Cross River Rail Project

[somebody]

Sydney has big feeble plans which were laughed back to Macquarie Street with a "try again".  So far, IA has been deafened by silence.

[SurfRail]

I am not too stressed about missing out on funding.  The scope changes for Melbourne Metro are far more dramatic than what has occurred here, which makes it cheaper but arguably less useful.  Ours is just an incomplete version of the full thing, which does not preclude the whole thing being done properly.

CRR is still the no. 1 funding priority for IA based on their rankings.

[nathandavid88]

^^ Which means if we do miss out on funding, it could be largely for political points scoring reasons more than anything else...

[SurfRail]

^^ Which means if we do miss out on funding, it could be largely for political points scoring reasons more than anything else...

Hasn't happened with any IA project yet.  The only big knockbacks have been for NSW, and in that case because what they proposed was demonstrably weak/had no business case/was a napkin sketch etc.

[somebody]

NSW discussion split to here: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9331.0

[Golliwog]

http://www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/

Coordinator-General's report of the EIS released

The Coordinator-General has released his evaluation report for the Cross River Rail Environmental Impact Statement (EIS).

The evaluation report represents a formal statutory step in the process of assessing the project that was submitted by the Department of Transport and Main Roads to the Coordinator-General.  It concludes the process as required under the State Development and Public Works Organisation Act 1971 (SDPWO Act).

In his report, the Coordinator-General noted that the CRR project could deliver a major boost to public transport capacity as well as city building and economic benefits to the city of Brisbane. It would improve rail commuting in Brisbane by reducing capacity constraints on the rail network, and improving service frequency and reliability.

The Coordinator-General's report went on to conclude that the impacts can be avoided or acceptably minimised and mitigated, provided that all conditions and requirements described in his report are fully implemented.

A full copy of the Coordinator General's Evaluation Report for the Cross River Rail's EIS is available at the Coordinator-General's project page.

The DSDIP page for the project: http://www.dsdip.qld.gov.au/assessments-and-approvals/cross-river-rail-project.html (Still talks about the full $6.4B project, not the segmented one previously discussed).

Coordinator General's Report on the EIS: http://www.dsdip.qld.gov.au/resources/project/cross-river-rail/crr-eis.pdf 1.85MB (released 20 Dec 2012)

[Golliwog]

Maybe they are doing the EIS for the final project? But I wouldn't be surprised he the whole thing is built at once, Campbell had to claim something or admitt ALP actually got something right.

Yeah, I've read through bits and pieces of the CG's report and they make mention of the review that was done that resulted in the cheaper version of CRR (which was just splitting it into stages, so total price and overall impacts would be roughly the same).

[mufreight]

Someonr is having a lend here, on a major project such as CRR it is always cheeper to do the entire project in one bite than to do it in bits.

[Stillwater]

We should praise the CRR team here.  They put together a project and its accompanying business case that could not be disputed (remember, we pushed and pushed on the business case).  ALP put all the spin and gloss up front, while the hard work proceeded behind the scenes.  It survived the Cleveland Solution assault and could not be found wanting by the LNP bean counters.  In the end, to show 'responsible government', LNP tinkered at the edges and decided to stage construction.

Mufreight's right.  Anything built in stages costs more eventually - a bit like paying for a house outright or buying it in installments, via a mortgage.  What we must avoid is a stall by government on a start date.  Shades of Connecting SEQ 2020, er 2026, nope 2030 ..... 

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes live blog --> here!

Tony Moore: "Brisbane is not just ready for an underground rail system, it is essential," according to one of Australia's leading public transport figures, Professor Peter Newman says from West Australia's Curtin University.

Interviewed about solving the creaking wheels in Brisbane's public transport network, he said the underground rail network would help solve many of the city's transport problems.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/brisbane-live-at-work-wednesday-january-9-2013-20130108-2ceez.html

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail click here!

Reserve Bank board members say the road to riches is more infrastructure spending

Reserve Bank board members say the road to riches is more infrastructure spending
From: The Courier-Mail January 24, 2013 12:00AM

AUSTRALIA must fast-track new roads, railways, bridges and ports to secure prosperity as the mining boom fades, key members of the Reserve Bank have warned.

The construction of Brisbane's $4.4 billion Cross River Rail project is touted as a priority for a fresh wave of national infrastructure spending.

In an interview with The Courier-Mail, central bank board members Heather Ridout and John Edwards said investing in key urban projects would unlock a new cycle of productivity to replace the commodity price boom and continue the 21-year run of growth.

Ms Ridout said short-term considerations had led to under-investment and were holding the nation back. She called on state and federal governments to go into deficit to fund the infrastructure.

"We have under-invested. Congested roads in cities are a major sign that we're not doing well enough," Ms Ridout said.

"We just keep putting short-term considerations before the real work of building a productive economy."

Dr Edwards, a fellow board member and former economic adviser to Paul Keating, warned Australia faced challenges including a high dollar and an ageing population.

"The big investment boom in mining, which has helped the economy over the last six years, is close to a peak," Dr Edwards said.

Success from now on would "take substantial investment in factories, offices and mines, roads, bridges, ports, railways, broadband and, above all, in education and training."

Dr Edwards said the National Broadband Network was the most important piece of infrastructure on the table.

"Australia's future will increasingly depend on our success not only in exporting minerals and farm products, but also clever manufacturers and high-value services."

Michael Deegan, the head of the Federal Government's infrastructure advisory body, Infrastructure Australia, said the collective underspend on urban infrastructure ran to "tens of billions of dollars".

Building the Cross River Rail should be the state's top infrastructure priority, he said.

"We think that Cross River Rail line would be transformational for Brisbane," he said.

The project was declared a national priority more than six months ago but all levels of government are yet to commit funding.

It carries a $4.4 billion price tag, almost half the cost of the original $8.5 billion proposal, later reduced to $6.4 billion, with the state prepared to tip in about 20 per cent.

The revised project includes the construction of two tunnels from Yeerongpilly in the south to Victoria Park in the north, under the CBD and the Brisbane River.

Underground stations will be built at Woolloongabba, Boggo Road, Albert Street and Roma Street.

In the meantime about $300 million will be needed for stop gap measures such as signalling changes and the removal of seats from trains to add another 40 per cent capacity to services.

Queensland is also seeking hundreds of millions of dollars for the Toowoomba second range crossing, and the duplication of the Beerburrum to Landsborough rail line.

Business cases for both projects have been prepared for Infrastructure Australia.

Queensland's Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said federal investment in the state's transport infrastructure had fallen well behind that of Victoria and NSW.

He said the Newman Government had already shown it could deliver projects cheaper than had been proposed by Labor, with the Cross River Rail bill cut from $6.4 billion.

"But without the Federal Government kicking in 80 per cent funding, we won't be able to afford it," Mr Emerson said.

"There are a number of other projects such as the duplication of the Beerburrum to Landsborough rail line that were previously promised by Labor and forgotten about, that we have now resubmitted to the Federal Government."

Federal Infrastructure Minister Anthony Albanese said he would be guided by advice from the Queensland Government and Infrastructure Australia when allocating funding.

Ms Ridout is calling on governments, state and federal, to go into deficit, if necessary, to fund the infrastructure or to find ways to harness the savings sitting in superannuation accounts.

"That capital will end up overseas if we don't create the opportunities here to invest in long term, high yielding projects," Ms Ridout said.

Better education was also "absolutely 101" to our future, she said.

"Every year the skill content of jobs is rising and if you haven't got those skills you're going to get marginalised in an economy like Australia's."

She warned securing the next 10 years of income growth would be more difficult than the last 10.

"How we make the transition to this more diversified growth model is a big big issue for Australia and just because we have had 21 years of growth doesn't mean it happens automatically. It doesn't."

Dr Edwards said he remained hopeful Australians could successfully transition from a commodities boom to a high skills boom. "It won't be easy, but it can be done. The last twenty five years have shown us that."

Jessica Irvine, Robyn Ironside and Steven Scott

[HappyTrainGuy]

Saw that article last night and thought usual railway reporting standards by the courier mail when they had a photo of the Cleveland solution (ROma Street bound SMU with the map beside it linking the Cleveland Line to Ferny Grove via Normanby). At least they fixed it this time and at least had the right gauge train on it

[colinw]

Well, that is an improvement.  A couple of years ago they ran a picture of an Adelaide 2000 class DMU on a QR story!  5'3" rules! 

To be fair to the CM, I've seen a picture of a QR 3'6" DEL in an Adelaide story on The Advertiser. I think sometimes they just grab the first stock picture of a train that comes to hand.

[Golliwog]

Queensland's Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said federal investment in the state's transport infrastructure had fallen well behind that of Victoria and NSW.

He said the Newman Government had already shown it could deliver projects cheaper than had been proposed by Labor, with the Cross River Rail bill cut from $6.4 billion.

Bullsh!t. You're delivering it cheaper not because you're doing it 'better' but because you cut it into stages, with the lower $4B pricetag being the cost of the tunnel alone with only minimal surface works.

[ozbob]

I look out the window of IMU167 approaching Bundamba and what do I see?

[Jonno]

Queensland's Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said federal investment in the state's transport infrastructure had fallen well behind that of Victoria and NSW.

He said the Newman Government had already shown it could deliver projects cheaper than had been proposed by Labor, with the Cross River Rail bill cut from $6.4 billion.

Bullsh!t. You're delivering it cheaper not because you're doing it 'better' but because you cut it into stages, with the lower $4B pricetag being the cost of the tunnel alone with only minimal surface works.

+1000

[colinw]

You know, I can deliver projects cheaper too if I cut out half of the scope and deliver something that only has one buttock.

Customer might not like it though.

I wonder when these clowns are going to wake up to the fact that they won the election and are supposed to be running the state and actually delivering the services & infrastructure we need?

[somebody]

To be honest, I always thought the plans for surface works were brain damaged anyway.  e.g. all outbound trains needing to pass platform #1 at Salisbury.  Northern works were pretty odd too.

Hopefully they will be done properly now.

[nathandavid88]

I'd rather see the dumbed down $4B version with the essentials in the ground than nothing at all!

[Golliwog]

It's meant to help freight by allowing for a dedicated track to the south, though not sure about that now as I think that was part of the surface works. AFAIK they never released new plans showing precisely what was and wasn't now included in the $4.4B price tag other that saying "it's the tunnel".

I can see your point about labour costs being lower with high unemployment, but it depends on the field of unemployment. There was an article in this mornings CM about how the weekly wage of (I think) plumbers and electricians had gone up a few $100 because fewer people are choosing to do a trade these days. Not saying it's indicative of the construction sector as a whole, but just some parts of it.

[Old Northern Road]

They are going to need massive freight curfews if they only build this half arsed version. No freight between 5am and 9am and between 3pm and 7pm for example.

[somebody]

They are going to need massive freight curfews if they only build this half arsed version. No freight between 5am and 9am and between 3pm and 7pm for example.

What leads you to that conclusion?  How would it be worse than present?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Currently already applies in some sense. But that's also related to traffic flows to and from the range/NCL. The can get away with running freight during peakhour between some areas eg the 20km freight loop from Yeerongpilly-port of Brisbane and parts of the Ipswich/Caboolture-Nambour line.

[Old Northern Road]

They are going to need massive freight curfews if they only build this half arsed version. No freight between 5am and 9am and between 3pm and 7pm for example.

What leads you to that conclusion?  How would it be worse than present?

Freight will have to share tracks with Caboolture/Kippa-Ring/Nambour trains on the exhibition loop.

[somebody]

They already do Albion and north anyway.  Might remove one or more conflicting moves in the process - it would be hard to be worse than present.

[Old Northern Road]

You only have peak services travelling in one direction at a time north of Albion while on the Exhibition loop you'll have up to 20tph travelling in both directions.

[somebody]

You only have peak services travelling in one direction at a time north of Albion while on the Exhibition loop you'll have up to 20tph travelling in both directions.

So what?  I'm pretty sure there is no freight entering the exhibition loop in the AM peak.

[red dragin]

I am not sure of the plans, but won't trains to & from Mayne also being moving through that same area? As well as any freights and CRR trains.

[BrizCommuter]

You only have peak services travelling in one direction at a time north of Albion while on the Exhibition loop you'll have up to 20tph travelling in both directions.

So what?  I'm pretty sure there is no freight entering the exhibition loop in the AM peak.

There is quite often a freight train between 7-7:30am and again 4-4:30pm. Also, quite often see diesels on the mains (? after dropping off a long distance service) just before 7:30am.

[somebody]

Hmm, where are these freight trains going from and to?

[mufreight]

Hmm, where are these freight trains going from and to?

If you need to have that one answered you need to look at a map of Queensland, in the main they are to or from the north and north west of the state with some services to and from the western line.
Western line services have little impact on the operation of suburban commuter services as is proven by the operation of coal services to the port in the peaks, and no effect on cross river services.

[ozbob]

Jeff Addison ‏@Jeffrey_Addison

Federal funding gap for Cross River Rail http://t.co/B7UJrDrD

[somebody]

Hmm, where are these freight trains going from and to?

If you need to have that one answered you need to look at a map of Queensland, in the main they are to or from the north and north west of the state with some services to and from the western line.
Western line services have little impact on the operation of suburban commuter services as is proven by the operation of coal services to the port in the peaks, and no effect on cross river services.

Coal services aren't using the Exhibition loop.

I want someone who can say that they've seen them come from/to the Merivale bridge, Ipswich line or Caboolture line.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The last freighter north out of Brisbane is normally a PN service at around 5-6am. As a majority of the trains are returning to Mayne there isn't a problem with rollingstock clashing with freight trains heading south. Since freight trains are faster than all stoppers there isn't a big time penality to pay aswell. The majority of the rollingstock dead running to the north isn't a problem too as they can dwell at Bowen Hills as it passes or gain time back due to the Petrie traffic jam (signals back up to Carseldine-Geebung). Terminating Roma Street services can also utilise platforms 2-3 and 10 to minimise disruptions. Its complicated to explain but they have done wonders with the MTP.

[somebody]

The last freighter north out of Brisbane is normally a PN service at around 5-6am. As a majority of the trains are returning to Mayne there isn't a problem with rollingstock clashing with freight trains heading south. Since freight trains are faster than all stoppers there isn't a big time penality to pay aswell. The majority of the rollingstock dead running to the north isn't a problem too as they can dwell at Bowen Hills as it passes or gain time back due to the Petrie traffic jam (signals back up to Carseldine-Geebung). Terminating Roma Street services can also utilise platforms 2-3 and 10 to minimise disruptions. Its complicated to explain but they have done wonders with the MTP.

Thanks HTG.  By 6am in the exhibition loop it isn't peak hour yet.  Always nice to have some facts to back up what logically must be true.

[HappyTrainGuy]

There is also a freighter that goes through Normanby to Acacia Ridge heading via South Brisbane around 6.30pm.

[mufreight]

Hmm, where are these freight trains going from and to?

If you need to have that one answered you need to look at a map of Queensland, in the main they are to or from the north and north west of the state with some services to and from the western line.
Western line services have little impact on the operation of suburban commuter services as is proven by the operation of coal services to the port in the peaks, and no effect on cross river services.

Coal services aren't using the Exhibition loop.

I want someone who can say that they've seen them come from/to the Merivale bridge, Ipswich line or Caboolture line.

Since you obviously knew the answer why pose the question.

[somebody]

Because people were saying something different.  I started with this:

So what?  I'm pretty sure there is no freight entering the exhibition loop in the AM peak.

But the point was argued with, yet again.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Its not really a issue given that they clear the junction pretty quickly with their current lengths. Its really only the Roma Street via South Brisbane crosses that cause conflicts due to the multiple 25kph junctions and those crosses are usually planned paths in the MTP. Those same issues can be brought up at Yeerongpilly and Park Road Junction too as rollingstock moves along the suburbans instead of hte dedicated freight track. IMHO freight shouldn't even be on the suburban network for starters.

[mufreight]

With the eventual construction of CRR the loading of the subs between Roma Street and the junction for the Merivale Street bridge will be less and as most freighters come off the Exhibition loop on to the mains then via the mains to Sherwood the need for an additional line over that section will diminish.
The Exhibition loop itself between Roma Street and the junction for CRR also becomes less critical and can be used to hold freighters in either direction without significant impediment on commuter services.