All you have to do is look at how Aurizon has performed since the split. Cutting contracts that don't make anything for shareholders. More freight on the roads. Locals are lobbying for Queensland Rail to resume freight services. Pretty sure Queensland Rail have also resumed some cattletrain contracts and are looking at resuming some freight operations. Towns going under because the railway staff, industries and their staff move away. But their stocks keep going up and the shareholder gets more.

You look in at Metro and see that everything is all fine and dandy. You like the frequency. Since its privatised its good for others. But that's just you looking in. You don't know anything about how the railways actually work. Connex was pretty crap but they had their own issues. The last operator drove it into the ground. Connex took over with a lack of drivers and staff from the previous owner and thus copped flack. They built up their OTP levels. Then came the issues with the Siemens trains. Works on the inner city core and a few other projects contributed to constant delays. Patronage growth continued as the petrol price skyrocketed which resulted in overcrowding on a network already hampered with the existing issues and lower OTP. Maintenance took a hit so stations and trains started to look old, worn out and grubby. Shareholders took a hit due to missing OTP targets. The government announced an increase in funding and used PT as a political campaign which is when Metro swooped in. Now it seems every year PT is being heavily invested in. They worked their social media side hard to present a good image (compared to the one Connex left behind). Had changes to how OTP was determined. Utilised loopholes to have a higher OTP even if it meant randomly expressing multiple trains past hundreds of waiting commuters. I'll give them credit for hiring more staff but they still try to pull fast ones with EA - but who doesn't. Its easier dealing with EA with Metro as they are the ones that face penalties so if you stuff around the workers their shareholders take the brunt. But in saying that they've had their annual budget increased by something like 200% to something around 1.1-1.3 billion (which is more than it costs Queensland Rail for its state operations). Many of the issues due to lack of mtce has only been resolved due to the state government stepping in with new mtce facilities, track infrastructure upgrades and rollingstock phase out (similar to our NGR project). But this isn't the thread for it.

[#Metro]

Replies in this thread
https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=12563.msg194247#msg194247

[BrizCommuter]

LNP - You don't think CRR is needed?
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2017/06/lnp-you-dont-think-crr-is-needed.html

[ozbob]

LNP - You don't think CRR is needed?
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2017/06/lnp-you-dont-think-crr-is-needed.html

Thanks!   

Sent to all outlets too.

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/876196986478747648

[Derwan]

The LNP has now shown their hand.

Although they agree with the CRR concept (as indicated in their Brisbane Live release), if elected, they would delay any plans to build it.