On the Buses

[Set in train]

Brisbanetimes --> Bus crashes into Redland Bay house


http://images.brisbanetimes.com.au/2013/10/28/4866251/729bus-crash-620x349.jpg

ABC midday radio news incorrectly referred to the bus as a 'council bus'. Fortunately RCC has more sense than meddle that way in PT.

[Otto]

Just near my place. My son has just arrived home on a 282 service and saw it as he went past.

http://www.baysidebulletin.com.au/story/1869493/bus-crashes-into-two-redland-bay-houses/?cs=212

[Fattious]

I as the sole occupant this morning on the Maroon Glider from Buranda to KGS around 7am. Chauffeur.

[techblitz]

Bit of a student card blitz happening along the 120 corridor. Seen some t/os  tuesday evening and again today...switching between i/b and o/bounds along toohey rd 

[STB]

Went up to the Sunshine Coast yesterday for a bit of a farewell tour before the changes on the 25th November.

Routes caught: route 649, 636, 607, 601 and 610.

7:20am 649 Caboolture to Nambour had about 12 people on board, with consistent pick ups and drop offs.  Arrived on time at Nambour station at 0851 (I touched off at 0852).

9:10am 636 Nambour to USC - Had a total of 3 people for the overall journey with 2 (myself and another) boarding at Nambour, and picked up one other person near Buderim.  USC was near empty, which I was assuming is due to the university holidays on.  Arrived 4mins early (0941).

9:53am 607 USC to Caloundra - had about a 1/4 load to Caloundra, picked up a few around Brightwater who then got off on Nicklan Way.  Arrived on time.

11:05am 601 Caloundra to Maroochydore - Had about 5 passengers on board, 1 got off on Nicklan Way after he accidentally thought that he was on route 600.  Was a little surprised that we were going all stops though, I thought it was limited stops to Maroochydore?  Arrived 4mins early at Maroochydore (11:51am).  Also noticed that there is still a ton of construction work to be done on the Maroochydore Bus Station, I'll be amazed if it is finished by the 25th November, they were still installing the framework for the station itself!

I then finally caught route 610 over to Nambour departing at 12:47pm, ready to take the Gympielander home.  Had a 3/4 load where several got off along Main Road near Maroochydore Road.  Still had a decent load into Nambour, with some continuing to the hospital.  Arrived 2mins early after leaving a few mins late out of Sunshine Plaza.

And finally caught the ICE back to Brisbane, and while waiting the southbound Electric Tilt arrived/departed, with a few getting off.  Had a fairly good load as well I noticed.

[Golliwog]

So I'm house sitting for the next couple of weeks out along Moggill Rd Chapel Hill/Kenmore area. I thought I'd be able to catch the 427/428/432 buses to Indro station and catch a train into the city from there as the bus stop one/multiple of them serve isn't far, but I hit a stumbling block in that despite knowing they provide the Indro-UQ connection, I hadn't realised how poorly serviced they are past Indro! It's honestly a bit missleading to have them use the same route number IMO. Looking at the timetable: http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/120123-427,428,432.pdf the route map makes no mention that it's only selected trips going beyond Indro and realistically each route is only roughly half hourly beyond Indro in peak.

Looking like I might have to play bus lotto to Indro SC and walk up/down the hill to the station which really isn't that great an interchange, though it keeps me out of the mayhem that can be Moggill Rd/Coro Drive.

[James]

So I'm house sitting for the next couple of weeks out along Moggill Rd Chapel Hill/Kenmore area. I thought I'd be able to catch the 427/428/432 buses to Indro station and catch a train into the city from there as the bus stop one/multiple of them serve isn't far, but I hit a stumbling block in that despite knowing they provide the Indro-UQ connection, I hadn't realised how poorly serviced they are past Indro! It's honestly a bit missleading to have them use the same route number IMO. Looking at the timetable: http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/120123-427,428,432.pdf the route map makes no mention that it's only selected trips going beyond Indro and realistically each route is only roughly half hourly beyond Indro in peak.

Looking like I might have to play bus lotto to Indro SC and walk up/down the hill to the station which really isn't that great an interchange, though it keeps me out of the mayhem that can be Moggill Rd/Coro Drive.

Welcome to the western suburbs Golli, where all our routes run half-hourly in peak hour and hourly off-peak. (No, seriously, they all do aside from the 444, P443 and 427/428/432 east of Indooroopilly). You are better off simply catching the 444/P443 from KGSBS if headed anywhere along Moggill Road, then wait for a bus at the Moggill Road at Chapel Hill stop. Rail frequency is nice, but the trains tend to line up abysmally with outbound buses, and provided it's not a trainwreck on Coronation Drive, rail won't save you much time anyway.

Also, make a mental note that outbound 427/428/432s use Indooroopilly Stop 'E' (i.e. no common stop location with 425/430/433/445), where you can get a good view of a 430 or 433 out to Kenmore that you can't catch by waiting at that stop. You see, it is things like these which are he reason why we can't have nice things.

Coronation Drive/Moggill Road tends to flow alright between the City and just before Indooroopilly, it is Indooroopilly where hell occurs. I could probably go on all day about what could help speed up your trip and what are the worst things (tip: Adelaide St 400 series buses tend to be the quickest in getting out of the CBD from my own experience).

[James]

Unrelated: Aboard 8:03pm ex St Lucia South 412, standees to Toowong, almost full seated load to Auchenflower. As I said, probably one of the best performing bus routes in Brisbane. 

[techblitz]

Unrelated: Aboard 8:03pm ex St Lucia South 412, standees to Toowong, almost full seated load to Auchenflower. As I said, probably one of the best performing bus routes in Brisbane. 

Nice
Time to take a forum truncation at toowong vote on the 412 
I wonder what the result would be.....

[#Metro]

I think referencing vehicle size is misleading. Just because the bus is full doesn't mean much. Why? One full bus is one very empty train. You get a different answer just by changing the vehicle size and altering the frequency. If we ran a train in lieu people would say that it is a failing terrible service with very low load (65 pax) and would probably recommend it being cut. And yet, the same number of people being transported.

In the second case, it is also misleading because if we were to turn that bus around we could increase the frequency and offer more seats. This is important because a very loaded bus suggests that some people are not catching the bus because they are being left behind or they are put off because it is too full. It also suggests if extra services were added that these would also be filled as well. The extra frequency would also induce more patronage (to a limit). During the evenings 412 services run every 15 minutes. If these were run at 10 minute frequency, these two new services per hour would probably also be filled as well. And you'd have more people being transported, more fare revenue being collected for the same resources. That's how I suggest we get the 70% subsidy down.

How would you pay for those new services? You could just spend more. And that would cost more. Or you could be more efficient and use the same resources by using the train station and the excess capacity available on the trains at Toowong.

Self-interest is a powerful thing. Many people confuse their own self interest with the public interest. They think that what's bad for them must be bad for everyone. Not true. Everyone is for feeder networks in general, and against them in specific.

Public transport is a public service paid for by everyone and therefore should seek to benefit everyone. Not just people who want to use other people's funds for their own personal taxi service. If people want taxi services, fine, hire a taxi, and pay the full cost for themselves too.

Full disclosure: I am the current beneficiary of a personal taxi service (route 161) put on by Brisbane Transport. Thanks BT! Thanks Graham Quirk! Thanks Peter Matic!!

[Golliwog]

So I'm house sitting for the next couple of weeks out along Moggill Rd Chapel Hill/Kenmore area. I thought I'd be able to catch the 427/428/432 buses to Indro station and catch a train into the city from there as the bus stop one/multiple of them serve isn't far, but I hit a stumbling block in that despite knowing they provide the Indro-UQ connection, I hadn't realised how poorly serviced they are past Indro! It's honestly a bit missleading to have them use the same route number IMO. Looking at the timetable: http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/120123-427,428,432.pdf the route map makes no mention that it's only selected trips going beyond Indro and realistically each route is only roughly half hourly beyond Indro in peak.

Looking like I might have to play bus lotto to Indro SC and walk up/down the hill to the station which really isn't that great an interchange, though it keeps me out of the mayhem that can be Moggill Rd/Coro Drive.

Welcome to the western suburbs Golli, where all our routes run half-hourly in peak hour and hourly off-peak. (No, seriously, they all do aside from the 444, P443 and 427/428/432 east of Indooroopilly). You are better off simply catching the 444/P443 from KGSBS if headed anywhere along Moggill Road, then wait for a bus at the Moggill Road at Chapel Hill stop. Rail frequency is nice, but the trains tend to line up abysmally with outbound buses, and provided it's not a trainwreck on Coronation Drive, rail won't save you much time anyway.

Also, make a mental note that outbound 427/428/432s use Indooroopilly Stop 'E' (i.e. no common stop location with 425/430/433/445), where you can get a good view of a 430 or 433 out to Kenmore that you can't catch by waiting at that stop. You see, it is things like these which are he reason why we can't have nice things.

Coronation Drive/Moggill Road tends to flow alright between the City and just before Indooroopilly, it is Indooroopilly where hell occurs. I could probably go on all day about what could help speed up your trip and what are the worst things (tip: Adelaide St 400 series buses tend to be the quickest in getting out of the CBD from my own experience).

Thanks for the tips, just catching a 444 outbound was what I did last time (with the first bus on the inbound leg) which was pre-Sector 1 when they played with the 427/428/432 which I thought might have given me a benefit this time. Oh well, at least I'll try and work out where the 4xx buses leave from on Adelaide St seeing as I work a few blocks down Adelaide St from KGS, I'll more than likely be walking past one of the other 4xx bus route stops.

[James]

Thanks for the tips, just catching a 444 outbound was what I did last time (with the first bus on the inbound leg) which was pre-Sector 1 when they played with the 427/428/432 which I thought might have given me a benefit this time. Oh well, at least I'll try and work out where the 4xx buses leave from on Adelaide St seeing as I work a few blocks down Adelaide St from KGS, I'll more than likely be walking past one of the other 4xx bus route stops.

Might as well give you a run-through on which buses go where.

To Indooroopilly:
- Adelaide St Stop 40 - 433, 445, 415 (some trips/if you enjoy wasting your life on urban safari)
- QSBS - 425, 430, 431 (peak-only), 435, 446 (peak-only), 450, 453, 454, 460
- KGSBS - P443, 444, P426 (which probably won't be of use to you)
- Rail - Ipswich Express/Richlands all-stops

Adelaide Street buses are generally fastest getting out of the CBD, followed by a close tie between KGSBS buses and rail. QSBS buses are a long way behind, especially off-peak when they go via Cultural Centre - that diversion wastes time, sometimes it will take 10 mins to go from QSBS to Cribb Street.

Milton to Indooroopilly, in peak rail has the obvious advantage (5 minutes on the express/8 on the all-stopper), but mostly between the City and Toowong. When catching the train, make a mental note that getting from the station up the hill to the bus interchange can take up to 10 minutes, mostly because of high pedestrian traffic/footpath works occurring in the area. The bus isn't much better due to the number of traffic lights in the area and general congestion. Toowong in that respect is a lot better - only a few minutes to go from train to bus.

[Golliwog]

Thanks heaps, based on that I might actually give the 433/445 a go, they also stop at Adelaide St stop 34 which is quite close to my work.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Three burned in Warrego Highway bus fire

[techblitz]

460 doing a good job at peak.
5.40pm richlands towards forest lake...about 30onboard....half of those hopping on at richlands rail

101 4pmish counted 13 onboard leaving richlands rail...

[James]

Dear Rail Back on Track members,

I hope you enjoy seeing and hearing about your taxpayers money being wasted, because right now I am the SOLE PASSENGER aboard the 411 inbound from Toowong. That's right, express from my doorstep to the CBD stopping only at Toowong.

Thank you BCC! Thank you Graham Quirk! Thank you users of the 468 and Northside residents who have no bus services at this time of night who are funding my EXPRESS trip in to the CBD without ANY transfers! Don't cut my bus!

Kind regards,

Myself

[HappyTrainGuy]

[James]

^ HTG, I dearly hope you recognised the sarcasm dripping from that post...

[HappyTrainGuy]

I did 

[techblitz]

Dear Rail Back on Track members,

I hope you enjoy seeing and hearing about your taxpayers money being wasted, because right now I am the SOLE PASSENGER aboard the 411 inbound from Toowong. That's right, express from my doorstep to the CBD stopping only at Toowong.

Thank you BCC! Thank you Graham Quirk! Thank you users of the 468 and Northside residents who have no bus services at this time of night who are funding my EXPRESS trip in to the CBD without ANY transfers! Don't cut my bus!

Kind regards,

Myself

^^^^^^^^^^


Suggestion: send rants,sarcastic letters, and/or empty bus pics herelordmayor@brisbane.qld.gov.au

[#Metro]

I have my own personal BCC-funded limousine service as well. 

Not sure how Techblitz got my photo in the picture with a cat. WOOF!!

[HappyTrainGuy]

How's this for utilizing rollingstock. Got off a 340 at Lutyche. Stopped behind it was a 333 with ~4 people onboard and a 375. Walked to the top and a 370 with 1 person onboard goes past.

[ozbob]

Hey 524 buz ...   

[Gazza]

460 doing a good job at peak.
5.40pm richlands towards forest lake...about 30onboard....half of those hopping on at richlands rail

Does that mean it was carrying 15 people for the CBD-Indro-Mt O leg?

[techblitz]

460 doing a good job at peak.
5.40pm richlands towards forest lake...about 30onboard....half of those hopping on at richlands rail

Does that mean it was carrying 15 people for the CBD-Indro-Mt O leg?

15 from cbd to mt ommaney..... After passing thru indro and cc?....dream on 

[James]

15 from cbd to mt ommaney..... After passing thru indro and cc?....dream on 

No, in fact I think Gazza's observation is quite accurate. What he means is were 15 people doing the CBD/Indro/Mt Ommaney - Richlands trip - your observations seem to agree with that.

The fact the bus could have been carrying a standing load out of QSBS is irrelevant if the bus leaves Indro with 5 passengers - those pax could have used another service (i.e. no need for the service to exist CBD - Indro).

[James]

Leaving cultural Centre aboard the 212... 0 pax on board coming into the Cultral Centre... Until the Barmy Army discovered that this bus goes to Woolloongabba! Standing loads now - expect the bus to be empty then come Wooloongabba though.

Bus Conga Line engulfing the Cultural Centre at this point in time - why the heck ARENT they sending full buses via CCB instead of Cultural Centre? Only in Queensland... 

[techblitz]

Leaving cultural Centre aboard the 212... 0 pax on board coming into the Cultral Centre... Until the Barmy Army discovered that this bus goes to Woolloongabba! Standing loads now - expect the bus to be empty then come Wooloongabba though.

Bus Conga Line engulfing the Cultural Centre at this point in time - why the heck ARENT they sending full buses via CCB instead of Cultural Centre? Only in Queensland... 

Brisbane transports handling of the gabba test is mediocre at best. Im not looking forward to this afternoon when peak hits.Was bad enough yesterday.Newman and co should have also looked at giving free travel thru the clem7 to relieve traffic congestion around the gabba...

[SurfRail]

Hybrids on the way it seems.

http://www.busnews.com.au/news.aspx?ArticleID=86122

[Golliwog]

So thought I'd give some thoughts on the Western suburbs buses now that I've been living out here for a few weeks now. The closest stop to me is a BUZ stop but also served by (I think) 3 or 4 routes that are QSBS bound, and 2 Adelaide St/Valley bound routes. The Adelaide St bound routes are the most convenient routes, with one of their stops around the corner from where I work.

Inbound

• I usually end up on a 444 or a P443
• Because of the poor frequency of the 2 Adelaide St routes, I have literally only managed to catch it once on the inbound run as it's not worth waiting for. That's a combination of poor frequency but also traffic as I think it's often scheduled to turn up a minute after one of the buses I do catch, but with the traffic you never know if that could be more than that, or if its already gone past.
• When I have ended up on that route, it's generally not even half a seated load.
• A number of people (both highschool and uni students, and I assume some local workers) interchange at Indooroopilly.
• As has been noted here a number of times, from what I've seen most people tend to just hop on whatever the first bus to turn up is.

Outbound

• As the bus routes on Adelaide St are closest, I've used them everytime unless I've worked late (or gone to the pub!) at which point they're either not running or poor frequency
• In those cases, KGS is where I go, slightly closer than QSBS but I know it's an even frequency.
• Again, never experienced a standing load, a bit closer to fully seated loads than inbound but still haven't seen it happen.
• Traffic can be killer. On one particularly bad day (they put out a notice on TL about congestion in CBD and on Coro Dr after we'd left Adelaide St) it took around 20 minutes to get from my stop on Adelaide St to Hale St.
• I've also had days where the trip has taken an extra 20 minutes with no real reason for the congestion.

My view is there is really no need to have anywhere near as many routes. Yes I was quite happy the day I managed to get the route that dropped me near my office, but I never once had an issue walking a few blocks from KGS.

[Arnz]

I've caught the 3rd last 601 southbound (Caloundra) service today.  6 people boarded at Sunshine Plaza, and 3 more boarded at the homemaker centre.  The bus peaked at 9 people, and on arrival at Caloundra it was only me and one other pensioner at the end of the trip.

I've noted people got off at Kawana Shops (Minyama), 2 at Kawana Town Centre, and 3 at Currimundi (Erang Street).  From the small talk amongst the passengers onboard the service, the only thing they'll miss is the "express to the Plaza" route from the Kawana based passengers.  The few folks around Currimundi that regularly uses this service is talking how they now have to catch the 607 and change to the frequent Route 600 at Kawana shops, as 607 replaces part of the 601 route through the Kawana Town Centre/University Hospital.

Overall basically everyone isn't going to miss the 601 going away, apart from those at Minyama missing the express trip, but they are happy enough the Route 600 is being increased from every 15 mins to every 12 mins (Weekdays) to compensate

[James]

So thought I'd give some thoughts on the Western suburbs buses now that I've been living out here for a few weeks now. The closest stop to me is a BUZ stop but also served by (I think) 3 or 4 routes that are QSBS bound, and 2 Adelaide St/Valley bound routes. The Adelaide St bound routes are the most convenient routes, with one of their stops around the corner from where I work.

Inbound

• I usually end up on a 444 or a P443
• Because of the poor frequency of the 2 Adelaide St routes, I have literally only managed to catch it once on the inbound run as it's not worth waiting for. That's a combination of poor frequency but also traffic as I think it's often scheduled to turn up a minute after one of the buses I do catch, but with the traffic you never know if that could be more than that, or if its already gone past.
• When I have ended up on that route, it's generally not even half a seated load.
• A number of people (both highschool and uni students, and I assume some local workers) interchange at Indooroopilly.
• As has been noted here a number of times, from what I've seen most people tend to just hop on whatever the first bus to turn up is.

Outbound

• As the bus routes on Adelaide St are closest, I've used them everytime unless I've worked late (or gone to the pub!) at which point they're either not running or poor frequency
• In those cases, KGS is where I go, slightly closer than QSBS but I know it's an even frequency.
• Again, never experienced a standing load, a bit closer to fully seated loads than inbound but still haven't seen it happen.
• Traffic can be killer. On one particularly bad day (they put out a notice on TL about congestion in CBD and on Coro Dr after we'd left Adelaide St) it took around 20 minutes to get from my stop on Adelaide St to Hale St.
• I've also had days where the trip has taken an extra 20 minutes with no real reason for the congestion.

My view is there is really no need to have anywhere near as many routes. Yes I was quite happy the day I managed to get the route that dropped me near my office, but I never once had an issue walking a few blocks from KGS.

Assuming you're west of the M5, it is two routes to QSBS off-peak and four in peak (with the 431 and the 446 being the peak-only routes).

Golli - if you've always ended up on BUZ 444, you will find people use that service a LOT more (even inbound) compared to the other services. As a rule, at Indooroopilly, if you want to get to the City fastest (and have a choice between the all-stopper, QSBS express or 444), use the all-stopper, because nobody touches it because it doesn't go to the Cultural Centre or a bus station (it is strange logic). Too often I see people wave on 411s just to catch 412s and 444s. There is also, as you mention, the unreliability factor. Buses running through Indooroopilly are known for being notoriously late, even off-peak.

[ozbob]

Some feedback received, thanks ..

I am also fed up with the number of times the 180 bus does not turn up from the city. Again this afternoon it took me 1 1/4 hours to get home from the Valley to Mansfield.  I take the train to South Brisbane then walk to Cultural Centre bus stop.  A couple of times recently it took 1 1/2 hours to get home. I could have reached Toowoomba by car from Brisbane in that time, and yet I only live 15 km from the CBD.

[Golliwog]

Thanks James, I must admit once I'm on the bus and have a seat (one particular 444 this typically doesn't happen until after Indro SC or BCC because of the number of students taking seats) I'm usually reading a book so I don't pay too much attention to what other buses are around outside. I think I have noted the 444 a few times keeping pace with one of the all stoppers along Coro Dr though I was never sure if that was us catching up to the one in front or them catching up to us.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 16m

4 pax inbound MGLD Stones Corner c2040

===============

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 52m

Sole pax outbound MGLD c2039 .. Buranda

[ozbob]

^







Photographs R Dow 25th November 2013

[James]

Thanks James, I must admit once I'm on the bus and have a seat (one particular 444 this typically doesn't happen until after Indro SC or BCC because of the number of students taking seats) I'm usually reading a book so I don't pay too much attention to what other buses are around outside. I think I have noted the 444 a few times keeping pace with one of the all stoppers along Coro Dr though I was never sure if that was us catching up to the one in front or them catching up to us.

But that's the best part, racing other buses to the City! My favourite time is off-peak during the weekdays due to service density. It's kind of like gambling, but with your time instead! Maybe in order to increase the farebox, BCC should host on-board betting competitions on board bus services running down duplicated corridors as to who will reach the last common corridor location first!

Pick a bus, any bus! All profits go towards subsidising our failing bus network! Enjoy your direct trip while betting on who will get to the CBD first! Winners get $5 free go-card credit!

[Golliwog]

Thanks James, I must admit once I'm on the bus and have a seat (one particular 444 this typically doesn't happen until after Indro SC or BCC because of the number of students taking seats) I'm usually reading a book so I don't pay too much attention to what other buses are around outside. I think I have noted the 444 a few times keeping pace with one of the all stoppers along Coro Dr though I was never sure if that was us catching up to the one in front or them catching up to us.

But that's the best part, racing other buses to the City! My favourite time is off-peak during the weekdays due to service density. It's kind of like gambling, but with your time instead! Maybe in order to increase the farebox, BCC should host on-board betting competitions on board bus services running down duplicated corridors as to who will reach the last common corridor location first!

Pick a bus, any bus! All profits go towards subsidising our failing bus network! Enjoy your direct trip while betting on who will get to the CBD first! Winners get $5 free go-card credit!

Haha, but Game of Thrones has dragons!

[James]

Haha, but Game of Thrones has dragons!

The thrill of racing down Coronation Drive trying to beat other buses is second to none. It is even more exciting when you are trying to see how far you can go down Coronation Drive without stopping. Especially on Sundays and at night, I can make it all the way to the CBD without even seeing the bus doors open.

What I find even more exciting though, is the ancient game of strategy - Where do I wait for my 400 series bus service to Toowong?

Should I use KGSBS - even frequency, but a 412 may leave without me?
Maybe Adelaide Street Stop 16, where I face a walk over two streets vast mountains and valleys?
Could I choose Adelaide Street Stop 40, and try and wrestle with the hordes of crowds trying to access the other 100 bus routes going down Adelaide Street?
Or maybe even QSBS, and accept the fact I am going to spend 5 minutes faffing around South Brisbane as the bus attempts to get from the Cultural Centre to Coronation Drive?
Or I could embark on the greatest quest of all - climb the great Mt. Brisbane to get to Central station and catch a Richlands/Ipswich train?

^ It is things like these where I think I have too much fun catching PT sometimes...

[HappyTrainGuy]

Anyone know if E2085 or something is one of those new hybrids? It has a very weird back I must say.