On the Buses

[aldonius]

Today was Market Day at UQ, which finishes up about 2pm

So James was right in the peak of  the peak outbound...

[James]

Today was Market Day at UQ, which finishes up about 2pm

So James was right in the peak of  the peak outbound...

It will still be difficult to be boarding buses come semester starting. Remember, Market Day features primarily first years and a dispersion of people from other years. On the other hand, first week back features everybody from first years to postgrads.

James has relatively accurate observations of passengers being left behind by buses during the first weeks of semester at his local stop. In fact in one of my O-week lectures (in a previous year) the lecturer actually warned of traffic congestion and full buses!

[techblitz]

Just observed 30+ lined up qsbsA, thought they might be waiting for a 220...turns out it was a 214 

Also noted a 20-25 pax  p456 leaving qsbs.

[James]

At my local stop this morning making some observations on the loadings of UQ-bound services. So far every bus since 7:30am has been too full to accept passengers. Oh dear...

[James]

After sitting at my local stop for around 1.5 hours on Wednesday (yesterday) observing loadings and arrival times of services going to UQ, I observed the following:

- 1 in 3 buses going to UQ between 7:30am and 9am were full to the point where they could accept no further pax, with another 1 in 3 (approximately) having standees. The remainder of the buses (mostly found to be in the quieter 8am - 8:30am window) generally had half-seated or 3/4-seated loads.
- There was one particular 411 service which had 2 pax on board, though. On the contrary, one 411 came through with 2 passengers on board - I think loading at Toowong is the issue here (along with possibly the 414 vacuuming up pax)
- Most of the buses on this particular day were running late, with reliability issues especially on the 427s - some running up to 15 minutes late - the one I caught this morning was running 6 minutes late, for example.
- Talking to locals at the stop, overcrowding was certainly an issue on the buses, and a few of them had actually told me they would like to see a letter written to TransLink/BCC complaining about the issue.

After standing out here, I think for the most part the issue is not as bad as it has been in previous years (or on previous corridors). However, what concerned me most is due to the mediocrity of continuing to have expresses along Hawken Drive (which save one minute), passengers were being left behind by full 428s yet were unable to catch half-seated load 432s. Still an issue which needs to be fixed, and could leave passengers stranded at bus stops longer than necessary.

Speaking of University traffic, I was also on board the 29 which came into Park Road around 10:50am this morning. About 10 pax going from Wooloongabba to UQ Lakes (including myself), which somewhat surprised me - I think some like the frequent same-platform transfer this connection supplies. 169 in front at Park Road left people behind, and 29 left with a few standees.

[techblitz]

3.43 ex qsbs 155

15-20 onboard ex qs
0 off 7 on griffith
12 off 8 on nathan
2off 6 on qe2 hospital
5 off @brookland village (mculloch st)
4 off and 9 on @ sunnybank plaza ( pax of various ages)

Some decent crosstown demand between sunnybank and the parks 

[techblitz]

227 inbound 4pmish
10-15 pax hopping on at shafston ave @connor st stop...

[James]

On board the 9:10 dep Adelaide St Stop 23 300 service, enjoying the pains of an all-stops bus which runs hourly. Sighted a New Farm 199 going via the Valley - is there any reason why this is happening? I believe it was setting down/picking up pax too...

[James]

This week so far has been a shocker for bus routes going to UQ (from Indooroopilly) with regards to overcrowding. Today in particular was bad on James' daily commute, with fellow commuters reporting that they had been left behind by up to 5 consecutive full buses. When a bus finally arrived, it was an express - so only useful to passengers at our stop (and extending the wait even further for those at other stops).

I also have reports that multiple people have been left behind by 428s at 10 and 11am in the morning. Given this service is running half-hourly, this is absolutely unacceptable. Express pattern mediocrity (which include express buses which do not save any time at all vs. all-stopping buses!) and overcrowding on this corridor needs to end.

[techblitz]

This week so far has been a shocker for bus routes going to UQ (from Indooroopilly) with regards to overcrowding. Today in particular was bad on James' daily commute, with fellow commuters reporting that they had been left behind by up to 5 consecutive full buses. When a bus finally arrived, it was an express - so only useful to passengers at our stop (and extending the wait even further for those at other stops).

I also have reports that multiple people have been left behind by 428s at 10 and 11am in the morning. Given this service is running half-hourly, this is absolutely unacceptable. Express pattern mediocrity (which include express buses which do not save any time at all vs. all-stopping buses!) and overcrowding on this corridor needs to end.

There is a reason translink opened up a facebook page.......report these issues.....i dislike overcrowding on either buses or trains....it can persuade people to ditch public transport.
My first overcrowding complaint to translink was for the 385 a couple of years ago...now for anyone bound for the gap at peak...this issue has now been fixed!

[James]

There is a reason translink opened up a facebook page.......report these issues.....i dislike overcrowding on either buses or trains....it can persuade people to ditch public transport.
My first overcrowding complaint to translink was for the 385 a couple of years ago...now for anyone bound for the gap at peak...this issue has now been fixed!

To be fair, TransLink never actually 'fixed' the problem at all. It was BCC which 'fixed' the problem.

...by shoving people on to the PorkbarrelGlider, which now carries air en masse in the off peak.

What is most frustrating is when full/late-running buses consistently occur. The service leaving Indooroopilly at 9:38am is particularly bad with late-running especially, to the extent that the following service (departing at 9:46am) often catches up to this service. I blame this on the fact there are no all-stopping buses for the previous 20 minutes before this service comes through, meaning this bus stops at almost every stop (which being all-stops, is every 250m). The 428, in peak direction, I find to be unreliable at the best of times.

[techblitz]

we will never know what backdoor deals were done between TL/BCC to get the MG and the 385 into the current stopping pattern arrangement it has now.....the main issue is that peak overcrowding to The Gap is fixed....im sure its all that matters for longtime suffering commuters from this suburb who were flat out getting on the bus at roma st let alone getting a seat....

just saw your complaint...good stuff.....now will be interesting to see if you get a response from TL on this....would be good..the guy who posted the sardine pic of the 3 car 5.47 cleveland ex central yesterday was given no such courtesy....

[James]

we will never know what backdoor deals were done between TL/BCC to get the MG and the 385 into the current stopping pattern arrangement it has now.....the main issue is that peak overcrowding to The Gap is fixed....im sure its all that matters for longtime suffering commuters from this suburb who were flat out getting on the bus at roma st let alone getting a seat....

just saw your complaint...good stuff.....now will be interesting to see if you get a response from TL on this....would be good..the guy who posted the sardine pic of the 3 car 5.47 cleveland ex central yesterday was given no such courtesy....

No 'backdoor' deals were done at all, Emerson just totally abrogated his responsibilities and just palmed off the review to BCC, which was going to do anything to porkbarrel the MaroonGlider and feed patronage into it. P374 was a good idea, but stop locations killed it (again, a BCC thing).

And again, as usual, palmed off with a generic 'Please lodge your complaint here' type form.

[James]

On the 8:05pm inbound 411 service, and I think I'm sitting in the ultimate of mediocrity. 411 and 412 played leapfrog along Coro Dr, and there's a TO on board out bus. Shame he's useless because the go card readers are out of order.

All together now... QUEENSLANDER! 

[longboi]

And again, as usual, palmed off with a generic 'Please lodge your complaint here' type form.

Exactly. So your issue can be followed up and similar issues can also be measured and reported on.

People love to whinge but never put in a little bit of effort to try and find a solution.

[James]

Exactly. So your issue can be followed up and similar issues can also be measured and reported on.

People love to whinge but never put in a little bit of effort to try and find a solution.

My solution is in my signature. If you introduced a PROPER peak express for the Indro - UQ corridor (i.e. P424 - Indro Shops - Indro station - UQ NON-STOP) which was timed so that it arrived just before a 420/425 CFN, along with stop rationalisation on the corridor (there is no need for about 45% of those stops), there would be no problem.

Goodness, you could do this simply by re-working the current 427/428/432. In fact, 4bph Indro - UQ is not difficult by carefully reworking the timetable. Right now the timetable is just a jumbled non clockface mess.

[longboi]

Exactly. So your issue can be followed up and similar issues can also be measured and reported on.

People love to whinge but never put in a little bit of effort to try and find a solution.

My solution is in my signature. If you introduced a PROPER peak express for the Indro - UQ corridor (i.e. P424 - Indro Shops - Indro station - UQ NON-STOP) which was timed so that it arrived just before a 420/425 CFN, along with stop rationalisation on the corridor (there is no need for about 45% of those stops), there would be no problem.

Goodness, you could do this simply by re-working the current 427/428/432. In fact, 4bph Indro - UQ is not difficult by carefully reworking the timetable. Right now the timetable is just a jumbled non clockface mess.

Yes, but you're not the one holding the purse strings, are you?

The idea is a solution, but you need something to convince the right people why it is needed and why it will work.

[James]

Realistically, funding doesn't really need to change, its the timetable which does. Haphazard loadings and service bunching are both significant issues.

I have made contact with BCC re: this issue, and their stance is essentially that the network was recently reviewed, so they're not going to bother changing anything.

[longboi]

Realistically, funding doesn't really need to change, its the timetable which does. Haphazard loadings and service bunching are both significant issues.

I have made contact with BCC re: this issue, and their stance is essentially that the network was recently reviewed, so they're not going to bother changing anything.

You may be right.

However, it's not the same as having $20 in your wallet and choosing to buy a cheaper brand of toilet paper.

You need to have some sort of justification as to how you are spending the public's money. If it's the same cost or cheaper...that's fantastic, write that down. 

My point is that you still need to do the legwork. It's not just about going around and saying "Run these buses as these times now...do it do it do it do it do it".

[#Metro]

James has done a lot of work. The issue is structural and organisational. So long as you have closed contracts (i.e. alternatives operators are banned), dual points of responsibility, a direct service model that much of is being paid for by someone else (QLD Gov) then little will change. Centenary, Yeronga and Northwest have all launched petitions over the years - little to show for it.

The people in charge don't need convincing, they need to be booted out.

The current system is one based on entrenched monopolies. Monopolies!! Worse the dual responsibility allows BCC to always say "That's a TransLink responsibility" (yeah, who invented Maroon CityGlider then? Translink!?)

Bring on bus contracting!!





http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4715.msg94499#msg94499

[techblitz]

Centenary, Yeronga and Northwest have all launched petitions over the years - little to show for it.

^ Plz provide some links/PROOF for all these community BUS petitions from yeronga,centenary,bulimba.....you have got my attention with this statement
Plz post EACH SUBURB and im assuming multiple petitions.....while your at it...some for the north-west and eastern suburbs like albany creek and wynnum....

The only decent efforts  ive seen for the past year or 2 are from passengers and politicians speaking out against changes to existing bus services....eg: p88,seq bus review,

i beleive the word is 'saturation'? Occasional one-off's barely even raise an eyebrow...
Time to see how hard these local residents have been arguing for better BUS services over the years....
Post away LD.....

My point is that you still need to do the legwork. It's not just about going around and saying "Run these buses as these times now...do it do it do it do it do it".

theres advocating in a comfort zone and then there is "going all out with all guns blazing"...using online and offline avenues...

[James]

You may be right.

However, it's not the same as having $20 in your wallet and choosing to buy a cheaper brand of toilet paper.

You need to have some sort of justification as to how you are spending the public's money. If it's the same cost or cheaper...that's fantastic, write that down. 

My point is that you still need to do the legwork. It's not just about going around and saying "Run these buses as these times now...do it do it do it do it do it".

I discussed cost neutrality and the benefit to passengers in my report, as well as a second document "The Science of Transferring", which essentially put it into clear daylight that transfers save passengers time and why looking at trip time alone is flawed. If you look at trip time alone, you should essentially run a taxi from every street in Brisbane once a day going express to the CBD.

BCC is not interested in changing the network. And is evidenced by the Bulimba CityCat debacle, I'm not sure if BCC is interested in even giving people increased service.

Techblitz - the reason people who are having services cut are speaking out is because those who are being faced with cuts will ALWAYS be more vocal than those facing service gains. Those set to gain service generally will not experience any immediate net benefit just because they are used to life without the bus. If the 412 had never been a BUZ, I'd just be used to life without a BUZ. Now, having gotten used to life with BUZ, anybody suggesting cutting the 412 (one of the highest patronised routes in Brisbane too, mind you) would be met with a lot of shouting on my part.

I personally simply do not have the funds (or time) to run around everywhere advocating for a change which at this point, there is not a mood in the community for. This is partly because the bus service is so crap, the majority of my friends have not used the bus service for non-CBD/Uni travel in at least 3 months. And when they do travel, they don't use their local route. Some park at the local railway station. One who goes to QUT parks at Guyatt Park. Many people I know actually park in my own area because their local route is of poor frequency.

I think the only approach that would actually work is a petition for a 411 BUZ/frequency upgrades. It is a lot easier to put your name to 'DONT CUT MY BUS' or 'P410 JAMES HOUSE TO CITY VIA UQ EXPRESS ROCKET PLEASE!' rather than a detailed proposal with proper solutions.

[#Metro]

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8915.0

(it's in the list)

I refer to a petition number 1851-12 lodged with the Legislative Assembly by Mr Murray Watt,
former Member for Everton on 16 February 2012, about bus services in Albany Creek and
Eatons Hill.

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8910.0

[longboi]

You may be right.

However, it's not the same as having $20 in your wallet and choosing to buy a cheaper brand of toilet paper.

You need to have some sort of justification as to how you are spending the public's money. If it's the same cost or cheaper...that's fantastic, write that down. 

My point is that you still need to do the legwork. It's not just about going around and saying "Run these buses as these times now...do it do it do it do it do it".

I discussed cost neutrality and the benefit to passengers in my report, as well as a second document "The Science of Transferring", which essentially put it into clear daylight that transfers save passengers time and why looking at trip time alone is flawed. If you look at trip time alone, you should essentially run a taxi from every street in Brisbane once a day going express to the CBD.

BCC is not interested in changing the network. And is evidenced by the Bulimba CityCat debacle, I'm not sure if BCC is interested in even giving people increased service.

Techblitz - the reason people who are having services cut are speaking out is because those who are being faced with cuts will ALWAYS be more vocal than those facing service gains. Those set to gain service generally will not experience any immediate net benefit just because they are used to life without the bus. If the 412 had never been a BUZ, I'd just be used to life without a BUZ. Now, having gotten used to life with BUZ, anybody suggesting cutting the 412 (one of the highest patronised routes in Brisbane too, mind you) would be met with a lot of shouting on my part.

I personally simply do not have the funds (or time) to run around everywhere advocating for a change which at this point, there is not a mood in the community for. This is partly because the bus service is so cr%p, the majority of my friends have not used the bus service for non-CBD/Uni travel in at least 3 months. And when they do travel, they don't use their local route. Some park at the local railway station. One who goes to QUT parks at Guyatt Park. Many people I know actually park in my own area because their local route is of poor frequency.

I think the only approach that would actually work is a petition for a 411 BUZ/frequency upgrades. It is a lot easier to put your name to 'DONT CUT MY BUS' or 'P410 JAMES HOUSE TO CITY VIA UQ EXPRESS ROCKET PLEASE!' rather than a detailed proposal with proper solutions.

Ok. It's clear you don't get what I'm saying to you.

There is nothing wrong with what you're saying. You are correct and you have put a lot of effort into your research. However, you aren't going to influence decision-makers directly.

You need to influence the people that do influence the decision makers. Unfortunately, that is sometimes why the loud "shouty" petitions get a bigger reaction than somebody essentially doing all the work themselves.

[James]

On board the second of the two outbound 446 services on a weekday... 2 pax on board! Someone else in Brisbane has a personalised home rocket service!

[minbrisbane]

I/b 150 - 4 pax at Cultural Centre/10:18

[James]

I/b 150 - 4 pax at Cultural Centre/10:18

Ah, 150 BUZ service bunching. Was at Mater Hill last week, saw one completely full (14.5m bus) 150 followed immediately after by one with a half-seated load.

Following on from my observations on board P-rocket safari yesterday (all services are outbound):
- 2 pax on the 446, one on at QSBS and one on at Roma Street - no more pax after that
- P458 - 13 passengers on board, service was running about 10 minutes late
- 453 - Half-seated load at Fig Tree Pocket
- 460 - Almost fully seated load
More peak hour air and waste (460 should be taking pax from the railway line!).

[aldonius]

The giant Boggo Rd UQ-bound lines continue.

I walked down the stairs onto platform 6 at 10:34 this morning. There were about 30 already in line from previous trains, perhaps another 20-25 behind me when the first bus arrived (169 from memory). Good thing there was a near-empty 29 behind it...

[aldonius]

Anyway, word is that bus drivers will now report when there is a long line waiting to get on their bus. The idea is that the buses coming up behind them will now explicitly know when they need to pull in.

http://www.uq.edu.au/news/article/2014/03/boggo-rd-bus-solution

[ozbob]

Anyway, word is that bus drivers will now report when there is a long line waiting to get on their bus. The idea is that the buses coming up behind them will now explicitly know when they need to pull in.

http://www.uq.edu.au/news/article/2014/03/boggo-rd-bus-solution

Thanks Aldonius!  A no-brainer solution hey?  But then again we are in Queensland ... 

[minbrisbane]

On board O/B 185 from Wishart.

There is no scheduled 185 from my stop until 10:05.  An hourly service 15 minutes early.  I spoke to the driver and she replied in a rather apathetic manner.  "It's(The timetable) just a guide."

No wonder there are only four people onboard.

Sent from my SM-N9007 using Tapatalk

[James]

On board O/B 185 from Wishart.

There is no scheduled 185 from my stop until 10:05.  An hourly service 15 minutes early.  I spoke to the driver and she replied in a rather apathetic manner.  "It's(The timetable) just a guide."

No wonder there are only four people onboard.

Sent from my SM-N9007 using Tapatalk

Unfortunately this seems to be the attitude of some BT drivers! I have noted a number of 400 series routes either leaving timing points early, or leaving the starting point of the route intentionally late (as in, they continue to wait in a bus layover area despite the scheduled departure time passing). Not to mention the 'mystery' 428s on Saturdays which don't turn up (which have stranded me and other pax twice in the last 3-6 months).

[dwb]

I believe in specific cases drivers are required to have their safety break meaning if they are particularly late on one run they may start the next late. Usually it is more frustrating when they leave the start early to try and finish their shift early - usually on later night services.

[techblitz]

I believe in specific cases drivers are required to have their safety break meaning if they are particularly late on one run they may start the next late.

ive explained that to james previously...hasnt sunk in yet
safety breaks are priority.

Usually it is more frustrating when they leave the start early to try and finish their shift early - usually on later night services.

indeed.

[James]

ive explained that to james previously...hasnt sunk in yet
safety breaks are priority.

indeed.

These are not route 150/250/600/680/700 runs, though. They are short dashes between UQ and Indooroopilly which only generally last 15 minutes or so. I have to question how much of it is 'safety' and how much of it is drivers using up their break time because they feel they are entitled to it, or because they feel entitled to what their union 'struggled' for. A lot of them could also be spending the last few minutes of their layover time loading passengers.

The 1:55pm 428 is one I note (partly because I catch this service regularly). About 1 in every 2 times it leaves late because the bus driver only bothers starting to LOAD passengers at 1:55pm (or later). Consequently this service leaves about 3-4 minutes late. One particular time I had a bus driver leave 8 minutes late - and I saw him fritting away time and having a smoke for those whole 8 minutes.

I am sure this is also a problem with many other services leaving route starting points - it is just more evident at UQ (Chancellors Place, and the Lakes too) as you can see the bus driver waiting there/having a smoko.

[dwb]

If it is the driver's break it is the driver's break full stop.

Underlying there may be a timetabling issue, but I'd repeat, a driver's break is a driver's break, focus your attention elsewhere.

[aldonius]

Anyway, I'm pleased to report that the 'don't form one single crazy doubling-back-around-the-stairwell queue' message has begun to sink in among Boggo Rd transfer pax.
Next up comes the 'actually queue along the platform, not just from the second entrance' message.

In related news, the 29 out to be at 5 minute frequency UQ bound until 11, rather than until just before 10am as present.
In particular, there should be a 29 service going through Boggo Rd at 10:35 (and presumably :45 and :55). The other routes between 10:30 and 11:00 are all already fairly well loaded by that point, the 139s and 169s in particular will sometimes be completely full.

[techblitz]

Lol crazy stuff
caught 701 750pmish northbound from tweed heads only passenger onboard till pasenger waves bus down at nobby beach shops.....oh wait hes catching next 700 

so 57 stops tweed heads to pac.....myself the sole passenger...or put another way 56 stops..no pickups..

[red dragin]

Lapdog will be jealous that your personal limo is better than his!

[James]

To follow on from techblitz's post, I have seen a few poorly loaded 701s around Palm Beach. Perhaps the 7.5 minute frequency is overkill, especially south of Burleigh? To be honest I'd rather a 765 running after 7pm than a 701 running every 15 mins from 6am - 9pm.

Hopefully this is all worked out come LRT implementation.