Cross River Rail Project

[Zoiks]

Im sorry.. Can Do would be just as likely to pull up the rail network and replace it with a new freeway.

[Golliwog]

I'm not going to comment too much until the LNP actually releases some policies, but so far the evidence is against them on the transport front.

[Stillwater]

I'll venture a comment.  The LNP lose credibility because they do not have a policy.  They are fast running out of time to develop one.  Consequently, the 'policy' is likely to be a list of projects in key seats.  Hollow rhetoric is making do as policy in the meantime.

[Golliwog]

I'll venture a comment.  The LNP lose credibility because they do not have a policy.  They are fast running out of time to develop one.  Consequently, the 'policy' is likely to be a list of projects in key seats.  Hollow rhetoric is making do as policy in the meantime.

My sentiments exactly. Still, they're a bit better (in my opinion anyway) than the Federal Opposition, whos only position at the moment appears to be "We're not going to do what Labor is doing, but we're not going to elaborate on what we'll do instead, just know that it will be better."

[#Metro]

I have a sneaking suspicion the LNP might be good for PT.
Remember the Sydney and Victorian elections were elections where red team was booted out by blue team.

The current administration's record on PT is actually quite good, as much as people may want to disagree. They managed to perform integration of entire regions, set up a PT authority, get Go Card in, integrate ticketing and fares, provide funds for overhauls of the bus network so a lot has happened. This is what is different about QLD when you compare with VIC and NSW.

So if the blue team think this election is going to land from heaven on a silver platter and open like a waiter
opens a dish for a banquet, blue team have another thing coming! Unlike Victoria and NSW, the extensions and integrated PT authority have already been set up and SEQ 2031 is going to defuse and thwart any infrastructure expansionist plans (the public mind easily confuses extensions in coverage with increases in mobility).

However, Campbell Newman can really get things moving I think if he applies himself to something sensible. Metro in the CBD is NOT going to do much and will take forever to deliver and cost the Earth as it is currently conceived and the inner suburbs are probably going to vote green team or red team anyway-- its further out you need votes IMHO. (Feeder and transfer model with high frequency in the suburbs anyone?)

So I think what the trick here might be is SERVICE CHARACTERISTICS (What mobility means http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5958.0) like higher off-peak train frequency, train upgrade zones, more BUZ routes, moving the QR train system to be like a metro. That last one would be a real election winner I would think.

So I think the LNP is just being quiet at the moment. You aren't going to give your opposing team your election policies until there actually is an election. Sunshine Coast and stub CAMCOS might well be in there is my hunch too...

[Gazza]

Sunshine Coast and stub CAMCOS might well be in there is my hunch too...

Would certainly fit with Campbells rhetoric of the gov't being too Brisbane focused.

[colinw]

I'm reserving judgment until I see policies.  In reality, both sides in QLD have reasonably good records for public transport infrastructure delivery, and lousy records when it comes to public transport service delivery. End result is loads of concrete, constant extension of the suburban rail system over the last 30 years, but very little change in the way the system has run.

In the past, change of Government has not really made much difference to public transport here, as the policies have been close to indistinguishable.

[SteelPan]

Im sorry.. Can Do would be just as likely to pull up the rail network and replace it with a new freeway.

With all due respect, that is clearly a ridiculous claim to make!  Newman has clearly stated he sees rail as playing a very significant part in Qld's future, transit particularly in the SE Cnr.

The truth is, from the late 80's, all the 90's and the first decade of the the 21stC little was done to seriously advance our rail system and now the backlog is a killer!

[Zoiks]

It was clearly an exaggeration.
Its one thing to say something. Its another to actually do something. With regards to transport Newman will be remembered by me as the man who:
Built road tunnel after road tunnel putting the council in debt to do so.
Wants to build a huge road over the river at Hamilton
Scrapped bus lanes
Wants to scrap CRR.

[Gazza]

Wants to scrap CRR.

To be fair, If we got his metro instead it wouldn't be a total loss, even if it's not quite what we need    

He's obviously gotta come to his senses though, since the problem isn't going away...We'll get CRR eventually.

[colinw]

Brisbane Times -> click here

Analyst says Gabba highrises is a pipe dream

The development of three residential highrises in the inner-city suburb of Woolloongabba will remain a pipe dream for at least five years, a leading property analyst says.

Michael Matusik said the proposal for three towers of 20, 25 and 30 storeys behind the Chalk Hotel on Stanley Street would fail in the current market, despite the state government's South East Regional Plan, which prescribes infill, high-density development for the area.

"It doesn't matter what the State Government wants, what matters foremost and utmost is what the market wants," he said.

Mr Matusik said a development of this scale - 502 units - would fail to secure the pre-sales necessary to cement crucial financial backing.

"I can't see how the market is going to rush at this," he said. "There is virtually no demand for apartment stock at the moment."

...

[O_128]

Brisbane Times -> click here

Analyst says Gabba highrises is a pipe dream

The development of three residential highrises in the inner-city suburb of Woolloongabba will remain a pipe dream for at least five years, a leading property analyst says.

Michael Matusik said the proposal for three towers of 20, 25 and 30 storeys behind the Chalk Hotel on Stanley Street would fail in the current market, despite the state government's South East Regional Plan, which prescribes infill, high-density development for the area.

"It doesn't matter what the State Government wants, what matters foremost and utmost is what the market wants," he said.

Mr Matusik said a development of this scale - 502 units - would fail to secure the pre-sales necessary to cement crucial financial backing.

"I can't see how the market is going to rush at this," he said. "

...

There is virtually no demand for apartment stock at the moment."

How come the gabba is virtually a gigantic construction zone?

Why are there 3 20 story buildings going up in the valley?
Why is there a 30 story building under construction at bowen hills?
Why are there thousands of apartments under construction around the city?

There is a massive pent up demand for inner city living.

[SurfRail]

The market is going to be considerably undersupplied in a few years time thanks to the waning availability of credit for developers to do their thing. 

I act for a number of developers, including one who is putting up several projects in the Valley, and there is a reason their selling agents are talking up proximity to CityGlider, Bowen Hills Station etc - these are going to be must haves.

[#Metro]

How come the gabba is virtually a gigantic construction zone?

Why are there 3 20 story buildings going up in the valley?
Why is there a 30 story building under construction at bowen hills?
Why are there thousands of apartments under construction around the city?

There is a massive pent up demand for inner city living.

I thought they were the Clem 7 and Airport Link smokestacks disguised as buildings... 

[colinw]

This development needs a full-time railway station ...

Brisbane Times -> Showgrounds makeover unveiled

The RNA has secured a $65 million loan from Queensland Treasury Corporation to begin the 15-year transformation of Brisbane's historic RNA Showgrounds into a modern city centre.

The announcement comes almost a year after Lend Lease won the contract to carry out the $2.9 billion redevelopment of one of Brisbane's most sensitive sites.

The project has been pitched as Brisbane's next fashion, lifestyle and cultural centre, and now the talking is over and work is underway.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/showgrounds-makeover-unveiled-20110609-1fv2t.html#ixzz1OpRtK3rb

[Stillwater]

The rollout of the smartcard drivers licence is worrying in respect of processes with the Department of Transport and Main Roads that are followed to assess the CRR project.

It is about time Queensland got these licences to prevent identity fraud.  The current model looks like something your mum can make up using the same vacuum seal device she uses to store leftovers in the fridge.

In respect of the smartcard licence, the Auditor-General found the implementation was more than 2 years overdue and had more than doubled in cost.

The AG also found that:

The business case was not updated after 2006 and did not appear to have been available to the staff involved in the project.  The opportunities for benefits were identified well before any detailed analysis and design of the technology required for their delivery was undertaken.  In addition, opportunities for benefits were not subject to scrutiny or assessment by the third parties required to use the solutions to achieve those benefits.

Let's hope those preparing the CRR business case do not fall into the same traps, and let's hope the type of problems encountered with the licence rollout are isolated within the department.

Is not the CRR business case now due in August?

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/smartcard-planning-not-so-smart-auditor-20110621-1gcyd.html#ixzz1PtORAc59

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail click here!

Glossy plans but Brisbane's cross-river rail link in doubt

Glossy plans but Brisbane's cross-river rail link in doubt

    Robert MacDonald
    From: The Courier-Mail
    July 13, 2011 12:00AM

THE timing of Brisbane's crucial cross river rail link remains uncertain despite the State Government's release of a glossy 96-page Queensland infrastructure plan for the next 20 years.

Barely two years ago, Premier Anna Bligh said modelling showed a second rail bridge was "desperately needed" by 2016.

The document, released on Tuesday,  made no reference to a possible construction timetable beyond the phrase "medium to longer term". It also classified the ambitious scheme as still being in the "pre-project" phase.

Ms Bligh announced in late January the Government was delaying work on the project, originally slated to start in 2013, by at least two years to help pay for post-flood and Cyclone Yasi reconstruction.

Since then, the Government has failed in a bid to win funding support for the $9 billion project from the Federal Government's Infrastructure Australia, which last month said more work needed to be done before it could recommend "ready to proceed" status.

The cross river link is just one of billions of dollars worth of unfunded projects in the plan - among them the long-mooted Eastern Busway extension, which the Government admits it cannot fund on its own.

"The government is committed to maintaining a strong infrastructure program," the plan says.

"However, the reality is that government only has limited resources and must ensure funding is directed to where it is most needed.

"Encouraging and expanding the private sector investment in infrastructure is essential."

The Government also released its regionalisation strategy and a $2 billion Bruce Highway upgrade strategy, which it will use to underpin a statewide community consultation program to run until September.

Opposition Leader Jeff Seeney said the Government was only acting on the Bruce Highway now because an election was in the wind.

"Labor has had 20 years to act on this and all Queenslanders have got is words and more words," he said.

Local Government Association of Queensland chief executive Greg Hallam congratulated the Government for being the first in Australian to have a state-wide infrastructure plan.

"But to not include local government infrastructure defies belief," he said.

He described the new regionalisation strategy as "very thin, given they had a couple of hundred public servants working on it".

[Derwan]

[Fares_Fair]

 
very good.
you need to add the dates to the headstone ... born ____ died ____
followed by a suitable epitaph.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Gazza]

Was never born though 

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Underground rail's flood flaws addressed

Underground rail's flood flaws addressed
Tony Moore
August 30, 2011 - 3:00AM

Major changes have been made to the Cross River Rail project after January's floods revealed problems with the underground rail plan.

In the draft environmental impact statement to be announced this morning, major changes have been made at Fairfield and Tennyson.

Both suburbs were extensively flooded in January.

In April and May, the brisbanetimes.com.au revealed sections of the project at Fairfield were metres under water and without plans for floodgates.

In April, Tennyson councillor Nicole Johnston said the main southern evacuation route from Brisbane's proposed underground rail project was submerged by 10 metres.

It did not have protective floodgates.

That has been remedied in the draft environmental impact statement being released this morning, according to Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk.

The first concept was released in September 2010.

The location of the southern tunnel of the project has also been shifted 110 metres south, which may save some of the 66 homes that were to be resumed.

Major changes include:

- incorporating floodgates at the southern portal to negate the need for a separate floodgate at Yeronga;

- moving the southern portal about 110 metres south in Yeerongpilly;

- moving the new Yeerongpilly Station about 250 metres further south to industrial land near Station Road; and

- moving the ventilation and emergency access building 500 metres further south to higher land in Fairfield.

Ms Palaszczuk said the changes reflected the impact of the floods.

"We took public feedback, impact assessment, further engineering and the January 2011 floods into consideration and made changes to the reference design," she said.

Ms Palaszczuk said the changes prompted the second chance for people to have a say on the project, funded by the federal government.

"We've finished key changes to the reference design and the coordinator-general Keith Davies has now approved the release of the EIS for public review and comment," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"This EIS outlines the project's impacts, and how these could be avoided, mitigated or managed and I encourage the community to have its say."

Shifting the future station further south is expected to satisfy many of the local community groups who last year had suggested better use be made of industrial land south of the Yeerongpilly station.

Cross River Rail will allow 96 more trains from the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast and outer Brisbane suburbs to come into the CBD each weekday in the two-hour morning peak.

Mr Davies said public submissions can be made until October 21.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/underground-rails-flood-flaws-addressed-20110829-1jibe.html

[curator49]

But what does this really mean? If they move Yeerongpilly station 250 metres south then it starts to get awfully close to Moorooka station. Would they combine the two stations and make one? Moorooka is currently ideally suited for access to bus routes along Ipswich Road but there is no public parking and side streets are choked with commuters parking their cars all day.

I presume because of the flooding around Tennyson that the proposed TOD in the area could be now "dead". If it is still to go ahead what about public transport for those people as isn't this what the TOD projects are supposed to be all about? Also what about people going to the tennis centre. The present (and proposed) Yeerongpilly station was suitably located for both the TOD and the tennis centre.

With this new proposal to extend the underground line further towards Moorooka (by 110 metres?) would it be still possible to provide a station at Yeerongpilly - underground (?) or surface (?) but not make it as large a complex (taking up more private housing) as originally envisaged and perhaps making Moorooka station the larger station complex serving bus routes along both Ipswich Road and Fairfield Road as well as providing park'n'ride using part of Clapham rail yards. This station will service rail staff employed at the proposed electric train depot in Clapham yards.

Actually, I think the flood issue is an excuse to move the tunnel portal further away from private housing because of the protests from local private householders. I would not like my house and land resumed either and would need to receive fair and adequate compensation.

At least it appears Cross River Rail is not yet dead. It remains to be seen what will happen if "Can Do" gets in. It will probably be made a road tunnel instead. 

[somebody]

I think this change is significant, not because it moves the station closer to Moorooka, but because it wouldn't be possible to access Tennyson from the new station.  Let's hope they leave the existing platform in place, even if it means a walk to transfer between the CRR and South Bank lines.

[Golliwog]

I went to the consultation in the Queen St mall earlier (its on the stage outside Myers until 2pm - if you're quick).

I asked about the moving of Y'pilly. They said that the existing platforms would remain so QR can use them if they want/need to (Tennyson trains were mentioned) as well as this, they had made sure there was enough room for tracks from Tennyson to get across into the tunnel. The plan is to keep the existing new bridge that goes across Fairfield Rd in its current location connected via path to the new station location.

As for the NW link, I asked about this and they pointed out on the design that at the northern tunnel mouth they have incorporated splays to allow for a grade separated junction at the tunnel mouth, but it is not part of the CRR project.

The discussion about freight also implied that freight would have basically sole access to the dual gauge line from Salisbury, and they seemed to be showing a freight passing loop around Y'pilly.

When asked about long term capacity constraints post-CRR their main concern was the NCL and thus the NW line, but also mentioned the metro plans and CRR 2 from the west.

[SurfRail]

One effect of the new track configuration appears to be that Kuraby services will not be able to enter the tunnel unless Moorooka is bypassed.  The CRR platforms will now be the western island at Yeerongpilly and the CRR tracks will weave around the new depot at Clapham.  The eastern island leads to Moorooka.

[somebody]

One effect of the new track configuration appears to be that Kuraby services will not be able to enter the tunnel unless Moorooka is bypassed.  The CRR platforms will now be the western island at Yeerongpilly and the CRR tracks will weave around the new depot at Clapham.  The eastern island leads to Moorooka.

Please no.

[SurfRail]

One effect of the new track configuration appears to be that Kuraby services will not be able to enter the tunnel unless Moorooka is bypassed.  The CRR platforms will now be the western island at Yeerongpilly and the CRR tracks will weave around the new depot at Clapham.  The eastern island leads to Moorooka.

Please no.

Well, it's one way of increasing the number of transfers made on the system...

[O_128]

After the floods they said CRR was not affected or wouldn't be by flooding, this is merely to appease the people at yerongpilly.

[ozbob]

Cross River Rail EIS click here!

[ozbob]

Transport and Multicultural Affairs
The Honourable Annastacia Palaszczuk
30/08/2011

Have your say on Cross River Rail EIS

Public feedback is now being sought on the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) for the proposed Cross River Rail project.

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said the proposed Cross River Rail would almost double the capacity of the inner city rail network making it one of Queensland's most important infrastructure projects.

"We've finished key changes to the reference design and the Coordinator-General Keith Davies has now approved the release of the EIS for public review and comment," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"This EIS outlines the project's impacts, and how these could be avoided, mitigated or managed and I encourage the community to have its say.

"Detailed planning during the past 18 months confirms we know the design, how to build it, how to operate it and, with the release of the EIS for public comment, how to manage the construction impacts.

"It offers a solution to addressing the inner city capacity constraints of the 300-kilometre South East Queensland rail network, allowing 96 more trains from the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast and outer Brisbane suburbs to come into the CBD each weekday in the two-hour morning peak.

"It will also deliver significant benefits for South East Queensland, including providing a 'turn-up and go' level of service in the inner city and the capacity to move up to120,000 people into the inner city in the two-hour morning peak period - equivalent of a 30-lane motorway."

Ms Palaszczuk said the decision to delay the start of construction by two years because of the flood recovery effort meant the project team could step back and ensure the project would deliver the most benefits with the least amount of impacts.

"We took public feedback, impact assessment, further engineering and the January 2011 floods into consideration and made changes to the reference design," she said.

Changes include:

    Moving the southern tunnel portal about 110 metres further south in Yeerongpilly
    Moving the new Yeerongpilly Station about 250 metres further south to industrial land near Station Road, Yeerongpilly
    Moving the ventilation and emergency access building 500 metres further south to higher land in Fairfield
    Incorporating tunnel floodgates into the southern tunnel portal to negate the need for a separate floodgate building at Yeronga.

Ms Palaszczuk said the design changes had numerous benefits including less community impacts and lower construction costs.

Coordinator-General Keith Davies said the EIS considered a wide range of issues, including:

    preliminary urban and landscape design and construction planning
    land use, planning scheme provisions and urban renewal opportunities
    managing noise, dust, traffic and parking around construction sites
    traffic and transport considerations, including railway operations, pedestrian and cycle access, road network impacts and other public transport
    changes to streets and footpaths around stations
    waste and flood management.

"The EIS incorporates lessons learned from the January floods and improvements to noise, road traffic and air quality management practices from other urban infrastructure projects.

"The release of the EIS is not an approval, rather it gives any interested person or organisation the chance to make a submission on the project," Mr Davies said.

"Submissions on the EIS can be made until 21 October 2011 and will help inform the final decision."

Submissions can be made online via www.getinvolved.qld.gov.au, or by posting or emailing the submission form.

FAST FACTS:

    18km north-south rail line

from Salisbury to Bowen Hills.
10km tunnels
from Yeerongpilly to Victoria Park, including a crossing under the Brisbane River and CBD
4 new underground stations
- Albert Street, Roma Street, Gabba and Boggo Road
2 new surface stations
- Yeerongpilly and Ekka
2 upgraded stations
- Rocklea and Moorooka
$9B-plus in transport, city-building and economic benefits
faster, frequent, reliable train services - 'turn-up and go'
train services in the inner city and a train about every 5 minutes in the peak, about every 10 minutes in the off-peak
capacity to move 120 000 people in the two-hour morning peak
reduce train crowding by more than 50%
4 tunnel boring machines
to construct the majority of the 10 kilometre tunnels
1.4 million
cubic metres of spoil to be excavated
about 5900 direct and indirect jobs

[somebody]

ozbob, unless I'm mistaken so far you haven't said anything either way on the notion of the Beenleigh all stoppers continuing via the Merivale Bridge or using CRR.  What do you think?

[SurfRail]

ozbob, unless I'm mistaken so far you haven't said anything either way on the notion of the Beenleigh all stoppers continuing via the Merivale Bridge or using CRR.  What do you think?

While we're on the subject, I think we should be calling for some rationalisation of stations in the general area.  Rocklea and Salisbury could both be amalgamated into a new station in the vicinity of Beaudesert Road for one - the corridor is nice and straight, the location would allow connections to be made to bus services and running time would improve.

[ozbob]

ozbob, unless I'm mistaken so far you haven't said anything either way on the notion of the Beenleigh all stoppers continuing via the Merivale Bridge or using CRR.  What do you think?

Unless the authorities plan to have regular Tennyson trains I think it is clear what will happen ...

[somebody]

Unless the authorities plan to have regular Tennyson trains I think it is clear what will happen ...

I think the regular Tennyson trains is something we should be lobbying for.  Running every 15 minutes.  They might not have enormous loadings but the network effect of having them seems a big advantage to me.

EDIT: I'm talking post-CRR of course

[ozbob]

We have mentioned Tennyson post CRR before.  I think it might be a little early to be too specific but in general terms is fine.

Post CRR an inner suburban rail loop could also be possible (e.g. Doomben to Doomben via South Brisbane, Tennyson, Milton etc.).

[somebody]

While we're on the subject, I think we should be calling for some rationalisation of stations in the general area.  Rocklea and Salisbury could both be amalgamated into a new station in the vicinity of Beaudesert Road for one - the corridor is nice and straight, the location would allow connections to be made to bus services and running time would improve.

Interesting idea.  I see where you are coming from here.  It would mean the industrial area around Riawena Rd isn't as well served, but that could be a minor limitation.

It would make the most sense if combined with a bus/rail interchange, and the trains went through CRR.

[Golliwog]

After the floods they said CRR was not affected or wouldn't be by flooding, this is merely to appease the people at yerongpilly.

You mean listening to peoples suggestions? At the display today they said they had recieved feedback from the community about using the industrial land a bit further south which is now the case.

There were also a few other changes within some of the stations, mostly minor adjustments to the layout etc.

I'd also say that while they did say the tunnel wouldn't have flooded, it doesn't mean it was the best design. Where the emergency exit was planned to be originally was underwater in January so now they have shifted it to higher ground.

[Golliwog]

One effect of the new track configuration appears to be that Kuraby services will not be able to enter the tunnel unless Moorooka is bypassed.  The CRR platforms will now be the western island at Yeerongpilly and the CRR tracks will weave around the new depot at Clapham.  The eastern island leads to Moorooka.

Please no.

Why do Kuraby services need to use CRR? I thought the point was to have the longer runs use the tunnel, then have a short starter run all stops along the via South Bank route?

[somebody]

Why do Kuraby services need to use CRR? I thought the point was to have the longer runs use the tunnel, then have a short starter run all stops along the via South Bank route?

Because, assuming CRR is executed with a modicum of competence, it should be about 10 minutes faster from Yeerongpilly to the CBD.  Similarly, the walking time is better from Albert St than Central to most of the CBD.  If the Kuraby trains are to be deprived of this benefit, that can only reduce their competitiveness with the car.

Also, if the Beenleigh trains use CRR but the Kuraby trains use Central via South Bank, you have the equivalent of the bus CBD stop ridiculousness on rail to stations from Moorooka to Kuraby.

[Golliwog]

Or something like the expresses on the Ipswich line? Theres nothing stopping them interchanging at Roma St, which when services are coming every 5 minutes, won't be hard. Are you also going to claim that all those coming from Beenleigh/GC are now instantly going to be working near Albert St and Roma St stations? What about those who used to use Central or Fortitude Valley?