Cross River Rail Project

[ozbob]

Twitter

Shane Doherty ‏@ShaneDoherty9 8 minutes ago Brisbane, Queensland

@jackietrad advocates for 2nd Brisbane river rail crossing (part of her charter letter to lobby the Feds for it) #9News #qldpol

[v6hilux]

I can sort of see the facts in the text - not.

[#Metro]

Cross River Rail is not happening. They don't have the funds OR a construction plan.
Even if announced tomorrow, it would still be a long way off. The three-year election cycle imposes considerable risk as a new incoming administration could reset the project again...

[Jonno]

I have outlined a do-minimum project that meets the essentials. All sides are to blame really, the current government could fund the project by selling something and introducing land tax as a 'States Rate' and/or borrowings at what are now record low interest rates. Perth self-funded its own New Metro Rail project in 2007 which doubled the size of the rail network and included tunneling under the CBD.

At the very minimum, the Queensland Government could make minor changes to permit superbus operation, buy superbuses and restructure the bus network. To date, it has failed to do even this.

They could redirect road funding as well.  Transit funding is not an issue of funds but priorities!!!

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament Hansard

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/hansard/2015/2015_05_20_DAILY.pdf

Questions without notice 20th May 2015

Mr RUSSO: My question is to the Deputy Premier. Will the Deputy Premier please update the House on the importance of a second river rail crossing for South-East Queensland rail services?

Ms TRAD: I thank the honourable member for the question. This is an issue that he has raised with me. The issue around the rail capacity crisis confronting the south-east corner weighs heavily on this government's mind. In fact, as we have been talking about charter letters this morning, I will advise the House that part of my responsibility, as articulated by the Premier, is that as Minister for Transport I will revitalise and reform rail services, including lobbying the federal government for funding to help deliver an inner-city rail solution for Brisbane. That inner-city rail solution is a second river crossing in Brisbane.

This project was first started by the former Beattie Labor government. It was started because the south-east corner confronts a population growth of some 1.5 million people in the next 15 years. Many of those people will live outside the Brisbane local government area, but many of them will actually work inside the Brisbane CBD. To get those people in and out of the city, we need to have an additional river crossing for heavy rail in Brisbane.

The project came to fruition, was forwarded to Infrastructure Australia and was prioritised as the No. 1 shovel-ready infrastructure project in Australia. What happened when the Newman government came to power? First of all, it set up an independent review panel to have a look at cross river rail and its own hand-picked independent review panel said that there is no other option except cross river rail. So they were dragged kicking and screaming to support it. Then, after walking away from a deal with the federal Labor government to fund the project—

Opposition members interjected.

Mr SPEAKER: Order, members! Pause the clock. I call the Deputy Premier

Ms TRAD: After walking away from a deal with the federal government to fund cross river rail, they came up with the BaT Tunnel, which has been resoundingly rejected by public transport experts because it is all style, no substance. I was interested to hear that the former transport minister was on the radio last week—

Mr Nicholls interjected.

Ms TRAD: He does not want me to say it—saying that they had a deal for the BaT Tunnel.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! Pause the clock. Deputy Premier!

Ms TRAD: They had a funding deal for the BaT Tunnel.

Mr SPEAKER: Deputy Premier! Member for Chatsworth, your interjections are not being taken. I call the Deputy Premier.

Ms TRAD: In fact, the former transport minister, the member for Indooroopilly said, 'Well, Steve'—this is Steve Austin—'we had a deal before the last election to build our BaT Tunnel.' This was news to my department which said, 'I don't think we did because we had no final alignment, we had not acquired any of the properties, there were no final approvals in place, no funding allocated to this project, no contracts to let for the construction work.' No deal!

[ozbob]

Guess we can look forward to Connecting SEQ 2051 or is it 2061 glossy brochure with 3D animations?

They can use this as a cover ....

[Stillwater]

Ms Trad fulfils the conditions of her charter document by writing a letter to the federal Minister, Mr Truss, effectively saying: "Please, can we have some of your money to build CRR."  Back will come the reply: "No."
Charter met 100 per cent.  How does that get us anywhere?

State and feds jointly fund the major road projects around Queensland, some 50-50, some 20-80, with the Commonwealth picking up the 80 per cent.  Directing roads money to CRR would involve only the state component of the funding for these road projects going to CRR.  In the absence of state money for these road projects, the projects won't go ahead.  The Commonwealth would withdraw its 50 per cent, or 80 per cent and redirect that money to other states.  (The feds have no obligation to spend money in Queensland, they are the Australia-wide government and there are plenty of other projects in other states where the states have sold their assets and are ready to partner with the Commonwealth and do deals to jointly fund essential infrastructure.)

The state's other alternatives are to cut costs (sack public servants - I don't think so), raise taxes (allow the LNP to say Labor is the 'big taxing' party), borrow money (possible, but add to state debt - allowing LNP to say Labor is creating a 'big black hole' of fiscal irresponsibility).

A congestion tax and/or a land tax impost on SEQ properties (collected through council rates) would fund CRR.  Project benefits SEQ, SEQ pays for it -- an argument that plays out in the bush.

It boils down to political courage.  But where is that these days?

Not charging a congestion tax or a land tax does not mean we dodge a bullet.  People and industry will pay.  Congestion is a cost and congestion will hit hard in Brisbane than any other Australian city, the research shows.  If people oppose the congestion tax or the land tax, they will pay by being stuck in traffic for hours on end, delivery of goods etc will be less efficient and add to business costs.

Let's not forget that the feds have an out ... they will say simply that they ARE investing in rail in Queensland ... in the inland rail project.

[#Metro]

A precedent exists - Perth self-funded New Metro Rail in 2007. Federal funding is a problem because Sydney and Melbourne also have very expensive rail capacity increasing projects.

Economic lifecycle: 40 years
Population of Queensland: 5 million
Amount to raise: 10 Billion

10 billion divided by 5 million divided by 40 years = $50 per person, per year.

You have to remember that you do not have to sell an asset to unlock its inherent cash value (equity). You can borrow against the value of the asset that you hold. One does not need to sell their house to borrow against it.

At record-low interest rates, this is a credible alternative financing pathway. A land tax in the form of 'States Rates' can also be implemented.

If the Queensland Government does not want to sell assets, that's its choice. Other financing options are available. The strategy of previous red team administrations has been to dissipate the cost by 'waiting out' and pushing out the timeframes into the future by building the infrastructure in stages. I think this is the reason why the busway was chosen over equivalent rail options - because it could be built in stages, the same with GCLRT where only pieces have been built over time.

Unfortunately, with Cross River Rail this is not an option. A heavy railway line needs to be complete before it is functional. Ms Trad is not quite right with the suggestion that it started under Beattie- the first mention of a cross river crossing is in the Wilbur Smith Report, 1970.

[James]

If the Queensland Government does not want to sell assets, that's its choice. Other financing options are available. The strategy of previous red team administrations has been to dissipate the cost by 'waiting out' and pushing out the timeframes into the future by building the infrastructure in stages. I think this is the reason why the busway was chosen over equivalent rail options - because it could be built in stages, the same with GCLRT where only pieces have been built over time.

Unfortunately, with Cross River Rail this is not an option. A heavy railway line needs to be complete before it is functional. Ms Trad is not quite right with the suggestion that it started under Beattie- the first mention of a cross river crossing is in the Wilbur Smith Report, 1970.

Frustratingly, the 'other finance options' are subject to political attack, and given the fragile nature of the government, I doubt Palaszczuk is willing to test the waters that much. Remember, she was elected on a platform of nothing, and in terms of political capital, Palaszczuk gains more by 'doing nothing' and p%ssing off a few transport lobbyists compared to 'doing something and borrowing money/increasing taxes' and opening her up to large LNP-led attacks.

The fact that Beattie was the first one to raise this (now three premiers and almost 10 years ago) is an indictment on the state that it takes this long for us to get absolutely nowhere. And this is how things will play out over the next 3 years...

Ms Trad fulfils the conditions of her charter document by writing a letter to the federal Minister, Mr Truss, effectively saying: "Please, can we have some of your money to build CRR."  Back will come the reply: "No."
Charter met 100 per cent.

Rinse and repeat every couple of months. And so another three years of inaction on a Cross River transit solution. Wheeeeee.....

[#Metro]

It is true that other finance options are open to political attack, they all are. However, real-world observation suggests that an asset sale or lease is a non-starter. Red team tried that and were thrown out of office, blue team tried that and were also thrown out office. If you run it a third time, I think you get the same result.

Another path needs to be chosen. The other options are ugly as well, but less ugly.

$50/person/year over 40 years is doable I think.

[v6hilux]

I think this is the reason why the busway was chosen over equivalent rail options - because it could be built in stages, the same with GCLRT where only pieces have been built over time.

Unfortunately, with Cross River Rail this is not an option. A heavy railway line needs to be complete before it is functional.

Lets look at the big picture LD T. The one that will provide a rail option to get cars off a major road trunk route, Beaudesert Rd AND divert all intra and interstate freight (coal, containers) off a major passenger rail route, being the the western line between Port of Brisbane and Toowoomba.

I hope the gruberment can see the "shovel ready" CRR is a huge factor (it's the key piece required) in what I say and get on with it soon. A lot of us cannot see the massive implications of creating a new rail option to the south west and freeing-up the current passenger rail network, but I do.

[Stillwater]

It is an unfortunate reality that governments don't govern these days.  They 'play politics', which is not the same as governing.  We are the poorer for it.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Queensland's infrastructure health check - where we stand

Southeast Queensland could finance the cost of a new cross-river rail line for Brisbane, the next stage of the Gold Coast light rail and a second rail line to the Sunshine Coast from the $7.3 billion increase in congestion costs expected over the next 15 years, according to major study.

If not, the Brisbane and Ipswich rail lines will reach "crush capacity" within 15 years and highways to the Gold Coast will be choked.

The Pacific Motorway – closest to Brisbane - between Beenleigh and Helensvale - is at now 98 per cent of its capacity during morning and afternoon peak periods, Infrastructure Australia says.

Infrastructure Australia's 15-year Australian Infrastructure Audit shows the cost of traffic congestion and delays will increase $7.3 billion or five-fold – from $1.91 billion (2011) to $9.2 billion (2031) in the Brisbane-Gold Coast-Sunshine Coast urban footprint over the next 15 years.

In broad terms, a new cross-city rail line for Brisbane will cost around $5 billion, the next stage of the Gold Coast Light Rail around $1 billion, with improvements to the Sunshine Coast rail around $532 million.

Infrastructure Australia's 15-year-plan is the first major attempt by an organisation to prioritise the challenges on each state's road, rail, ports and electricity infrastructure as Australia's population increases ...

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Qld parties are united in demand for rail funding from Abbott

Queensland has demanded the Abbott Government come to the table on cross-river rail, despite the Prime Minister's steadfast commitment against funding rail projects.

And in what is becoming a rarity in the 55th Parliament, the minority Labor Government has bi-partisan support for its infrastructure funding bid.

Deputy Premier Jackie Trad said a second river crossing for Brisbane was a priority project, which needed some funding love from the Coalition ...

[BrizCommuter]

A timely post from BrizCommuter:
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2015/05/what-is-tony-abbotts-problem-with-trains.html

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

24th May 2015

Cross River Rail - history repeating?

Good Morning,

You may or may not be aware that Cross River Rail is not a new concept.  An equivalent to Cross River Rail was proposed by Wilbur Smith and Associates in 1970.

Discussion thread on our forum > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3304.0

'South East Queensland – Brisbane Region Public Transport Study' 1970 from section 6 'The recommended plan" pages 101- 124 by Wilbur Smith and Associates, CT, USA







If you stop and reflect on the above for a minute.  What a transformed mobilised real new world city Brisbane could have been hey?

In the next day or so we will be putting forward suggestions for funding Cross River Rail.  It is 45 years over due. 

Real leadership is needed from Queensland.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

News on 4BC have been running an item from Ms Trad highlighting the fact that the Federal Government will not fund public transport and urban rail unless there is asset sales.  A position opposed by both the ALP and LNP.

[Stillwater]

^^We know that, but WHAT IS MS TRAD'S COUNTER POSITION?  How is she going to fund public transport infrastructure that will avoid the impending 'capacity crush' in circumstances where the state doesn't want to sell down assets and the federal government won't fund urban rail?

In effect, what she is saying is that 'it's all too hard' and Queensland's public transport woes are the responsibility of the federal government.  That's bunkum and a big fail in my opinion.

Queensland is a sovereign state and the state has direct responsibility for transport, especially rail where the states sought to protect their systems from federal takeover in the Constitution.

The Premier, through Ms Trad's Charter Letter, has given her minister a big out.  All Ms Trad has to do is write to the feds asking for money and get a negative response back and she meets the conditions of her Charter Letter.  It is an excuse for failure.

This state government is planning to fail on public transport, or whimp out.

Rather than highlighting what the feds WON'T do for public transport in Queensland, Ms Trad should apply her mind to what she and the Queensland Labor Government WILL DO for public transport in Queensland.

'The feds won't give us the money to do it' is the equivalent of the kid saying the dog ate his homework.

[v6hilux]

Sydney is getting a second Harbour Rail Crossing - how good is that!

What a shame Bradfield is not in charge of things in Brisbane!

[#Metro]

An asset has a value. If the asset is sold it releases the embodied funds (which is equal to the sum of the future income stream expressed in today's dollars). If an asset is not sold, then the value is kept and can be borrowed against to release an equal amount of funds.

Everybody knows this in their private capacity. You can sell your house, or you can go to the bank and take a mortgage against the value of the house.

Hence there can be funds in both cases, whether or not a sale has occurred.


The Government of Queensland is responsible for Queensland under the Constitution Act 1867. The Queensland Government predates
the existence of the Australian Government.

1 Legislative Assembly
There shall be within the said Colony of Queensland a
Legislative Assembly.

2 Legislative Assembly constituted
Within the said Colony of Queensland Her Majesty shall have
power by and with the advice and consent of the said
Assembly to make laws for the peace welfare and good
government of the colony in all cases whatsoever.

https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/C/ConstA1867.pdf

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

25th May 2015

Greetings,

Could the Queensland Government self-fund Cross River Rail?

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers calls on the Queensland Treasurer, The Honourable Curtis Pitt MP, to direct the new Queensland Productivity Commission to investigate self-funding of major new transport projects in Queensland.

After seven years of glossy brochures and fancy animations on Cross River Rail and the BaT tunnel, what have we got? Nothing other than plans it seems. BaT was to be self funded essentially.

Western Australia set a precedent when the WA Government self-funded the doubling of Perth's metropolitan rail network in the 2007 NewMetroRail project. It was the largest public transport project the WA Government had ever undertaken. We think the Queensland Government now must seriously look at doing the same. Two broad options to self-fund the much needed Cross River Rail project exist - borrowing against public assets withheld from sale, and broadening the tax base through changes in Land Tax (State Rates).

Borrowing

Assets sales are not the only way to raise funds. Borrowing against an asset that has been withheld from sale will also release funds. To use an analogy, instead of selling the farm, one can borrow against the farm and keep it. Government borrowing costs are at record lows. This also means the business cases for large infrastructure projects are more favourable. Without Cross River Rail, workers won't be able to get to work in Brisbane and if that happens, the Queensland economy will be stuffed.

State Rates (Land Tax)

Look, nobody likes taxes, but if you want public works, we need to have a conversation about how that will be paid for. Broadening the land tax base has many advantages over other measures, and could be administered similar to Council rates. Land taxes cannot be passed on to renters (as rents are set by the rental market), a taxed land parcel cannot be withdrawn from the land supply and cannot be hidden in overseas tax havens, the rates are very low (1-2%), people on low incomes generally do not own land, and it encourages new development on empty or dilapidated land parcels. This means that you get a denser city, and that brings more shops, more diversity and more public transport fare revenue.

A lot of private properties will see their values go up purely due to population growth, migration from other Australian states, and through public investments such as new schools, new hospitals, or new major transport infrastructure. This happens even if landowners do nothing. This unearned value, particularly from infrastructure works such as Cross River Rail or Gold Coast Light Rail could be recaptured through land taxation. That's fair because the people benefiting the most from public works are paying for the privilege.

Land tax does not discourage development because taxation is based on the unimproved value of land (i.e without buildings). Queensland already has land tax, all we are asking is the commission look at broadening it. For example, the current 'tax-free' band for individuals holding properties that are not their home residence ($0–$599,999) and companies, trustees and absentees ($0–$349,999) could be removed. Further broadening should also be considered along with removing other State taxes, duties, fees and charges. Different ways to spread the cost over the year, such as adding State Rates to existing council rates notices should be investigated.

We believe the amount that needs to be recovered through such 'State Rates' to fund Cross River Rail would be exceedingly small (see rough calculation below).

Ultimately, it is the Queensland Government who is responsible for Queensland. There is only so long an essential state-building project can be delayed, and the Western Australian precedent demonstrates that self-funding is a real option.

Governments are elected to act. History has shown that Queensland Governments that fail to act are quickly removed from office.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

Land value tax
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax

10-year treasury bond rates, Queensland
http://www.vincents.com.au/tools-resources/tables-litigation/qld/10-year-treasury-bond-rates-queensland

WA Government State Budget 2006-2007
http://www.ourstatebudget.wa.gov.au/uploadedFiles/State_Budget/Budget_2006_-_2007/Budget_Overview_2.pdf
'Using the 2005-06 surplus to repay all New MetroRail project debt, meaning Western Australians will be the proud owners of Australia's newest and best urban rail network – paid for in full.' (page 4)
'As mentioned, the Government has committed $1.3 billion of the record surplus expected for 2005-06 to repay all existing borrowings and to fund remaining works for the New MetroRail project, leaving the project completely debt-free.' (page 6)

Queensland demands rail funding for second river crossing
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/queensland-demands-rail-funding-for-second-river-crossing-20150522-gh7hvp.html

Queensland demands rail funding for second river crossing
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/queensland-demands-rail-funding-for-second-river-crossing-20150522-gh7hvp.html

Rough Calculation

10 billion dollars (project cost) divided by 5 million people (rounded population of Queensland) divided by 40 years (infrastructure economic life) = $50 per person, per year.

New Metro Rail (WA)

Sent to all outlets:

24th May 2015

Cross River Rail - history repeating?

Good Morning,

You may or may not be aware that Cross River Rail is not a new concept.  An equivalent to Cross River Rail was proposed by Wilbur Smith and Associates in 1970.

Discussion thread on our forum > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3304.0

'South East Queensland – Brisbane Region Public Transport Study' 1970 from section 6 'The recommended plan" pages 101- 124 by Wilbur Smith and Associates, CT, USA







If you stop and reflect on the above for a minute.  What a transformed mobilised real new world city Brisbane could have been hey?

In the next day or so we will be putting forward suggestions for funding Cross River Rail.  It is 45 years over due. 

Real leadership is needed from Queensland.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[Stillwater]

Almost with glee, Curtis Pitt emphasised that Queensland dipped into recession at the end of the LNP reign (technically, two quarters of negative economic growth).  Mining is no longer booming.  Skills and equipment used in that industry are transferable to construction of public infrastructure where there is a strong business case.  State Government investment in public infrastructure makes good economic sense and will help spur economic growth.

At this stage, the ball lies not Ms Trad, who is moribund with inaction, but Mr Pitt.  RailBOT's call for the Queensland Productivity Commission to investigate sources of funding is on the money.  We know from the recent Infrastructure Australia audit that congestion due to poor public transport will cost Brisbane billions every year.  This should be factored into any Queensland Productivity Commission investigation.

We now have consistency in advice to government ... doing nothing is not an option.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Senior LNP figures say BaT Tunnel was former premier Campbell Newman's impossible dream

BRISBANE'S bold BaT Tunnel was never going to be built, former senior figures in the Newman government claim.

The two-level tunnel to carry both trains and buses under the city's river was a centrepiece of the previous LNP government's infrastructure plans, to be partly funded by the controversial asset-leasing program and the rest from a public-private partnership.

But even if the LNP had won January's state election, the much vaunted $5 billion BaT project was doomed and would have been dumped during its second term in power, according to sources in the previous administration.

"It couldn't be done,'' one source said.

The proposed BaT tunnel was to carry both trains and buses under the Brisbane River.

Former premier Campbell Newman was a strong backer of the 5.4km project between Dutton Park and Victoria Park.

"The leader of the time had his heart set on it," a source said.

"They were trying to engineer it down to a preset figure, but it never got there.''

The proposal would certainly have been scrapped, citing "technical difficulties", he said ...

We knew that ...   Legacy Way - Newman  bus bull now this hey? 

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

29th May 2015

SEQ: Will the BaT fly? No, thank goodness ...

Good Morning,

We have previously exposed the Legacy Way bus bull (see > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7798.msg156299#msg156299 )

Now the Couriermail has highlighted the Bus and Train (BaT) tunnel charade.

Couriermail --> Senior LNP figures say BaT Tunnel was former premier Campbell Newman's impossible dream

All is not well with public transport planning or management is it in Queensland?  We have constantly raised the concerns, finally there is some acknowledgement of the failure.

It is time to sort the mess.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

9th May 2015

Re: SEQ: Will the BaT fly? No, thank goodness ...

Good Morning,

Ok where to from here?

1. A bus tunnel is not needed.  Victoria Bridge can be converted to bus / pedestrians / bicycles only.  Fix up the mess that is the South East Busway portal, and sort out the Cultural Centre Bus Station.

2. Reduce the number of empty / near empty buses running into and out of the CBD and causing bus jam at peaks through implementation of bus network reform.  Buses can then be redeployed to provide a better public transport service in the suburbs. This was attempted by TransLink in 2013 but a distinct lack of cooperation by BCC and weak state political leadership consigned that sensible move to yesterday's political scrap heap.

3. As far as busway extensions go - dream time.  Augmentation of existing surface roads with bus priority is all that is needed.

4. An abridged CRR will be done eventually, but probably not until there is an ' enlightenment ' in Federal politics with respect to sorting out real transport funding priorities in the big smokes ..

Other jurisdictions can manage proper public transport reform.  Queensland it seems, struggles with the basics.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

8th May 2015

SEQ: Will the BaT fly? No, thank goodness ...

Greetings

With respect to Brisbanetimes --> Cross River Rail tunnel no place for buses: Jackie Trad
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/cross-river-rail-tunnel-no-place-for-buses-jackie-trad-20150508-ggwxd2.html

Good to see transport planning commonsense is coming out on top.  It was a seriously flawed project the BaT tunnel as we detailed many times.

Proper bus network reform for Brisbane will save billions of dollars.  This can no longer be denied.  See here for our bus network proposal --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11099.0

The rail network will be expanded in the years to come with extensions to Ripley, Flagstone as well as utilising Trouts Road Corridor.  BaT would have stymied these longer term plans and rendered Brisbane and SEQ a failed transport state.

SEQ has dodged a bullet. See the thread here for an interesting discourse on the failure that was BaT --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10955.0

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Media release 14th September re-released 8th May 2015

SEQ: Will the BaT fly?

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said there is growing concern with the lack of detailed public information on operational aspects of the Bus and Train (BaT) tunnel.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Our members have attended consultation sessions for the BaT. They have expressed concerns with the lack of detailed operational information on how this tunnel will work, particularly the bus aspects."

"From the outset there has been concerns from transport planners that the concept is flawed (1)."

"These concerns are not being addressed.  What future proofing is there for the bus component? Clearly single unit buses will not be able to meet the eventual passenger demands. This is a once in a generation opportunity and to paralyse future transport options for Brisbane and south-east Queensland on political whimsy is seriously flawed."

"Brisbane bus issues can be fixed by implementing proper network review, and establishing proper bus priority on the surface network. Why waste billions of dollars?"

"If the BaT goes ahead as it is seem to be planned for, the end point will be a conga line of buses in the bus component similar to the Victoria Bridge bus conga lines.  Really, is this getting anywhere for the longer term?"

"Eventually electric bi-artic buses, or even a rubber tyred metro system will need to operate in the bus component of the tunnel to handle the pax loads. This means there be multiple transfers for bus passengers, the bus network will be forced to operate as a trunk and feeder model. Meanwhile, rail passengers will have seamless rides into the new underground stations."

"A serious question is:  Why is there no combined bus and train tunnel anywhere in the world?"

"The answer is obvious.  No other jurisdiction has been as stupid as Queensland appears to be."

"Questions on the planned operational aspects need comprehensive and detailed explanations before wasting billions of dollars!"

References:

1. Bus and rail tunnel all show and no substance: transport expert
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/bus-and-rail-tunnel-all-show-and-no-substance-transport-expert-20131118-2xrab.html#ixzz3DDY3F0p7


Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[#Metro]

Take a look at some of the GOLD coming off the Courier-Mail comment sections.

Colette 17 hours ago

One of the problems with the rail lobby is their inability to think outside the square. They see a short lived bit of rail congestion and automatically think the solution is to throw more money at it.

There is no reason why rail passenger services shouldn't be capped at their present number, and thus remove the need to waste billions of dollars of taxpayers' money on extending the existing rail infrastructure that 95% of Brisbane residents don't use..

Another possible solution to the passenger congestion at Central station is to shut down the Ferny Grove line and convert that rail corridor into a motorway feeding into the Clem 7 and Kingsford Smith Drive, with buses feeding into the City either via the Inner Northern Busway or through the Valley. The benefits would be less congestion on our surface roads and quicker bus trips to the City for those in the North West suburbs of Brisbane. And of course less pain for taxpayers.

1 lane motorway c.a. 1200 - 2000 pphd
1 lane busway ca 18 000 pphd

Someone needs to go back to maths class...

LOL!

[ozbob]

' Colette ' constantly blogs soft attacks  ... I do not concern myself with disgruntled political hacks.

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail 29th May 2015 page 29

We need to get on track with transport

[v6hilux]

Couriermail --> Senior LNP figures say BaT Tunnel was former premier Campbell Newman's impossible dream

This link is better; http://m.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/senior-lnp-figures-say-bat-tunnel-was-former-premier-campbell-newmans-impossible-dream/story-fnn8dlfs-1227373555703

[ozbob]

Thanks, that is the mobile link.  Shows how sad the main web page is .. lol

[v6hilux]

The main page link you posted gave me a message that I have to subscribe to see the content.

[ozbob]

The main page link you posted gave me a message that I have to subscribe to see the content.

Couriermail is behind a pay wall.  I suspect that the mobile site is too but it only triggers after a number of article views.

I have also heard rumours that Brisbanetimes will be going the same way in the not to distant future as well.

I subscribe to both CM and Fairfax (the Age).  Guess you have to get unlimited access and ensure their survival in the longer term.

[STB]

The main page link you posted gave me a message that I have to subscribe to see the content.

Couriermail is behind a pay wall.  I suspect that the mobile site is too but it only triggers after a number of article views.

I have also heard rumours that Brisbanetimes will be going the same way in the not to distant future as well.

I subscribe to both CM and Fairfax (the Age).  Guess you have to get unlimited access and ensure their survival in the longer term.

I refuse to pay for any of the major papers in Queensland, particularly Murdoch's rags, I can get better journalism that's free on other websites.   Any chance of explaining in a nutshell what the article said?

[ozbob]

You will for a while.  They will all go pay wall eventually, with the exception of the ABC.  Even that is not guaranteed.

The article?  Basically says the BaT tunnel couldn't be engineered to meet the cost set by Newman et al.

I know that attempts were made to save money, eg. changes at Roma St but there were still issues.  The article suggests that the LNP sources said they were going to abandon the project once re-elected citing ' technical difficulties ' as the reason to pull it.  So there you go.

The article might appear on News.com.au later.  Can be accessed there.

Is now >> http://www.news.com.au/news/queensland/senior-lnp-figures-say-bat-tunnel-was-former-premier-campbell-newmans-impossible-dream/story-fnn8dlfs-1227373555703

[colinw]

Take a look at some of the GOLD coming off the Courier-Mail comment sections.

Colette 17 hours ago

One of the problems with the rail lobby is their inability to think outside the square. They see a short lived bit of rail congestion and automatically think the solution is to throw more money at it.

There is no reason why rail passenger services shouldn't be capped at their present number, and thus remove the need to waste billions of dollars of taxpayers' money on extending the existing rail infrastructure that 95% of Brisbane residents don't use..

Another possible solution to the passenger congestion at Central station is to shut down the Ferny Grove line and convert that rail corridor into a motorway feeding into the Clem 7 and Kingsford Smith Drive, with buses feeding into the City either via the Inner Northern Busway or through the Valley. The benefits would be less congestion on our surface roads and quicker bus trips to the City for those in the North West suburbs of Brisbane. And of course less pain for taxpayers.

1 lane motorway c.a. 1200 - 2000 pphd
1 lane busway ca 18 000 pphd

Someone needs to go back to maths class...

LOL!

Ignore Colette, "her" comments are little more than white noise.  "She" has form - constant attacks of this form, the gist of which is always that the rail network should be strangled and shut down in favour of a car-only future.

Deluded, possibly politically motivated, and ultimately an irrelevant marginal view.

Ditto for "Jenny", who often comments on Gold Coast matters saying that the G:Link should be ripped up and given back to road space.  May even be the same person.

[techblitz]

most of the mainstream australian press are simply victims of the advertising revenue bug.......everyone is moving to youtube and google and other big social media sites....with 1 big word...FREE.

ytube for example are paying their advertising lead generators(video producers) millions per year...and have virually single handedly flogged all the major advertising revenue off mainstream newspapers and TV stations....
as for brisbane times......go pay per view if you dare.....it just means an opportunity is created for someone else to provide free online news.

[colinw]

+1!  Pay Per View == No View as far as I am concerned.

[dancingmongoose]

For non-paying users such as myself
http://www.news.com.au/news/queensland/senior-lnp-figures-say-bat-tunnel-was-former-premier-campbell-newmans-impossible-dream/story-fnn8dlfs-1227373555703

[pandmaster]

Colette 17 hours ago
shut down the Ferny Grove line and convert that rail corridor into a motorway feeding into the Clem 7 and Kingsford Smith Drive

Ignoring the fact that rail would carry many more passengers than a motorway, could you even fit one lane each way into the alignment? Certainly it would be a very narrow motorway.

[Stillwater]

Well, there we have it in this News Corp report:

"BRISBANE'S bold BaT Tunnel was never going to be built, former senior figures in the Newman government claim. 
 
"The two-level tunnel to carry both trains and buses under the city's river was a centrepiece of the previous LNP government's infrastructure plans, to be partly funded by the controversial asset-leasing program and the rest from a public-private partnership.

"But even if the LNP had won January's state election, the much vaunted $5 billion BaT project was doomed and would have been dumped during its second term in power, according to sources in the previous administration."

When will Queensland state governments stop seeing transport as a public relations campaign and get real?

[#Metro]

Paying is a bit annoying especially if you want a number of websites and don't want to have to sign up to a whole heap of them at once. 

On the other hand, subscriptions should affect the nature of the content. Subscriptions provide a more stable revenue stream and you don't have to worry about offending corporate advertisers who might pull advertising so much.

That should see the quality increase quite a bit.