Newcastle - Save our rail

[SurfRail]

I don't believe this site should be used to voice political persuasions...Lets get back to the facts..... it is Greiner who has called for the lines closure NOT Bob Carr.

[Gazza]

Any rail line closure is a disgrace!

Thats bull.
There seems to be this notion amongst some train fappers that any rail is good automatically and that any rail line, no matter how useless is justified on the basis that it "takes cars off the road" or is "helping global warming".

I think RTTRules posts have made the most sense.

Throwing money at keeping marginal railways open benefits very few people and takes money away from investments in rail that would actually have larger benefits.

And it is this attitude which bleeds rail dry.

You are aware that this site is all about retaining and rebuilding the rail network?

So that means I have to support all rail lines.
Well, time to re-open the Bethania branch and Waramuan then I guess 

[#Metro]

CUT!!

[Arnz]

While we're at it lets reopen the Brisbane Valley Line with its mixed alignment with 1890s curves in some places.. 

[colinw]

Back on topic about Newcastle please. This is not a discussion about irrelevant SEQ branch lines, and even the 1980s NSW politics is pushing the bounds.

[ghostryder]

All
I have just come back from two weeks in downtown Beirut oops i mean Newcastle. I think if harnessed right Mr Grieners words may have harnessed the complacent crowd. In the days that followed the comments the opinion and letters and feed back section were filled with much talk mostly about the line. Many are feed up of things being taken from the Hunter and sent or used by Sydney at the expense of Newcastle and Hunter residents. There are two Ferries in Newcastle over the years like the rail line to closed have been pushes to grab one and use it in Sydney. But it was argued that the second one is back up for when the other is in need of repairs or downtown.

Whilst in downtown Beirut i travelled by both train and on the roads in  peak and off peak times, the trains had a decent number of people on them during the week, and the roads were a mess in the peak periods (But then again where isnt.) The inner Bypass that has been mentioned well if or when they ever complete it, it might be useful. To date only two sections have been completed these beign diverging from the Old Pacific Highway near Bennetts Green bypasses both Gateshead and Charleston. it rejoins Charleston Road near park Ave Kotora South. The second section starts at Newcaslte road and ends at Sandgate Road. There are two missing links, these being the section between Park Ave which will require land resumption as there is no saved corridor to build in or through. The section Between Sandgate Road through to the Pacific Highway shows signs of work having been done but the bridge over the rail line has not progressed beyond the earth work approaches and supports for the deck. Reed Group who are contracted to do the work are at logger heads with the government over payments and have stopped work on these sites.
when or if that will be restarted is anyones guess. But the full effectiveness of the inner city bypass wont be achieved without the two missing pieces. Take the rail option out and the roads in use now would need extra lanes and changes which cost more to everyone involved.

In regards to what Colin has said  the push has been on since the arrival of Electrification in the mid 1980s, time and time again the push has come seems those wanting the line removed cant and wont accept the decisions made in the past to retain it and keep appealing it, will should the line be approved to be closed those that want it saved be given the same options? you better believe they wont. Seems this saga will continue until those who are pushing find someone that will say yes and give them what they want or laws and regulations are passed that its never to be removed. For Newcastle to survive it needs a dedicated unbiased plan to move forward and it does not have one. The earliest failure was in the recover of the Earthquake when a certain former Premier Mr Greiner dropped the ball. And its snowballed since then.

I sat at Adamstown station for a bit taking pictures of trains as they passed and there were two type operating there were the K sets see Below and the V sets. The K sets run between Gosford or Morriset and Newcastle and act as a feeder service, the sets i witnessed heading south were standing room only as they reached Adamstown 5 stations out from Newcastle. Granted they are two car sets but are double deck services.

K set
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sashmos_pics/7162988042/in/set-72157629646543624

V set
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sashmos_pics/7163373526/in/set-72157629646543624/

I think many of the locals are worried that if the developers get hold of the corridor that the views and access they have now to the waterfront will be reduced further. Look along the waterfront now and you will see buildings that have been built close to the waters edge like the crown plaza access may be there for foot traffic but the building like the rail line could be seen to be a barrier to the water front.

Sorry for the long winded response. Hope it helps.

Scott

[colinw]

Sorry for whinge, but this really pi$$es me off, surely there is better things for NSW to spend money on.

It gets my goat for exactly the same reason.  Surely there are better things to spend scare Government funding on, rather than blowing up to $1 billion on a hare brained scheme that will not improve people's mobility and will probably make things worse.

I don't understand the dynamic at work here. Just about everywhere else, people are crying out for improved rail services and new lines, but here in Newcastle we seem to have this long lived & vigorous campaign to get rid of a great asset they already have.

Just bizarre!

[colinw]

Interesting that Hamilton to Newcastle seems to be getting a signalling upgrade according to this article.

Newcastle Herald -> Cardiff railway station upgrade begins

12 Jun, 2012 04:00 AM

Work has begun on two new lifts and a new main station building as part of a $14million overhaul of Cardiff railway station.

Charlestown MP Andrew Cornwell welcomed the start of work on a program that had been many years in the planning.

Significant changes are also under way between Hamilton and Newcastle stations, with old tracks being removed and new computerised signalling equipment being installed.

CityRail acting chief operating officer Tony Eid said buses would replace trains between Newcastle and Broadmeadow until Friday.

Although Mr Eid said the changes were ''critical to ensure the safety and reliability'' of the system, Save Our Rail president Joan Dawson questioned removal of the old tracks.

One track was an ''engine road'' between the tracks into platforms one and two on Newcastle station.

The other was the ''Dark's siding'' that once went to the long-gone Dark's ice works but which was still used to ''stable'' trains overnight.

Ms Dawson feared that removing it might make it harder for Steamfest and other historic rail programs.

Newcastle MP Tim Owen welcomed the work and said the Newcastle line needed maintenance regardless of its long-term future.

[somebody]

Hmm, notice they are specifically stating that it doesn't mean that the line is to stay.

[achiruel]

I don't understand why Newcastle people are so eager to get rid of the railway line.  When I lived in Newcastle in the mid-late 90s I used the train regularly, it was a great service to have esp. considering it runs basically all night.  Has it gotten especially worse/pax have deserted it in droves since then?  People calling for its axing must be mad!

[ozbob]

From the Newcastle Herald click here!

Radical new rail design for Newcastle

Radical new rail design for Newcastle
BEN SMEE
10 Jul, 2012 04:00 AM

IT could be the best of both worlds: a solution to Newcastle's never-ending rail woes that keeps the heavy line but links the CBD and foreshore.

The concept was developed by Shaddock Smith architects for a recent exhibition and envisages crossing the rail line and Hunter Street with a pedestrian park.

Peter Shaddock said the idea was inspired by High Line park in New York, where gardens are built on a disused elevated rail line through the city.

In Newcastle's case, the gardens would be set above the working rail line and cascade into a foreshore plaza that Mr Shaddock said could be a focal point for the city centre.

''I was inspired a bit by the Suters report [that showed concept designs for Newcastle if the rail line was removed],'' Mr Shaddock said.

''I haven't seen a solution that keeps the rail line and makes it look good.''

He said the plan recreates the ''Dangar axis'', which is supposed to link the cathedral and the harbour.

Restaurants and bars at Queens Wharf are moved under the raised pedestrian park in the plan, and the infamous Queens Wharf tower removed.

The firm has decided to release its idea to stimulate debate about how to reinvent Newcastle.

[somebody]

Gone: our rail link with Newcastle to end at Wickham Save
By Belinda-Jane Davis
Nov. 13, 2012, 4 a.m.

The state government will cut the Newcastle rail line at Wickham and force commuters onto buses to finish their trip into the CBD.

Sources have revealed to the Mercury that the government's intention to make the announcement  in cabinet is imminent,  possibly as early as today.

The sources, who requested to remain anonymous, said they had it on good authority the decision to stop the line at Wickham, which has the strong backing of Newcastle MP Tim Owen and Newcastle Lord Mayor Jeff McCloy, had been made and the timing of the announcement was the only issue in doubt.

Maitland MP Robyn Parker said she was unaware of when further announcements would be made about the railway line when the Mercury contacted her yesterday.

"I have always held the view that Maitland people deserve efficient, streamlined public transport and options that deliver anything less should not be acceptable," she said.

Mr Owen did not respond to the Mercury's questions yesterday.

Cessnock MP Clayton Barr said the decision was "appalling, tragic, crazy" and "explosive" for Maitland people who used the service.

"This is about appeasing people who stand to make a profit in Newcastle," he said.

"The developers are going to get really rich from this because they have been making noise about Newcastle being dead – which isn't true – and the state government is going to pick up the tab at the tax­payers' expense.

"It's not going to work – it's small, small-minded thinking and will just cause problems."

Save Our Rail president Joan Dawson and her team have put up a strong fight against the removal of the line and vowed to fight the decision.

The group has challenged the government to conduct a 10-week trial of their plan to see if it works and provides customer ­satisfaction.

She said the government planned to offer free buses to transport commuters into the city but had not released a report of the cost and impacts of operating the buses.

This makes her think they have not thoroughly investigated the impacts of cutting the line.

She is also concerned the CBD's free buses will be taken to transport the rail commuters.

Mr Barr questioned where a bus terminal to pick up and drop off passengers would be located given the lack of space near the rail line.

He said there were many alternatives to cutting the line, which included dropping the rail line into the ground, looking at tunnels or building a fly-over.
See your ad here

"To rip out perfectly good infrastructure is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars," he said.

"When you minimise access and people have to get off trains and onto buses you reduce their willingness to participate.

"The Maitland to Newcastle route is already clogged – an extra 3000 to 4000 cars on the road is not going to help congestion."

http://www.maitlandmercury.com.au/story/968881/gone-our-rail-link-with-newcastle-to-end-at-wickham/?cs=171

[ozbob]

View Larger Map

[colinw]

Oh my goodness, those poor deluded fools. 

[SurfRail]

Greiner, that poisonous little sh%t, should be taken out and shot.

Stupidity and self-interest like this simply has to be illegal.

[somebody]

Cabinet still to decide rail fate Save
By MICHELLE HARRIS State Political Reporter
Nov. 13, 2012, 10:33 p.m.

    GETTING: A decision on the rail line is tipped before the end of the year.

STATE cabinet has not yet decided on the fate of the Newcastle rail line, the Minister for Planning and Infrastructure Brad Hazzard says.
See your ad here

"The government continues to consider the issues and listen to all sides of the debate," Mr Hazzard said yesterday.

The Newcastle Herald has reported previously about government deliberations on a proposal to remove the rail line to Wickham. A decision is tipped before the end of the year.

"The former Labor government stood by and watched the deterioration of the Newcastle CBD," Mr Hazzard said.

"The Coalition government has Newcastle on its radar and is determined to make sure Newcastle CBD is revitalised - but the government must get the decision right.

"We have only been in government for 18 months and we are already further advanced in the planning of Newcastle CBD than Labor ever was.

"It will take some time to address the issues, but we will listen to the community."

Newcastle lord mayor Jeff McCloy said yesterday the condition of Hunter Street was "an embarrassment to the people of Newcastle and the Hunter".

"If this decision is not made, the commercial activities of Hunter Street will remain the same for the next 25 years."
See your ad here

The removal of the line as part of a broader revitalisation strategy is favoured by most of the Hunter's Liberal MPs including Newcastle MP Tim Owen, Charlestown's Andrew Cornwell, Port Stephens MP Craig Baumann and Swansea's Garry Edwards.

They have the backing of Minister for the Hunter Mike Gallacher.

But Maitland MP Robyn Parker, and to a lesser extent Upper Hunter MP George Souris, are opposed to the plan on the grounds it would reduce transport services for their electorates.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1081676/cabinet-still-to-decide-rail-fate/?cs=305

[somebody]

Newcastle handles nearly as many people as Civic, Hamilton and Wickham combined.  It's also got the 4 platforms and is set up as a terminus already.

I just don't see how cutting it back can be a good thing, but I'll admit I'm not that familiar with Newcastle.

[achiruel]

It isn't a good thing.

Once oil shock comes and petrol hits $5/litre, Newcastle & Hunter Valley residents will be glad this line was left in place.

[Jonno]

I know half a dozen vibrant, active, safe downtowns that have rail lines through them either at grade or raised and in all cases the line brings much needed vibrancy and activity.  I can only assume the polies all ahve been shown a "Resort/Casino" development that will be built on the land vacated by the rail line...including lost of car parking!!!!!

I gues the NSW pollies have been talking to the "Car Do" Government here in QLD.

[somebody]

 Civic: 790 entries, 790 exits per weekday
Newcastle: 1460 entries, 1460 exits per weekday

[SurfRail]

I'm going to be brutal here - if you are going to close the line, why not just close the entire branch and get everything to run to Broadmeadow?  Cutting to Wickham only seems pointless.

Maybe some justification for electrifying to Telarah and running the V-sets through to Maitland.

[colinw]

Civic: 790 entries, 790 exits per weekday
Newcastle: 1460 entries, 1460 exits per weekday

Is that all?  For a centrally located station in a city the size of Newcastle, those passenger numbers are appalling!

[somebody]

Every 15 minutes Newcastle-Morrisset might help it a little.  But yes, you can see why there isn't a bigger backlash here.

[SurfRail]

Civic: 790 entries, 790 exits per weekday
Newcastle: 1460 entries, 1460 exits per weekday

Is that all?  For a centrally located station in a city the size of Newcastle, those passenger numbers are appalling!

Gold Coast Rapid Transit VISUM modelling for some perspective.

Newcastle Station barely rates as much as the medium patronage density stations, and gets blown out of the water by the CBD and interchange stations.
http://goldlinq.com.au/workspace/assets/uploads/resources/volume-7-technical-report-visum-modelling-results-4cd8984d.pdf

[somebody]

Newcastle is ranked #134
Civic #167

Zig Zag #297.  Perhaps there are a few which tie for last place - zero passengers.

[achiruel]

I'd be interested to know how many passengers/day Wondabyne gets.   Or most of the stations between Telarah and Dungog.

[somebody]

10 in, 10 out.

The data is freely available, look in appendix K: http://www.railcorp.info/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/8944/RailCorp_performance_2009-10_appendix.pdf

[colinw]

Those figures look odd to me. 10/10 seems to be the assumed patronage for a lot of the minor & regional stations, and many others have equally faked looking counts like 20/20.

Even so, I have to wonder what useful purpose the service beyond Telarah to Dungog actually serves, and why it isn't a minibus.

[somebody]

Pretty sure it's rounded to the nearest 10.  It's also even for entries and exits over the day, so that must be an assumption in the methodology.

Even so, I have to wonder what useful purpose the service beyond Telarah to Dungog actually serves, and why it isn't a minibus.

You can certainly say the same thing for Scone and Aberdeen.  Even the bit between Musswellbrook and Maitland could probably be a bus.

[achiruel]

If you look at Wondabyne, it shows 0 entries and exits for every time period, yet 10 for the entire day!

How does that work?

[somebody]

If you look at Wondabyne, it shows 0 entries and exits for every time period, yet 10 for the entire day!

How does that work?

I re-iterate, rounding to the nearest 10!

[somebody]

Here's a better tool: http://visual.bts.nsw.gov.au/barrier/

[colinw]

Newcastle Herald -> Bus use declines

MORE passengers have turned away from Newcastle's buses in yet another year of patronage decline for the service, as the state government contemplates transport changes in the inner city and region.

Newcastle MP Tim Owen and Charlestown MP Andrew Cornwell will raise the decline in bus use when they meet Transport minister Gladys Berejiklian this week.

In its 2011-12 annual report, the State Transit Authority, which operates Newcastle Buses and Ferries, put total boardings at 12.005 million passengers, down from 12.069 million boardings in 2010-11.

Of the total, bus passengers fell from 11.64 million in 2010-11 to 11.568 million, for a decline of 72,000 passengers.

Stockton's ferry recorded a slight increase in passengers, for a total of 437,000 boardings in 2011-12.

The bus use number includes an estimate of 1.56 million for the city's fare-free zone and 73,354 boardings for its free city loop shuttle bus.

A State Transit spokesman said the change to patronage overall represented a 0.5per cent decline, and could be due to a number of factors including wet weather.

Among the results was a 6.3per cent increase in passengers travelling route 235, via Wallsend to Newcastle, after the service was extended to Maryland.

Mr Owen said planning for transport improvements was at least in part unavoidably dependent on a government decision on the city's rail line and broader strategy for inner Newcastle.

''It's no secret we need more express bus routes,'' Mr Owen said.

Cessnock MP Clayton Barr said the government needed to pick up the pace with work on its Hunter transport plan. It is expected to release the final version of its state transport masterplan by the end of the year.

Ms Berejiklian said the  Hunter plan would then be developed and look ''at the unique transport challenges that face Newcastle and the wider Hunter region and identify the solutions that will serve  growing populations and expanding industries into the future''.

[#Metro]

ANOTHER state transport plan!

[petey3801]

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1185362/poll-video-train-line-to-be-cut-at-wickham/?cs=303

Sigh. What year is this? 1950?

[colinw]

I am lost for words. 

[colinw]

Once again, I am lost for words!

[colinw]

The sheer bastardry & stupidity of this is breathtaking..

Options include.

1. Do nothing - line has been operating fine as is, if a little under-utilised.
2. Build more pedestrian & road overpasses
3. Sink the line into a trench (and don't give me any "its near sea level" BS, so what?!!!)
4. Elevate the line.
5. Sell the airspace and build over the line.

So of course, NSW takes

6. Perform a half arsed truncation of the line, p%ss everyone off, and create a suboptimal mess.

I'd like to see the motivations and key players behind this schemozzle examined by ICAC. I think it could be as illuminating as Obeid.

[colinw]

Yep, that sounds about right.

[colinw]

Newcastle Herald -> McCloy says rail must go

Let's get this straight - Newcastle's property developer mayor, who owns property in the CBD near said rail line, says the rail line must go. Specifically, the mayor owns the former "Lucky Country" hotel, which is boarded up & closed pending re-development - a matter of public record.

Why is this farce being allowed to continue, and how is it not ending up as another ICAC investigation?

NEWCASTLE's ''dying'' centre could be revived in less than five years if the rail line and ''dingo fence'' separating the city and harbour were removed quickly to allow private enterprise to flourish, lord mayor Jeff McCloy told business leaders on Tuesday.

The keynote speaker at the Newcastle Business Club's first luncheon of 2013, Cr McCloy gave an upbeat appraisal of the city's progress but emphasised his ongoing concern about the ''serious'' financial woes faced by Newcastle City Council, including a backlog in infrastructure maintenance works.

''The other elephant in the room is that we've been running at a $20million-a-year deficit, and that is unsustainable,'' he said.

Cr McCloy said that early next month he would meet the independent financial advisory panel he established in December to discuss the council's overall finances because ''if we are not careful we could have an administrator in the blasted place''.

In a brief report card on the city's progress, Cr McCloy said that if the state government's urban renewal strategy was started, alongside the council's plans to revitalise Hunter Street via angle parking, seating and tree-planting, the city would shine.

He believed there was a new buzz in town thanks to full coffee shops in Hunter and Darby streets, but said the rail line was still a barrier.