Cross River Rail Project

[Gazza]

So we can get 24tph extra with better signalling

[somebody]

I have a feeling the LNP plan is to change the signalling, rip out seats on the beenleigh line trains, add platforms and that's it.

I was on a 100 series IMU, DS 4 - Door hopping, and it was fairly evident that the theoretical extra standing space that the longitudinal seating provides wasn't utilised in practice.  Perhaps when it gets to armpit sniffer standards.

I HATE longitudinal seating!

[curator49]

Platforms have a minimum width requirement for public safety. I have seen platforms where passengers are requested "Not to proceed past this point" because the platform width is too narrow. The idea of locking up an end car at either or both ends is ludicrous in normal day to day running. I realise that this happens on the short platforms on the Sunshine Coast but I am talking about the Brisbane suburban network. Lengthening some station platforms may seem easy but then the signalling spacings have to be changed amongst other things

Then there is the the fourth platform at Park Road which can't be used because of the gap between the carriage doors and the platform. This isn't the LNP's fault of course just poor planning in the past but it goes to show that building new platforms or extending them isn't as easy as it sounds.

[ozbob]

I am already get flashbacks to the last great policy initiatives from the LNP transport 'advisers' for the last election.  7 car trains, the line from no-where to no-where, and free rail travel before 7am.

All they managed to do was shoot their metaphorical both feet to pieces ....

I am getting excited about the detail of the policies,  do you think we will ever get it though?   

[ozbob]

Typical blog comment at Brisbanetimes

Without doubt the most stupid comment from Campbell Newman to date.

He says:
"But the public don't want us to waste their money. That's what they're crying out for us to stop."

Actually many of us were crying out years ago for Newman to cease wasting ratepayers money on epic failures like Clem7 and soon to be Legacy Way. Hundreds of millions of waste right there.

What does he think will happen when his silly projections about reducing times between trains fails because we will need more trains. This is really stupid stuff.

The only reason Newman now won't commit to CRR is because it would shoot holes through all those similar poorly thought out road projects he has in mind.

Campbell Newman ruined Brisbane's public transport system, wouldn't service the buses, ripped up the bus lanes causing ridiculous delays across the network and generally clogged up the roads around this city.

We have this alternative premier ignoring the best advice of experts who have predicted a crisis for some years now if this most important piece of infrastructure is not built in the next couple of years.

This pattern of arrogant egotistical ignorance of people who actually know about this stuff, is exactly what happened at BCC resulting in the prohibitive waste of public money on those foolish tunnels.

I would rather have Bob Katter as Premier than this idiot who pretends to know what he is doing.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/crossriver-rail-wont--happen-newman-20111206-1oh0g.html

[#Metro]

The fatal flaw with the 'platform policy' is does nothing for the rest of the network. It means a minor increase in frequency would be theoretically possible as trains could alternate from the platforms, similar to how Roma St <-> Central , but we know what happens in theory doesn't always work out as intended.  The problem of the congestion from Roma St through to Bowen Hills remains the same.  It has to be said, an idiotic plan (the platform policy) if there ever was one.

The other things mentioned such as signalling improvements and the like are already being done ...  nothing new there either ...

I am waiting for the next LNP announcement that to fix the rest of the network, a new platform will be constructed at Gailes ..

I think it is meant to be a stop-gap, much like all the bus solutions proposed for Cultural Centre are stop-gaps. I read the MX yesterday and there are all these plans popping up like mushrooms that are UNFUNDED and NEVER WILL BE FUNDED. Something like $50 billion in unfunded projects and we all know about the grand-daddy fantasy of them all - Connecting SEQ - that will require UNPRECEDENTED annual funding (what was it, 2 billion a year for the next 20 years or something ridiculous like that).

These plans are not serious, they are gloss.

The 'paris' metro idea needs to be dumped, that could easily cost as much as CRR and seems to be in there for city ego purposes
rather than decent capacity reasons.

They should be focusing on the core.
Free up capacity on the core railway (CRR) and core busway (the tunnel idea).
Only place for metro is down the busway, if it's not, forget it.

Amazing how both the busway and the railway cores will both block up at about the same time-- perfect storm is coming!

[colinw]

Well done Newman, my LNP vote just vanished.  Its Greens & ALP for me this time.

If this is the best the LNP can do then they do not deserve to win Government.

The major capacity issue facing rail in South East Queensland is the lack of intellectual capacity at the southern end of George St.

[#Metro]

What we have seen in the past few days is the acknowledgement of something very fundamental and serious.

The core section of the busway will run out of capacity.
The core section of the rail network will run out of capacity.

This is why I don't see busway project vs railway project as do others on this forum. BOTH need to be dealt with.

[ozbob]

Interesting poll at Brisbanetimes --> here!

[Gazza]

Quick question for the fact file... What is the TPH limit for the Merivale?

[ozbob]

Unlike the bus solutions - get rid of cars and improve flows,  the platform policy doesn't even work as a stop-gap measure ....  

As you have succinctly pointed out, both major modes - bus and rail,  are about to be capacity gridlocked ...

[colinw]

In my work I have never seen an ATP or CBTC project roll out in under 3 years, and that is mostly in countries without our level of bureaucracy.  Add in the usual studies & roadblocks for doing anything in QLD and it'll more likely be 4 or 5 years. Even they we're very unlikely to go over 24 tph, and the flat junction constraints will remain.

Add to that the likely need to introduce a freight curfew, and the impacts could flow on to the rest of the system.

There's also that damn counter-peak XPT departure to consider for the southside lines.

What Newman is proposing is utterly imbecile.  It won't stave off the problem by more than a few years, and due to the likely implementation time. I predict it will be too little, too late, and we'll be stuck in exactly the same bind once it is done, except with even less wiggle room to adjust timetables, recover from incidents, or run freight.

If this really is the LNP policy then I cannot in good conscience even consider voting for them. I'd rather another 10 years of Bligh/Fraser than this.

[O_128]

well there it is, not voting for the lnp. not delivering CRR also means the ekka and gabba miss out and basically leaves us with 3 min off peak for the foreseeable future

[colinw]

Woolloongabba, Ekka & Park Road re-developments also screwed without rail.

Yeerongpilly TOD left with 2tph train service.

CAMCOS is now impossible, no capacity.

Flagstone is now impossible, no capacity.

Trouts Road corridor is now pointless, nothing to join to unless it does a giant dogleg via Windsor.

This decision affects the whole of SEQ, and if the suburban system maxes out then the rest of the state due to impact on freight traffic.

[Arnz]

Well I guess IMO it's a vote for 4 more years of Bligh's "WORLD CLARSE" bragging then, now that Newman's stance on the CRR is known.

[O_128]

If IA gives CRR the go before the election would he change his stance? or just try and funnel it into the new bus tunnel.

But anyway I think Ill be looking in Melbourne or Sydney for grad jobs now 

[colinw]

I'm already planning on leaving QLD when I next change jobs. This only serves to confirm the decision.

[Stillwater]

We never did get to see the 'what if' analysis that examined CRR and alternatives and from which CRR, presumably, sprang.  Surely the state government didn't just back CRR without looking at alternatives, and are any of them similar to Mr Newman's offerings?  What are the BCRs of those alternatives?  The data must exist to inform the debate.

We might now get to see one of those pre-election stunts -- the Transport Minister putting her departmental staff to work on a quick and nasty analysis of the Newman plan.  During the election campaign, the two Annas then release the 'damning analysis' by 'transport experts' that declare the CanDo Plan a crock of excrement.

[#Metro]

The ICRCS did go through various alignments.
Bus is not a solution because no-one is going to bus it from the GC and terminating and transfer to bus at South Brisbane is also a non-starter (busway at capacity there anyway).

The ICRCS did find that going via Merivale would be possible, but extremely compromised (Convention Centre in the way) and not an ideal alignment (totally miss out on W'Gabba etc).

[colinw]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the ICRCS also consider some kind of tunnel basically under the existing line, and then under the river to Roma St?  I seem to remember something about that.  From memory the study found Woolloongabba & Ekka routing was by far the best option in terms of ability to alleviate capacity problems and also stimulate re-development close to the city and at the southern end of the CBD.  The other proposals simply added more capacity to what we have now, and retained the indirect routing via South Brisbane.

[Gazza]

Just saying it now, but I'd encourage everyone on here to write to the LNP and Scott Emmerson and say how you feel. I have.. Instant feedback it's called.

It at least shows them what people really think, and at the very least, we get hillarious excuses to read in their replies.

[somebody]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Minding gaps will fix train strain: Newman

The double talk in the video is breathtaking.  First he says he supports it, but then makes it clear that he doesn't.  The more he talks, the less likely he looks to become premier.

[colinw]

Hmmm.   How much would a mass mail-out to the electors of Ashgrove cost I wonder?

I'd much rather be dealing with someone like Langbroek post election.  As a Gold Coaster he might have a vague clue about the value of CRR to his local constituency, given how many Gold Coast people ride the trains to Brisbane.

[Derwan]

So we spend hundreds of millions on short-term fixes - only to have to do the long-term fix at some point anyway, at which time it will probably cost $12 billion instead of $8 billion.  Makes perfect sense to me! 

[Stillwater]

What an interesting prospect, colinw -- a weekend 'working bee' of RailBOT members stuffing letterboxes in key electorates.  That's one way of bringing transport to the fore in the current election debate, but somehow I feel that will happen of its own accord now.  Let's hope both political parties sharpen up their transport policies.  ALP needs to swallow a 'get real' dose of salts, as Connecting SEQ 2031 is meaningless without the will and the funding to implement it, while the LNP needs to fill in the gaps in its thinking instead of making one-off announcements about this and that.  Both parties need to bring the pieces of their respective jigsaw together into a believable and coherent transport policy.  If not, letterbox stuffing remains an option.

[colinw]

I hope it becomes an election issue in its own right, but if not then "letterbox stuffing" in some key marginals should be under consideration.

[ozbob]

The LNPs stance is very dumb politics as well.  Bi-partisan support for Cross River Rail would minimise the wedge effects, said so months ago as well.  
If it was me I would say 'support the present moves for CRR, but if it does not come off sooner than later, this is what we will do."  This sort of approach would resonate a lot better with the electorate as it shows they do understand the real need for CRR, but have also prepared a back up plan if it is delayed and so forth.

If you recall Mr Newman did once strongly support CRR, then had the "Metro Moment", but appears to be totally rattled by CRR now.  "It is a top infrastructure project but it won't get built, and we won't build it either"- or words to that effect.

I think they have underestimated the public sentiment re Cross River Rail.  A major policy blunder such as this just means closer scrutiny of everything from here.  History starting to repeat ...

[#Metro]

I hope it becomes an election issue in its own right, but if not then "letterbox stuffing" in some key marginals should be under consideration.

I feel for the resident's of ashgrove. Poor things. Their letterboxes are going to get the equivalent of the Yellow Pages stuffed in them.

Maybe a different approach...

[Mr X]

Where can I see detailed plans on his proposed metro?  

After the latest swing of LNP announcements and the fact that their candidates for my seat of South Brisbane always seem to be the latest goon doing it for a flick (candidate for 2010 Federal election, anyone?), my stance from 2009 has not changed one iota.

[colinw]

I hope it becomes an election issue in its own right, but if not then "letterbox stuffing" in some key marginals should be under consideration.

I feel for the resident's of ashgrove. Poor things. Their letterboxes are going to get the equivalent of the Yellow Pages stuffed in them.

Maybe a different approach...

Well, if the choice is between a stuffed letterbox in Ashgrove and a stuffed transport system in South East Queensland, I know which one I'd prefer. 

[colinw]

Comment of the day on Brisbane Times.  This made me snort coffee out my nose!

As Major General Disaster marches out on parade to inform the troops of his brilliant strategy to wipe out the transport arm of the enemy, one can hear the hootin, tootin', rootin' gunslingers of the NLP whoop whoopee with glee...

"Men I have a plan to comprehensively destroy any capability the Public Transport Patrons Front might have to improve its transport options.

Watch now for a demonstration of how the National Liberation Party will apply maximum thinking power to deny the PTPF any hope of taking this city.

We will move quickly to cut off the enemy's supply lines into the CBD.

We will deny the enemy any funds for increased capacity via a rail tunnel or bridge.

As we so successfully demonstrated during the BCC campaign, we will waste many millions of ratepayer dollars building obsolete car-dependent tunnels to the point of financial collapse, removing any possibility of further spending on silly sustainable public transport, walking and cycling infrastructure.

As you also saw then, we were able to greatly increase traffic congestion by not maintaining buses and ripping up bus lanes which were so efficient at getting the enemy into inner city territory and out again.

Major Nicholls will co-ordinate this excellent scheme financially and Lieutenant Seeny will liaise with our man Rear Admiral Quirk on board the BCC Enterprise.

Major Nicholls: Three cheers for the Major General!
Troops: Hip hip hooray!

Well done men. You may return to your allotted duties. Diiiismiss.
Faaaall out!

Robert | Albion - December 07, 2011, 2:02PM

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/crossriver-rail-wont--happen-newman-20111206-1oh0g.html#ixzz1fowNosJH

[Golliwog]

Comment of the day on Brisbane Times.  This made me snort coffee out my nose!

As Major General Disaster marches out on parade to inform the troops of his brilliant strategy to wipe out the transport arm of the enemy, one can hear the hootin, tootin', rootin' gunslingers of the NLP whoop whoopee with glee...

"Men I have a plan to comprehensively destroy any capability the Public Transport Patrons Front might have to improve its transport options.

Watch now for a demonstration of how the National Liberation Party will apply maximum thinking power to deny the PTPF any hope of taking this city.

We will move quickly to cut off the enemy's supply lines into the CBD.

We will deny the enemy any funds for increased capacity via a rail tunnel or bridge.

As we so successfully demonstrated during the BCC campaign, we will waste many millions of ratepayer dollars building obsolete car-dependent tunnels to the point of financial collapse, removing any possibility of further spending on silly sustainable public transport, walking and cycling infrastructure.

As you also saw then, we were able to greatly increase traffic congestion by not maintaining buses and ripping up bus lanes which were so efficient at getting the enemy into inner city territory and out again.

Major Nicholls will co-ordinate this excellent scheme financially and Lieutenant Seeny will liaise with our man Rear Admiral Quirk on board the BCC Enterprise.

Major Nicholls: Three cheers for the Major General!
Troops: Hip hip hooray!

Well done men. You may return to your allotted duties. Diiiismiss.
Faaaall out!

Robert | Albion - December 07, 2011, 2:02PM

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/crossriver-rail-wont--happen-newman-20111206-1oh0g.html#ixzz1fowNosJH

[#Metro]

Well, if the choice is between a stuffed letterbox in Ashgrove and a stuffed transport system in South East Queensland, I know which one I'd prefer

I think you're missing the point. The residents of Ashgrove are going to be bombarded with crap 24/7.
You put your flyer in there and it will be bin express, along with the 1001 other flyers.

Try a different tack IMHO

[#Metro]

LOL. The Cynic in my suggests an Ashgrove BUZ or busway wull pop up..,

[somebody]

LOL. The Cynic in my suggests an Ashgrove BUZ or busway wull pop up..,

Maybe it will just be planned/promised.  Ashgrove has mediocre PT due to the lack of frequent corridors in this town.

[Mr X]

Put flyers up at bus stops? Though that's preaching to the converted  

Doesn't Ashgrove have BUZ385?

[colinw]

Well, if the choice is between a stuffed letterbox in Ashgrove and a stuffed transport system in South East Queensland, I know which one I'd prefer

I think you're missing the point. The residents of Ashgrove are going to be bombarded with crap 24/7.
You put your flyer in there and it will be bin express, along with the 1001 other flyers.

Try a different tack IMHO

Need some way of reaching the residents in some key marginals, local rag? (But those are News Corp controlled, hardly friendly to our cause).

[somebody]

Doesn't Ashgrove have BUZ385?

Doesn't help Ashgrove the suburb.  The bottom of Waterworks Rd is a fair way from the 385.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/12/campbell-newman-dumps-cross-river-rail.html
QR would like to apologise to passengers who have been standing from Varsity Lakes, this is due to a policy failure by idiotic politicians.

[#Metro]

QR would like to apologise to passengers who have been standing from Varsity Lakes, this is due to a policy failure by idiotic politicians.

What is the greatest source of angst for a commuter:

1. Power Failure
2. Track Failure
3. Police Incident
4. Boom Gate incident
5. Policy Failure