Cross River Rail Project

[ozbob]

The only possible use for the old platforms would be for Tennyson trains, but there are no plans (even in 2031) for any Tennyson passenger services.

There may not be published plans but there certainly is a recognition of Tennyson being used in the future and it is prudent to keep it patent.

[paulg]

There may not be published plans but there certainly is a recognition of Tennyson being used in the future and it is prudent to keep it patent.

Sure, but that doesn't prevent the existing platforms being used for Kuraby trains. The existing track arrangement allows for Kuraby and Tennyson trains to use existing Yeerongpilly platforms, and freight trains to bypass the platforms from either direction. There would be plenty of capacity for Kuraby and Tennyson trains to share those platforms (all Beenleigh and Gold Coast services having moved onto the CRR tracks).

[ozbob]

No issue with that Paul, just pointing out that there is an intention to use Tennyson in the future.  Doing what you suggest makes sense to me!

[O_128]

Further more where do you fit these new platforms? This is almost as stupid as the 7th trailer car last election.

[mufreight]

And is the LNP setting us up for a solution involving a duplicated Merivale Bridge?

But does that really solve anything? There's a merge at the end of the bridge and then the two most congested stations in the network. Doh

Simply moves the choke point from the cross river bridge to Roma Street West and the CBD.    

[somebody]

mu, I actually think ozbob may be on to something.  Perhaps they are thinking of South Brisbane termination, as in days gone by.  Seems pretty bizarre and the busway is in the way on one side so I don't expect this plan to see the light of day.

[Golliwog]

There may not be published plans but there certainly is a recognition of Tennyson being used in the future and it is prudent to keep it patent.

Sure, but that doesn't prevent the existing platforms being used for Kuraby trains. The existing track arrangement allows for Kuraby and Tennyson trains to use existing Yeerongpilly platforms, and freight trains to bypass the platforms from either direction. There would be plenty of capacity for Kuraby and Tennyson trains to share those platforms (all Beenleigh and Gold Coast services having moved onto the CRR tracks).

I asked about it at the consultation. If you were to keep the Kuraby and Tennyson trains using the old platforms then you would need to build the new CRR platforms next to those as there would be a big demand for transfer between CRR and Kuraby services, but the problem with that was the land take from the houses. Thus the shifted station using industrial land. Does make changing between a Tennyson train and any other train a bit unattractive, but it is only 200m or something.

They also pointed out that they had checked and made sure that if needed tracks could come out of CRR and swing across to the Tennyson line, though I very much doubt these would be grade seperated.

[ozbob]

Mr Newman was just on ABC Radio News stating that there are ways to increase the capacity across Merivale bridge without an expensive tunnel.

Bearing in mind the limitations of a couple of sound bytes, it does seem the LNP doesn't really support CRR at all.  They just don't seem to grasp the real limitations or benefits.

I guess the 'Brisbane Metro' will come out of the cage prior to the election, as a vote grabbing hook.  That has as much chance of being built as does CRR by the looks of things.

Time to bring some sanity intro transport planning and look at the monorail option ...  [only joking ..    ]

Melbourne and Sydney will be rather excited at this loss of bipartisan support for CRR.  The Melbourne rail tunnel Footscray to Caulfield is now looking odds on ..

[Golliwog]

If they don't support CRR then the LNP have gone and lost my vote.

[colinw]

+1.  No CRR committment = no vote AND no preference as far as I am concerned. Until such time as Newman commits to CRR and buries this separate subway nonsense, my LNP vote is gone.

Oh good grief, they just don't get it. This is just too pathetic for words. I'd like to see Newman try and run an extra 20 or more trains an hour through a flat junction into the most congested section of track in the city. Actually, no, I wouldn't, because trying to shove too many more trains there would be a f***up that would defy description!

Improving the signalling system might conceivably squeeze another 4 to 8 trains an hour out of the Merivale Bridge if we're lucky, but even that is going to get horrendously expensive and congestion prone as it would need applied to the inner city as well (those trains have to go somewhere).

The same can be said about the "dumb & dumber" solution of duplicating the Merivale Bridge, which would only serve to extend the flat junction conflict to the northern two tracks on the Ipswich Line, thus choking the Ipswich/Springfield to Caboolture/Kippa-Ring corridor to death and undoing the limited sectorisation that currently exists in our system.

The only viable solutions are going to involve a new corridor with two and preferably four tracks, which will separate the system into sectors and avoid flat junction conflicts and congestion where branches come together. That translates to = capacity enhancement on Merivale Bridge just moves the problem around or makes things worse. Thus a new corridor is required, which in 2011 Brisbane means either a tunnel or some very expensive resumption for a surface corridor.

No CRR = no capacity increases to CityTrain beyond current timetables. Which translates to "very little improvement in public transport beyond 2011 levels - EVER".

Leaving Brisbane is looking increasingly viable I'm afraid. This city is choking to death on the ineptitude of its leaders.

Back to my day job now, which involves designing a 30 tph capable CBTC system for a Chinese Metro. Not that either the Government or Opposition have bothered speaking to us or our competitors and tapping the real expertise in urban rail systems that actually exists in Brisbane (even if it has never been applied to a local project due to lack of funding & vision).

[paulg]

There may not be published plans but there certainly is a recognition of Tennyson being used in the future and it is prudent to keep it patent.

Sure, but that doesn't prevent the existing platforms being used for Kuraby trains. The existing track arrangement allows for Kuraby and Tennyson trains to use existing Yeerongpilly platforms, and freight trains to bypass the platforms from either direction. There would be plenty of capacity for Kuraby and Tennyson trains to share those platforms (all Beenleigh and Gold Coast services having moved onto the CRR tracks).

I asked about it at the consultation. If you were to keep the Kuraby and Tennyson trains using the old platforms then you would need to build the new CRR platforms next to those as there would be a big demand for transfer between CRR and Kuraby services, but the problem with that was the land take from the houses. Thus the shifted station using industrial land. Does make changing between a Tennyson train and any other train a bit unattractive, but it is only 200m or something.

They also pointed out that they had checked and made sure that if needed tracks could come out of CRR and swing across to the Tennyson line, though I very much doubt these would be grade seperated.

There is actually room for two CRR platforms on the eastern side of the existing station, without the need for any resumptions at all:



Cheers, Paul

[O_128]

Might be time to see if RBOT can meet with Newman. And ColinW of course the gov won't approach you, Why use existing skills and expertise when you can create your own system with a golden plaque with your name on it. By the time CRR1 opens CRR2 is going to have to be under construction.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I think you'll find that an extra two lines and platform would take up the whole road when you start adding overhead support, balast, drainage, safeworkings for platforms, footpaths, bridges etc.

[dwb]

Is the purpose to have some services terminating at South Brisbane like prior to Merivale Bridge?

Given you could drastically improve pedestrian connection with the city I don't think this would be a problem... but didn't South Brisbane used to have many more tracks where the convention centre now sits for termination?

[colinw]

Is the purpose to have some services terminating at South Brisbane like prior to Merivale Bridge?

Given you could drastically improve pedestrian connection with the city I don't think this would be a problem... but didn't South Brisbane used to have many more tracks where the convention centre now sits for termination?

At its peak South Brisbane had - I think - 5 platforms, plus a small freight yard, plus the adjacent standard gauge "South Brisbane Interstate" station.  The Brisbane Limited used to run from where the Convention Centre now sits.

From skyscrapercity.com:

South Brisbane (3'6" suburban):


South Brisbane Interstate with Brisbane Limited:



Of course, until 1969 there was a tram loop to turn back short working trams right out the front of South Brisbane, so connection through to the city wasn't just by walking.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Is the purpose to have some services terminating at South Brisbane like prior to Merivale Bridge?

Given you could drastically improve pedestrian connection with the city I don't think this would be a problem... but didn't South Brisbane used to have many more tracks where the convention centre now sits for termination?

Oh boy did it.

[dwb]

Of course, until 1969 there was a tram loop to turn back short working trams right out the front of South Brisbane, so connection through to the city wasn't just by walking.

Indeed... although I wasn't around at the time I saw this in some maps from either Wilbur Smith or Briztram plans I once saw.

[colinw]

And ColinW of course the gov won't approach you, Why use existing skills and expertise when you can create your own system with a golden plaque with your name on it. By the time CRR1 opens CRR2 is going to have to be under construction.

Indeed. Between my employer and our competitors, all the major signalling & rail infrastructure companies are represented in Brisbane (or at least on the East Coast). The expertise is there, just waiting to be used.  Did you know that the control centre logic for the KCRC in Hong Kong was developed right here in Brisbane?  The company that did that IS building such a system in Australia - for Melbourne.

[dwb]

And ColinW of course the gov won't approach you, Why use existing skills and expertise when you can create your own system with a golden plaque with your name on it. By the time CRR1 opens CRR2 is going to have to be under construction.

Indeed. Between my employer and our competitors, all the major signalling & rail infrastructure companies are represented in Brisbane (or at least on the East Coast). The expertise is there, just waiting to be used.  Did you know that the control centre logic for the KCRC in Hong Kong was developed right here in Brisbane?  The company that did that IS building such a system in Australia - for Melbourne.

Surely these companies have to tender for work? And could they not have tendered for CRR?

Although, my understanding is that the ToR for CRR EIS had train requirements for use with existing assets/trains/systems?

Surely your company and others would have tendered for NGR stock? Would could have had just a big an impact as CRR? And surely when they go from reference design to construct design the construct firm will be required to put together a capable team... that would include signalling and train control and they could amend the design? No???

And if not, then why didn't those signalling and control companies make submissions when the draft terms of reference for the CRR EIS was released?

[somebody]

I'm fairly sure a NIH culture would apply.

[colinw]

Surely these companies have to tender for work? And could they not have tendered for CRR?

Although, my understanding is that the ToR for CRR EIS had train requirements for use with existing assets/trains/systems?

Surely your company and others would have tendered for NGR stock? Would could have had just a big an impact as CRR? And surely when they go from reference design to construct design the construct firm will be required to put together a capable team... that would include signalling and train control and they could amend the design? No???

And if not, then why didn't those signalling and control companies make submissions when the draft terms of reference for the CRR EIS was released?

Who says we (or the competitors) didn't?  I'm not a party to what our commercial people decide to bid. We have done QR work in the past (including Cab - Beerburrum).

[Stillwater]

I heard Mr Newman's radio interview this afternoon and he said something along the lines that CRR, as proposed, was the outcome of ALP 'dreamers', or something like that.  It would be good to track down his actual words.  

I now have a vision of trains lined up at new platforms at South Brisbane and South Bank, and Roma Street too, waiting to be whisked over the Merivale Bridge in any gap that can be found.  Or do we have to hoof it over the Victoria Bridge as in the old days, after trains from Cleveland, Beenleigh, GC etc terminate at South Brisbane?  I am sure that is not the case, but Mr Newman is going to have to explain exactly what his solution is.

In any event, it is a solution that would involve a whole team of LNP 'dreamers', dreaming up a new cross river strategy, metro or whatever.  Back to Square One.  One person's dreamer is another person's transport strategist.

The game plan here is to have a 'construction ready' project for the feds to fund.  There is not one now, because there is no business case for CRR.  Nor, it would appear, will there be.  We are close enough to an election for the public service to go slow until it sees which party gets into government so things can be sorted out.

In looking to kick around a billion or three for transport infrastructure, the federal government must now look at Brisbane, see the can of worms CRR has become, quietly put the lid back on the box at move onto funding 'shovel ready' projects in Victoria and NSW.  Brisbane will have lost its grab at the money for another five or so years.

[david]

I'm sorry, but the proposal for extra platforms at South Brisbane and South Bank is as ludicrous as the 7th car proposal on trains. There are so many issues that become apparent with this ridiculous idea.

1- If the trains do terminate at South Brisbane, where are they going to go after South Brisbane? Either more conflicting moves to get them back to Kuraby/Beenleigh/Cleveland or wherever to start a new service, OR, as you guessed it, ACROSS THE MERIVALE BRIDGE! Seriously, why waste money on this? Invest in CRR.

2- Where on earth are you going to fit more platforms at South Brisbane, or even South Bank? You can't demolish the South Brisbane station building because it's heritage listed, and on the other side - the Convention Centre. I don't know, maybe they'll be ridiculous enough to demolish that?

3- Sunshine Coast - This will NOT solve any of the issues that the Sunshine Coast line has at the moment, especially with peak frequency. Only CRR will do that.

The ONLY feasible way (that I can think of) that this proposal would work is to make the Merivale Bridge one-way only during peak times, and to start counter-peak services at South Brisbane. But, even then, what do you do with all of those people who regularly catch the train from South Brisbane, into the CBD to transfer to other services? Cultural Centre? Well, that's already way too congested. I'd love to see them trying to manage that congestion when it eventuates.

[somebody]

I'm sorry, but the proposal for extra platforms at South Brisbane and South Bank is as ludicrous as the 7th car proposal on trains. There are so many issues that become apparent with this ridiculous idea.

At first I was thinking that the tracks could go on the east side of the existing tracks.  But if South Brisbane's building is heritage listed, I guess that is ruled out.

I agree.  Who would want to use a train not going in to the city?  Only those actually going to South Bank/Sth Bris.  This is a plan to rewind to the "glory days" of the 1970s and earlier.  Why doesn't he just call for the return of steam trains?

[ozbob]

http://www.signalbox.org/overseas/australia/southbrisbane-s.jpg

Steam suburban service arriving at Platform 3 at South Brisbane

[ozbob]

I first arrived in Queensland at South Brisbane railway station on the Limited ex Sydney.  It was a busy place in those days.  I did quite a few trips eventually on the Limited and the Sunlander up north as well.  The Army used the trains to move the troops around.  For those who never saw South Brisbane Interstate it was a busy place in those days.  The QGR side was fascinating as well, particularly for someone with a rail interest and not used to the 'narrow gauge'.  They still had standard gauge steam shunting the yards at Clapham and Rocklea and so forth as well.

[dwb]

Who would want to use a train not going in to the city?  Only those actually going to South Bank/Sth Bris.

And who said you had a CBD commuter bias?

Actually South Brisbane or just as convenient as Central or Roma to various parts of the city...

[O_128]

Who would want to use a train not going in to the city?  Only those actually going to South Bank/Sth Bris.

And who said you had a CBD commuter bias?

Actually South Brisbane or just as convenient as Central or Roma to various parts of the city...

Newman is living in a fantasia where he is in actual fact mayor of london, as such he has about 10 terminating stations at his disposal =)

[Jonno]

Newman believes the answer is "More Roads" and public transport is just an opportunity to make noise and attack opponents. He will never be a public transport believer!!!

[Gazza]

Would doing this work, as a cheaper option?


Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

-Quad Park Road to South Brisbane.

-Duplicate Merivale Bridge.

-Build track over this street: http://maps.google.com.au/maps?ll=-27.467751,153.012139&spn=0.00098,0.002064&t=h&z=20&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=-27.467617,153.012285&panoid=v9D564xEcxb0u2EC520uMg&cbp=12,190.61,,0,-8.71

-Knock down this office block
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Roma+Street,+Brisbane,+Queensland&hl=en&ll=-27.467448,153.012061&spn=0.00098,0.002064&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=62.771612,135.263672&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=-27.467391,153.012031&panoid=ZHosKB8VfuNwC8VDhy3J6g&cbp=12,51.9,,0,-18.36
(Remember, they are planning on knocking down a Hotel in the CBD for a station, so why not here)

-Slew tracks between Milton and Roma St, so that.....Arrgh...Cant remember which one is sub and which one is main?....Anyway the easiest way to sum it up is that everything moves across by 2.

"Express" tracks from Ipswich divert off into a tunnel under the barracks, underground platform at Roma St (Just shallow level), then tunnel under Spring hill to link up with the Exibition loop. Total tunnel about 2km.

The current Merivale bridge tracks get disconnected from the Ipswich tracks, and become their independent own track pair.

The new tracks from South Bris have a flat junction with the old express tracks from Roma street.

This actually means there would be a short section of track that becomes redundant between Milton and the Junction.

Pics explain it better:



Yeah I know you lose the full advantages of the current CRR, with Albert St etc etc, and a big one is Ipswich Pax having to change to reach Central. But capacity wise, would this be the same?

[Stillwater]

Some very clever wording here, methinks:

From the LNP website:

Shadow Transport Minister Scott Emerson said while the inept Labor government was running away from the crisis, the LNP's infrastructure paper outlined a plan to upgrade the South Brisbane and Southbank railway stations to provide extra platform capacity and more operational flexibility.

"This would provide up to an extra five years capacity over the Merivale Bridge and give us valuable time to put longer-term solutions in place," Mr Emerson said.

Mr Emerson welcomed the support of RAIL Back On Track spokesman Robert Dow who said: "Cross River Rail will take some time so it is pleasing to note some effort has been made to propose steps to maximise the utility of existing infrastructure with incremental improvements. We have long suggested such steps will be necessary."

I liked this quote too: "A CanDo LNP Government will plan for the future not live for the moment. Campbell Newman is an engineer, one thing he really knows how to do is build infrastructure."

Full reference here: http://lnp.org.au/news/transport/lnps-answer-to-looming-inner-city-rail-crisis

[ozbob]

Proposals are only just that.  Incremental steps is something we have discussed endlessly here  ....  LOL.   It is a discussion paper and is such is welcome, even if some of the proposals are off the rails .. LOL.  It can only help to focus and identify the core issues.  CRR hasn't had a lot of publicity of late, but thanks to the LNP it was in overdrive yesterday and that is a good thing!

In fact, I would not be surprised if Queensland Rail and others have been working on ways to extract that little bit more capacity out of the existing system pending CRR completion already.  They just haven't gone public (as yet) with their plans ...

[ozbob]

2nd September 2011

Re: Queensland:  LNP Discussion paper on infrastructure welcome

Greetings,

RAIL Back On Track is a strong supporter of the Cross River Rail as evidenced by media yesterday.

We do support the LNP coming up with proposals to  increase the utility of the existing network though.  The completion date for CRR is now at the earliest 2020, which is well past the attainment of max peak passenger loads.  The LNP proposal to expand both South Brisbane and SouthBank stations however needs detailed clarification.  It does nothing to really address the real choke points on the rail network so detail is needed.

Apart from infrastructure tweak initiatives, other actions such as an improved go card fare structure e.g. increase off peak discount to at least 30% and a better frequent journey discount, together with improvements in out of peak and counter peak frequency, will drive a mode shift out of peak and better utilise the public transport asset around the clock.  Addressing the looming public transport and road system meltdown requires actions now.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

================================

Media release 25 April 2011  re-released 2 September 2011

SEQ: Cross River Rail should be expedited

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers calls for the Cross River Rail project to be implemented as soon as possible.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Cross River Rail has a number of advantages besides the obvious ones of peak rail capacity.  It is obvious that there is difficulty in writing a timetable for the north-side, with the timetable starting 6th of June having trains to Caboolture and Nambour all stopping to Northgate, which is clearly undesirable.  Speeding these trains up by allowing the all stopping service to be provided by other trains such as for the Shorncliffe line would become easier with Cross River Rail."

"However the major advantages come on the south side.  Currently it is a 12 minute run from Park Rd to Central, a distance as the crow flies of little over 3km.  If Cross River Rail is even moderately well executed, it will improve on this enormously as well as avoiding the slow turn from Dutton Park.  The Albert Street station will also be a significant benefit in that the walking time for most city destinations will be significantly reduced as compared to the existing location of Central."

"It is reported (1) that current plans involve the Kuraby trains running via South Brisbane while Beenleigh and Gold Coast trains run via Cross River Rail.  This plan reduces the advantages of the Cross River Rail project.  An alternative would be that the Kuraby trains run via Cross River Rail with Corinda via South Brisbane running every 15 minutes to provide service on the bypassed stations and increase the network effect of the system.  Such a plan would also allow all trains through Kuraby to leave from the Albert St station rather than dividing the effective frequency."

"All of this ignores that the Cross River Rail project is required for capacity reasons, and delaying it will result in a calamitous congested network in peak later in a few more years.  This would be further exacerbated by the planned Kippa-Ring line."

"These advantages should be sufficient reason to reverse the decision to delay the Cross River Rail, and implement it as soon as possible, rather than as late as possible.  RAIL Back On Track believes Cross River Rail can be completed for less than the $8 billion originally forecast even with a quadruple track capability on the Roma St to Woolloongabba section. In any case, competition for Infrastructure Australia funding will now be more intense considering both Melbourne and Sydney have major rail projects in train.  Any further delays with moving ahead with Cross River Rail could mean missing the train at Albert Street Station and gridlock for the next 50 years."

Reference:

1. http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2010/11/cross-river-rail-service-forecast.html

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

On 1/09/2011 10:15 AM, RAIL Back On Track Admin wrote:

Media release 1 September 2011

Queensland:  LNP Discussion paper on infrastructure welcome

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has welcomed commitments to rail, public and active transport as indicated in the discussion paper 'Queensland's Future Together' released today (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"There is a need to address inner city rail capacity constraints.  Cross River Rail will take some time so it is pleasing to note some effort has been made to propose steps to maximise the utility of existing infrastructure with incremental improvements.  We have long suggested such steps will be necessary."

"Commitments to the broad thrust of other rail and public and active transport related projects is welcome.  But promises do need to be turned into reality.  At least for now, a basis for further discussion and wider community input is in place and this will assist in driving improved policy outcomes."

1. http://candoqld.com.au/policies/the-cando-lnp-building-queenslands-future-together-discussion-paper

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail click here!


http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2011/09/01/1226127/629502-campbell-newman.jpg

LNP leader Campbell Newman sends contradictory messages on $8 billion Cross River Rail plan

   Steven Wardill
   From: The Courier-Mail
   September 02, 2011 12:00AM

CAMPBELL Newman has dug a hole for the Liberal Nationals over whether he would build a crucial project to ease inner-Brisbane rail congestion.

The LNP leader yesterday initially indicated the LNP would build the $8 billion project, then said he wouldn't, before finally saying he didn't want to pre-empt his own decision.

The former Brisbane lord mayor created the Cross River Rail conundrum as he released the LNP's infrastructure blueprint. The plan is equally contradictory, with one section implying the project was a priority while a later part commits the party to other projects.

A large swathe of the LNP's infrastructure discussion paper was the wishlist recently compiled by the Southeast Queensland Mayors.

It prompted Treasurer Andrew Fraser to condemn the LNP plan as "late, unfunded and plagiarised".

Asked about Cross River Rail following the release of the infrastructure discussion paper, Mr Newman yesterday initially said he was "totally supportive" of a project to fix inner-city rail congestion.

"The current project is the work of schemers and dreamers in the Labor Government who have had six years already to deliver this project," he said. "We will make it happen is my point today."

However, when pressed on the issue Mr Newman said the LNP would come up with an alternative at some stage.

"I am not going to pre-empt our solution," he said. "But the point is we will deal with it."

Under the heading "critical priority projects", the discussion paper states work on the Cross River Rail would "begin immediately".

But the project has not even been included this year as a priority in the Southeast Queensland Mayors' submission which makes up more than half the LNP's discussion paper.

Mr Fraser said Mr Newman had been a "financial disaster" for the council and the infrastructure plan showed the LNP had no idea how to fund its own priorities.

"If Campbell Newman handed this in at uni he'd be failed and expelled for plagiarising half the document," he said.

Opposition transport spokesman Scott Emerson was forced to clarify, saying the LNP would upgrade the Southbank and South Brisbane stations initially.

He said this would improve capacity beyond when the only link into the city from the south, the Merivale Bridge, reached capacity in 2016.

[O_128]

Half the issue is is that no one wants a new Merivale bridge for a variety of reasons.

1. terrible alignment
2. critical parts of the city miss new stations
3. will keep pushing the problem back,
4. won't septuplication be required to bowen hills which would be unbelievably expensive

Considering CRR is supposed to begin in 2013 then that will give campbell about 6 months to make a decision if voted in.

[somebody]

I wonder if Campbell Newman has just lost the election.

[curator49]

I thought he was a sure thing but not now. Considering he is an engineer, he has no vision. The LNP doesn't seem to have any policies at all and with only about 6 months to go its about time they started to "flesh out" a vision for Queensland. How to lose an election that should be almost unlosable.

His stuttering on this is incomprehensible - yes, no, maybe, qualified yes, no. How hopeless can you get.

Bet he opts for more road tunnels.

If he staggers along like this on this and other issues he will lose my vote.

[Gazza]

Agreed... He's fumbled and proposed a stop gap bandaid solution, and yet another study.

The vote winner would have been to retain the project, just fast track it to be ready in 2016.

[O_128]

Agreed... He's fumbled and proposed a stop gap bandaid solution, and yet another study.

The vote winner would have been to retain the project, just fast track it to be ready in 2016.

Fast tracking it would mean construction to start next year, the earliest this would get off the ground is mid 2013 so anywhere between late 2016 and late 2017 is possible depending if they use 2 or 4 boring machines.

[mufreight]

Agreed... He's fumbled and proposed a stop gap bandaid solution, and yet another study.

The vote winner would have been to retain the project, just fast track it to be ready in 2016.

Fast tracking it would mean construction to start next year, the earliest this would get off the ground is mid 2013 so anywhere between late 2016 and late 2017 is possible depending if they use 2 or 4 boring machines.

Lets make a couple of assumptions here.
1. The LNP wins the election in March, becoming more and more doubtful with the inane espousals from a non elected leader who aspires to be Premier.
2.  The LNP comes to its senses and realises that the politicial, economic and social costs of not constructing are greater than the cost of the interest on borrowed money to commence construction.
3.  Having come to that realisation actual shovel in the ground construction is commenced by June 2013, tunnel portals and station excavations with tunnel boring machines ordered or possibly sourced from some other tunnel project it would be possible to have the line completed and in service by late 2015.
4.  The construction of the CRR with the stations at Wooloongabba and Alice Street will greatly relieve the presently increasing loadings on both the bus services and reduce the numbers of private cars using the existing at capacity road system to access the CBD with substantial ecenomic and environmental impacts.

Is it likely to happen, judging by the recent espousals of the LNP transport spokesperson Mr Emerson MP and the unelected LNP leader Mr Newman on the subject, probably not if Mr Newman attains the Premiership.  Should the LNP win the election despite and without Mr Newman if wiser heads withing the LNP prevail possibly.