On the Buses

[techblitz]

Caught the 232 from Morningside to Cannon Hill 21Pax hopped off at Cannon Hill Shopping Centre, Cannon Hill to Morningside 17Pax boarded the 232 from Cannon Hill Shopping Centre. Not bad for a service that some people want to axe!

high value for money route....prolly depot proximity as the reason....but only moderate patronage rating.
In a post BT review...it def needs to stay...getting this upgraded to sundays has about as much chance as a bulimba buz under BT
I notice you didn't mind the TL review for bulimba. I think it was pretty decent although the secondary 308 didn't cut into hawthorne as much which the 232 currently does.
Tradeoff was much better frequency along most of the route...

[Otto]

The 232 did have a sunday service when it operated as the former 31.

[James]

Caught the 232 from Morningside to Cannon Hill 21Pax hopped off at Cannon Hill Shopping Centre, Cannon Hill to Morningside 17Pax boarded the 232 from Cannon Hill Shopping Centre. Not bad for a service that some people want to axe!

I have a sense that this is in reference to my comment regarding the 232 being wasteful at an earlier point in time. The 232 is hardly worth cutting, but it is certainly worthy of a good steam ironing, and possibly modification of the route into a cross-town instead of a City-bound route.

The back street urban safari tour it does in Bulimba is nothing short of a waste of time, not to mention the annoying little diversions just after the route's start at Cannon Hill. A car, after running down Kates Street, would simply turn into Junction Rd then onto Wynnum Road - but the 232 goes on a wasteful safari tour which takes over 2x as long to reach Cannon Hill. The diversion north of Cannon Hill station may be necessary - but the one south of it isn't (ideally I'd like to remove both diversions, but serving the station isn't a bad thing).

The 232 could be a winner if you sent it down major corridors (i.e. Hawthorne Road), added in Sunday services and stopped sending it via every second house in Balmoral/Bulimba. The terrain in that area is not awfully steep - people can walk up to 600m. In fact, I've taken the time to quickly whip up a possible new routing for a 232. This leaves nobody with a walk greater than 600m to a PT service (there may be a few who are exceptions) - perfectly acceptable. This new route is 8.0km, vs the current 232 which is 19.3km.

By shortening this welfare service by almost 60% (yet still maintaining most of its coverage), you can double the frequency of this service AND also add Sunday services, for no net cost increase. (Or put the money towards a Bulimba BUZ). For the pax no longer served by the new 232, most can walk - it is not that far. Not only this, but you also have a nice little feeder to the ferry - which can quickly connect across to the CityGlider for CBD-bound travel, meaning a net reduction in waiting time and travel time for those who use the service.

Yes, the 232 may get good loads along Wynnum Road and even into Bulimba in peak - so does the 417 in its catchment area, that does not stop the thing from running empty all the way to the CBD counter-peak and off-peak. The 417 has high value for money, so does the 232. Does not mean that 'WHEEEEE BUS NETWORK NOT BROKEN MAKE NO CHANGES EVAAAARRRRR!!!!' You look at the route and see how you can improve the frequency and efficiency of the service for the people who use it. Yes, direct trips and bus routes everywhere are nice, what isn't nice is having to walk long distances from the nearest BUZ stop or wait for up to an hour for a bus in Adelaide Street.

[kazzac]

 I have seen almost empty  inbound/outbound 232 services around my neighbourhood between 4.30pm-6.30pm  while on my afternoon walk. :-Xwhen I was without a car for a while used to catch this route to travel to Cannon Hill Plaza from Pashen St Morningside and was annoyed how long it took to travel that short distance,about 15 minutes. These days
I can drive there to Cannon Hill Plaza from my place in 5 minutes!

[James]

On board the 522 from Springfield Central to Goodna, route has been very empty, with only 1-2 pax most of the way. Route is far too windy, serious deterrent to pax. Long enough that I felt like we almost ended up at Greenbank...

[techblitz]

On board the 522 from Springfield Central to Goodna, route has been very empty, with only 1-2 pax most of the way. Route is far too windy, serious deterrent to pax. Long enough that I felt like we almost ended up at Greenbank...

and an 800 metre walk in 40 degree heat isnt...why are you even mentioning wind speeds as a deterrant when you call eldery whingers for not wanting to walk an extra few 100 metres 

[James]

WINDY as in curvy, circuitous. Why in all bloody hell would a bus route's success depend on the wind?
People will walk an extra few hundred metres if the bus doesn't go via everywhere.

PS On the 100 now, carried 4 pax Inala Plaza - Moorooka. Having to travel all the way into the City because apparently it is too difficult for me to go to Oxley and change to a train, and then to a bus at Indro, even though it would save 15 minutes travel time.

[HappyTrainGuy]

WINDY as in curvy, circuitous. Why in all bloody hell would a bus route's success depend on the wind?

Got to be real careful with those electric buses. A headwind just drains the juice like crazy!

[bagbuffy]

I'm shocked when I see more then 1 person on the wasteful 29, just a thought scrap the 234, extend 29 to the City via Kangaroo Point, in 15Min intervals. Everyone is happy!!!

[techblitz]

I'm shocked when I see more then 1 person on the wasteful 29, just a thought scrap the 234, extend 29 to the City via Kangaroo Point, in 15Min intervals. Everyone is happy!!!

this is one of the problem routes with BT which they should look at...off semester its carrying virtually no-one.....frequency cutback for these periods is a priority.....it a MODERATE/LOW bus route at 10 minute frequency which is propostorous.

PS On the 100 now, carried 4 pax Inala Plaza - Moorooka. Having to travel all the way into the City because apparently it is too difficult for me to go to Oxley and change to a train, and then to a bus at Indro, even though it would save 15 minutes travel time.

lol your having to travel all the way into the city because you are sightseeing would have been easier to connect to indro via the 522 & ipswich /springfield lines
If your gonna sightsee @ inala..spend the time more productively and better educate inala residents on the pros of rail-bus transfer....someone needs to do the dirty work.....since you like mentioning inala so much...and since gazza is the advocate for centenary...perfect opportunity for you to focus on inala:P

[James]

I'm shocked when I see more then 1 person on the wasteful 29, just a thought scrap the 234, extend 29 to the City via Kangaroo Point, in 15Min intervals. Everyone is happy!!!

The 29 and 234 have incompatible route profiles.

The answer is to make the 29 peak-only IMHO, and not operate it outside semester.

lol your having to travel all the way into the city because you are sightseeing would have been easier to connect to indro via the 522 & ipswich /springfield lines
If your gonna sightsee @ inala..spend the time more productively and better educate inala residents on the pros of rail-bus transfer....someone needs to do the dirty work.....since you like mentioning inala so much...and since gazza is the advocate for centenary...perfect opportunity for you to focus on inala:P

Right now I'm working on the residents of St Lucia and FUZ 411. Will get to Inala later.

And techblitz, I had just come from Goodna via the 463 on urban safari. Of course it would be better to simply use rail - but I could have accessed Indro/UQ very easily from Forest Lake if BCC ditched it's direct services mantra and terminated the 460 at Mt Ommaney. Route km saved could make this route more frequent or help in getting a BUZ into the Centenary suburbs.

But no, VIVA LA BCC BUS CONGA LINEEEEEEE!!!!!! Wheeeeeee!

[techblitz]

its good james that you are getting around the network down there.....notice how even the 463 stops have the 20jan green flags attached to them?
A mammoth effort to get these plastered onto every bus stop.Too bad the same sort of effort was not put into the TL proposed changes. The purpose of the green flags is to not only get attention of current users.....but other vehicle drivers people who live around the stops....and catch thier attention on changing public transport services in thier locality...
oh what could have been if things were better explained to the general public...as they are now with the green flags..

[petey3801]

A mammoth effort to get these plastered onto every bus stop.Too bad the same sort of effort was not put into the TL proposed changes.

Well, the reason for the green flags is because the services ARE changing. Not because there are proposed changes, which is what the TL review was. So, that's a bit of a nothing excuse/reason. Not that i'm defending the way TL handled the public consultation part of the review, because that truly was crap, but it was more a Government gag than a TL fail.

[minbrisbane]

Yep, every bus stop.  Even ones out of use - the same ones that were DDA upgraded where bo services stop. 

[techblitz]

i would be very surprised if TL are ever trusted to do a bus review ever again.......just hand the patronage data over and thankyou very much.....if they do miraculously get another chance....they need to grow a set and demand that Bcc not gag them on it...get it in writing....

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yep, every bus stop.  Even ones out of use - the same ones that were DDA upgraded where bo services stop.

I saw one on a district stop that looked like it hadn't seen a passenger let alone a bus since '93 

(the school service must be changing or something)

[HappyTrainGuy]

I caught a taxi bus the other day. Damn it was fast!

[James]

i would be very surprised if TL are ever trusted to do a bus review ever again.......just hand the patronage data over and thankyou very much.....if they do miraculously get another chance....they need to grow a set and demand that Bcc not gag them on it...get it in writing....

Why do you think TransLink wouldn't be trusted to do another review?

The pivotal issue is, and has been all along, Brisbane City Council. Reducing the amount of waste in BCC's area would have allowed the expansion of services outside of BCC's boundaries, and encouraged the feeding of buses to rail (e.g. 400 series routes). Emerson was the one who gagged TL. He wanted to take all the credit, thinking he would be the saviour of the buses, and he said absolutely nothing. And thus, in the information vacuum, fear campaigns and stupidity reigned supreme. I have written at length about this in the SEQ Bus Review thread and I won't repeat myself.

If TransLink put up my own review of the 400 series routes + 100-108 + 122, BCC would have nowhere to stand, because their network is grossly inferior to the one I have designed (and is linked in my signature). And furthermore, my review is fully costed and has completely outlined span of hours and frequency. The TransLink review did not do that - all it gave us was vague spans of hours and estimated frequencies.

Had TransLink been allowed to reform BCC's network, I'm reasonably sure that we would not be seeing the cuts in other regions that we've seen.

[HappyTrainGuy]

i would be very surprised if TL are ever trusted to do a bus review ever again.......just hand the patronage data over and thankyou very much.....if they do miraculously get another chance....they need to grow a set and demand that Bcc not gag them on it...get it in writing....

Why do you think TransLink wouldn't be trusted to do another review?

The pivotal issue is, and has been all along, Brisbane City Council. Reducing the amount of waste in BCC's area would have allowed the expansion of services outside of BCC's boundaries, and encouraged the feeding of buses to rail (e.g. 400 series routes).

And have improved the usability, service quality, better services and provided a bus service for the very first time for those already living in or using buses in the BCC area (for the northside of Brisbane - wasn't perfect but things still could have been worked and improved on).

[ozbob]

For sure James.  All bus regions are wearing the incompetence of a bureaucracy that puts political self interest  before community need ..

So, I oil my rifle ..  (metaphorical expression, I am an old soldier .. )  It means that I will take them to task .. 

[#Metro]

I caught a taxi bus the other day. Damn it was fast!

Photo of the day!

We need a gallery for all of this!

[bagbuffy]

Obviously the photo wasn't taken along the Wynnum Rd Corridor as we usually have to stand!!!

[techblitz]

Busmania at the gabba tonite lol
Rare indeed to see buses with chermside on the desto coming up ipswich rd.
A cheeky bus driver had 88 on his as well

[James]

On the Sunny Coast on holidays. Gone for a trip aboard the 600 from Caloundra to Maroochydore and back. Trip up was quiet, average of 2-3 pax on board for most of the trip.

On the trip back now, almost 40 pax on board! Very impressive loads, even bearing in mind it is a holiday weekday. I believe OH&S is being breached though, three prams on board and a wheelchair being stored in the stairwell of the back door. And on that note, I don't think Sunbus drivers remember some of them do have a back door. 

[HappyTrainGuy]

Sunny coast buses have back doors?

[James]

Sunny coast buses have back doors?

Yep - most of the locals seem to ignore it though. Due to paper tickets, the next 600 service is in front of us - and it's a double decker!

[ozbob]

Queensland Times --> Passengers dumping waste on our buses

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane commuter stands up to bus racist but 'let down' by other passengers

[techblitz]

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane commuter stands up to bus racist but 'let down' by other passengers

Touchy subject and a lucky ending in my opinion. Bus driver did the right thing by not taking sides.

[James]

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane commuter stands up to bus racist but 'let down' by other passengers

Touchy subject and a lucky ending in my opinion. Bus driver did the right thing by not taking sides.

I agree. Just let the stupid man voice his opinion.

Twice in fact I have had people on board Sunny Coast bus services swearing excessively for no real reason. Don't raise a fuss, just let it be, I'd rather put up with it than be on the news having a giant whinge and holding up other pax.

[STB]

Personally I would've recorded the whole thing, if it was bad enough, pass that recording onto the authorities and let them deal with it from there.  They certainly have been cracking down on it down south, so I hope that the same would happen up here if it was caught on camera.

Driver did the right thing though, at least for his own safety.  Naturally one would've preferred he kicked the idiot off though.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Woman who stood up to racist bus bully praised

[techblitz]

Lol they have upgraded the mess in the bus tunnel between sbank & mater with an actual speed limit sign
20km/h...

[James]

Trying to get to Northshore Hamilton area... A 300 BUZ would come in handy, and we'd have one if to weren't for BCC's stupid not broken bus network. To rub salt into my wounds, the 411 decided to run 20 minutes late, and I was (again) the sole passenger on board.

The 300 is hourly after 7pm! Hourly! How in all fking hell does a bloody cow out at Moggill or some granny who is tucked up in bed in Inala deserve a bloody BUZ, yet a high-rise development 4km from the CBD gets this awful excuse for a service. It feels like I'd be better off crawling on my hands and knees to get to my destination.

I am at the end of my tether... Brisbanites need to learn to drive, and BCC needs to learn how to design a network. God takes a p%ss and the whole city stops.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Brisbanites need to learn to drive

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of you on that one

[techblitz]

More classic granny remarks from the king himself...
Oh but heaven forbid they delete your 411 evening taxi service though....
The walk from bretts wharf to portside/northshore is a piece of cake...
I think its time for you to drive.....since there is no going back to that poorly consulted review.

[#Metro]

Trying to get to Northshore Hamilton area... A 300 BUZ would come in handy, and we'd have one if to weren't for BCC's stupid not broken bus network. To rub salt into my wounds, the 411 decided to run 20 minutes late, and I was (again) the sole passenger on board.

The 300 is hourly after 7pm! Hourly! How in all fking hell does a bloody cow out at Moggill or some granny who is tucked up in bed in Inala deserve a bloody BUZ, yet a high-rise development 4km from the CBD gets this awful excuse for a service. It feels like I'd be better off crawling on my hands and knees to get to my destination.

I am at the end of my tether... Brisbanites need to learn to drive, and BCC needs to learn how to design a network. God takes a p%ss and the whole city stops.

Hi James. It is OK because there is so much waste/fat within the BCC bus network it is a actually an obese target for rival private operators to come in and undercut with a new connected network leveraging off the upgraded rail services. And this isn't just some hand-waving idea, it is something that one can calculate given enough time and resources. I know that there is enormous waste in the system, just look at the Old Cleveland Rd corridor for example, there are 16 buses per hour in the off peak - that is a bus every 3.75 minutes! This is why people of Yeronga, Bulimba, Northwest etc do not have BUZ services, it is being wasted on WasteGliders and other wasteful network planning and legacy routing.

I took a walk through Northshore Hamilton last weekend. There are 20+ story tower apartments in that area with no bus stop access. The network can and does need a major overhaul, and the best way to do that is to ensure that everyone knows where the waste is.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Just build them a new ferry terminal and things will be good aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas mate.

[techblitz]

 residential populations around portside is also growing by the day
at the same time...the road layout and design is not PT friendly especially for buses. Even translink realised this and didn't even bother sending buses closer to portside.Take a look at the current 303 route. The remora rd stop is about the best that can be done...then its back onto lamington ave...

[James]

More classic granny remarks from the king himself...
Oh but heaven forbid they delete your 411 evening taxi service though....
The walk from bretts wharf to portside/northshore is a piece of cake...
I think its time for you to drive.....since there is no going back to that poorly consulted review.

Oh goodness, you think I support the 411 continuing to the CBD. Yes, the evening taxi service is nice, but I don't support it because almost every time I end up having to walk 1km from the nearest 412 stop on the return journey. Not fun in weather like this. I'd rather transfer and see my own bus frequency doubled instead.

Yes, the walk from Bretts Wharf is alright, but have you seen how appallingly the transfers line up?
Option 1 has a 19 minute transfer penalty at Regatta. Leaving my stop at around 7:45pm/connecting at Regatta at 8:11pm, I get into Bretts Wharf at 9:18pm. This is a trip time of 1.5 hours. You face an identical problem at North Quay.
Option 2 is via Blue CityGlider (and probably the fastest way), connecting in the city around 8:15pm, getting one in to Bretts Wharf at 8:48pm. Trip time of 1 hour - it goes to show that the river is probably one of the most indirect methods of travelling around Brisbane, that you can cut half an hour off a trip just by avoiding the ferry!
(To put it in perspective, I could walk this distance in 2 hours - driving it takes 20 minutes!)

The alternative of 411 + 300 takes a mere 45 minutes. Admittedly it can take up to an hour if transfers poorly line up, but in both instances, faster than the ferry (notice that journey planner on the forward journey does not actually suggest using the ferry!)

I am not bugged by the fact there is no bus stop right outside Northshore Hamilton's doorstep. The ferry terminal (which currently gets an awful half-baked service) can serve the role of a service/coverage for now. What annoys me, though, is that the 300 (a prime candidate for BUZ) gets an appalling service after 7pm, despite performing very well. The place is essentially a PT black hole at night.