Do you suffer from late train services ?

[justanotheruser]

Monday 12th october Ipswich train departing Milton at 2:40pm delayed while waiting for signals at Sherwood and Redbank. Train also delayed at Goodna while waiting for train at Redbank to cross tracks.
Train was total of 22 minutes late.
Interesting note while on this train I saw three city bound services. One at Goodna, one at Redbank and one at Riverview. All had passengers. This would suggest there were major delays earlier to have three city bound services within 10 min of each other.

[Fares_Fair]

late services !!

5:14pm Roma Street to Nambour service was 30 minutes late getting to Palmwoods
on Tuesday 13th October !

It was announced that there were going to be delays due to the extreme weather conditions.

Thank you for the announcements QR - they are appreciated.

Regards,
Fares_Fair

[Fares_Fair]

late services !!

6:27am Nambour to Roma Street service was 12 minutes late getting to Central
on Friday 16th October !

No reason was announced for the delay.

Regards,
Fares_Fair

[justanotheruser]

Monday 19th October caboolture service 15 minutes late departing auchenflower due to technical problems at Wacol. No specifics about what problems were. announcement made by station staff.

[Fares_Fair]

late services !!

5:14pm Roma Street to Nambour service was 38 minutes late getting to Palmwoods
on Monday 26th October !

It was announced after we came to a standstill that there were going to be delays due to
a 'track fault' north of Carseldine.
After some time, we disembarked at Carseldine onto another train and another working track.

Thank you for the announcements QR - they are appreciated.

Incidently, No eRail updates were received for this significant delay.

Regards,
Fares_Fair

[Sunbus610]

Nah, never ever......my chauffeur always picks me up from home on time!!! Oh....sorry....I was just dreaming for a moment there and thought I was a politician

[justanotheruser]

Nah, never ever......my chauffeur always picks me up from home on time!!! Oh....sorry....I was just dreaming for a moment there and thought I was a politician

if we forced pollies to use public transport where possible then maybe we could actually get a 24 hour transport system. After all when the pollies finish at 2 or 3am some days there is no transport to get them home. i think we need to bear that in mind and suggest suitable and real alternatives before calling for their cars to be taken away.

[awotam]

-->  http://www.corporate.qr.com.au/qr_safety/overview/overview.asp

Pardon my ignorance, but after reading this, I still don't have a clue what it means in relation to actual passenger train travel 

[Fares_Fair]

late services !!

6:27am Nambour to Roma Street service was 12 minutes late getting to Central
on Tuesday 3rd November !

Arrived safely at 8:28am.

We were informed (thank you QR) that a unit (viz. train service) had broken down at Central Station and that there was traffic (viz. other trains) ahead of us.

Regards,
Fares_Fair

[p858snake]

2 November 2009 - 1:27PM
The Ferny Grove train departing Beenleigh at 4:29 PM is cancelled due to staff issues. Service to resume by  4:59 PM.  Info: 131230

Not my train personally, but it's interesting as i've never seen Staff Issues listed before......

[Fares_Fair]

late services !!
what an absolute disgrace - the QR network is truly a shambles !
where is the 'so-called' world class system you are creating Ms Bligh ?

6:27am Nambour to Roma Street service was almost 2 hours (114 minutes) late
getting to Central on Wednesday 4th November !

6:09am train cancelled and 6:27am used in it's place,
filled with plenty of long-standing commuters (double entendre pun intended).
Why, because there wasn't a guard available or driver depending on your source of information.

So off the sardines rolled only to be stopped and delayed again at Petrie due to a points failure - ANOTHER points failure - as the third-world standards network so regularly receives.

Arrived at 10:10am. (should have been 8:16am.)

Where are you Ms Nolan and Ms Bligh ?
to harp on about the superb network you have allowed QR to become.

It is truly a disgrace that such frequent and regular and entirely preventable occurrences
bring the North Coast (Sunshine Coast) line to a complete halt.
Our state of Queensland must truly be in a mess.


Regards,
Fares_Fair

p.s.  and no eRail updates whatsoever !!!! totally useless 

[O_128]

Im sure third world rail systems are better than here 

[rob2144]

nolan and blight dont give a sh%t about us, they only care about the gold coast line

[#Metro]

Seems to be a lot of point failures. Are the points fail-safe too?
Or is there a chance that a train can be routed onto the wrong track and cause an accident?

[mufreight]

To answer Tramtrain, in reality point failures very rarely divirt trains on to the wrong track because while
the signaling system is designed to be fail safe, pointwork is fitted with detectors that are supposed to confirm that points are set and locked in the appropriate direction for the passage of the train so that the signalling system interlocking can clear the signals and allow the train to proceed.
BUT because of the mechanical componentry of a set of points a simple thing such as a broken bolt or a loose nut, not to mention an obviously more serious failure such as a broken rail or crossing can cause a derailment.
The traditional approach to ensuring the safety and reliability of the track was that the ganger would walk the section of track that his gang was responsible for and inspect it daily, with centralised track maintemance.
In the name of cost efficiency these visual inspections no longer happen on a daily basis, which has the result that faults are not found now until such time as they result in a failure and what may have been something as simple as tightening a bolt becomes a major fault causing delays for commuters or possibly an incident causing considerable damage and cost.
Cost saving measures relating to the maintenence of the infrastructure frequently result in increased cost as a consequence of a lack on maintenence and would appear to be detrimental to the reliability and possibly the SAFETY of the infrastructure.

[Fares_Fair]

late services !!

6:27am Nambour to Roma Street service was 17 minutes late getting to Central
on Thursday 5th November !

Arrived safely at 8:32am.

We were informed (thank you QR) that there was traffic ahead of us due to a points failure on the Ferny Grove line.


However this now regular and more recent excuse of "points failure" seems to be occurring
in a pattern, or is it just me. Are the lines taking turns at disruptions ?
Is this in any way related to some covert industrial action over the proposed assets sell-off ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair

[ozbob]

Is this in any way related to some covert industrial action over the proposed assets sell-off ?

The thought has occurred to me too but I don't think it is the case.  The failures seem real enough.

[#Metro]

However this now regular and more recent excuse of "points failure" seems to be occurring
in a pattern, or is it just me. Are the lines taking turns at disruptions ?
Is this in any way related to some covert industrial action over the proposed assets sell-off ?

There is no evidence to suggest this is the case. If QR were an aircraft company, it would be investigated.
It may be that the maintainence is not occurring properly or an unusual combination of weather events (storms/water/high heat) are potential (though untested) explanations.

The probability, by chance, that signal and track faults would all suddenly happen in a few short weeks suggest that the problem is systematic and not just one-offs. There must be an investigation to see why this is happening, and soon to uncover the reasons why. Perhaps they have a software bug?

[brismike]

I don't use trains anymore (Unless it is raining in the morning) since the strike that nearly but never happened in August last year. Since then I have ridden my electric Bike/Scooter from Middle Park to the Valley every day. Takes me 50 mins which is about the same time as the train if you take into account the time driving to Darra, finding a park, waiting for the Train, and walking from Valley Station to work etc.

Where I work just about everyone who catches the train today was late for work. Didn't matter what line they came in on. I also noticed trains banked up at Roma St as I zipped past on my bike. They were just sitting there waiting to move. Gee i'm glad I don't have to suffer on them anymore.    (Unless it rains of course )

[pangwen]

I'm currently on the Beenleigh express train - we were delayed for around 10 minutes at Central due to "an incident with a passenger". Not sure what it was, but 4 translink officers walked through the train towards th front.

[pangwen]

Currently on the Beenleigh all stations service - wewere delayed for over 20 minutes at Fortitude Valley due to a signalling failure.

[WTN]

Signalling failure north of Wooloowin.  I was on the Petrie service at about 5pm and the guard advised it over the PA.  We were stuck there for about 15-20 minutes.  Passengers were on mobiles telling others of their delay.

[ozbob]

There was a problem with a computer at Control.  The system was shut down and rebooted.  All signals went red until system was safely restored.  Time out approx. 20 minutes. 

See http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1862.msg16428#msg16428

[O_128]

There was a problem with a computer at Control.  The system was shut down and rebooted.  All signals went red until system was safely restored.  Time out approx. 20 minutes. 

See http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1862.msg16428#msg16428

Surely the trains could have run at 5 km or something

[Fares_Fair]

late services !!

5:14pm Roma Street to Nambour service was 28 minutes late getting to Palmwoods
on Tuesday 10th November !

As anyone from the CBD would be aware, all train services stopped at approx. 5:00pm
due to the reason given above.
Announcements at Central simply claimed that there were signal problems.

Thank you for the announcements QR - they are appreciated.

Incidently, No eRail updates were received for another significant delay.
What is the use of the eRail system if it doesn't get used ?
Did anyone get an eRail sms regarding this latest round of failure ?


Regards,
Fares_Fair

[ozbob]

I can confirm there were no erail alerts (email or SMS) yesterday afternoon.  

I suspect the system is linked to the computer system that failed?

[Fares_Fair]

late services !!

6:27am Nambour to Roma Street service was 8 and 1/2 minutes late getting to Central
on Wednesday 11th November !

Arrived safely at 8:25am.

We were informed (thank you QR) that there was an all-stops service ahead of us, which was to be bypassed, and indeed was.

Thank you Bob for the confirmation on eRail updates.
It does beg the question, where is the redundancy for critical network components
such as the computer system at control ?

What is their disaster recovery plan ? do they have one ?


Regards,
Fares_Fair

[STB]

There is the Regional Control unit at the QR Towers (Central Station), which I suspect can be used in the event of Mayne Control being unusable for a large amount of time.  I think in this case though since it was able to be fixed, it would've been decided not to use that place if that was the case.  It probably also would've required the Regional Control to be put elsewhere and the Surbaban Controllers to be moved over there.

If that's the case, it's easier to reboot the system and wait 20 minutes then to do what I think may happen above.

[mufreight]

Obviously no redundency provisions with backup equipment that can be brought into immediate use, another flaw in the failed do it on the cheap methodology of the current government.

[STB]

So you would prefer a speedy recovery (faster than 20mins) over safety?

[#Metro]

We'll from what I read, SCADA sounds like a complex engineering nightmare.
So Yes, 20 min wait is reasonable.

[STB]

I wouldn't blame the Government over this one, it's a very complex system to restart, it's not like you're turning on a light bulb, and a sudden shutdown like this one doesn't happen everyday.  In fact this is the first time I've heard of something like this happening, in my 15 years of using public transport.

[dwb]

@mufreight

In the name of cost efficiency these visual inspections no longer happen on a daily basis, which has the result that faults are not found now until such time as they result in a failure and what may have been something as simple as tightening a bolt becomes a major fault causing delays for commuters or possibly an incident causing considerable damage and cost.

I believe in London they have some fancy ultrasonic/laser system that they use to tell when the tracks are fatigued... presumably this combined with video and computer processing could ultimately replace the traditional "ganger" you talk of?

[Fares_Fair]

There is the Regional Control unit at the QR Towers (Central Station), which I suspect can be used in the event of Mayne Control being unusable for a large amount of time.  I think in this case though since it was able to be fixed, it would've been decided not to use that place if that was the case.  It probably also would've required the Regional Control to be put elsewhere and the Surbaban (sic)Controllers to be moved over there.

If that's the case, it's easier to reboot the system and wait 20 minutes then to do what I think may happen above.

The purpose of a disaster recovery plan is to ensure the continual operation of the network during a crisis, or the continued running of a business after it.
Clearly there isn't one for the aforementioned one and only controlling computer terminal.
It's called redundancy and it is to precisely prevent this very situation occurring by acting
as a mirror to the system and taking over when the system fails.

All critical infrastructure should have it - it would be reprehensible not to.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Arnz]

Apparently reading over at ATDB that even the "Backup system failed".  Don't quote me on it, I'll take it it with a pinch of salt.

[STB]

There is the Regional Control unit at the QR Towers (Central Station), which I suspect can be used in the event of Mayne Control being unusable for a large amount of time.  I think in this case though since it was able to be fixed, it would've been decided not to use that place if that was the case.  It probably also would've required the Regional Control to be put elsewhere and the Surbaban (sic)Controllers to be moved over there.

If that's the case, it's easier to reboot the system and wait 20 minutes then to do what I think may happen above.

The purpose of a disaster recovery plan is to ensure the continual operation of the network during a crisis, or the continued running of a business after it.
Clearly there isn't one for the aforementioned one and only controlling computer terminal.
It's called redundancy and it is to precisely prevent this very situation occurring by acting
as a mirror to the system and taking over when the system fails.

All critical infrastructure should have it - it would be reprehensible not to.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

So in your mind the only good public transport network is one that is operable 100% (unreasonable and unrealistic) of the time, particularly when you wish to travel, going by your constant posts about late services.

QR would have a disaster recovery plan like any major critical service, part of the plan, before doing anything, would firstly be to make it safe, hence the signals going to red stopping all trains.  They would've known exactly what was going on, with the computer system going down, and the back up from what I've read here and heard elsewhere, so to wait 20mins for the problem to be fixed as has been stated earlier is completely reasonable.  And being a complex system, 20mins is quite an achievement. If it was an derailment, then they would've acted the recovery plan for that purpose.

20 mins of your life is nothing compared to what would happen if they tossed safety into the bin just so you can get home a bit earlier, with the great potential to have a major accident on the way.

[Fares_Fair]

From your constant defense of everything QR Network wise I'd almost think you worked for them,   and my regular posts are here to act as a record of actual time lost, with explanations as to the reasons (if any) given for the delays.

I do not expect 100% but I do expect QR Network to strive as close as possible to it.
They are indeed a very, very far cry from even being close to that !

I believe my statements to be vindicated by fact that the Hon. Rachel Nolan MP, Member for Ipswich and Transport Minister, demanded that QR ensure it doesn't happen again !

Case closed.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[STB]

For the record, I do not defend QR Network all the time, and have and will criticise if neccessary, but I will be constructive and realistic about it.  There are issues that I do indeed have (one of them is the single track, I hate single track, and there shouldn't be a such thing as single track),  but for a a lot of issues, not all of them, I do know the reasons behind it, usually, as I have been exposed and educated in it in the past, and I have seen these guys (Controllers) in action.  From what I've seen it's not an easy job with little thanks in it, they make mistakes (they are human) and stuff happens that may impact on one's travel, but it's not always their fault.

[Fares_Fair]

That's all good, and I agree with you.
We are all human and almost by definition - we make mistakes.

It's never about criticising the people who work behind the scenes and ensure things run smoothly - and we never really hear of the successes or what may have been.

It's about highlighting the systemic failures in a way that both the government and the people entrusted to facilitate them learn and act to prevent re-occurrences where possible.

And for the record, don't be bashful in defending QR Network especially if you see fit
or know the actual circumstances behind the failures.
A robust discussion is always good.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[justanotheruser]

Surely the trains could have run at 5 km or something

I could be wrong but my understanding is that if a train runs a red light there is a safety mechanism to stop it automatically. If this is correct then no the trains could not go at such a slow speed unless the lights were changed to green. If that happened drivers might not be aware in time of the danger. It would be nice as even moving slowly feels better than sitting still but safety reasons prevent this I believe.