Article: $320m buys 20 new passenger trains for SE Qld

[ozbob]

From the ABC News click here!

$320m buys 20 new passenger trains for SE Qld

$320m buys 20 new passenger trains for SE Qld

The State Government will build 20 new passenger trains to ease congestion in south-east Queensland.

Premier Anna Bligh was in Maryborough this morning to announce local company Downer EDI will build the new trains.

"These extra 20 trains means jobs for this region," she said.

Michael Bourke from Downer EDI says the order secures current staff numbers until the end of 2011.

"It's a great confidence boost, not only for us as a company but also for the area generally," he said.

The 20 new trains and associated stabling yards will cost more than $320 million.

[mufreight]

This announcement by the Premier is more than welcome but as EDI Downer has already proven to be somewhat deliquent with the deliveries and commissioning of new trains one must question as to if it would not have been more prudent to have these additional trains built by another manufacturer or by QR itself.
Another point is that when the Premier announces another 20 trains it is for an additional 20 three car sets when in fact the public perception of a train is a six car set which is how they are generally operated in service, this means in effect that the actual number of trains is effectively only ten trains not the inferred twenty.
Question also arises are these in addition to the 58 trains previously announced or are they actually part of that commitment?

[O_128]

1, why not tender the trains to other companies or overseas. if building them in china means cheaper and more trains then do it!
2.will they have a new look? are 3 doors being considered is better seating like like reversible seats being considered.and what about auto driving trains?what about suspension that can level itself at each station to be platform height.

[Derwan]

Question also arises are these in addition to the 58 trains previously announced or are they actually part of that commitment?

Both Government and Opposition are in election mode.  I dare say that this is NOT a new announcement, but a "look-at-what-we've-done-for-you" speech for the local Maryborough community.

We have received all sorts of numbers - including counts of carriages (which is simply to make the high number sound good).  24 trains were originally ordered - but this was increased by 20 to 44.  In the 2008/09 budget, an announcement was made that 12 new trains were in operation and that money had been set aside "to order 58 extra three-car trains units."  Bob received advice that this was in addition to the 44 trains already on order - making the total 102.  (I still have reservations about this figure.)

Now we see the figure of 20 trains - securing staff numbers at EDI "until the end of 2011".

I am going to go out on a limb here - and suggest that the 20 trains represent the increase of the original order from 24 to 44.  Money has been set aside for an additional 58 trains in the budget, but no order has been placed at this stage.  That will likely be done in 2011, allowing for a "look-at-what-we've-done-for-you" speech just before the 2012 election. 

[ozbob]

The 102 (three car sets) is correct.  44 + 58.  I think the 20 mentioned above are referring to the final 20 of the first order.

It is just pre-election posturing I guess ...

[mufreight]

Well the Premier who asserts that she never misleads the electorate so that being the case that should now mean that there will be a further 20 three car sets in addition to those previously announced which would in that case mean that there are now is a total of 122 three car train sets to come, or have the Captain Bligh spin doctors fudged the figures yet again to deceive the Queensland voters and commuters,
This would be a good question to ask your local member, the Transport Minister and the Premier for some clarification, after all there is an election comming.

[Arnz]

Well the Premier who asserts that she never misleads the electorate so that being the case that should now mean that there will be a further 20 three car sets in addition to those previously announced which would in that case mean that there are now is a total of 122 three car train sets to come, or have the Captain Bligh spin doctors fudged the figures yet again to deceive the Queensland voters and commuters,
This would be a good question to ask your local member, the Transport Minister and the Premier for some clarification, after all there is an election comming.

I can't recall the bolded bit.  Any links for this?

Apart from that, the 20 SMU order is just a repeat of the order announced earlier after the original 24x 3-car Order.   Just a "look what we done for you" posturing to voters.

[Dean Quick]

 People-people ,It might be political posturing but at least captain bligh is making a commitment!! Are we forgetting how we all constantly rant in these forums that the gov't isnt doing enough for the already stressed rail network and now an increase in new orders brings nothing but scepticism and negativity?? I welcome ANY NEW funding and encourage more. Meanwhile the so called opposition has announced.....................................is that crickets i can hear... 

[Mozz]

Dean, I agree that any spending on public transport is good, I believe the issue is that this information has already been announced at least once before maybe more. The reality is that the delivery of actual new trains is a struggle and has been a struggle since they were first announced back in 2005/6. Around mid last year it was announced that there would be the delivery of one per month which in itself has yet to happen.

[ozbob]

http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=325.msg1165#msg1165

and

http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=969.0 and http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=971.msg4235#msg4235

44 originally ordered and in last years budget statement a further 58.

No doubt, 102 x 3 car is the present commitment.   This is the often touted as the 70% increase in capacity.  (102/155 x 100 = approx 70% )  155 was the number of trains before the new orders.

RAIL Back On Track has always welcomed the announcements for more trains with positive statements.  This 20 train thing is not more new trains per se, and as Mozz points out, but just an ongoing commitment to building the trains previously announced.

[ozbob]

The Premier has just launched a web site -->  http://www.anna4qld.com.au/

I think the election is coming faster than the Gympielander!


This extract is from the transport policy part:

http://www.anna4qld.com.au/annas-plan_infrastructure-and-services.aspx

... Across the State, the Bligh Government is investing $7.7 billion over the next four years in transport and road infrastructure.

In the South East, rail commuters will benefit from 102 new trains on the Citytrain network, adding and extra 23,000 seats.  For Brisbane bus users, work is underway on a $444 million busway extension stretching from the Royal Brisbane Hospital to Kedron and the $3 Billion Eastern Busway from Buranda to Capalaba.

Motorists can now travel from Gympie right through to the NSW border without having to sit at a traffic light thanks to the completion of the Tugun Bypass. Construction is well underway on the $1.88 billion Gateway Bridge as it is stretches out across the Brisbane River.  And work on Australia?s biggest ever road project - the Airport Link - is also progressing well.  This $3.4 billion project will include a tunnel from Bowen Hills to Toombul which will then join up to the new $272 million Airport Flyover ...

[SteelPan]

$320m for 20 new passenger cars - man, that's starting to sound Xpensive .  I'd love to let a few outsiders see just what the costings are - I just get the feeling the Qld T'payer should be shopping around...it always pays to...

[mufreight]

Rumor has it that enquiries have been or are being made in respect of sourcing passenger rollingstock from overseas manufacturers, China and Korea have been mentioned.
One must question as to why QR could not recommision the currently unused sections of the Ipswich Workshops to set up a rollingstock assembly facility or contracts could not be given to Goninan's with their plant at Townsville.
Such a move would create employment within the state and effectively increase the rate of deliveries of high quality passenger rolling stock to QR.   

[O_128]

Rumor has it that enquiries have been or are being made in respect of sourcing passenger rollingstock from overseas manufacturers, China and Korea have been mentioned.
One must question as to why QR could not recommision the currently unused sections of the Ipswich Workshops to set up a rollingstock assembly facility or contracts could not be given to Goninan's with their plant at Townsville.
Such a move would create employment within the state and effectively increase the rate of deliveries of high quality passenger rolling stock to QR.   

good why not just find another country with narrow gauge and use there designs [are there any?] if these trains are built in china we could be getting20a month!

Ozbob could you please inquire about wifi on trains as i am expecting it on the next set of rolling stock!

[ozbob]

As far as know Mario the next news trains are SMUs, 271 is now at Mayne.

I think we do have the capability to build some more as mufreight suggests. 

[ozbob]

Now this article is interesting.  Does this mean that the 20 trains are actually the first tranche of the further 58?  The remaining 38 to go out to tender?     

Fraser Coast Chronicle 14th February 2009  Page 11

Anna rolls in to derail uncertainty 100 EDI jobs safeguarded

Anna rolls in to derail uncertainty 100 EDI jobs safeguarded
By STEPHEN O'GRADY

With confidence-building very much on her mind Anna Bligh unveiled her own stimulus package at Maryborough's Downer EDI Rail plant.

The government wants more trains, 20 of them, from Bowen Street at a cost of $327 million. It will extend the existing contract with Downer EDI beyond 2010 and safeguard 100 jobs. Ms Bligh revealed the current deal allowed the government to come directly to EDI, rather than put the job out to tender. A further 38 orders are to go out to tender and Downer EDI along with technology partner Bombardier has held its hand up for that work too.

"There will certainly be contracts into the future and EDI is offering a quality product," Ms Bligh said. "There is no doubt the global financial crisis is going to affect businesses in every sector." She said she wanted to "slowly rebuild confidence" throughout the state.

"With the economic climate as it is the company would have had to start thinking about cut-backs after 2010 and that affects confidence. Confidence is the x-factor.

"This is a good example of local solutions for local towns." Downer EDI will start to build the trains later this year following the successful delivery of the existing contract of 44 passenger trains.

"This win is a great reflection on the success of our join venture with technology partner Bombardier and in our long-term relationship with Queensland Rail,"

Downer EDI CEO Geoff Knox said. "We are pleased to be assisting in the successful delivery of the Queensland Government's transport policy."

[stephenk]

good why not just find another country with narrow gauge and use there designs [are there any?]

Japan is mainly narrow gauge, and there is no lack of Japanese train manufacturers. However the Yen is rather strong against the worthless Aussie Dollar at the moment.

[mufreight]

The object of the proposal is to have more passenger rollingstock built and placed into service, in the present economic conditions it would be preferable that they be constructed in this country and preferably in this state to provide employment.
Even making allowance for possible cost savings in construction and earlier delivery dates it would not be in the national interest to import rollingstock and as has been the experience in Melbourne imported train sets can have problems that require withdrawl from service for modification while if built localy any potential problems would be apparent as the first sets were placed into service and then can be rectified in the remaining sets while under construction.

[O_128]

Why use EDI if they cannot deliver.Use a Japanese train builder.Then we will get a modern train I am not saying that the new SMUs aren't modern but tech wise they are a little lame what about in train Wifi? What about What about Flat screen panels with weather and news etc.What about auto driving trains! where are they London has had them since the 60s

[ozbob]

http://www.downeredi.com.au/Default.aspx?aCateId=10899

Downer EDI announces new $200 Million Rail Contract for QR

Friday, 13 February 2009

Downer EDI Limited (Downer EDI) today announced that the Downer EDI Bombardier joint venture has received an order for an additional 20 three-car passenger trains from QR valued in excess of $200 million.
Downer EDI CEO, Geoff Knox said the contract follows on from previous QR orders late last year.

?This win is a great reflection on the success of our joint venture with our technology partner Bombardier and in our long-term relationship with QR to deliver reliable public transport for the people of Queensland.

?We are pleased to be assisting in the successful delivery of the Queensland Government?s transport policy and to the continued support of our products by the people of Queensland who rely on public transport to deliver them to and from home safely every day.

?We will commence manufacture of the new train cars later this year following the successful delivery and commissioning of our existing contract for the manufacture of 44 passenger trains for QR.

?The trains will be manufactured at our recently upgraded manufacturing facility in Maryborough, and we will be working with local suppliers to source components for the trains.

?In what has been a difficult time for many people in the region, we are pleased to be growing our workforce to cater for the growth in our Rail business,? he said.

Downer EDI?s Rail Division is well placed to further grow its market share in this strong sector.

[mufreight]

Seems from the statement by EDI Downer that the 20 train sets are not part of the current 44 train contract so one must question if they are the first phase of the 58 trains previously announced or additional to that 58 or is it the case that in the light of the economic morass the current government has managed to manouver this state into the government is now seeking to reduce its commitment already given for the 58 trains without admiting this to the electorate prior to the pending election.

[Dean Quick]

Any new sets should remain Australian built!! As mufreight correctly points out, imported trains and trams are unreliable and prone to breakdown and have to be pulled from service for extensive modifications. You only have to look at the recent debarcle in Melbourne with imported sets of trains and trams resulting in frustration for everybody. Our trains may seem a little expensive but at least they are reliable and the highly skilled members of QR maintainance are very familiar with them. Any imported sets would require weeks if not months of extensive training and familiarisation for all staff involved, adding unnecessary commissioning time and cost, not to mention the incompatibility between sets!!