Cross River Rail Project

[colinw]

This too shall pass.

Patience.

[v6hilux]

Just two days ago, ARTC called for Tenders for the Melbourne/Brisbane Inland Railway project (which has Fed funding). It is intended to divert ALL (if possible) current freight away from the the NG line between Toowoomba and Port of Brisbane. The new route for all these freight trains will be via the current interstate line through Acacia Ridge, then onto Dutton Park Junction, sharing the corridor near the proposed CRR tunnel portal area. I think it is intended to have six tracks there, so no big deal.

I will ask if there is much freight x the western line that would run north (or vice versa) via the Merryvale bridge? I know the FNQ PNQ services use it often to go to Moolabin yard and I assume there is peak hour restrictions for freight going that way anyway?

Anyway, moving the west/north NG freight to come into the metro network via Salisbury could add a whole new dimension to the equation if not already included in the numbers to justify the CRR. As it is, this traffic could run via Tennison, but could the CCR remove the freight stress from the Corinda to Roma Street section?

[ozbob]

Under the present arrangements  the feds have the bulk $$ .. IA was meant to be the org that prioritised projects and did when ALP govt.  Abbott is a nutter .. the sooner he goes the better.

[colinw]

Inland rail is only as far as Acacia Ridge - what happens beyond there to the port is undefined, although I note that traffic is predominantly 3'6" gauge and the standard gauge to the port is bordering on disused.  The inland rail should change that, as it opens up the possibility of grain & even coal from Moree, Narrabri and proposed coal mines in the Inverell/Ashford area that could see the Inverell line reborn, or perhaps a branch across from Inglewood via the old Texas corridor. (Yes, there are serious coal proponents in the Ashford district)

Anyway, here's the proposed route - a mix of new and existing alignment west of Rosewood, thence across to Kagaru and up to Acacia Ridge.

I still consider the inland rail to be one of these: 

And the decision to route via Toowoomba is just plain insane, although I like the idea of it opening up an interurban passenger service to Toowoomba as a side effect.

[SurfRail]

And the decision to route via Toowoomba is just plain insane, although I like the idea of it opening up an interurban passenger service to Toowoomba as a side effect.

It does make the investment somewhat more productive by fixing the western line and enabling closure of the Milmerran branch (possibly others), and the transit time difference from down south wouldn't be huge.

[ozbob]

I heard a brief grab on 4BC News a short while ago from DP Trad " The B of the BaT was more spin than substance. We are looking at the rail component " .. or words to that effect.

[ozbob]

^ Here is the news bulletin, listen closely from around 0.40 secs to 1.18 min.

Click --> here! mps3 1MB

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Cross-river tunnel no place for buses: Trad

[colinw]

 

JFDI.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

8th May 2015

SEQ: Will the BaT fly? No, thank goodness ...

Greetings

With respect to Brisbanetimes --> Cross River Rail tunnel no place for buses: Jackie Trad
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/cross-river-rail-tunnel-no-place-for-buses-jackie-trad-20150508-ggwxd2.html

Good to see transport planning commonsense is coming out on top.  It was a seriously flawed project the BaT tunnel as we detailed many times.

Proper bus network reform for Brisbane will save billions of dollars.  This can no longer be denied.  See here for our bus network proposal --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11099.0

The rail network will be expanded in the years to come with extensions to Ripley, Flagstone as well as utilising Trouts Road Corridor.  BaT would have stymied these longer term plans and rendered Brisbane and SEQ a failed transport state.

SEQ has dodged a bullet. See the thread here for an interesting discourse on the failure that was BaT --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10955.0

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Media release 14th September re-released 8th May 2015

SEQ: Will the BaT fly?

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said there is growing concern with the lack of detailed public information on operational aspects of the Bus and Train (BaT) tunnel.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Our members have attended consultation sessions for the BaT. They have expressed concerns with the lack of detailed operational information on how this tunnel will work, particularly the bus aspects."

"From the outset there has been concerns from transport planners that the concept is flawed (1)."

"These concerns are not being addressed.  What future proofing is there for the bus component? Clearly single unit buses will not be able to meet the eventual passenger demands. This is a once in a generation opportunity and to paralyse future transport options for Brisbane and south-east Queensland on political whimsy is seriously flawed."

"Brisbane bus issues can be fixed by implementing proper network review, and establishing proper bus priority on the surface network. Why waste billions of dollars?"

"If the BaT goes ahead as it is seem to be planned for, the end point will be a conga line of buses in the bus component similar to the Victoria Bridge bus conga lines.  Really, is this getting anywhere for the longer term?"

"Eventually electric bi-artic buses, or even a rubber tyred metro system will need to operate in the bus component of the tunnel to handle the pax loads. This means there be multiple transfers for bus passengers, the bus network will be forced to operate as a trunk and feeder model. Meanwhile, rail passengers will have seamless rides into the new underground stations."

"A serious question is:  Why is there no combined bus and train tunnel anywhere in the world?"

"The answer is obvious.  No other jurisdiction has been as stupid as Queensland appears to be."

"Questions on the planned operational aspects need comprehensive and detailed explanations before wasting billions of dollars!"

References:

1. Bus and rail tunnel all show and no substance: transport expert
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/bus-and-rail-tunnel-all-show-and-no-substance-transport-expert-20131118-2xrab.html#ixzz3DDY3F0p7


Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

ABC News --> Cross River Rail project and Bus and Train tunnel could be combined, says Queensland Deputy Premier Jackie Trad

Cross River Rail project and Bus and Train tunnel could be combined, says Queensland Deputy Premier Jackie Trad
By Melinda Howells

Updated 27 minutes agoFri 8 May 2015, 1:47pm

Elements of Labor's Cross River Rail project and the Liberal National Party's Bus and Train (BaT) Tunnel could be combined to find a public transport solution for Brisbane, Deputy Premier Jackie Trad says.

Both major parties agreed a new link across the Brisbane River was needed, with the only train bridge, the Merivale Bridge,due to reach capacity in 2020.

Ms Trad said she did not want to go back to the drawing board and has had briefings from her department on both proposals.

Speaking at a Property Council function, she said Cross River Rail was the superior project.

"But there were some good things about the BaT tunnel as well - and I know many of you would be shocked to hear that from me," Ms Trad said.

She said some technical aspects of the LNP's proposals should be considered, including the alignment or route.

But she said the Newman government's idea to include buses as well was impractical.

"If you have both modes of public transport in the one tunnel and something should happen to that tunnel, you will close down the city for a very long time," she said.

"Putting two modes of transport along in the one tunnel actually opens the city up to a substantial amount of risk."

She also took a swipe at the former premier Campbell Newman's involvement with the BaT Tunnel.

"We need proper transport planners and technicians advising Government, not a frustrated engineer who wanted to put trains and [buses] together," she said.

The Bligh Government had estimated that Cross River Rail would cost $8 billion.

The Newman Government's BaT tunnel had a $5 billion price tag, and the LNP had planned to allocate $1 billion from asset leases to the project.

With funding still up in the air, Ms Trad said the start of work was years away.

"We're not going out tomorrow to build another tunnel," she said.

Ms Trad said the rail link would be referred to new state government body Building Queensland, which would assess and prioritise infrastructure projects.

Ms Trad said she would also continue to push for Commonwealth funding, even though the Federal Government had indicated it was not willing to fund public transport infrastructure.

[Stillwater]

From a shovel-ready project at the top of Infrastructure Australia's priority list to being 'years away'.    Welcome to transport planning in SEQ.

[ozbob]

From a shovel-ready project at the top of Infrastructure Australia's priority list to being 'years away'.    Welcome to transport planning in SEQ.

That is the sad reality. 

I will occupy myself with posting stupid memes ... 

[ozbob]

I think we can forget about CRR or whatever for a while now.  The other shovel ready project in 2009 - duplication Beerburrum to Landsborough might be the go.  The crew of MBRL could continue on that project.  That would be the smart thing to do, but hey this is Queensland.  The Feds might toss in some portions of ' salt ' to get it going, you just never know ..

[#Metro]

OMG, did I just read what I think I did in that BrisTimes article?!

The technical parts are sound - number of bridges in the world where trains and cars travel on different decks, nobody thinks this is 'risky'.

CRR is a superior project in financial terms.

Unfortunately with politicking driving the planning process, it's going to be a mess. The comment about frustrated engineers is just nonsense - if anyone is frustrated it would be the public servants at DTMR who have had to draw and redraw the damn project now for the THIRD TIME ALL OVER AGAIN.

I see a space here, in all this mess, to just come in and WE can design the tunnel ourselves and put up our own proposal. It will probably be more ready to submit to IA or IQ than the Government's.

[ozbob]

The pressure for bus network reform is now immense, guess that is the bright side! 

[#Metro]

The new BUTT (Brisbane Underground Train Tunnel) can be funded by extending land tax to residential properties as a States Rates bill.

[SteelPan]

OK - let's get some FACTS on the table:

YES - the current state govt HAS gone back to the drawing board on this - they've committed to nothing - but, the theory of a "LESS project" - costing MORE!

Sure you can build the theory of a CRR Mk1, you can build the theory of CRR Mk 1,001 - Newman, a qualified engineer - repeat, a qualified engineer - came up with an AFFORDable, ie, a deliverable project, that would deliver a SECOND cross-river rail connection AND a cross-river bus tunnel!

We now, have a theory of NOTHING, that will deliver LESS!

Any idiot can develop "plans" - for major infrastructure, taking them from a plan [a theory] to a reality - a piece of actually, functioning infrastructure - costs billions! Campbell Newman, a qualified engineer, knew how to deliver "two birds", for  the price of "one stone"!

Major infrastructue is not about the PERFECT project, it's about the BEST project, that is affordable - BAT was exactly that - two projects that Brisbane needs - DELIVERED!

As of tonight...we're nowhere...yet again!   

[pandmaster]

The design was technically risky: that is the best Trad can come up with? I am glad she rejected the bus component, though I fail to see the technical risk. The large diameter is about the only thing I can come up with.

[#Metro]

2008 was the ICRCS Rail Capacity Study. It is now 2015, so that is a good 7 years wasted with not 1m of track laid.

They also have no funding source either.

[Gazza]

The design was technically risky: that is the best Trad can come up with? I am glad she rejected the bus component, though I fail to see the technical risk. The large diameter is about the only thing I can come up with.

Yes, the vibe I got from Trads statement is that she really doesn't know a lot about transport.

By all means, combining bus and train is silly for the reasons we all know, but its scary to think she's rejecting it because of "lengthy shutdowns"

[#Metro]

Just imagine the pile of papers are CRR/BaT plans...

[SurfRail]

OK - let's get some FACTS on the table:

YES - the current state govt HAS gone back to the drawing board on this - they've committed to nothing - but, the theory of a "LESS project" - costing MORE!

Sure you can build the theory of a CRR Mk1, you can build the theory of CRR Mk 1,001 - Newman, a qualified engineer - repeat, a qualified engineer - came up with an AFFORDable, ie, a deliverable project, that would deliver a SECOND cross-river rail connection AND a cross-river bus tunnel!

We now, have a theory of NOTHING, that will deliver LESS!

Any idiot can develop "plans" - for major infrastructure, taking them from a plan [a theory] to a reality - a piece of actually, functioning infrastructure - costs billions! Campbell Newman, a qualified engineer, knew how to deliver "two birds", for  the price of "one stone"!

Major infrastructue is not about the PERFECT project, it's about the BEST project, that is affordable - BAT was exactly that - two projects that Brisbane needs - DELIVERED!

As of tonight...we're nowhere...yet again!   

Cross posting abject nonsense here and on the Brisbane Times doesn't make you any more cogent or correct.  2 x 0 = 0.

[#Metro]

"I think the issue is, if you have both modes of public transport in the one tunnel and something should happen to that tunnel, you will close down the city for a very long time," she said.

Does Ms Trad realise that a combined tunnel, in any case, would permit trains to continue via Merivale Bridge and buses via both the Captain Cook Bridge and or South Bank?

Indeed, the original 1970 Wilbur Smith Plans were to use the Kangaroo Pt rail line as the main entry and the Merivale bridge for backup...

[James]

More pearls of wisdom from the Saviour of the Buses, the Dishonourable Transport Minister Jackie Trad.

First she commits to not reforming BT's bus network (aside from window dressing), now she's committing to doing nothing on CRR until we have another full business case and study. FFS, this has been done and done to death already. Just build the bloody thing! If construction doesn't start by 2020, I think I will get on to the tracks at Yeerongpilly and start digging myself! The death of BaT was welcome, but at least it had some kind of 'building timeframe'.

She is the Transport Minister Queensland deserves, not the Transport Minister Queensland need. At least Emerson posted bus selfies and at times seemed interested in making a difference.

[#Metro]

Fingers crossed waiting for the fancy animation and hi-gloss brochure coming!! 

[ozbob]

A bus tunnel is not needed.  Victoria Bridge can be converted to bus / ped / bicycles  only.

Fix up the mess that is the SEB portal.

Reduce the number of empty / near empty buses into the CBD through implementing bus network reform as TransLink botched in 2013.

As far as busway extensions go - dream time.  Augmentation of existing surface roads with bus priority is all that is needed.

An abridged CRR will be done, but probably not until there is an ' enlightenment ' in Federal polyticks with respect to sorting out real transport priorities in the big smoke ...

Until then, stick to positing stupid memes ... helps keep one sane ..

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> No buses in the train tunnel

No buses in the train tunnel (00:46)

The Newman government's Bus and Train tunnel may have been scrapped but it could be re-imagined without the buses.

[ozbob]

^ I can imagine many things too.  That is transport planning in Queensland - imagineering ...   

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

9th May 2015

Re: SEQ: Will the BaT fly? No, thank goodness ...

Good Morning,

Ok where to from here?

1. A bus tunnel is not needed.  Victoria Bridge can be converted to bus / pedestrians / bicycles only.  Fix up the mess that is the South East Busway portal, and sort out the Cultural Centre Bus Station.

2. Reduce the number of empty / near empty buses running into and out of the CBD and causing bus jam at peaks through implementation of bus network reform.  Buses can then be redeployed to provide a better public transport service in the suburbs. This was attempted by TransLink in 2013 but a distinct lack of cooperation by BCC and weak state political leadership consigned that sensible move to yesterday's political scrap heap.

3. As far as busway extensions go - dream time.  Augmentation of existing surface roads with bus priority is all that is needed.

4. An abridged CRR will be done eventually, but probably not until there is an ' enlightenment ' in Federal politics with respect to sorting out real transport funding priorities in the big smokes ..

Other jurisdictions can manage proper public transport reform.  Queensland it seems, struggles with the basics.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

8th May 2015

SEQ: Will the BaT fly? No, thank goodness ...

Greetings

With respect to Brisbanetimes --> Cross River Rail tunnel no place for buses: Jackie Trad
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/cross-river-rail-tunnel-no-place-for-buses-jackie-trad-20150508-ggwxd2.html

Good to see transport planning commonsense is coming out on top.  It was a seriously flawed project the BaT tunnel as we detailed many times.

Proper bus network reform for Brisbane will save billions of dollars.  This can no longer be denied.  See here for our bus network proposal --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11099.0

The rail network will be expanded in the years to come with extensions to Ripley, Flagstone as well as utilising Trouts Road Corridor.  BaT would have stymied these longer term plans and rendered Brisbane and SEQ a failed transport state.

SEQ has dodged a bullet. See the thread here for an interesting discourse on the failure that was BaT --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10955.0

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Media release 14th September re-released 8th May 2015

SEQ: Will the BaT fly?

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said there is growing concern with the lack of detailed public information on operational aspects of the Bus and Train (BaT) tunnel.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Our members have attended consultation sessions for the BaT. They have expressed concerns with the lack of detailed operational information on how this tunnel will work, particularly the bus aspects."

"From the outset there has been concerns from transport planners that the concept is flawed (1)."

"These concerns are not being addressed.  What future proofing is there for the bus component? Clearly single unit buses will not be able to meet the eventual passenger demands. This is a once in a generation opportunity and to paralyse future transport options for Brisbane and south-east Queensland on political whimsy is seriously flawed."

"Brisbane bus issues can be fixed by implementing proper network review, and establishing proper bus priority on the surface network. Why waste billions of dollars?"

"If the BaT goes ahead as it is seem to be planned for, the end point will be a conga line of buses in the bus component similar to the Victoria Bridge bus conga lines.  Really, is this getting anywhere for the longer term?"

"Eventually electric bi-artic buses, or even a rubber tyred metro system will need to operate in the bus component of the tunnel to handle the pax loads. This means there be multiple transfers for bus passengers, the bus network will be forced to operate as a trunk and feeder model. Meanwhile, rail passengers will have seamless rides into the new underground stations."

"A serious question is:  Why is there no combined bus and train tunnel anywhere in the world?"

"The answer is obvious.  No other jurisdiction has been as stupid as Queensland appears to be."

"Questions on the planned operational aspects need comprehensive and detailed explanations before wasting billions of dollars!"

References:

1. Bus and rail tunnel all show and no substance: transport expert
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/bus-and-rail-tunnel-all-show-and-no-substance-transport-expert-20131118-2xrab.html#ixzz3DDY3F0p7


Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 2m

Latest media: ' Where to from here? ' > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2034.msg155924#msg155924 ... #qldpol   Yo Queensland!!  @jackietrad @scottemerson

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

10th May 2015

Greetings

New River City Rail Tunnel concept as BaT fails


http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/tramtrain/RCR_PNG_zpskdkmkkus.png

RAIL Back on Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has floated a River City Rail Tunnel concept to replace the failed BaT project.

The BaT business case showed that it was inferior to Cross River Rail on both cost-benefit and net-present value criterion. The lack of an interchange station at Park Road was also unacceptable. An alternative River City Rail Tunnel proposal broadly follows the same alignment as the BaT project, but with the bus tunnel component removed.

The River City Rail Tunnel proposal features four stations at:

* PA Hospital / Park Road Interchange Underground
* Wooloongabba Underground
* Queen Street Mall Underground
* Roma Street Underground

A very high density Transit Oriented Development (TOD) would be developed at Woolloongabba. The Queen Street Mall Station would be created by re-purposing the existing underground Treasury Casino Car Park under Queen's Park. The King George Square Busway, which was constructed in King George Square Underground Car Park is a precedent that supports the feasibility of this approach. The line would then continue to Roma Street Underground and terminate. Turn-back facilities would be provided at the end of the tunnel to allow trains to run return services. Dutton Park station would move approximately 400 meters north and merge with the existing Park Road station. The line would broadly follow a George St alignment in the CBD.

Options exist to extend the tunnel beyond Roma Street.

Under the proposal, all Beenleigh and Gold Coast trains would use the new line, saving around 10 minutes for all passengers. Ferny Grove Services would begin and end at Park Road Station, giving trains every 7.5 minutes or better all day at South Bank. The proposal uses 9-carriage trains rather than the BaT's 7-carriage trains for growth and flexibility.

The Queensland Government should look into an immersed train tube to cross the Brisbane River. This means that the tunnel would sit on or within the bed of the Brisbane River rather than being bored underneath it. The BART Transbay tube, Sydney Harbour Tunnel and Stockholm CityBanan Tunnel are examples of this approach.

In terms of bus congestion, this is really something Brisbane City Council has caused. In our opinion, the Lord Mayor's so-called bus network 'evolution' is just a public relations jingle that is now flooding the Brisbane CBD with half-empty buses during peak hour. We estimate that at four bus changes per year it would take ca. 50 years for the Brisbane Bus network to be modernised. Such an approach is unacceptable and we reject it.

Money would be better directed fixing issues at the Melbourne street busway portal and other parts of the CBD busway infrastructure, purchasing high capacity 150-passenger superbuses and implementing our New Bus Network proposal that our members worked on for 12 months. That proposal would see Brisbane have Australia's best bus network in 2 years flat, a BulimbaGlider to Bulimba and a CentenaryGlider to the Centenary Suburbs.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

New Bus Network Proposal
http://tiny.cc/newnetwork

River City Rail Tunnel Concept
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11413.msg155926#msg155926

Map Link
https://www.google.com/maps/d/view?mid=zo2O13ByWclc.k_u_wF9pihnQ

Sent to all outlets:

9th May 2015

Re: SEQ: Will the BaT fly? No, thank goodness ...

Good Morning,

Ok where to from here?

1. A bus tunnel is not needed.  Victoria Bridge can be converted to bus / pedestrians / bicycles only.  Fix up the mess that is the South East Busway portal, and sort out the Cultural Centre Bus Station.

2. Reduce the number of empty / near empty buses running into and out of the CBD and causing bus jam at peaks through implementation of bus network reform.  Buses can then be redeployed to provide a better public transport service in the suburbs. This was attempted by TransLink in 2013 but a distinct lack of cooperation by BCC and weak state political leadership consigned that sensible move to yesterday's political scrap heap.

3. As far as busway extensions go - dream time.  Augmentation of existing surface roads with bus priority is all that is needed.

4. An abridged CRR will be done eventually, but probably not until there is an ' enlightenment ' in Federal politics with respect to sorting out real transport funding priorities in the big smokes ..

Other jurisdictions can manage proper public transport reform.  Queensland it seems, struggles with the basics.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

8th May 2015

SEQ: Will the BaT fly? No, thank goodness ...

Greetings

With respect to Brisbanetimes --> Cross River Rail tunnel no place for buses: Jackie Trad
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/cross-river-rail-tunnel-no-place-for-buses-jackie-trad-20150508-ggwxd2.html

Good to see transport planning commonsense is coming out on top.  It was a seriously flawed project the BaT tunnel as we detailed many times.

Proper bus network reform for Brisbane will save billions of dollars.  This can no longer be denied.  See here for our bus network proposal --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11099.0

The rail network will be expanded in the years to come with extensions to Ripley, Flagstone as well as utilising Trouts Road Corridor.  BaT would have stymied these longer term plans and rendered Brisbane and SEQ a failed transport state.

SEQ has dodged a bullet. See the thread here for an interesting discourse on the failure that was BaT --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10955.0

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Media release 14th September re-released 8th May 2015

SEQ: Will the BaT fly?

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said there is growing concern with the lack of detailed public information on operational aspects of the Bus and Train (BaT) tunnel.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Our members have attended consultation sessions for the BaT. They have expressed concerns with the lack of detailed operational information on how this tunnel will work, particularly the bus aspects."

"From the outset there has been concerns from transport planners that the concept is flawed (1)."

"These concerns are not being addressed.  What future proofing is there for the bus component? Clearly single unit buses will not be able to meet the eventual passenger demands. This is a once in a generation opportunity and to paralyse future transport options for Brisbane and south-east Queensland on political whimsy is seriously flawed."

"Brisbane bus issues can be fixed by implementing proper network review, and establishing proper bus priority on the surface network. Why waste billions of dollars?"

"If the BaT goes ahead as it is seem to be planned for, the end point will be a conga line of buses in the bus component similar to the Victoria Bridge bus conga lines.  Really, is this getting anywhere for the longer term?"

"Eventually electric bi-artic buses, or even a rubber tyred metro system will need to operate in the bus component of the tunnel to handle the pax loads. This means there be multiple transfers for bus passengers, the bus network will be forced to operate as a trunk and feeder model. Meanwhile, rail passengers will have seamless rides into the new underground stations."

"A serious question is:  Why is there no combined bus and train tunnel anywhere in the world?"

"The answer is obvious.  No other jurisdiction has been as stupid as Queensland appears to be."

"Questions on the planned operational aspects need comprehensive and detailed explanations before wasting billions of dollars!"

References:

1. Bus and rail tunnel all show and no substance: transport expert
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/bus-and-rail-tunnel-all-show-and-no-substance-transport-expert-20131118-2xrab.html#ixzz3DDY3F0p7


Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[SteelPan]

OK - let's get some FACTS on the table:

YES - the current state govt HAS gone back to the drawing board on this - they've committed to nothing - but, the theory of a "LESS project" - costing MORE!

Sure you can build the theory of a CRR Mk1, you can build the theory of CRR Mk 1,001 - Newman, a qualified engineer - repeat, a qualified engineer - came up with an AFFORDable, ie, a deliverable project, that would deliver a SECOND cross-river rail connection AND a cross-river bus tunnel!

We now, have a theory of NOTHING, that will deliver LESS!

Any idiot can develop "plans" - for major infrastructure, taking them from a plan [a theory] to a reality - a piece of actually, functioning infrastructure - costs billions! Campbell Newman, a qualified engineer, knew how to deliver "two birds", for  the price of "one stone"!

Major infrastructue is not about the PERFECT project, it's about the BEST project, that is affordable - BAT was exactly that - two projects that Brisbane needs - DELIVERED!

As of tonight...we're nowhere...yet again!   

Cross posting abject nonsense here and on the Brisbane Times doesn't make you any more cogent or correct.  2 x 0 = 0.

Excuse me? - I'll freely post, as a citizen of this country, my thoughts on a subject, in open public forums - as I see fit!  Further, I note that apart from attacking my posting of my thoughts, your reply contains ZERO points in reply!

[SurfRail]

Who said "stop posting"?

Our position on this project is well known and we don't resile from it.  It's crap, and we are very happy to see it gone.

[colinw]

+1.

Whether Newman was a qualified engineer or not, the BAT project was fatally flawed.

Not so much the bus bit, which I was ambivalent about, but:

1.  Its failure to continue to the Northside in any meaningful manner.
2.  Its failure to connect at the key southside interchange at Park Road
3.  Its failure to address ANY of the rail capacity problems looming between Dutton Park and Salisbury, and
4.  Its design effectively ruled out Trouts Road corridor permanently.

Now, lets cut the party political hack cr%p.  THIS is no place for it.  Some of us hate team RED, some team BLUE, some team EVERYBODY.  No point beating each other up about it and going "off message".

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Cross River Rail: who's to blame?

Cross River Rail was the "best project in the country" but never came to fruition and both sides of politics blame each other.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Cross River Rail: who's to blame?

Cross River Rail was the "best project in the country" but never came to fruition and both sides of politics blame each other.

[Jonno]

PS it was qualified engineers who decided the car was the solution to all our problems and set us on our way to today's mess. It is also engineers who refuse to accept they failed. Not all but enough that this city is not debating transport policies and celebrate the opening of another congestion creating road or tunnel.

BAT was a cheap and poor value delivering project.

[#Metro]

I have outlined a do-minimum project that meets the essentials. All sides are to blame really, the current government could fund the project by selling something and introducing land tax as a 'States Rate' and/or borrowings at what are now record low interest rates. Perth self-funded its own New Metro Rail project in 2007 which doubled the size of the rail network and included tunneling under the CBD.

At the very minimum, the Queensland Government could make minor changes to permit superbus operation, buy superbuses and restructure the bus network. To date, it has failed to do even this.

[v6hilux]

Read this just now in a review of how the budget will effect the housing market;

Queensland Treasurer Curtis Pitt described the Federal Budget as a "let down for Queensland". The State Government was chasing funding for a cross river rail, the second stage of the Gold Coast light rail and the Sunshine Coast rail duplication. However, the Federal Government has announced its infrastructure loans are conditional, and Queensland will not receive full federal support unless it agrees to sell its assets.

It appears the Abbott government is trying to extort and rape Queensland.