Cross River Rail Project

[Mr X]

Last I heard the state had officially asked for funding.

[ozbob]

Last I heard the state had officially asked for funding.

Yep ...

[mufreight]

Running out of time, it is doubtful that the Feds will make the anouncement about funding this week working on the basis that when Queensland has an LNP Government who has said that they do not want to build it then IA will not need to fund it.

[somebody]

Running out of time, it is doubtful that the Feds will make the anouncement about funding this week working on the basis that when Queensland has an LNP Government who has said that they do not want to build it then IA will not need to fund it.

IA report to an ALP government.  It can't hurt Qld ALP if the announcement is made this week, just because it will raise the profile of an LNP weak point.

[Jonno]

Cross River Rail has had around 5 years of exhaustive work up.  IA has given the final approval.  Of course it is a funding issue, but unless there is bipartisan support the project is dead, funding will go to Melbourne and Sydney, as the new Governments (Liberal) in Vic and NSW carried on the momentum of the previous Labor initiatives.

The point is what is the alternative?  A couple of platforms at South Brisbane.   Goodness sakes, we have a major transport crisis looming and they are still tap dancing.

Newman has always supported CRR, until he became LNP leader.  This is the reality and exposes the real position.

Unfortuntaley the major transport crisis in Campbell's opinion is that we have not built enough urban freeways/tunnels and should put all our transport funding into these.

I reckon State Govt under LNP will buy Clem 7 and Legagcy Way when the stop opperating as financial concerns.

[SurfRail]

Running out of time, it is doubtful that the Feds will make the anouncement about funding this week working on the basis that when Queensland has an LNP Government who has said that they do not want to build it then IA will not need to fund it.

I don't believe the funding decisions are due until May.  It makes a mockery of IA's whole process and reason for existence for Julia to intercede just to bribe the Queensland electorate, and I doubt it would work anyway.

[O_128]

I hope campbell decides to build a tunnel from my suburb of new farm to my work at the gabba, saving me 4 minutes, He has my vote !!!!!!!!!

[SteelPan]

Cross River Rail has had around 5 years of exhaustive work up.  IA has given the final approval.  ......

GREAT, could you therefore please give me the link to the announcement by IA that they will partly fund CRR and how much they will contribute?

Also, could you pls provide the link to the Qld Govt announcement that CRR will go ahead with a specific start date for construction?   :conf

Note - I agree 100% we NEED CRR, I too want Newman to 100% publicly back it, but I can understand his position.  I also agree the South Brisbane statement was frankly stupid on Newman's part!

[ozbob]

Cross River Rail has had around 5 years of exhaustive work up.  IA has given the final approval.  ......

GREAT, could you therefore please give me the link to the announcement by IA that they will partly fund CRR and how much they will contribute?

Also, could you pls provide the link to the Qld Govt announcement that CRR will go ahead with a specific start date for construction?   :conf

Note - I agree 100% we NEED CRR, I too want Newman to 100% publicly back it, but I can understand his position.  I also agree the South Brisbane statement was frankly stupid on Newman's part!

The state has requested funding.  The outcome will be known in due course.  If it is not funded, it doesn't proceed, clearly. Melbourne and Sydney will then do doubt move forward with their projects, and Brisbane sinks further into the mire ...

[ozbob]

Media release 20 March 2012

SEQ: Cross River Rail: Release Cross River Rail plans today!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org), a web-based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has called on all media outlets to scrutinise the LNP's gaping silence on Cross River Rail.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"With few days left to go, there is still zero certainty about exactly what will happen to Queensland's largest public work's project - Cross River Rail - under an LNP Government. RAIL Back On Track calls for the full and detailed release of the LNP's solution to the Rail Capacity Crisis.

"In 2016 the number of slots on the Merivale Bridge available for trains to cross into the Brisbane CBD from the Gold Coast, Cleveland and Beenleigh lines will be exhausted. New developments in Logan and Yarrabilba also depend on Cross River Rail. Rail capacity on the core between Roma St and Bowen Hills will be in rail gridlock, further restricting trains from the north of Brisbane.

"Does the LNP support Cross River Rail or not? If they don't they should release their alternative plans for public scrutiny to the media. 'It's coming tomorrow' is no longer acceptable days out from the state election. What is there to hide from voters?

"Melbourne and Sydney have their own rail tunnel capacity projects in the pipeline - delay, indecision and flip-flapping to avoid solid committment to this state-building project that will benefit the entire South-East Queensland region and make the rail system more reliable risks losing the project and funds to competing proposals from the Southern states.

"Cross River Rail is a truly transformational project that will unblock the congestion within the core of the train network. It will pave the way for frequent, reliable train services across the entire region. Perth, Western Australia has undertaken a similar project, which included two bored tunnels underneath the Perth CBD.

"If Perth can do it, why can't we? The LNP must release its Cross River Rail plans, today."

References:

1. Perth to Mandurah Railway overview http://youtu.be/Gvx0Tk5oEow

2. Channel Nine Feature on the Mandurah Railway - 1

3. Channel Nine Feature on the Mandurah Railway - 2 http://youtu.be/d9yQKIrE5Yg

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[Stillwater]

What Mr Newman said:

"We will be announcing a specific policy to do with the rail capacity issues in Southeast Queensland during this campaign, so just wait and see."
- brisbanetimes.com.au, 23 February 2012

"We'll be talking about our plan for the cross-river rail capacity issue in the upcoming days''.
- brisbanetimes.com.au, 9 March 2012

"Watch this space. We'll be talking about cross river rail in the coming days."
brisbanetimes.com.au, 19 March 2012

[Gazza]

Seems like by leaving it till the last minute it gives no time for scrutiny of the alternative or rebuttal. 

[Stillwater]

True.  However, we have a man most likely to be Premier (Mr Newman) having made a statement that he will release a specific policy on relieving cross river rail congestion before the end of the election campaign.  He has also said he will release the LNP policy costings and the sources of funding for those policies.  Should Mr Newman fail to honour his undertakings, he risks his reputation among Queenslanders.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

21st March 2012

SEQ: Cross River Rail: Release Cross River Rail plans today!

Greetings,

The LNP have not explained their position on Cross River Rail or plans for the rail network.  This ongoing silence can only mean that reality has dawned and they now see the need for Cross River Rail and they must accept it is the solution to driving capacity improvements on the entire rail network.

Mr Newman has made these recent commitments:

"We will be announcing a specific policy to do with the rail capacity issues in Southeast Queensland during this campaign, so just wait and see."
- brisbanetimes.com.au, 23 February 2012

"We'll be talking about our plan for the cross-river rail capacity issue in the upcoming days''.
- brisbanetimes.com.au, 9 March 2012

"Watch this space. We'll be talking about cross river rail in the coming days."
brisbanetimes.com.au, 19 March 2012

Cross River Rail is now at a critical stage.  Having now reached the ' ready to proceed' status with Infrastructure Australia, the Queensland Government has submitted a request for funding.

To now turn around and not proceed with Cross River Rail would consign south-east Queensland to transport failure.

The silence can also mean that the LNP are not willing to put forward their plans have them publicly scrutinised.    Is this in line with their stated position on transparency and accountability?

Treating the electors with contempt does not auger well for the future.  Come clean and submit your solutions to public scrutiny Mr Newman or properly declare bi-partisan support for this transforming project.  Cross River Rail has had years of exhaustive rigorous workup.   Stop gap solutions drawn up on the back of beer-coasters are not acceptable.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Media release 20 March 2012

SEQ: Cross River Rail: Release Cross River Rail plans today!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org), a web-based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has called on all media outlets to scrutinise the LNP's gaping silence on Cross River Rail.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"With few days left to go, there is still zero certainty about exactly what will happen to Queensland's largest public work's project - Cross River Rail - under an LNP Government. RAIL Back On Track calls for the full and detailed release of the LNP's solution to the Rail Capacity Crisis.

"In 2016 the number of slots on the Merivale Bridge available for trains to cross into the Brisbane CBD from the Gold Coast, Cleveland and Beenleigh lines will be exhausted. New developments in Logan and Yarrabilba also depend on Cross River Rail. Rail capacity on the core between Roma St and Bowen Hills will be in rail gridlock, further restricting trains from the north of Brisbane.

"Does the LNP support Cross River Rail or not? If they don't they should release their alternative plans for public scrutiny to the media. 'It's coming tomorrow' is no longer acceptable days out from the state election. What is there to hide from voters?

"Melbourne and Sydney have their own rail tunnel capacity projects in the pipeline - delay, indecision and flip-flapping to avoid solid committment to this state-building project that will benefit the entire South-East Queensland region and make the rail system more reliable risks losing the project and funds to competing proposals from the Southern states.

"Cross River Rail is a truly transformational project that will unblock the congestion within the core of the train network. It will pave the way for frequent, reliable train services across the entire region. Perth, Western Australia has undertaken a similar project, which included two bored tunnels underneath the Perth CBD.

"If Perth can do it, why can't we? The LNP must release its Cross River Rail plans, today."

References:

1. Perth to Mandurah Railway overview http://youtu.be/Gvx0Tk5oEow

2. Channel Nine Feature on the Mandurah Railway - 1

3. Channel Nine Feature on the Mandurah Railway - 2 http://youtu.be/d9yQKIrE5Yg

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[Stillwater]

Maybe Mr Newman is adhering to his former military training:

The Defence Force Discipline Act 1982 (Cth) (DFD Act) contains two secrecy provisions.  Section 16 prohibits communications with, or the giving of intelligence to, the enemy.

Are the people of Queensland to be regarded as 'the enemy'?

[Gazza]

If there's no intelligence to begin with, then how can it be given to the enemy?

[ozbob]

If there's no intelligence to begin with, then how can it be given to the enemy?

[colinw]

I think this entire thread is based on a false premise.  It assumes the LNP actually has a Cross River Rail plan or policy to release.

I do not believe any such thing exists.

[Stillwater]

I am now inclined to believe you, colin.  We must consider Mr Newman's statements about some sort of policy 'in a few days' as being his way of coping with the lack of an LNP policy on the cross river rail capacity crisis.  Or they might have had one, but now consider it not advantageous to release it.

While it is quite probable that there is no policy, we do have his public statements.

"We will be announcing a specific policy to do with the rail capacity issues in Southeast Queensland during this campaign, so just wait and see."
- brisbanetimes.com.au, 23 February 2012

"We'll be talking about our plan for the cross-river rail capacity issue in the upcoming days."
- brisbanetimes.com.au, 9 March 2012

"Watch this space. We'll be talking about cross river rail in the coming days."
brisbanetimes.com.au, 19 March 2012

They are fact.  So the issue is no longer whether a policy exists.  The focus switches to Mr Newman's conduct as an "officer and a gentleman".  The voters are owed an explanation.

[#Metro]

I like memes, they're quick way of getting a point across.

[Mr X]

Meh. A Can Do government will just move people by buses. Works on the NCL.

No idea about the freight.

[Arnz]

Chinooks? Rocket Trucks?

[colinw]

Ah, knew there was a position on it around here somewhere ...

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

LNP's u-turn on cross-river rail

LNP's u-turn on cross-river rail
March 21, 2012 - 12:02PM

The Liberal National Party has retreated from its pledge to release a detailed policy on Brisbane's Cross River Rail project to voters before they head to the polls, saying today it would examine alternatives to the $6.4 billion plan after the election.

Liberal National Party leader Campbell Newman has promised to pursue a more affordable alternative to the government's underground rail project, and during the campaign has repeated a specific policy on the rail capacity issues would be unveiled during the campaign.

"We will be announcing a specific policy to do with the rail capacity issues in southeast Queensland during this campaign, so wait and see," Mr Newman told reporters on February 23.
Advertisement: Story continues below

On March 9, Mr Newman said: "We'll be talking about our plan for the cross-river rail capacity issue in the upcoming days."

And when asked about the issue during a video interview with brisbanetimes.com.au last Friday, Mr Newman advised "watch this space''.

"We'll be talking about cross-river rail in the coming days. I only say, as I always do, that we have a plan to get the cross-river rail capacity issue sorted out,'' he said.

However, LNP parliamentary leader Jeff Seeney confirmed today the party would not spell out its specific long-term plan before Saturday's election.

Mr Seeney said the LNP was focused on first dealing with the "choke point" looming in 2016, when the Merivale Rail Bridge across the Brisbane River was due to reach capacity.

He said the Labor government's expensive Cross River Rail project – involving construction of a new underground rail tunnel with stations – would not be completed until at least 2020 four years after the capacity bottleneck would emerge.

Mr Seeney repeated Mr Newman's previous comments in December that the LNP would improve signalling systems to ensure trains could run closer together, and would build extra platforms at South Bank and South Brisbane stations to help address looming problems on the network.

Mr Seeney confirmed the LNP would not yet detail its long-term plan for the network, saying the LNP government would examine options in a "measured, well planned" way.

"We need to look at all these options in a much more detailed way than the resources available to an opposition allow you to do," he told brisbanetimes.com.au today.

Mr Seeney said the options could include a metro system, a light rail tunnel, a heavy rail tunnel and another bridge across the river.

He did not think there was currently "a clear option" to tackle the long-term capacity issues but it would "almost certainly" require the construction of a new river crossing.

Mr Seeney insisted the LNP policy was very clear

"If anybody wants our position clarified, I'm happy to do it," he said.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/state-election-2012/lnps-uturn-on-crossriver-rail-20120321-1vj94.htm

When they examine the alternatives it will be clear which way to proceed --> Cross River Rail!

[curator49]

In the meantime more wasted time and expense on sifting through and testing other ideas instead of getting on with a project that was supposed to be finished before 2016 in the first place. What happens when IA comes good with their share of the money? Does the LNP lose that funding by saying "No. We want to re-evaluate the whole project." and then have to start the whole process over again. It will be 2030 before we even look like getting a solution.

[Stillwater]

It will be like the Sunshine Coast Line -- seven or eight reports all say that should be duplicated to Nambour.

[O_128]

What this means is someone read the CRR EIS , studies and heavens forbid the ICRCS, this reads to me that CRR. Is a goer but Newman won't bend the knee and agree to it in election mode, but rather give the CRR team and himself credit in may.

However mr seeny I would like your position clarified

[ozbob]

Media release 21 March 2012

SEQ: LNP policy on Cross River Rail delayed

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org), a web-based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers notes that the LNP has today reversed their plan to detail their policy for Cross River Rail or alternate prior to the election.

Robert Dow, Spokesperson for RAIL Back On Track said:

"This week we asked the LNP to reveal their plans for Cross River Rail, or whatever alternatives to it they had (1). LNP Leader Campbell Newman had indicated a number of times that these plans would be detailed prior to the election. This is now not to be (2)."

"Cross River Rail is a 'ready to proceed' project as assessed by Infrastructure Australia and the Queensland Government has requested funding."

"RAIL Back On Track accepts that in view of this significant achievement by the Cross River Rail project team to get the project to this stage, it is now reasonable for the LNP to delay releasing their plans until they can assess the options in more depth even if it is a broken promise."

"RAIL Back On Track is confident that should the LNP achieve Government, and once they have full briefings and background on Cross River Rail and other options, that they too will support Cross River Rail."

References:

1. SEQ: Mixed signals on Cross River Rail project – time for LNP to reveal its planning http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7895.0

2. LNP U-turns on Trains http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/state-election-2012/lnps-uturn-on-crossriver-rail-20120321-1vj94.html

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[somebody]

It has been mentioned many times now, IA funding is specific for a project. Delaying start date within a few years is unlikely to impact as there are many projects where funding was allocted federally and spent many years later for many reasons. A change in fed policy on IA maybe on exception.

Given the probability of a change in Federal Government this may be a good reason to spend the money without delay.

[ozbob]

From LNP policy costings

Deferral of $35 million in spending for land acquisitions for Brisbane's Cross River Rail project. "We are not convinced about the plan, So we would go back and look at it,'' he said.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/state-election-2012/poll-call-march-22-20120322-1vkxm.html

[Jonas Jade]

Ugh. 

Land acquistions will probably only cost more if they go back in the future to do it. 

[Mr X]

From LNP policy costings

Deferral of $35 million in spending for land acquisitions for Brisbane's Cross River Rail project. "We are not convinced about the plan, So we would go back and look at it,'' he said.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/state-election-2012/poll-call-march-22-20120322-1vkxm.html

Typical!

[colinw]

This is no biggie. Clearly you would defer those acquisitions until (a) the fate of the IA funding submission is known, and (b) the LNP knows whether it intends progressing the project.

[Jonno]

HERE COMES TRANSAPEX PART IV!!!!!! 

[colinw]

The Courier Mail -> LNP will deliver a $524 million surplus 'by 2014' says Tim Nicholls

...

Mr Nicholls said the LNP would defer $35 million in Cross River Rail land acquisitions and go back to the drawing board on the project.

...

[Golliwog]

Ugh. 

Land acquistions will probably only cost more if they go back in the future to do it. 

They probaby have the Traveston dam aquistions fresh in their memory, $400m of waste. I do believe the aquistions are best left to when the project, any project is formly approved to start with no more approvals required ie Feds, state, local, banks whoever needs to say yes does say yes.

Only problem is for those in that area, is that selling their property maybe difficult with the CRR ? over their heads and I've lived through one of these mass aquisitions and fortunately was able to get out early as a tennent. But for my neighbours they said never again wil they hold out for more money or stay. The govt put tennents in the houses they bought out and the place when from 100% safe peaceful rural area into lock up everything as the tennents the govt attracts are bottom of barrell.

So perhaps the govt simply buys properties for now people wish to sell as they choose to move on for what ever reason.

Shane

IIRC if there is a project like CRR in the stage it is currently in, people who are in the corridor can't just sell their house. As they are to be acquired by the government, they either wait for the government to make an offer, or if they have other reason for which they have to move early, they approach the government and something is sorted out. As I understand it they can't sell to a 3rd party.

[#Metro]

Mr Nicholls said the LNP would defer $35 million in Cross River Rail land acquisitions and go back to the drawing board on the project.

Back to the drawing board?

ARE THEY ON CRACK?!?!?!

[Stillwater]

Anyone for shares in the RAILbotLAND Co?  Buy up a land needed for CRR at today's prices, hold out for 300% profit when selling to the government in a couple of years time.   

[Jonno]

You thought we were banging our heads against a Brick Wall with the Labour Govt. Gang Rail and Public Transport is about to go back 15-20 years.  From now on it going to be ROADS ROADS and EVEN MORE ROADS.  TMR will be separated and Main Roads and will gain the ascendency.  If you live near a line on a Main Road's map then say "Goodbye" to your quiet suburb!!!!

[Mr X]

I think CRR has higher chances to progress under Newman than some of the other people who might be leader of the LNP (Jeff Seeney, Lawrence Springborg) as they have no clue at all and wouldn't care about it.

I am hoping that if the LNP pick up 20-30 additional seats in SEQ it will change the balance within the party such that pressure is on Newman to support it.
Going "Back to the drawing board" is a ridiculous option to do at this stage, especially since if IA fund it the state only has to pay $1.5bn or so.