On the Buses

[WTN]

Gazza: That's a fantastic video on Brisbane's public transport! Great perspective.

Tramtrain: Buses banked up inbound today on the busway too! My bus lined up beside the Convention Centre (next to the train tracks) and took about 3 cycles to move into Melbourne St. It then took another cycle to clear Grey St. Outbound, there's sometimes a small queue after 6pm, and even after the announcer has finished their shift.

[#Metro]

Tramtrain: Buses banked up inbound today on the busway too! My bus lined up beside the Convention Centre (next to the train tracks) and took about 3 cycles to move into Melbourne St. It then took another cycle to clear Grey St. Outbound, there's sometimes a small queue after 6pm, and even after the announcer has finished their shift.

Yes, I know, I have previously been stuck in busjams at Mater Hill and Buranda (Buranda good grief!).
BRT is good, so good that in fact is is now reaching capacity. Its great that this has been achieved in a relatively short period of time- about 10 years.

Now, we either move on to the next upgrade (superbus?) look at LRT options or metro options for the corridor. There may be scope for terminating buses and feeding them into the CRR, however how does terminating most busway routes at CRR Woolloongabba sit with TL? The decision may not be pretty, but doing nothing is not an option, if nothing is done about it, circumstances will force a decision to be made and then people will ask "why wasn't this dealt with earlier".

Running buses via Captain Cook Bridge is not a panacea either with a bus below ~ 15 seconds at the Wooloongabba corner, how many more routes can fit into there?? It also has reliability and congestion issues the last week or so we have had 2 times where accidents or rain on the SE Freeway caused bankups and traffic congestion all the way around the river to Toowong!

[ozbob]

So is this a topic for just posting general photos etc....?

Don't really want to start a specific topic for this, but here's a vid I did towards the start of the year...Contains a decent amount of bus  :

  thanks for sharing the vid, first class!   

[somebody]

WOW! That is a massive line! Seriously, is that supposed to make do all the way up until 2031 with no changes???

You may have a point there TT.  Cultural Centre AM peak has gone from 179/hour to 203/hour in 3 years or so.  Who knows what it would be in 2031?

[#Metro]

I am surprised that:

Busway stations have not been fare gated like rail stations
The buses do not have all door boarding at busway stations (they should IMHO)
There are only 2 super buses going around, surely there should be more by now

[Golliwog]

Fare gating busway stations has been discussed before. The issue, as I recall, was having one set of rules for catching a bus on the busway and another for off the busway. What happens for a route like the 209, which is half on half off the busway? The programming side of things could also be interesting for those sorts of arrangements. What happens if I touch on at the platform reader, then simply due to habit touch on when I hop on my bus?

Both door boarding: again, this has been discussed before. The issue is the size of the rear doors and problems with having people try and get on and off through the same door. Inside the bus they already have signs encouraging everyone to exit via the rear door. Yes City glider has both door boarding, but IIRC they are planning on getting buses with full size rear doors to take over that route too. Theres little point in being able to get on at the back door if by the time you've waited for everyone getting off you could be on and seated if you used the front door.

Not sure about the super buses. How long ago did they get those first 2? And which super buses are we talking about? I believe there have been a few suggestions. Correct me if I'm wrong but these are the two articulated ones with 3 doors? Or was it just the extra long non-artic ones?

[#Metro]

Sigh, its too hard, let's just let the busway overload and then think about options when crisis hits.  

[O_128]

Sigh, its too hard, let's just let the busway overload and then think about options when crisis hits.  

i agree

[Golliwog]

Well don't they already make it so that you can't buy tickets from a bus driver during peak at the central busway stations? So passengers getting on already either show a ticket or touch their go card. Not having to do either of those is hardly going to solve the problem.

I never said playing with how the buses load and unload was a bad idea, just that with pretty much all current buses having the single person sized rear door that theres little point in trying to have both door boarding. If we had full size rear doors on all buses THEN perhaps it could be looked at, or making it so the the front door was for boarding only and the rear door was for exit only. Or they could look at providing a 3rd door right up the back like some other cities do. Wheelchairs and prams do ofcourse present an issue as unless there are other changes to the arrangements within the bus these must get off via the front door.

As for buses with greater capacity, again I didn't say doing this was a bad idea. I asked for more info on how long ago they started the trial, and what were the exact specs. of the buses they did it with. I haven't been keeping up on this one. I think buses with greater capacity is a good idea, but one problem that could arise is that the benefit given of more passengers per driver could be countered by longer unload times or any other number of issues with fiddling with new buses. And to get proper data on things like that you can't just run it for a week and analyse the data from that and make your decision then and there. People need to get used to the new bus.

Don't dismiss what others have to say about things like this as us just saying somethings too hard, as this is often not the case. Just because someone has a different opinion to you doesn't make either person right or wrong, and in fact by discussing things and making points for and against different plans and ideas you often can come to a totally different solution that is better than either solution that was first proposed.

[#Metro]

Not having a go at you, just the situation is rather difficult and intractable. 

[ozbob]

It is a challenge and we like challenges.    Something HAS to happen with the Cultural Centre and associated roads ...

A number of bus routes have rear door loading for go card users eg. Glider and 88 and I think there will be a progressive move for more as well.

[Golliwog]

Not having a go at you, just the situation is rather difficult and intractable. 

I know, I didn't think you were, but comments such as your previous one don't exactly encourage ideas.

It is a challenge and we like challenges.     Something HAS to happen with the Cultural Centre and associated roads ...

A number of bus routes have rear door loading for go card users eg. Glider and 88 and I think there will be a progressive move for more as well.

Last night I was having a look around the web and Brisbanes busway has been praised by some for not skimping on costs to be as grade seperated as it can. The places where this is not the case are also where delays occur. And this isn't just where it crosses roads near the CC but also where the busway branches near Buranda, Woollongabba and Mater Hill. They all have traffic lights, and where is it you see buses lined up behind each other? Yes it would be expensive but constructing these as grade seperated interchanges but would improve the flow of buses.

[O_128]

Not having a go at you, just the situation is rather difficult and intractable. 

I know, I didn't think you were, but comments such as your previous one don't exactly encourage ideas.

It is a challenge and we like challenges.     Something HAS to happen with the Cultural Centre and associated roads ...

A number of bus routes have rear door loading for go card users eg. Glider and 88 and I think there will be a progressive move for more as well.

Last night I was having a look around the web and Brisbanes busway has been praised by some for not skimping on costs to be as grade seperated as it can. The places where this is not the case are also where delays occur. And this isn't just where it crosses roads near the CC but also where the busway branches near Buranda, Woollongabba and Mater Hill. They all have traffic lights, and where is it you see buses lined up behind each other? Yes it would be expensive but constructing these as grade seperated interchanges but would improve the flow of buses.

Really, Didn't the original proposals have cultural centre underground? Something in the next 5 years will need to be done otherwise there will be a line of buses stretching across Victoria bridge, causing gridlock at QSBS and snaking all the way down Adelaide street causing traffic issues across the rest of the city

[somebody]

It is a challenge and we like challenges.    Something HAS to happen with the Cultural Centre and associated roads ...

A number of bus routes have rear door loading for go card users eg. Glider and 88 and I think there will be a progressive move for more as well.

Of course, the 88 bypasses the Cultural Centre.

Yes, all these things have been discussed before, but:
- I think the software change required is the main problem with gating stations
- I don't see that rear door boarding would speed things up enough to compensate for the fare evasion risk

[#Metro]

Really, Didn't the original proposals have cultural centre underground? Something in the next 5 years will need to be done otherwise there will be a line of buses stretching across Victoria bridge, causing gridlock at QSBS and snaking all the way down Adelaide street causing traffic issues across the rest of the city

Does anyone have a copy of the original proposals?
I agree O_128, just wait until the Eastern Busway comes online, that will be very interesting.

[somebody]

I've heard that the original proposal was to drop the intersection underground, i.e. the cars.

[ozbob]

555 bus inbound Buranda



Photograph R Dow 13th December 2010

[#Metro]

^^^ I wonder if it makes more sense to have the 555 got to Roma Street than the 111???

[Jonno]

The fact that we have a 111 and a 555 is based on old Council PT boundaries.  As posted previously these need to be combined into a single transit route with an express pattern like the rail lines.  Both should go to Roma Street.  As northern busway is delivered this should be linked to the 333 to make a single Chermside to Singwood transit route.

[#Metro]

555 would be perfect for that. What are the chances BT will say "this is MY area" go away logan city buses...

[ozbob]

It is time TransLink and the boffins in Government - all levels actually grasped the moment ...

Continuing mediocrity, political posturing, and self serving ego policy development needs to be replaced with a responsive policy, that creates an integrated public and active transport network responsive to the communities needs. 

[#Metro]

It might have something to do with how TL awards operators "areas" which are a bit like monopolies over a certain patch of turf. But on the other hand, this can be fuzzy. Some buses headed for Redlands/bay area pick passengers up from Stones Corner, for example.

[Jonno]

It might have something to do with how TL awards operators "areas" which are a bit like monopolies over a certain patch of turf. But on the other hand, this can be fuzzy. Some buses headed for Redlands/bay area pick passengers up from Stones Corner, for example.

The should base it on routes not areas whilst taking into account the depots but routes should not be limited to any boundary.  Same goes for the trains.  Not all services need to be run by QUeensland Rail.

[Golliwog]

It might have something to do with how TL awards operators "areas" which are a bit like monopolies over a certain patch of turf. But on the other hand, this can be fuzzy. Some buses headed for Redlands/bay area pick passengers up from Stones Corner, for example.

The should base it on routes not areas whilst taking into account the depots but routes should not be limited to any boundary.  Same goes for the trains.  Not all services need to be run by QUeensland Rail.

This is very much true. Especially if the route is a city based one. Once the bus has gone to the city for any route really, realistically it can leave again on any run without too much fuss. Practically though, thats a different story.

[somebody]

The fact that we have a 111 and a 555 is based on old Council PT boundaries.  As posted previously these need to be combined into a single transit route with an express pattern like the rail lines.  Both should go to Roma Street.  As northern busway is delivered this should be linked to the 333 to make a single Chermside to Singwood transit route.

I still wonder if Adelaide St near Central would be better than Roma St.  Roma St only really makes sense for interchange with the Ipswich line.

Rather than 88/111/160/555, maybe there should be just two routes, one of which does the combined 555/572 service which the evening 555 does as a BUZ, and another bus which runs Logan Hyp-city via Captain Cook Bridge, serving Parliament (that's where the Adelaide St rather than Roma St stop becomes necessary) on a roughly 88 timetable.

[ozbob]

Ipswich



Photograph R Dow 20th December 2010

[ozbob]

Cityglider bus and a photograph of the Go Between Bridge from train







Photographs R Dow 25th January 2011

[O_128]

Currently in London and funnily enough got the 453 bus which runs every 5 min on weekdays. Buses here are great all stops have a map of the area and where the routes go as well as where to interchange, all door boarding and a flat fate of £1.30 , but the best thing has to be the PIDS and automated announcements, Brisbane could learn alot from London , also tried out the light rail system and the stations look very similar to busway stations.

[ozbob]

Thanks for the travel updates!  Look forward to more as time allows ..

[#Metro]

Currently in London and funnily enough got the 453 bus which runs every 5 min on weekdays. Buses here are great all stops have a map of the area and where the routes go as well as where to interchange, all door boarding and a flat fate of £1.30 , but the best thing has to be the PIDS and automated announcements, Brisbane could learn alot from London , also tried out the light rail system and the stations look very similar to busway stations.

LOL! I wasn't reading properly, so when I saw "453 bus every 5 minutes" I thought, wow, there must have been some revolution in thinking at TransLink for the Western Suburbs! Would you be able to take photos? Surprised that they also show where to interchange...

[O_128]

Currently in London and funnily enough got the 453 bus which runs every 5 min on weekdays. Buses here are great all stops have a map of the area and where the routes go as well as where to interchange, all door boarding and a flat fate of £1.30 , but the best thing has to be the PIDS and automated announcements, Brisbane could learn alot from London , also tried out the light rail system and the stations look very similar to busway stations.

LOL! I wasn't reading properly, so when I saw "453 bus every 5 minutes" I thought, wow, there must have been some revolution in thinking at TransLink for the Western Suburbs! Would you be able to take photos? Surprised that they also show where to interchange...

I'll upload some photos when I have a spare minute, the maps are the exact same thing you have been proposing for Brisbane. also there are bus lames everywhere

[#Metro]

Thank you! Might be RailBOT media release material?

[ozbob]

Spring Hill Loop Bus





Photographs R Dow 31st January 2011

[BrizCommuter]

I've updated this blog post to highlight the diabolical overcrowding situation on the Inner Northern Busway.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/01/get-kicked-on-route-66.html

[#Metro]

Update 01/02/2011

The situation is just as bad this week. Yesterday BrizCommuter observed a bus which filled up at RCH Herston leaving behind around 30 passengers, and then could not pick up passengers at QUT KG. Today, BrizCommuter observed a 66 bypassing RCH Herston (meaning that it had filled to capacity at the RBWH - the first stop!). The following 333 then filled up to capacity at QUT KG, leaving behind more than 40 passengers.

This situation is an absolute disgrace TransLink!

Update 04/02/2011

BrizCommuter braved the Inner Northern Busway on the way into work this morning, and was passed by multiple full buses trying to get from Normanby to RBWH. An increasingly upset school child was trying to get to Chermside from Normanby at the same time, and could not get on any passing 330/333/340 to his destination as they were all full. One of BrizCommuter's work colleagues was also passed by 5 consecutive full buses at Roma Street whilst trying to get to RCH Herston.

Maybe instead of TransLink's slogan being "Making travel easy" it should be "Making travel hell"?

BrizCommuter, was this at peak hour? Counter peak buses might be able to share the load, but if it was at peak time, all other buses are in use, and therefore you have to buy a new bus to put on a service. Not just one either, but enough to maintain the headway as well. So you need a few buses, @$750 000 each.

Maybe that explains why TL is so reluctant to put more services on? Though it doesn't explain why the frequency drops from 5 minutes to 10 minutes off semester- I mean, this suggests that they have some buses spare and could probably put those into service out of term, but don't.

[BrizCommuter]

Update 01/02/2011

The situation is just as bad this week. Yesterday BrizCommuter observed a bus which filled up at RCH Herston leaving behind around 30 passengers, and then could not pick up passengers at QUT KG. Today, BrizCommuter observed a 66 bypassing RCH Herston (meaning that it had filled to capacity at the RBWH - the first stop!). The following 333 then filled up to capacity at QUT KG, leaving behind more than 40 passengers.

This situation is an absolute disgrace TransLink!

Update 04/02/2011

BrizCommuter braved the Inner Northern Busway on the way into work this morning, and was passed by multiple full buses trying to get from Normanby to RBWH. An increasingly upset school child was trying to get to Chermside from Normanby at the same time, and could not get on any passing 330/333/340 to his destination as they were all full. One of BrizCommuter's work colleagues was also passed by 5 consecutive full buses at Roma Street whilst trying to get to RCH Herston.

Maybe instead of TransLink's slogan being "Making travel easy" it should be "Making travel hell"?

BrizCommuter, was this at peak hour? Counter peak buses might be able to share the load, but if it was at peak time, all other buses are in use, and therefore you have to buy a new bus to put on a service. Not just one either, but enough to maintain the headway as well. So you need a few buses, @$750 000 each.

Maybe that explains why TL is so reluctant to put more services on? Though it doesn't explain why the frequency drops from 5 minutes to 10 minutes off semester- I mean, this suggests that they have some buses spare and could probably put those into service out of term, but don't.

There must be enough buses available, as the 66 is at reduced frequency. Whether there are enough drivers is another issue.

Whilst TransLink may not be able to sort this problem out immediately, it shouldn't have happened in the first place. TransLink appear to have either vastly underestimated Inner Northern Busway patronage yet again (re: lack of 66 to RBWH for 7 months, overcrowding every uni semester break), or have very little interest in solving some of the worst public transport overcrowding in Brisbane.

[#Metro]

This is at peak hour isn't it?
They've got to get more buses in, and they might have to buy a few more to expand the fleet even more. And that costs money, lots of money.
Are arctic buses running on the North side? I haven't noticed any arctics on the Nth Busway, except maybe 66 at times.

Agree that they should look into a 66 "evergreen" service.

[BrizCommuter]

This is at peak hour isn't it?

Yep, but in reverse peak direction (CBD to RBWH am, RBWH to CBD pm).

Around half of 66 services are arctics. Other INB services north of Roma Street services are not.

[somebody]

BrizCommuter, was this at peak hour? Counter peak buses might be able to share the load, but if it was at peak time, all other buses are in use, and therefore you have to buy a new bus to put on a service. Not just one either, but enough to maintain the headway as well. So you need a few buses, @$750 000 each.

Do you have a link for this price which you have quoted a couple of times?

I've updated this blog post to highlight the diabolical overcrowding situation on the Inner Northern Busway.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/01/get-kicked-on-route-66.html

If the 393 is here to stay, why not extend that to Woolloongabba via the busway?  UQ Lakes would also be an alternative, but probably second best.

Why not put the non revenue counter peak trips into service?

Sigh.  I don't see the need for extra 66 trips, and in fact I don't see the need for the numbers we currently have.  <ducks>

[BrizCommuter]

Sigh.  I don't see the need for extra 66 trips, and in fact I don't see the need for the numbers we currently have.  <ducks>