Cross River Rail Project

[#Metro]

Constitutionally the Federal government has no role in Schools, Hospitals, Education or Roads. It only has a role in rail with the permission of that state. The only reason why state governments play these silly games is because they don't have income taxing powers and therefore find themselves short of funds. State governments are quite poor really.

[ozbob]

Rail Express --> War over Cross River Rail ongoing

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/is-cross-river-rail-2013-election.html
Is Cross River Rail a 2013 election decider?

[Stillwater]

How can Mr Emerson maintain his credibility on this issue?  One the one hand he says Queensland won't accept the money on offer from Canberra for CRR.  Yet he is out there stating that he wants an initial $100 million in federal funding that's going begging for CRR (a down-payment from Canberra to kick-start the project) redirected to 'other transport priorities' in Queensland.

What has a higher priority than the CRR project, which IA has designated as the No.1 transport infrastructure project nationwide?

Mr Emerson says he has rejected the feds offer, which means he must reject ALL the money.

By saying he wants to redirect $100 million available immediately for CRR, that is pretty clear evidence that he has accepted the Commonwealth offer, but just wants to play the political game.  And what sort of message is he sending by wanting to spend the $100 million on 'other projects', presumably roads that, in all likelihood would have lower BCR assessments?

It's madness.

[Jonno]

Lower BCR? He will spend it on roads that have a massive negative BCR!!  Yep lets spend 100M that will cost the economy even more.  It's madness!!!

[johnnigh]

Just remember the strength of the roads lobby. Bus and trucking businesses, road builders now all private except for soon to be privatised Road Tech, RACQ, so many powerful friends of roads and some of them standing to lose by diversion of freight or passenger growth into rail. No explicit conspiracy, simply the popular politics of Queensland as of the rest of this country.

However, out in WA, treasurer Troy Buswell has just announced enormous increase in borrowing for infrastructure. Not sure how much for rail, but it figured in the press release.

[johnnigh]

RACQ supports the CRR as even they can see into the future.

When push comes to shove in straitened times?

[ozbob]

Letter to the Editor: North West News 14th August 2013 page 8

CrossRiverRail is vital

CROSS River Rail is one of the state's largest and most important state-building projects. The name of the project is perhaps unfortunate as it merely suggests that the project will cross the Brisbane River and is rail. It is so much more than this—the benefits of this project are wide and dispersed across South East Queensland, reaching as far away as Beenleigh, Yarrabilba, Cleveland, Nambour and the Gold Coast for example. It enables rail to become the backbone of the public transport network with the ability to carry large numbers of passengers.

Cross River Rail decentralises the central part of the rail network, which means increased capacity and reliability. Cross River Rail will provide an alternate core rail route through the CBD and will be seen for the opportunity it is—a chance for a state to take on a large, important state building project and important piece of infrastructure, and a chance for government to get it right.

ROBERT DOW, Rail Back On Track

[ozbob]

Media release 25 August 2013



SEQ: Cross River Rail - A tunnel, for trains, how about it Mr Abbott?

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers again highlights the importance of Cross River Rail (1, 2, 3).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Cross River Rail is one of the state's largest and most important state-building projects. The name of the project is perhaps unfortunate as it merely suggests that the project will cross the Brisbane River and is rail. It is so much more than this - the benefits of this project are wide and dispersed across South East Queensland, reaching as far away as Beenleigh, Yarrabilba, Cleveland, Nambour and the Gold Coast for example. It enables rail to become the backbone of the public transport network with the ability to carry large number of passengers."

"By way of analogy, sending cars all to the city on the road system in peak hour will result in congestion as cars queue and get in the way of each other. A similar situation occurs on the rail system - sending trains all to the city on the train system in peak hour will also result in congestion as trains wait to cross the Merivale Bridge into the CBD from the south, and as trains from all lines converge on the core CBD section. The number of additional 'slots' available for trains on this restricted section will exhaust in 2016."

"Around this time, and if nothing is done, our members expect to see trains leaving people behind and a worsening of car congestion on the roads. The bus system already has capacity issues. No government wants to go down in history for deliberately bringing about an avoidable situation like that - just look at Melbourne, Perth or Sydney for examples of transport issues deciding election outcomes."

"The time is right Mr Abbott to accept that a roads only solution is not going to solve any of the transport woes in the major capitals of Australia.  Infrastructure Australia has Cross River Rail as the top priority. Are you a future leader for all of Australia Mr Abbott or just the road lobby?  Now is the hour ..."

"At around $5 billion dollars Cross River Rail is costly, but so is lost business productivity and congestion. The benefits of this project also exceed the costs of the project. Multi-billion dollar car tunnels are also costly, both to construct and also to drive through. Indeed they are the highest toll, highest pollution, lowest capacity solution to deal with transport and urban mobility problems, and yet this hasn't prevented them being constructed."

"Cross River Rail decentralises the central part of the rail network, which means increased capacity and reliability. Currently, if there is an incident between Roma Street, Central, Brunswick Street or Bowen Hills, the entire network is plunged into chaos as all trains must currently travel through this 'core' section. Cross River Rail will provide an alternate core rail route through the CBD and give some much needed redundancy to this critical part of the network."

"RAIL Back On Track is confident that Cross River Rail will be seen for the opportunity that it is - a chance for a state to take on a large, important state-building project and important piece of infrastructure, and a chance for government to get it right. Indeed the construction of the Merivale Bridge and electrification of the QR train system are projects that Queenslanders can be proud of. Cross River Rail will allow future generations to come into the Brisbane CBD from the suburbs and afar for work, study and play, rather than sit in congestion on the roads.

"Cross River Rail - think of it as TransApex (4), for trains!"

"Leader or follower Mr Abbott?"

References:

1. http://www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/

2. Brisbane Cross River Rail's future hangs by thread http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/rail-fixs-future-hangs-by-thread/comments-fnbwr276-1226315918783

3. http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/kevin-rudd-says-brisbane8217s-cross-river-rail-road-funding-in-doubt-if-he-loses-the-election/story-fnihsrf2-1226691670658

4. TransApex is the car toll tunnel bypass system purported to relieve congestion on roads.  http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/traffic-transport/roads-infrastructure-bikeways/tunnels-bridges-major-roads/TransApex/index.htm

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Tony Abbott 'misses chance to play trump card' says rail group

Tony Abbott 'misses chance to play trump card' says rail group
August 25, 2013 - 6:58PM Graham Cairns

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott could have 'all but guaranteed' a win in Brisbane on Sunday if he'd backed the city's proposed cross-river rail plan, argues a lobby group, but he missed the chance.

"There were lots of R words - Rudd and Roads, but no Rail" said a disappointed Rail Back On Track's Robert Dow.

"We really do need ongoing investment from all levels of Government for urban rail. At the moment we are seeing projects advanced in Perth, Adelaide and regional Victoria (but) Cross River Rail is the number-one priority according to Infrastructure Australia.

"At this stage there's no real progress being made toward getting funding. It's a very necessary project - without it, we are just going to grind to a halt."

"The bus system is approaching capacity, as is the road system," Mr Dow said, adding "Unless we get some extra capacity through the centre of the rail network we are really going to struggle."

While Mr Abbott made a number of references to infrastructure in his party launch on Sunday, saying he wanted to see 'bulldozers on the ground', it was obvious that his main focus was on roads, rather than other forms of transport.

Mr Dow says that was not a real surprise, but his group was given some hope by Mr Abbott's slightly modified recent statements.

"A week or so ago, Mr Abbott made a comment which was a little different - he said 'We generally don't fund urban rail', instead of his more usual 'We won't be funding'," Mr Dow said."That's slightly different to his normal rhetoric, so while it was always a long shot, we did have some hopes.

"If a deal was done, we think it would make the election absolutely guaranteed in terms of Queensland. We thought it might have been a trump card he could play," he said.

Mr Dow says without funding commitments, rail in Brisbane is really going to struggle.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

26th August 2013

Re: SEQ: Cross River Rail - A tunnel, for trains, how about it Mr Abbott?

Greetings,

Now the dance begins ...

========================================

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Tony Abbott 'misses chance to play trump card' says rail group

    Tony Abbott 'misses chance to play trump card' says rail group
    August 25, 2013 - 6:58PM Graham Cairns

    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott could have 'all but guaranteed' a win in Brisbane on Sunday if he'd backed the city's proposed cross-river rail plan, argues a lobby group, but he missed the chance.

    "There were lots of R words - Rudd and Roads, but no Rail" said a disappointed Rail Back On Track's Robert Dow.

    "We really do need ongoing investment from all levels of Government for urban rail. At the moment we are seeing projects advanced in Perth, Adelaide and regional Victoria (but) Cross River Rail is the number-one priority according to Infrastructure Australia.

    "At this stage there's no real progress being made toward getting funding. It's a very necessary project - without it, we are just going to grind to a halt."

    "The bus system is approaching capacity, as is the road system," Mr Dow said, adding "Unless we get some extra capacity through the centre of the rail network we are really going to struggle."

    While Mr Abbott made a number of references to infrastructure in his party launch on Sunday, saying he wanted to see 'bulldozers on the ground', it was obvious that his main focus was on roads, rather than other forms of transport.

    Mr Dow says that was not a real surprise, but his group was given some hope by Mr Abbott's slightly modified recent statements.

    "A week or so ago, Mr Abbott made a comment which was a little different - he said 'We generally don't fund urban rail', instead of his more usual 'We won't be funding'," Mr Dow said."That's slightly different to his normal rhetoric, so while it was always a long shot, we did have some hopes.

    "If a deal was done, we think it would make the election absolutely guaranteed in terms of Queensland. We thought it might have been a trump card he could play," he said.

    Mr Dow says without funding commitments, rail in Brisbane is really going to struggle.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Media release 25 August 2013



SEQ: Cross River Rail - A tunnel, for trains, how about it Mr Abbott?

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers again highlights the importance of Cross River Rail (1, 2, 3).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Cross River Rail is one of the state's largest and most important state-building projects. The name of the project is perhaps unfortunate as it merely suggests that the project will cross the Brisbane River and is rail. It is so much more than this - the benefits of this project are wide and dispersed across South East Queensland, reaching as far away as Beenleigh, Yarrabilba, Cleveland, Nambour and the Gold Coast for example. It enables rail to become the backbone of the public transport network with the ability to carry large number of passengers."

"By way of analogy, sending cars all to the city on the road system in peak hour will result in congestion as cars queue and get in the way of each other. A similar situation occurs on the rail system - sending trains all to the city on the train system in peak hour will also result in congestion as trains wait to cross the Merivale Bridge into the CBD from the south, and as trains from all lines converge on the core CBD section. The number of additional 'slots' available for trains on this restricted section will exhaust in 2016."

"Around this time, and if nothing is done, our members expect to see trains leaving people behind and a worsening of car congestion on the roads. The bus system already has capacity issues. No government wants to go down in history for deliberately bringing about an avoidable situation like that - just look at Melbourne, Perth or Sydney for examples of transport issues deciding election outcomes."

"The time is right Mr Abbott to accept that a roads only solution is not going to solve any of the transport woes in the major capitals of Australia.  Infrastructure Australia has Cross River Rail as the top priority. Are you a future leader for all of Australia Mr Abbott or just the road lobby?  Now is the hour ..."

"At around $5 billion dollars Cross River Rail is costly, but so is lost business productivity and congestion. The benefits of this project also exceed the costs of the project. Multi-billion dollar car tunnels are also costly, both to construct and also to drive through. Indeed they are the highest toll, highest pollution, lowest capacity solution to deal with transport and urban mobility problems, and yet this hasn't prevented them being constructed."

"Cross River Rail decentralises the central part of the rail network, which means increased capacity and reliability. Currently, if there is an incident between Roma Street, Central, Brunswick Street or Bowen Hills, the entire network is plunged into chaos as all trains must currently travel through this 'core' section. Cross River Rail will provide an alternate core rail route through the CBD and give some much needed redundancy to this critical part of the network."

"RAIL Back On Track is confident that Cross River Rail will be seen for the opportunity that it is - a chance for a state to take on a large, important state-building project and important piece of infrastructure, and a chance for government to get it right. Indeed the construction of the Merivale Bridge and electrification of the QR train system are projects that Queenslanders can be proud of. Cross River Rail will allow future generations to come into the Brisbane CBD from the suburbs and afar for work, study and play, rather than sit in congestion on the roads.

"Cross River Rail - think of it as TransApex (4), for trains!"

"Leader or follower Mr Abbott?"

References:

1. http://www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/

2. Brisbane Cross River Rail's future hangs by thread http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/rail-fixs-future-hangs-by-thread/comments-fnbwr276-1226315918783

3. http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/kevin-rudd-says-brisbane8217s-cross-river-rail-road-funding-in-doubt-if-he-loses-the-election/story-fnihsrf2-1226691670658

4. TransApex is the car toll tunnel bypass system purported to relieve congestion on roads.  http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/traffic-transport/roads-infrastructure-bikeways/tunnels-bridges-major-roads/TransApex/index.htm

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[dancingmongoose]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/is-cross-river-rail-2013-election.html
Is Cross River Rail a 2013 election decider?

No no no, this election is about whether you want homosexual marriage or the boats stopped.

[Stillwater]

We need someone to creep into Tony Abbott's bedroom and place earphones on his head, linked to a continuous loop communications device playing a three-word slogan of the type which he likes to utter -- CROSS RIVER GOOD .... CROSS RIVER GOOD..... CROSS RIVER GOOD, Tony.

[ozbob]

The coalition's lack of support for public transport is actually a big issue this election, particularly down south.  Whether it is going to change the outcome unlikely, but the fact remains urban rail and public transport needs to be funded in the same way as roads.  Funding has changed,  there are many urban rail and public transport projects supported Federally.  IA is the body and it will be very perverse if roads only flows from here.

Our own state government expects it and is actively lobbying all parties.  A number of coalition candidates have expressed concern on this and intend to work to change the policy if/when elected.  If they don't, the states will drown in congestion and transport failure and so endeth the reign of Abbott et al.

--> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10171.0

[Golliwog]

You know politics is getting dumb when I put what I see as one of the more predictable questions about the LNPs transport policy (i.e. lots of funding for rail project, little or none for rail, even freight rail) of "Why isn't there also funding to fix bottlenecks on the national rail freight network like those that exist on the Sunshine Coast line?" gets the basic response of "Because the party has made the decision to fund roads" or words to that effect.

I don't agree with their stance on funding projects like CRR (I kind of agree with not funding Federally those that are urban rail only, but CRR does have some decent freight benefits as well) but they can at least back that with the argument that they see PT as a State issue, not a Federal one, which I can see is a reasonable argument. But when the defense is effectively "We didn't want to" which translates to "We can get more votes by funding roads" it's a bit b*llsh!t.

[dancingmongoose]

Two quick questions I have about CRR, dunno if you'll have the answers

1. What line will take the CRR route? Somewhere suggested the airport-gold coast line, and that does make the most sense otherwise if it was the beenliegh line the gc train would need to stop all stations between south bank and yeerongpilly.
2. The line runs from bowen hills to yeerongpilly via the ekka before going underground. How is it going to stop at bowen hills? The current ekka line is in the middle of the platform at bowen hills, meaning only 3 car trains can stop there. From what I've heard the stations on CRR will have 9 car platforms, so is Bowen Hills getting a makeover or will it loop around Mayne and then come back along that bridge that comes off the ferny line?

[ozbob]

Check out the info here --> http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/C/Cross-River-Rail/Project-design.aspx

[Stillwater]

Strange Coalition policy.  The Libs have a plan to 'fund the roads', not the rail.  Then comes the promise of the Melbourne-Brisbane inland freight railway, which seems to be a Nationals promise.

Also today, Coalition has confirmed that it will implement the first four years of Gonski education funding according to the exact formula that ALP negotiated with the states.  Qld Govt held out on Gonski funding, thinking it would get a better deal from the Coalition in government.  It won't.  The state also held out on CRR funding from federal Labor and will get a big fat zero from a Coalition federal government. 

Sunshine Coast Line worse still.  FF has a letter from the Queensland Government saying that duplication to Nambour is a federal responsibility.  (True!)  Mr Abbott, the probable future PM, says it is a state responsibility because it carries passenger trains among the considerable rail freight movements.

Both Labor and the Coalition federally acknowledge the Sunshine Coast Line and North Coast Line to Townsville form part of the network of road/rail corridors they will fund.  The Coalition's policy is to reinstate Auslink, its transport infrastructure funding program.  Auslink specifically states that the Brisbane-Townsville railway line is a state responsibility.  (Remember that the state believes the feds are responsible for it.)

The Nationals, the rural rump of the Coalition say they will ensure that regional hub lines feeding into the main inland rail line (Melbourne-Brisbane, but not further north, it would seem) are upgraded, including the laying of new track.

The Coalition policy specifically excludes the Brisbane-Townsville railway line from its rail funding - actively discriminating against Queensland rural areas that are Nationals heartland and in favour of southern states.

Why?

Mr Truss has a potential new coal mine in his electorate.  Whereas major coal and ore mines across Australia have railway lines serving them that can take very long trains, Mr Truss would appear to want all the coal from the Tiaro coal mine trucked over the Bruce Highway while the NCL runs right beside the site.  Relative to other mines, it would have enormous transportation costs that would affect its viability.  The Coalition's reverse logic continues -- it praises effective rail links elsewhere but Queensland, everywhere but (specifically) Queensland.

If the Coalition wins seats such as Capricornia in Queensland, will it continue to plan not to put money into metro and non-metro railways in Queensland while, at the same time, saying it is investing in rail?  Again, everywhere but Queensland.

Mr Emerson is a fool to place faith in the federal Coalition to fund his under-performing railways, except the interstate railway from Melbourne via Parkes.  The federal Coalition policy is a hopeless mish-mash of inconsistency.  That's probably why Mr Emerson likes it.

[#Metro]

Sunshine Coast Line worse still.  FF has a letter from the Queensland Government saying that duplication to Nambour is a federal responsibility.  (True!)  Mr Abbott, the probable future PM, says it is a state responsibility because it carries passenger trains among the considerable rail freight movements.

Is the Bruce or Pacific Highways state responsibilities too because they carry commercial passenger bus services?

[Stillwater]

The Coalition policy is to reform, but retain Infrastructure Australia.  At its first meeting with a new minister in a Coalition Government, IA will be asked about its transport priorities.  IA's response will be that CRR is its top priority project, ready to proceed.  The next question will be 'what's the second-highest priority, we're not funding that one?'

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes --> Professor says public servants should work in outer suburbs

More public servants should work in Queensland's outer suburbs in a radical re-think of Australia's urban planning policy, one of Queensland's leading urban planners said Friday.

Associate Professor Jago Dodson, from Griffith University's Urban Research Program said Australia had to radically restructure urban planning policy concentrating on city CBD.

Professor Dodson said this would improve unemployment in outer suburbs and ease public transport problems connected to the "tidal flow" of workers to and from the CBD.

His comments followed the release of Labor's Cities policy on Friday, which promised to set up Outer Suburb Growth Taskforces.
Advertisement

Professor Dodson welcomed the concept as the first time in 40 years a federal government had set up suburban planning to help cities grow.

"One way to address it is to use the power of governments - both state and federal - to deliberately restructure the distribution employment in the city through the relocation of public servants to targeted concentrations in suburban areas," Professor Dodson said.

"They can then attract private sector jobs, particularly in industries related to those public services," he said.

He said more public servant offices should be establish in Logan, in Ipswich, the Gold Coast and Caboolture to drive the program.

Executive public servant positions should remain in the city heart.

"But things like drivers' licence issuing centres, processing licenses, processing applications, all the back office type work that is done by government does not need to be in the city centre."

Professor Dodson said Labor was on the right track in its Cities Policy, which proposes growth strategies for outer suburban suburbs.

"Many urban planners right across Australia will be delighted that for the first time in an election campaign - at least for 40 years - a major party has put forward a substantial policy that addresses the challenges and problems in our cities," he said.

"And particularly in our suburbs."

Professor Dodson said he was pleased to see the policy recognised that mega-infrastructure projects - like the Cross River Rail project - did not always provide best options for suburbs.

He told a planners forum that Brisbane's $4.2 billion Cross River Rail had "questionable merit".

"It is another example of a major project that is heavily targeted towards the central city and it is spending money on mega-infrastructure that is providing capacity that simply addresses the heavy concentration of employment in the central city," he said.

"It is these tidal flows of people moving in and out of the city (that are the issue)."

Planners have recently revealed that despite new transport projects, people living in the outer suburbs subsidise public transport than people in the inner-city.

He said if more jobs were provided in outer suburbs, projects of the scale of $4.2 billion Cross River Rail may not be the best solution.

"Instead you could use the funds that you save that type of infrastructure for the provision of more basic public transport services, like extra bus routes connected to train lines in suburban locations."

[ozbob]

...  for the provision of more basic public transport services, like extra bus routes connected to train lines in suburban locations." ...

You don't say Jago!   

[ozbob]

My blog comment ...

That's what TransLink was attempting to do Jago with the bus review.  A proper connected network but BCC and the Minister for Segways couldn't see pass their own political self interest ahead of the broader community.

Cross River Rail is dead is my guess. Automatic train protection is needed for the suburban network, this will increase linear density and safety.  Also counter peak service frequency needs to be increased.  If you want to decentralise  lets provided the necessary services/connections to make it work.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Peter Beattie ‏@SmartState1 10h

Up early tomorrow for the 6-13 am Beenleigh to Brisbane train.We need the cross river link. Why won't Abbott fund it?

====================

[James]

Twitter

Peter Beattie ‏@SmartState1 10h

Up early tomorrow for the 6-13 am Beenleigh to Brisbane train.We need the cross river link. Why won't Abbott fund it?

====================

In my opinion, nobody from the former ALP government is in any position to talk. They had 14 years to at least start on CRR, but they only truly started moving on it when the party was already on death row leading up to the 2012 state election. If Peter Beattie really had the interests of Queensland in mind, CRR would have been started in 2006 (while the state wasn't broke) and would be up and running by now. It is inaction by all sides which has led to this mess.

The success of the busway and especially the 130/150 at that time should have been a clear warning sign that CRR was necessary. But in typical fashion, we opted to stick our heads in the sand until it was too late.

[Stillwater]

Why did Beattle/Bligh plan a project without doing the hard yards and consider a viable means of funding it instead of producing the 'Everything Will Happen in 2031' document?
Why did the LNP float the idea of the 'Cleveland Solution' in an attempt to kill off CRR?
Why didn't Campbell Newman's government accept the federal Labor deal that would have funded it?
Why did it throw its lot in with Tony Abbott who has stated publicly that he will not fund it?
How is it that Australia's No.1 top priority infrastructure project, assessed as such by the independent Infrastructure Australia, won't get funded?
Why?  Why?  Why indeed.

[ozbob]

SEQ cannot get the basics right, or use the existing assets in a coherent fashion.

TMR has a lot to answer for.  Elected representatives haven't a clue generally.  The advice they get is tempered with pork and the result is mediocrity.

Even something as fundamental as the duplication of the line north of Beerburrum is beyond their meagre capabilities.

[Stillwater]

On the question of duplication of the Sunshine Coast Line, Queenslanders have a better understanding of how 1000 angels can balance on a pinhead than they do the LNP dual policy position re the extra line north of Beerburrum.

The federal Liberal Party position is that the SCL, like CRR, is a passenger line and, as such, will not be funded by a Coalition Government in Canberra.

The Queensland LNP Government position, as presented in writing by Andrew Powell MP (Glasshouse), is that it is the funding responsibility of the Federal Government.

The LNP argues this incongruous dual position with equal voracity without a hint of embarrassment at the obvious conflict.  For both positions to be true in the same universe, we must conclude that the LNP position, on the question of funding, is: 'it ain't us -- someone else is responsible.'

The state minister, Mr Emerson, sees the above as a sound policy position, as you said Ozbob, dripping with political intrigue.

[Stillwater]

It was Brisbane's standard of infrastructure that meant it was ranked 20th in the world on a recent liveable cities index -- behind Melbourne (No.1), Sydney, Adelaide and Perth, all in the top 10.

[SurfRail]

It's a question of priorities.  Roads will require more funding because they are politically more popular with regional voters.  Most of the problems with the rail network could be fixed much more easily than are being let on if the transport budget was properly reprioritised to fixing the NCL, CRR, suburban freight bypasses etc instead of mucking about with rubbish like the Park Ridge Connector.

The tunnels in particular are a massive waste of capital.  Brisbane City Councils financial contribution to the CLEM7 is slightly greater than what KRudd offered for CRR, and the capital cost of Legacy Way is about double that again.  Neither achieves much, and in the scheme of things we would have been better off spending it on rail than on the off-chance that driving rates will magically go up again in future.

[James]

I think the problem with Brisbane is that it has grown very fast in the last 2-3 decades and has not always managed this well. Most of Mel and Sydney's rail systems in route trackage are +100 year old and they have had electrification for most of their suburban networks for +50 years. BRisbane only rolled out sparks in 1979 and still had loco hauled suburbans until 1999. Prior to the Merivale Bridge, Brisbane Southern network resembled that of a small third world country town.

Sydney grew into the Central Coast and Wollongong, Brisbane seems to have gone reverse.

Brisbane is also incrediably spread out, even lower density than Sydney or Mel due to flood areas. Much of teh growth in the 70-90's was away from rail because during this period, who gived a rats about PT. Much of Sydney and Mel's growth on the other hand followed the rail system because it was there right from the start and only moved into the gaps in recent times. In the city, Brisbane's rail system skirts the CBD, Syd and Mel through the guts although Mel built its city loop in the 70's. Brisbane has relied on low capital cost bus system to move its people because the roads could handle it. 

Look at the track route km for Greater Brisbane, number of stations and actual pax. its either the lowest density system in Australia or beaten by Adelaide.

Sydney built its water supply system in the 50's and 60's and only recently had to look at other options. Brisbane came within 18mths of running dry and had to play catch up quickly. You can survive without PT, you cannot without water and since the water grid was built, it hasn't stopped raining, so ~$6B spent for near zero return to date and for at least next 5 years.

Now with a state up to its neck in debt, its difficult to go out on a spending spree and resolve. It will take 20-30 years if done well. Network expansion will only be done in higher density areas as a means to reduce the operating subsidy per pax km and hence make the system more affordable for the taxpayer (not user) longer term.

I beg to differ. The primary reason rail has not done well in Queensland is due to a few things.

1. Failure to expand/modernise rail appropriately
Make a service and they will come. Just look at the corridor along the SE Freeway/SE Busway compared to other places. Build it and they will come, and come they have.

By comparison, the only significant rail infrastructure in Brisbane was last built when the Cleveland Line was rebuilt back in the 1980s, ignoring the almost-done Springfield Line. The phenomenal success of the 130/140/150 BUZes indicates that a railway line should have been built down Mains Rd 10 years ago, combined with a steam-ironed Beenleigh Line. Some rail lines also operate on an inferior alignment. It could be said that the majority of the rail network operates on poor alignments (Ferny Grove line ain't the best, Beenleigh line isn't good past Coopers Plains and Cleveland Line is a shocker alignment wise).

2. Failure to feed rail effectively
When it comes to feeding passengers to rail, there was nothing done about it in the Brisbane area. As such, patronage was always going to be limited to Park n Ride and walk-up patronage. If you have a network like this, a rail line is not going to attract much more patronage than a semi-frequent bus route.

3. Low off-peak frequency
As I've stated before, aside from Darra <-> Northgate, Ferny Grove <-> Park Road and Coopers Plains station (more by pure chance the GC trains/Beenleigh trains form 15 min frequency), our rail network is one overgrown welfare system. This over time has just fed a mentality in Brisbane that it is more advantageous to live near a frequent bus route rather than near a train station.

4. BCC
I don't want to emphasise this point, but the fact that all but one of our major shopping centre nodes are several km away from the nearest train station really does not bode well at all for our rail network. The ease of access of sending a bus down a major road from there (Old Cleveland Road, Gympie Road, SE Freeway) to the CBD just ends any chance of rail being competitive from these major centres.

Generally, there has just been inaction on transport infrastructure to cope with population growth on all sides. Brisbane has grown in a similar way to Sydney - north towards the Sunshine Coast, south towards the Gold Coast. The difference is, Sydney's rail network was far more developed initially and they have continued expanding the network.

All these things are reasons why the light has been off the buses and on to rail. But over time, we are going to see growth in rail. And the way to see patronage growth in rail is to invest in it - and that is why we need Cross River Rail. And it could be easily funded by the state if we stopped handing out cash willy-nilly and stopped building crap that we don't need.

[STB]

I think the problem with Brisbane is that it has grown very fast in the last 2-3 decades and has not always managed this well. Most of Mel and Sydney's rail systems in route trackage are +100 year old and they have had electrification for most of their suburban networks for +50 years. BRisbane only rolled out sparks in 1979 and still had loco hauled suburbans until 1999. Prior to the Merivale Bridge, Brisbane Southern network resembled that of a small third world country town.

Sydney grew into the Central Coast and Wollongong, Brisbane seems to have gone reverse.

Brisbane is also incrediably spread out, even lower density than Sydney or Mel due to flood areas. Much of teh growth in the 70-90's was away from rail because during this period, who gived a rats about PT. Much of Sydney and Mel's growth on the other hand followed the rail system because it was there right from the start and only moved into the gaps in recent times. In the city, Brisbane's rail system skirts the CBD, Syd and Mel through the guts although Mel built its city loop in the 70's. Brisbane has relied on low capital cost bus system to move its people because the roads could handle it. 

Look at the track route km for Greater Brisbane, number of stations and actual pax. its either the lowest density system in Australia or beaten by Adelaide.

Sydney built its water supply system in the 50's and 60's and only recently had to look at other options. Brisbane came within 18mths of running dry and had to play catch up quickly. You can survive without PT, you cannot without water and since the water grid was built, it hasn't stopped raining, so ~$6B spent for near zero return to date and for at least next 5 years.

Now with a state up to its neck in debt, its difficult to go out on a spending spree and resolve. It will take 20-30 years if done well. Network expansion will only be done in higher density areas as a means to reduce the operating subsidy per pax km and hence make the system more affordable for the taxpayer (not user) longer term.

By comparison, the only significant rail infrastructure in Brisbane was last built when the Cleveland Line was rebuilt back in the 1980s, ignoring the almost-done Springfield Line. The phenomenal success of the 130/140/150 BUZes indicates that a railway line should have been built down Mains Rd 10 years ago, combined with a steam-ironed Beenleigh Line. Some rail lines also operate on an inferior alignment. It could be said that the majority of the rail network operates on poor alignments (Ferny Grove line ain't the best, Beenleigh line isn't good past Coopers Plains and Cleveland Line is a shocker alignment wise).

You wouldn't say the Gold Coast line rebuilt in the mid 90s and extended about a year and a bit ago?

In general, Brisbane is a fair bit behind to the southern cities (namely Sydney and Melbourne) in quite a few areas beyond transport.  When it comes to culture, we're losing places for live bands to make their careers in the Valley with places being shut down, and the Valley being planned to what I call a sterilization by the Brisbane City Council.  Brisbane also lost the film and TV industry back in the 1980s, with main production and sales moving to Sydney and Melbourne.  We don't have the laneways with the artwork on the walls of buildings such as Melbourne does, complete with little cafes.  In terms of a transport network, it's just a bare minimum having to service a very unplanned city that Brisbane is, with a slightly unfortunate geography of where the city was built originally, it was meant to be Redcliffe way back when, before the settlement moved to the current location at North Quay.

I tend to agree with RTT though, Sydney and Melbourne developed quite rapidly much earlier than Brisbane did which really didn't develop until the 1970s, and the tourism and real estate boom of the 1980s namely on the Gold Coast, and unfortunately we're playing catch up to what Brisbane used to be before then, a sleepy country town compared to the Big Smoke of Sydney and Melbourne.

[Gazza]

^The Gold Coast line/extension isn't in Brisbane though.

It's a bit like saying Regional Fast Rail to Geelong was in Melbourne.

[STB]

^The Gold Coast line/extension isn't in Brisbane though.

It's a bit like saying Regional Fast Rail to Geelong was in Melbourne.

It's still a significant development in SE Qld, which includes Brisbane.

Overall though, Brisbane is light years behind the other cities.  I personally prefer Melbourne for livability in transport, culture and work opportunities, although Sydney is generally my default city so to speak to at least get a chance at life.

As you might notice, I'm quite anti-Brisbane .  To me it's a giant retirement village, with white collar nine to five workers keeping it afloat.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Labor reminds voters of Cross River Rail pledge

[ozbob]

[ozbob]

If CRR had not been pushed back by Labor, probably would have been built.

Not much chance now, particularly with the herring tunnel to the port.

What needs to happen from here is to build capacity on the existing network. SCL duplication, improved passing loops.  Continue to grade separate, ATP - this will increase capacity and safety ...

Congestion will in time force a rethink.   We gave it a good shot.  Time to move on ...

"Such is life  ... "  Ned Kelly

[ozbob]

^The Gold Coast line/extension isn't in Brisbane though.

It's a bit like saying Regional Fast Rail to Geelong was in Melbourne.

It's still a significant development in SE Qld, which includes Brisbane.

Overall though, Brisbane is light years behind the other cities.  I personally prefer Melbourne for livability in transport, culture and work opportunities, although Sydney is generally my default city so to speak to at least get a chance at life.

As you might notice, I'm quite anti-Brisbane .  To me it's a giant retirement village, with white collar nine to five workers keeping it afloat.

Yes STB.  Melbourne ranks high on the livability indexes for a reason, despite the abysmal weather.   As a boy, I did two paper rounds every morning starting at around 4am in the bleak weather, survived.  Sydney, lived there for a couple of years.  Traffic was bad then worse now, but the rail network is fine and expanding.

SEQ is heading to an absolute mess transport wise it would seem.  Victoria is looking very attractive.   It is easy to get around without a car, both city and country, an important consideration as we age. 

[HappyTrainGuy]

But SEQ has had its chances to fix alot of it. NCL duplication. CRR. Signaling Upgrades. New Bus Networks. All sh%t canned 

Personally I'd rather see CRR than the new link to Fishermans Island. With CRR you can ramp up the freights due to the more services going via it rather than on the surface. Also has better outcomes in the future when planning spur lines. Either have them running to the city as their own pattern or interchaning at a station to board a higher capacity express train (9 car Gold Coast-City services).

[ozbob]

Press Release

Fiona McNamara
Labor Candidate for Brisbane

A CLEAR CHOICE ON CROSS-RIVER RAIL

Labor Party candidate for Brisbane, Fiona McNamara, says only a re-elected Rudd Government will help bring the
city's vital Cross-River Rail Project to fruition.

"If Tony Abbott wins office on Saturday, Cross-River Rail is dead, buried and cremated," Ms McNamara said.

"Voters in Brisbane have a stark choice on Saturday — a choice between the Labor Party that backs Cross-River
Rail or the LNP that doesn't. It's as simple as that.

"At Saturday's election it's 'do-or-die' for Cross-River Rail.

"It is appalling that Tony Abbott is refusing to fund this vital project and that Premier Campbell Newman is happy
to reject Labor's concrete offer of $715 million and let Mr Abbott get away with not committing anything to the
project.

"Cross-River Rail is the type of major infrastructure project Brisbane and the south-east corner needs to cope with
a growing population.

"It means being able to cope with the projected doubling of rail trips to the CBD each morning — from more than
37,000 now to more than 61,000 by 20121 and almost 74,000 by 2031.

"By 2016 the existing rail system will be at capacity which means Cross-River Rail must be a priority.

"The Labor Party's commitment to the project from both the former state government and the federal government
is there for all to see.

"The Abbott alternative is to spending nothing on Brisbane's Cross-River Rail.

"It is easy for someone from Sydney like Tony Abbott to take an underground passenger rail services for granted.
"Someone like him from the north shore of Sydney clearly doesn't understand or care about the needs of
Queenslanders living in the growing south-east corner and refuses to see the importance of this project."

Ms McNamara said Mr Abbott could commit to a 25-kilometre tunnel for freight trains to the Port of Brisbane as
part of a $5 billion inland rail project to be built by 2026, but not to Cross-River Rail that was needed as soon as
possible.

"That project is on the never-never and I don't believe it will happen, unlike Cross-River Rail which is ready to roll
and is needed here and now," she said.

"All it needs is a federal government that is committed to it and a state government that is prepared to put the
quality of life of Brisbane people ahead of its own political game-playing."